Would you hire an ex-felon?

[DawnM]

I assume it is a felony anyway.   A plumber has come recommended to us.  I found out that he has had several prior convictions for credit card fraud and larceny.   Those were the two financial convictions.   The others were drug paraphernalia, and something else that was minor (might have been a traffic violation.)

The convictions are all over 10 years old and it doesn't look like he has had anything since.   His wife's FB page shows their kids, scripture verses, church activities, and nothing even remotely inappropriate.   

I guess I am not concerned about his work as he did come recommended, but I am worried about the money aspect of it.   Will he take our money and run?   Most of them want half down up front.....and I understand that, but do I tell him I looked up his criminal records and we will be paying as we go?

I am all for 2nd chances, but I don't want to get burned in the process.

Thoughts?

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, DawnM said:

I assume it is a felony anyway.   A plumber has come recommended to us.  I found out that he has had several prior convictions for credit card fraud and larceny.   Those were the two financial convictions.   The others were drug paraphernalia, and something else that was minor (might have been a traffic violation.)

The convictions are all over 10 years old and it doesn't look like he has had anything since.   His wife's FB page shows their kids, scripture verses, church activities, and nothing even remotely inappropriate.   

I guess I am not concerned about his work as he did come recommended, but I am worried about the money aspect of it.   Will he take our money and run?   Most of them want half down up front.....and I understand that, but do I tell him I looked up his criminal records and we will be paying as we go?

I am all for 2nd chances, but I don't want to get burned in the process.

Thoughts?

Ten years ago and nothing since?  I probably would not worry about it.  Did you look on line for local reviews of him?  If he is out there cheating people currently you can bet people will be talking about it.

[DawnM]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Ten years ago and nothing since?  I probably would not worry about it.  Did you look on line for local reviews of him?  If he is out there cheating people currently you can bet people will be talking about it.

Yeah, good point.   He does have good reviews overall.   He was working for a company up until recently when he started his own business and I think he is still working on building up more business so that made me think he may do a great job to get good reviews from us.

Would you do anything with paying him differently?  Like in increments vs. upfront?

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Yeah, good point.   He does have good reviews overall.   He was working for a company up until recently when he started his own business and I think he is still working on building up more business so that made me think he may do a great job to get good reviews from us.

Would you do anything with paying him differently?  Like in increments vs. upfront?

If he just started his own business there is a good chance he needs materials money up front at least.  Plumbers unfortunately get burned often by customers who won't pay after the job is done.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

I’d hire him with good personal references and if he could be paid in cash. 

What do you mean if he could be paid in cash?   

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

It is a good practice to never pay a subcontractor for the whole job upfront. We’ve had friends building homes to learn this the hard way! Work out a payment plan, with a little more up front to cover supply costs. 

No, we would never pay upfront for all of it, but several we have gotten quotes from asked for 1/2 up front.

[DawnM]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

I’d hire him with good personal references and if he could be paid in cash. 

That's interesting.   Another person told me to never pay in cash and only use a CC so you can dispute it if they don't do the work.

[Katy]

I’d pay with a credit card to dispute it too.

[klmama]

I'd use a credit card, too.  

[MooCow]

I would have no problem hiring him. Ten years is a long time. I’d pay cash or put it on a credit card that he could then use.  I’m referring to the one you buy at the grocer and can reload.

[Drama Llama]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

What do you mean if he could be paid in cash?   

I assume she means if she didn't have to give him her credit card number. 

[Scarlett]

16 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I assume she means if she didn't have to give him her credit card number. 

Oh I see.  Well, credit card numbers are pretty much out there for the thieves that want to steal them.  

[ktgrok]

I think if he hasn't stolen any credit cards in 10 years, he is unlikely to start with you. And if he'd stolen the numbers of the people who referred him, they wouldn't ahve referred him. 

[SKL]

I've never paid a plumber up front.

I might not pay him via credit card ....

[Guest]

Chances are good he doesn’t have a credit merchant account anyway. 

