Does a high school course have to have a written component?

[EKT]

I'm not talking about the main subjects here (English, science, etc.)! I'm talking about electives and things likely to be half-credit courses. 

For example: If I am planning a high school health class for my student, can reading and discussion suffice to issue a credit, so long as the reading and discussion meet the hourly requirements? (In other words, if I wanted the health class to focus on sex education, can we simply read and discuss books in that genre and call it good? Or do I need to require testing or a written component of some sort for the credit to be legitimate? How did you approach this?) Thus far, we've always covered health through reading and discussion (and sometimes videos), and I'm just curious if that same (effective!) approach generally cuts it at the high school level. 

Another example might be personal finance. Can we just read and discuss books (say, Dave Ramsey or Suze Orman stuff) and call it good? 

It's important to me that my children be educated in these areas, but our core subjects will already be extremely writing-heavy. I don't want to add busywork unnecessarily! I would love to hear about any courses you've given credit for that did not involve tests or writing. Thanks!

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by EKT
typo

[regentrude]

I see absolutely no reason why a course like this should need a written component.
I didn't make my kids write anything for health. I didn't make them create any "output" in this type of course. I have given a grade of "P" for participation in all non-core subjects.

[Lori D.]

"Output" can look like many things, or a combo of things:
- discussion only
- quizzes/tests
- written assignments
- graphic/visual project, such as a poster
- oral presentation, with or without a slide show
- hands-on/physical project or completed "item"
- time-based "output" of hours poured into practice, volunteering, assisting, teaching, leading, guiding, etc.
- participation in a possible culminating event (ex.: recital, art show, sports competition, history recreation, presentation, etc.)

[Lori D.]

3 minutes ago, regentrude said:

... I have given a grade of "P" for participation in all non-core subjects.

The only reason I differ here, is that some colleges do not let a "P" stand as is on the transcript, and they will assign a grade FOR you -- they go with a "C", assuming the student did average work. It would be a shame to have an elective or a box-checking course drag down the cumulative GPA because of assigning a "P" rather than an "A" for having fulfilled all the requirements.

[Clemsondana]

For Personal Finance, my student wrote the math parts when they did the interest calculations for LIfe of Fred.  For the other material, we just discussed it.  At the end of the semester, I had them write a short paper (1-2 pages) about what they had learned.  We used 3 books, and they wrote about how one had focused on the 'numbers' part of saving, the second had focused on the spiritual aspect of giving, and the 3rd talked about how to choose areas in which to start businesses or invest, which is how one makes money to do the saving and giving.  In our Government class, kid wrote maybe 5-6 papers , 1/2 - 1 page each, over the course of the semester where they summarized our discussions.  These were things that they could dash off in 30 minutes-1 hr at the most.  I don't think that they are required, but it was interesting to see what kid came up with.  Our Bible credit is also mostly discussion (we're required to do 1/2 credit/yr for our umbrella).  We usually discuss books 1 chapter at a time.  After working through a couple of challenging C.S Lewis books with discussion only, we're ending the year with Narnia as allegory.  For that, kid is just reading on their own and writing something short after each book.  If we were doing a book that we covered more slowly there would be no writing - I'm expecting the credits for the next several years to be writing-free, or maybe have one 'The most interesting thing I learned' essay at the end of the year.  

[Garga]

When I was writing high school course descriptions, I did like to have a section called “evaluation” for each course. The evaluation section was where I quickly described how I knew the student was learning, aka how I graded them. A number of courses didn’t have a writing component.  

Here are some examples of what I mean:

For a math class:

Evaluation: Daily homework assignments; completion of five quizzes and two written tests. 

For your health class: 

Evaluation: Class discussion based on course reading materials.

For an English class:

Evaluation: Completion of six essays and one creative writing project.

[Roadrunner]

Our high school has classes where you just show up and discuss. Zero output requirement. Philosophy class is one of them. 