[BusyMom5]

10 years ago and came recommended?  Yes, and I'd pay half upfront and purchase my own materials if possible. 

[Terabith]

My husband works for a guy who apparently ran a huge pot ring, I guess?  It was huge, and he managed it all.....growing, selling, transporting.  It was a huge, elaborate business, and the DEA said it was the best pot they'd ever encountered.  Honestly, it wound up being a point in his favor for the hospital to hire him, because they were like anyone who can manage a business that well is someone they want on their team.  

[Farrar]

Another vote that this would be fine. I mean, I wouldn't even question it for a day job. For something that sounds like it might take a few days for someone with convictions from years ago who has great reviews and a personal reference? Sure. If I was hiring him for a proper long term job, I guess I'd want to think about it a little more, but I'd still be open.

[DawnM]

9 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Another vote that this would be fine. I mean, I wouldn't even question it for a day job. For something that sounds like it might take a few days for someone with convictions from years ago who has great reviews and a personal reference? Sure. If I was hiring him for a proper long term job, I guess I'd want to think about it a little more, but I'd still be open.

 

definitely more than a day job.   We are having a bathroom put in where there isn't one.

[Bootsie]

If he had references, I would probably hire him.  First, I believe in second chances.  Second, it doesn't sound as if you know the details of what happened before.  He could have been involved with a business partner that he got involved in something before he realized or some other explanation.  

[Scarlett]

The Other thing is......hiring someone to work on our home is always a risk of some sort. We literally have no idea if they are a thief who has never got got or honest Abe.  
 

Speaking of which I had a weird encounter with a guy over the weekend.  We had an old wall oven to get rid of.  Dh said he was going to load it up and take it to his works dumpster.  I said, hey I saw a local guy who says he picks up old appliances for scrap.  He said ok try that.  So at 9 Sat morning I contact this guy.  He says be right there.  6 hours later he texts me that he came to my address and an older gentleman said ?? (That was never clear). He wanted me to meet him 2 blocks away.  SMH.  I said no.  In about an hour he shows up.  In a Pontiac. I sent dss out to help the guy load it....it wouldn’t fit.  He says he will come back soon.  The next morning I hear from him again.....asking for gas money to come get it.  🤦🏻‍♀️ Dh said sure give him $10.  Immediately the guy sends me a cash app request.  Um, no, you get $10 when you get here and load it.  
 

Then when he got here he asks Dh if we had any work for him.  Dh said, we will keep your number in case we do.  A few days later he texts asking for more work.

The entire thing was sooooo exhausting.  

[Ottakee]

I would if reviews are good.

 

I have a cousin getting out a prison.  This conviction sounds much worse than reality.....he was in the car but didn't commit the crime...but was charged as he was with the people.  That was when he was a young, dumb 19 year old kid.  He is now an adult and has never been in trouble since or had any prison disciplinary action.

He wants a chance and is willing to work for it.

[mommyoffive]

Do you guys all check the backgrounds of everyone working in your home?  I have never ever done that.  Maybe I am making some huge adult mistake. 

The credit card stuff bugs me a lot.  I guess if he hasn't done it in 10 years and has good reviews?   

[Excelsior! Academy]

While I do believe people need second chances and to provide for their families, I also have close family members who are convicted felons.  I would not hire them. In the case of my relatives they have been convicted on just a fraction of the crimes that they have committed and served just a fraction of the given sentences.  It's shocking, actually, how little time they've served. The fact that the person you are considering hiring has multiple convictions is concerning.  People can change, but they can also get better at not being caught.  I hope for his and his wife's sake he has changed.  If you do decide to hire him I would stay in the vicinity while he works and trust but verify everything.  A crime's sentence can be completed, but that does not mean that the long lasting consequences of one's choices disappear.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Excelsior! Academy

[Scarlett]

46 minutes ago, Excelsior! Academy said:

While I do believe people need second chances and to provide for their families, I also have close family members who are convicted felons.  I would not hire them. In the case of my relatives they have been convicted on just a fraction of the crimes that they have committed and served just a fraction of the given sentences.  It's shocking, actually, how little time they've served. The fact that the person you are considering hiring has multiple convictions is concerning.  People can change, but they can also get better at not being caught.  I hope for his and his wife's sake he has changed.  If you do decide to hire him I would stay in the vicinity while he works and trust but verify everything.  A crime's sentence can be completed, but that does not mean that the long lasting consequences of one's choices disappear.

It is all over the map though.  People commit many crimes and never get caught, get caught up in one crime ( which can be several charges,) and get caught.... a record or lack there of is not proof of much to me.   

[MercyA]

If he has good references and good reviews, sure, I'd hire him. 

My dad managed a grocery store for most of his life. He hired an ex-con (convicted for theft, I believe) and he was one of the best employees he ever had (and still works there). They've had a lot of employees try to steal from them, but not the ex-con. 😉  He is always on time, works extra shifts, doesn't complain, super sweet. I think some people are really thankful for a second chance. 

That said, I'm not comfortable with anyone, criminal record or not, working in my home when I am not there. So I'd have someone home on those days.

[Tanaqui]

Look, in my experience, just getting a contractor to come out and give us an estimate is a win, to say nothing of them coming back again to do the job! If he shows up and does the work, I'm not going to worry about his past history of what sounds like non-violent crime.

[SKL]

One of my early employers used to have an arrangement to hire inmates to work in the warehouse.  There were a few weird moments, but honestly, we had more theft from regular employees.

Add me to the group who does not do background checks on people I hire for occasional jobs.

[Anne]

When we recently had some remodeling work, I asked for references from the contractor.  And I called them.   I would ask for references and check them.  If the references check out, I’d go ahead and hire him.  I paid my contractors by check.  

Anne  

[TravelingChris]

I have a very unpleasant experience with an excon that I was going to hire to do some minor repairs.  She was a former druggie and was recommended by people st my church ( she is a nember).  Anyway, at a church women's retreat, at the first session, she was at the same table as me. It was time for me to take some medicine, and I proceeded to take it and mark it down on my medication list. She proceeded to grab my list, loudly pronounce how all medical issues are due to taking drugs, and laughing loudly.  Then she lied about the condition of my house. Other church members later came up to me and told me that her brain has been damaged by drug use but I don't care. Not only will I never hire her, if anyone asks I will say that she isn't respectful of her clients.

But when I hire electricians, plumbers, chimney sweepers, etc, etc.  I don't ask about criminal records znc don't look them up either.

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Do you guys all check the backgrounds of everyone working in your home?  I have never ever done that.  Maybe I am making some huge adult mistake. 

The credit card stuff bugs me a lot.  I guess if he hasn't done it in 10 years and has good reviews?   

 

No, I have never done it before.   I currently have a subscription to a background check service due to some issues with something entirely different and since I do, I decided to check, but no, I wouldn't normally check.

[Pawz4me]

It's never occurred to us to do a criminal check on anyone we've hired to do a particular job. I wouldn't be surprised if the man who owns the lawn service we've hired has some sort of criminal background. I haven't talked to him a lot, but DH has and said he vaguely referenced having a rough past but having straightened himself out. His company comes highly recommended on our neighborhood FB page, and we've had him do several outside jobs already (repairing our fence and storage barn, tearing up and reseeding our grass, etc.). They've usually shown up when they said they would, and one time when they were delayed he texted to let us know. He came back promptly and fixed a problem with one of the repairs he did. That's about the best you can hope for nowadays, so we'd stick with him even if we found out he's a convicted felon. But . .  he's doing outside work. So that's a bit different than having someone inside the house. We pay by check. He doesn't accept CC.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Pawz4me

[Carrie12345]

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

The Other thing is......hiring someone to work on our home is always a risk of some sort. We literally have no idea if they are a thief who has never got got or honest Abe.  

That’s my stance. At least in this case you know what one issue might be, and it’s a pretty safe bet, given the more recent history, that it won’t happen again.