[EKT]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

For Personal Finance, my student wrote the math parts when they did the interest calculations for LIfe of Fred.  For the other material, we just discussed it.  At the end of the semester, I had them write a short paper (1-2 pages) about what they had learned.  We used 3 books, and they wrote about how one had focused on the 'numbers' part of saving, the second had focused on the spiritual aspect of giving, and the 3rd talked about how to choose areas in which to start businesses or invest, which is how one makes money to do the saving and giving.  In our Government class, kid wrote maybe 5-6 papers , 1/2 - 1 page each, over the course of the semester where they summarized our discussions.  These were things that they could dash off in 30 minutes-1 hr at the most.  I don't think that they are required, but it was interesting to see what kid came up with.  Our Bible credit is also mostly discussion (we're required to do 1/2 credit/yr for our umbrella).  We usually discuss books 1 chapter at a time.  After working through a couple of challenging C.S Lewis books with discussion only, we're ending the year with Narnia as allegory.  For that, kid is just reading on their own and writing something short after each book.  If we were doing a book that we covered more slowly there would be no writing - I'm expecting the credits for the next several years to be writing-free, or maybe have one 'The most interesting thing I learned' essay at the end of the year.  

I like this! Thanks for this suggestion. 

[EKT]

3 hours ago, Lori D. said:

"Output" can look like many things, or a combo of things:
- discussion only
- quizzes/tests
- written assignments
- graphic/visual project, such as a poster
- oral presentation, with or without a slide show
- hands-on/physical project or completed "item"
- time-based "output" of hours poured into practice, volunteering, assisting, teaching, leading, guiding, etc.
- participation in a possible culminating event (ex.: recital, art show, sports competition, history recreation, presentation, etc.)

This is a helpful list! Thank you!

[lewelma]

We did all four of my older boy's social science classes as no-output/minimal output. I was very clear in each course description what was required, and no school made any comment. I worked hard to make sure the course description showed off what my son learned even without output. The key is to see, really see, what your child is actually learning and write about that in the course descriptions. They may never read them, but my guess is that they read one in an area they are concerned about. We had no outside evidence for any SS course, so I figured they skimmed that section.

So for example, for Economics, we sat on the sofa together and took turns reading the book out loud, discussing it, and looking up anything we didn't understand. He also read the Economist cover to cover every week, which I split up between this course and his Contemporary World Problems course. So he read and discussed. That's it. But was it? This is what I wrote for Economics:

Macroeconomics and Inequality. (0.5 credits)
Using the Piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century, this course evaluated and analyzed the history, theory, and implications of inequality in the world. The focus was on understanding how historical data can aid in understanding past and present trends in multiple countries. The student learned to track and reconstruct complex arguments and evaluate evidence such as facts, statistics, examples, and expert opinions. Khan Academy lectures were used as needed to provide the necessary background on economic growth, the business cycle, the global economy, unemployment, inflation, and economic policy. The Economist was used to understand macroeconomics in the context of current events and across many different economic and political systems. The course included reading assignments and participation in discussions.
Textbook: Piketty. Capital in the Twenty-First Century. 2014
Macroeconomics lectures from Khan Academy
The Economist. Weekly magazine.

Notice that I am focusing on him increasing his reading capability.  Piketty's argument is incredibly complex and long and full of data, so I focused in the course description on him learning how to 'track complex arguments." Piketty's book also really focuses on data and what it means and how you can and can't use it, so notice that is also in the description.

Don't short change your kid. Learning does not equate to output. And I don't consider this some sort of cheat either.  My kid won the humanities/social science scholarship his sophomore year in university because this approach to highschool study was incredibly effective and prepared him well. If you want me to post my other 3 social science courses, I'm happy to do so. 

 

[EKT]

11 hours ago, lewelma said:

We did all four of my older boy's social science classes as no-output/minimal output. I was very clear in each course description what was required, and no school made any comment. I worked hard to make sure the course description showed off what my son learned even without output. The key is to see, really see, what your child is actually learning and write about that in the course descriptions. They may never read them, but my guess is that they read one in an area they are concerned about. We had no outside evidence for any SS course, so I figured they skimmed that section.