I’m very much for gainful employment for people who’ve served their time. They served their time, and too many continue to face a different kind of life sentence afterward. That doesn’t mean I don’t get nervous, particularly if I don’t know what the offense was. Prison isn’t exactly known for successful rehabilitation.  But any shmoe could be a criminal who hasn’t yet been caught.

With enough information, I’m much more inclined to work with someone with a history of financial abuse than, say, physical abuse!

[skimomma]

10 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

Look, in my experience, just getting a contractor to come out and give us an estimate is a win, to say nothing of them coming back again to do the job! If he shows up and does the work, I'm not going to worry about his past history of what sounds like non-violent crime.

 

No kidding!  We have a huge shortage of contractors.  I have to turn in every favor I have just to get estimates for crucial stuff.  I have given up on any non-essential projects.  I am guessing there is not a local crew here that does not include ex-cons.  If I were nervous, I would take out a CC just for this job and adjust the spending limit to cover the exact charges then lower the limit to some negligible amount like $100 until you need to use it again or decide to close it.  You can usually do this online.

[katilac]

If he has a wife and kids and has been in business a while, he is unlikely to take your money and run. That's usually predators who swoop down after a natural disaster and collect multiple deposits very quickly. 

Now, could he take your money and delay endlessly? Yes, but so could a plumber with no convictions. If worst comes to worst, you remind him that it's fraud and that you can and will go to the cops/courts. 

I think his FB page is irrelevant in both directions - scripture verses don't mean a person is honest or even a true believer, and inappropriate content doesn't mean a person isn't a good plumber. 

I would request recent references and check them. And of course check his license. With a ten-year clean record, I'd judge him as I would any other contractor. 

[Acadie]

Given what you've posted, I'd probably check references and hire him, but it would depend on the vibe I got meeting him in person.

I also lock our file cabinet when anyone is working in our house (except the plumber and handyman we've known forever), and I'd put my purse out of sight, rather than hanging on the closet doorknob.

 

[vonfirmath]

15 hours ago, Farrar said:

Another vote that this would be fine. I mean, I wouldn't even question it for a day job. For something that sounds like it might take a few days for someone with convictions from years ago who has great reviews and a personal reference? Sure. If I was hiring him for a proper long term job, I guess I'd want to think about it a little more, but I'd still be open.

Our Plumbing/HVAC company would not hesitate to hire someone, even with a felony, where the record was 10 years ago.  Yes, there would be a few jobs we could not send him on. But that's a long time to live clean and we're short on good plumbers.

 

[DawnM]

26 minutes ago, katilac said:

If he has a wife and kids and has been in business a while, he is unlikely to take your money and run. That's usually predators who swoop down after a natural disaster and collect multiple deposits very quickly. 

Now, could he take your money and delay endlessly? Yes, but so could a plumber with no convictions. If worst comes to worst, you remind him that it's fraud and that you can and will go to the cops/courts. 

I think his FB page is irrelevant in both directions - scripture verses don't mean a person is honest or even a true believer, and inappropriate content doesn't mean a person isn't a good plumber. 

I am not saying they are def. honest, I am just saying that his wife is posting things that lead me to believe the family might be trying to live decent lives.

I don't want someone who posts demoralizing things about women or explicitly sexual things in my house.   If their speech is vulgar I assume that is their way of talking and I don't want it while they are working.  I don't care if they are great plumbers at that point.

26 minutes ago, katilac said:

I would request recent references and check them. And of course check his license. With a ten-year clean record, I'd judge him as I would any other contractor. 

 

[Lecka]

Yes, I would hire this person.  I would not feel concern about something from 10 years ago.  
 

 

[Lecka]

It is up to you, you can hire whoever you want.  That is the bottom line.  If you want to pick a different plumber that is fine.  
 

I know a lot of ex-felons I have no problem with whatsoever.  One of my husband’s good friends spent almost 2 years in prison, and guess what — he decided he didn’t want to ever go back to prison in his entire life. 
 