So for example, for Economics, we sat on the sofa together and took turns reading the book out loud, discussing it, and looking up anything we didn't understand. He also read the Economist cover to cover every week, which I split up between this course and his Contemporary World Problems course. So he read and discussed. That's it. But was it? This is what I wrote for Economics:

Macroeconomics and Inequality. (0.5 credits)
Using the Piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century, this course evaluated and analyzed the history, theory, and implications of inequality in the world. The focus was on understanding how historical data can aid in understanding past and present trends in multiple countries. The student learned to track and reconstruct complex arguments and evaluate evidence such as facts, statistics, examples, and expert opinions. Khan Academy lectures were used as needed to provide the necessary background on economic growth, the business cycle, the global economy, unemployment, inflation, and economic policy. The Economist was used to understand macroeconomics in the context of current events and across many different economic and political systems. The course included reading assignments and participation in discussions.
Textbook: Piketty. Capital in the Twenty-First Century. 2014
Macroeconomics lectures from Khan Academy
The Economist. Weekly magazine.

Notice that I am focusing on him increasing his reading capability.  Piketty's argument is incredibly complex and long and full of data, so I focused in the course description on him learning how to 'track complex arguments." Piketty's book also really focuses on data and what it means and how you can and can't use it, so notice that is also in the description.

Don't short change your kid. Learning does not equate to output. And I don't consider this some sort of cheat either.  My kid won the humanities/social science scholarship his sophomore year in university because this approach to highschool study was incredibly effective and prepared him well. If you want me to post my other 3 social science courses, I'm happy to do so. 

 

This is helpful! Thank you for sharing. And yes, I'd love to read your other course descriptions, if you don't mind posting them. Thank you!

[RootAnn]

For Health, I had my kids track their meals with nutrition info (on paper or in an app) and compare it to various calculations they had come up with from their reading. They didn't do this the entire course length, but for a period of time. I felt it was worthwhile for them to know how to do this activity& see where they were at with regard to certain ranges in their text or what they'd found on the internet. I did not make them write a paper on it afterwards. For those kids who don't already help with planning or meal prep, that's another "output" idea.

For personal finance, developing a budget, tracking spending, shopping for groceries (or clothing) on a budget, etc are all non-busy-work outputs, IMO.

For my kids' fitness part of a Health, Nutrition, & Fitness class, the output was their fitness activities. They did certain fitness tracking activities at the beginning & then at the end to see if they improved at all. We used something from the Great Courses for that part of the credit.

For one kid's fine arts credit, she went to musicals, concerts, plays, a ballet, etc. Our only output was discussion on the way there & the way home. For that credit, I focused on the "input" as my goal was to broaden her horizons. She didn't enjoy the professional piano concert, but to her surprise, she did like the orchestra I made her attend. It would be kinda hard not to enjoy the one I took her to; it was the Boston Pops. ;)

[lewelma]

Ok, reading through my course description document.  These are the ones with no/minimal output, I just copied in an example when they were all about the same. So 13 courses with minimal to no output, which was very clearly labeled compared to the other courses which had external national exams or large research papers or clearly tons of writing. (I don't do homeschool tests) 

All four mandarin classes

Mandarin 3. (private tutor, 1 credit)
This course studied more complex narratives while incorporating insights into Chinese history
and culture. The third year emphasized expanding vocabulary, improving understanding of
grammar and structure, and increasing confidence with writing short paragraphs. The goal was
to recognize 800 characters by the end of the course. The course was taught almost exclusively
in Chinese by a private tutor.
Textbooks: Xiaoqi. Boya Chinese 2. Peking University Press. 2004.
Yao et al. Fundamental Written Chinese. 2009.

All his self-studied math classes

He just read the textbooks and did whatever problems he wanted to do.  He was so motivated, that I did not do anything except keep getting him new notebooks when the old one was full. I had 4 self-studied math classes on his transcript that I labeled as university equivalent. 

Real Analysis. (1 credit)
This university-level course covered the fundamentals of mathematical analysis using the
classic text by Rudin. Topics included basic topology, numerical sequences and series,
continuity, differentiation, the Riemann-Stieltjes Integral, sequences and series of functions, and
functions of several variables.
Textbook: Rudin. Principles of Mathematical Analysis. 1976.
OpenCourseware: Real Analysis. MIT.

All his social science classes had minimal or no output. 

I was very worried about the US History class because my dh was reading mostly middle school books so that my younger could be involved. But once again, I worked hard to realize what we had actually done, and wrote about that. We also had spent so much time on what I considered "English" that I broke out some of that work and put it into US History - all the King and JFK work was actually for English in my mind at the time, but moved into History when I wrote up the course descriptions because English was just way too full.

US History in a World Context. (1 credit)
This course focused on historical events from 1840-1975 and studied how ideas, beliefs and social mores have shaped the United States. The course asked probing questions, challenged preconceived assumptions, and evaluated biases. It also studied how to critically evaluate different interpretation of historical events and why these interpretations can vary over time. The power of rhetoric in shaping perception was studied by critically analyzing the writing and speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr. and John F. Kennedy. The course included reading assignments, participation in discussions, and short essays.
Texts:
Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student, by Edward Corbett
Rhetoric in the Classical Tradition, by Winifred Horner
Narrative of the Life of Fredrick Douglas, by Fredrick Douglass.
The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, by Mark Twain.
To Kill a Mocking Bird, by Harper Lee
The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald
The Crucible, by Author Miller
Letter from Birmingham Jail, Martin Luther King, Jr.
Inaugural Address, John F. Kennedy
Frontier Living, by Edwin Tunis
Shutting out the Sky: Life in the Tenements of New York, by Deborah Hopkinson
Bootleg: Murder, Moonshine, and the Lawless Years of Prohibition, by Karen Blumenthal
Six Days in October: the Stock Market Crash of 1929, by Karen Blumenthal
Hitler Youth: Growing up in Hitler’s Shadow, by Susan Bartoletti
The Bomb: The Race to Build the World’s Most Dangerous Weapon, by Steve Sheinkin
After Gandhi: 100 years of nonviolent resistance, by Anne O’Brien
Black Gold: The Story of Oil in our Lives, by Albert Marrin
Ken Burns The Civil War (9 hours)
Ken Burns The West (8 hours)
World War 1 in Color (6 hours)
World War 2 in Color (11 hours)
Vietnam War: a Television History (11 hours)

------------------------

Contemporary World Problems was a class I built from 4 years of nightly reading of high end magazines. He read, and we discussed at the dinner table. 

Contemporary World Problems. (1 credit)

This course covered political, economic, social, and environmental problems and sought to understand current events from a historical perspective. The course explored relationships between events, evaluated competing beliefs and goals, and identified bias. Scientific and technological advancements were also studied to better understand the part they play in solving some of the world’s most difficult problems. These periodicals were read year-round throughout high school, yielding 800 hours of reading. The course included reading assignments, participation in discussions, and short essays.
Texts: The Economist, National Geographic, Scientific American.

---------------------

For this philosophy class, I pulled stuff out of English again, because English was just too full. The 3 essays he wrote were actually for English at the time, but moved here.  I also added in the Godel, Escher, and Bach book because I couldn't figure out where to put it.  It did take him a *very* long time to read. 

The History of Western Thought. (1 credit)
This course examined the development of the western intellectual tradition from the Greeks through to 20th-century thinkers. Topics included metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, and political philosophy. The course examined the rational basis of belief in all areas of inquiry, and taught critical and creative thinking and how to construct a cogent argument. In addition to studying the great thinkers of each era, philosophical novels by classic authors were read and discussed including Voltaire, Faust, Dostoyevsky, Borges, Camu, Hemingway, and Vonnegut. The course also took a detour into the philosophy of consciousness and how it can be analytically modelled. The course included reading assignments, participation in discussions, and short essays.
Textbooks: Blackburn. Think: A Compelling Introduction to Philosophy. 1999.
Garvey. The Twenty Greatest Philosophy Books. 2006.
Hofstadter. Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. 1979.