I have never had an issue with vulgar language in my hearing, but I think ask about that and/or say that would be your expectation.

 

[DawnM]

14 minutes ago, Lecka said:

It is up to you, you can hire whoever you want.  That is the bottom line.  If you want to pick a different plumber that is fine.  
 

I know a lot of ex-felons I have no problem with whatsoever.  One of my husband’s good friends spent almost 2 years in prison, and guess what — he decided he didn’t want to ever go back to prison in his entire life. 
 

I have never had an issue with vulgar language in my hearing, but I think ask about that and/or say that would be your expectation.

 

To me, vulgar is talking about sexually explicit, objectifying women's anatomy, wearing T-shirts that say things about sexual acts, etc.....is that what you are talking about?   It bothers me....a lot.   

[Lecka]

Yes, I have never had that issue with workers in my home.  I am always home when work is being done, too.  
 

I have been out of hearing and can’t say what was said then, but it has never been an issue.

 

What has been common for me is they come and ask if they can listen to the radio, and then they have the radio on loud enough to hear over their loud banging or equipment.  
 

That is what I have had with multi-day work.  
 

I have also had quite a few where they speak Spanish among themselves and I don’t know what they are saying.  
 

 

[Lecka]

Honestly they seem not to really chat as much as listen to music, because they are working and it is loud.  Maybe I have had particularly loud work done, lol. 
 

I have been asked if a particular radio station was okay with me.

 

 

[Lecka]

If you have had this come up — I think bring it up.  
 

I would not want that either.  

[Lecka]

I think you could also ask about this if you call references. 

[Lecka]

Something that has irritated me is having to pick up cigarette butts at the bottom of my driveway.  But it is not a very big deal to me, either.  

 

[Lecka]

I would also have more concern over if they sweep up and put things away, or leave things out and wait to sweep up.  

That is a difference I have seen.  

[Lecka]

And my husband is more concerned about being robbed.  We have never been robbed, but that is what he worries about. 

[katilac]

13 hours ago, DawnM said:

To me, vulgar is talking about sexually explicit, objectifying women's anatomy, wearing T-shirts that say things about sexual acts, etc.....is that what you are talking about?   It bothers me....a lot.   

Unless it was one over-the-top post after another, I wouldn't dismiss a plumber or such based on their personal Facebook. Plenty of people do speak in what others would consider a sexually explicit way in their personal lives, without it being in a derogatory way. I wouldn't have any expectation that they would come to repair my faucet and, what? Greet me in a sexually explicit manner? Tell me sexually explicit jokes? That isn't something I would be worried about. If it happened, I would deal with it (by telling him to stop). 

It would never occur to me to get a quote from a plumber and then look up his Facebook page or his wife's Facebook page. That's getting a bit personal for a business transaction. Check his references, check his insurance and license. Regarding the felony, I think you look at all the info and either hire him or not. Telling him you found out he did time a decade ago and so you're going to pay him piecemeal, against standard business practices, is not cool. If you cannot bring yourself to trust him enough to treat him in the expected way, don't hire him. He's not on a day pass from the halfway house with an ankle bracelet, this was over ten years ago. You can either get past it or you can't. And I'm not saying you're some terrible person if you can't, but I am saying you need to treat him with dignity if you hire him. 

 

 

[katilac]

I also wanted to mention that restaurants are known for having a lot of workers with priors, and we are trusting them with both our food and our credit card, lol. 

On 3/16/2021 at 4:50 PM, SKL said:

I've never paid a plumber up front.

Generally not for quick repairs, but for big jobs and definitely for renos - they are not fronting you the money to buy new vanity, tub, and so forth. 

On 3/16/2021 at 9:07 PM, Tanaqui said:

Look, in my experience, just getting a contractor to come out and give us an estimate is a win, to say nothing of them coming back again to do the job! If he shows up and does the work, I'm not going to worry about his past history of what sounds like non-violent crime.

At this point, maybe even a little violent crime. Like it wasn't aggravated assault, go ahead and replace my faucets . . .