Lecture Series: Justice. EdX. Harvard University

-----------------------------

Same as the one I posted above, but thought I would put it here for completeness

Macroeconomics and Inequality. (0.5 credits)
Using the Piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century, this course evaluated and analyzed the history, theory, and implications of inequality in the world. The focus was on understanding how historical data can aid in understanding past and present trends in multiple countries. The student learned to track and reconstruct complex arguments and evaluate evidence such as facts, statistics, examples, and expert opinions. Khan Academy lectures were used to provide the necessary background on economic growth, the business cycle, the global economy, unemployment, inflation, and economic policy. The Economist was used to understand macroeconomics in the context of current events and across many different economic and political systems. The course included reading assignments and participation in discussions.
Textbook: Piketty. Capital in the Twenty-First Century. 2014
Macroeconomics lectures from Khan Academy
The Economist. Weekly magazine.

-----------------------

This was just an AP review book. It was a get it done class, so I had him read the book and then do the multiple choice questions in his head. I'd ask him " how did you do?" and he would say, "I got them all right". I called this 'unit tests' in the course description. I figured it was no different than multiple choice tests given all over the US. In addition, we discussed at the dinner table how the NZ government worked compared to the countries he was reading about. I considered this an easy A. I did have a superscript category on the transcript where I marked AP equivalent classes (I'm in NZ so no AP), I did not include this one. This was an easy, get it done class. Basically, with the board's help, most people thought that because ds was a US citizen and applying as such, that he may need to have a government class as a strict requirement. So we made it short and sweet and ticked the box.  He also did learn some stuff! 

Comparative Government. (0.5 credits)
This course focused on political science concepts in a variety of country settings. The course covered sovereignty, authority, power, political institutions, citizens, the state, political change, economic change, and public policy. It compared the government and political system of New Zealand to systems in the United Kingdom, Russian Federation, China, Mexico, Iran, Nigeria, and Vietnam. Students learned to interpret graphs and data analysis and were expected to compare themes across countries. The course included reading assignments and unit tests.

Textbook: Davis. Comparative Government & Politics. 2016
 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

Found another. His first physics class had no tests or output based on his textbook physics work.  He just read the textbook and did Regentrude's problem list.  Basically, I could have had just one physics class on the transcript, but I needed a place to put his science fair project because it was enormous. So the second physics course had the NZ national exams listed. 

Physics with Lab. (1 credit)
This course covered kinematics, forces, Newton’s Laws, circular motion, rotational dynamics, linear and angular momentum, energy, oscillations, waves, electric field, circuits, capacitors, and magnetism. Science Fair project: Red Light, Green Earth: Saving Time and Emissions by Timing of Traffic Lights. Data for 15 variables was collected for a city street adjacent to the harbour including velocity of cars, timing of the lights, distance between lights, number of cars, etc. A model was developed to time the lights to decrease idling time at lights, and used to predict petrol and thus CO2 savings on an annual basis. 
Textbook: Knight et al., College Physics. 2010.

---------------------

Forgot I put in PE. No output there either. 

Wing Tsun 9, 10, 11, and 12. (Wing Tsun School, 0.5 credits each year)
This course took a traditional Chinese approach to combining physical fitness and coordination
with mental discipline and ethics. The class included lectures on Chinese culture, Cantonese
terminology, and moral codes. Students took turns leading the class in the Wing Tsun forms,
and received critical review from Sifu and top students. The class focused on cooperative
learning and integrating Wing Tsun philosophies into daily life. Classes met 3 hours per week.

-------------------------

I'm looking at HALF of his courses having minimal to no output. But this was balanced by the other half having intensive output with National exams, numerous essays and research papers, high-end labs, etc. 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by lewelma

[Swimmer1112]

7 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Found another. His first physics class had no tests or output based on his textbook physics work.  He just read the textbook and did Regentrude's problem list.  Basically, I could have had just one physics class on the transcript, but I needed a place to put his science fair project because it was enormous. So the second physics course had the NZ national exams listed. 

Physics with Lab. (1 credit)
This course covered kinematics, forces, Newton’s Laws, circular motion, rotational dynamics, linear and angular momentum, energy, oscillations, waves, electric field, circuits, capacitors, and magnetism. Science Fair project: Red Light, Green Earth: Saving Time and Emissions by Timing of Traffic Lights. Data for 15 variables was collected for a city street adjacent to the harbour including velocity of cars, timing of the lights, distance between lights, number of cars, etc. A model was developed to time the lights to decrease idling time at lights, and used to predict petrol and thus CO2 savings on an annual basis. 
Textbook: Knight et al., College Physics. 2010.

---------------------

Forgot I put in PE. No output there either. 

Wing Tsun 9, 10, 11, and 12. (Wing Tsun School, 0.5 credits each year)
This course took a traditional Chinese approach to combining physical fitness and coordination
with mental discipline and ethics. The class included lectures on Chinese culture, Cantonese
terminology, and moral codes. Students took turns leading the class in the Wing Tsun forms,
and received critical review from Sifu and top students. The class focused on cooperative
learning and integrating Wing Tsun philosophies into daily life. Classes met 3 hours per week.

-------------------------

I'm looking at HALF of his courses having minimal to no output. 

 

Did you issue grades for the classes? How did you handle the grading?

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, Marie.Sd said:

Did you issue grades for the classes? How did you handle the grading?

Yes, I gave grades for all classes. I wrote up in my school profile document that I uses a mastery system to determine grades.  So for the homeschool classes where I thought he had mastered the material, I gave him an A. This was a subjective determination for the homeschool classes and not based on a grade book or some such. But in my mind, I aligned my homeschool course grades to his national exams grades and standardized tests. 

So he got a 780 on the SAT verbal and all 'excellences' on his five English national exams, this meant that his social studies classes were all As because in my mind he had demonstrated his deep thinking and capability to read high end content. These exam marks confirmed my subjective evaluation that he had mastered the content and skills of a related field.

He was doing international math exams, this meant that all his self-studied math courses received As. 

etc. 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by lewelma

[lewelma]

From the school profile:

"Grades were subjectively computed using a mastery scale of A=high mastery, B=above average, C= satisfactory, and D=unsatisfactory."

Then, in the course descriptions, I listed very clearly what was expected for each homeschooled class. " The course included...." was always my last line before the resource list.  And if he was taking a class with an outside vendor I would state that.

Then in the transcript I had superscripts that indicated if the course was taken through AoPS, the local uni, or with the NZ national exams. So it was clear who was giving the grades. 

I do not run my homeschool like a school -- I do not give tests and I do not grade papers. But yet I had to align the documentation to a form that they could understand and were expecting. This was NOT an easy task, and I had lots of help from Regentrude and others.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by lewelma

[EKT]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

Found another. His first physics class had no tests or output based on his textbook physics work.  He just read the textbook and did Regentrude's problem list.  Basically, I could have had just one physics class on the transcript, but I needed a place to put his science fair project because it was enormous. So the second physics course had the NZ national exams listed. 

Physics with Lab. (1 credit)
This course covered kinematics, forces, Newton’s Laws, circular motion, rotational dynamics, linear and angular momentum, energy, oscillations, waves, electric field, circuits, capacitors, and magnetism. Science Fair project: Red Light, Green Earth: Saving Time and Emissions by Timing of Traffic Lights. Data for 15 variables was collected for a city street adjacent to the harbour including velocity of cars, timing of the lights, distance between lights, number of cars, etc. A model was developed to time the lights to decrease idling time at lights, and used to predict petrol and thus CO2 savings on an annual basis. 
Textbook: Knight et al., College Physics. 2010.

---------------------

Forgot I put in PE. No output there either. 

Wing Tsun 9, 10, 11, and 12. (Wing Tsun School, 0.5 credits each year)
This course took a traditional Chinese approach to combining physical fitness and coordination
with mental discipline and ethics. The class included lectures on Chinese culture, Cantonese
terminology, and moral codes. Students took turns leading the class in the Wing Tsun forms,
and received critical review from Sifu and top students. The class focused on cooperative
learning and integrating Wing Tsun philosophies into daily life. Classes met 3 hours per week.

-------------------------

I'm looking at HALF of his courses having minimal to no output. But this was balanced by the other half having intensive output with National exams, numerous essays and research papers, high-end labs, etc. 

 

Thank you for taking the time to share all of this! I appreciate it!