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17 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Tell that to the parents of kids who are abducted by strangers - about 350 per year in the U.S.

While horrible and heartbreaking for those 350 families, there are approximately 74 million children in the US. 350 of 74 million is .000473%. It is amazingly rare. 

74 million in 2020: https://www.childstats.gov/AMERICASCHILDREN/tables/pop1.asp

FWIW, as for stranger danger, I taught my kids to look for a mom if they got lost. Find a mom with a stroller or a couple of young kids, and she will help you. I also taught them to look for a name tag in a store or at Disney to find an employee. 

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I didn't open many of your videos, but I did see that there's one about the decades-old Satanic Panic that made me think it wasn't worth opening the other links since debunked scare tactics don't help

(Deleted personal details)... she let men abuse her child in exchange for drugs, food, and housing.  That is sadly common. Exploiting runaways, illegal immigrants, and alienated teens, manipulati

My personal opinion is that people latch onto these theories because the truth of child trafficking is too horrible to consider. We all know that it’s real and it’s a terrible problem.  However....it’

26 minutes ago, Soror said:

People seem to thing (wrongly) that worrying about these things can't hurt, it is just being cautious but it does hurt. Not only does it hurt the efforts of those who are actually fighting trafficking as opposed to those in Q that are just using these for political gain, it hurts society as a whole. Our kids are living in a world that is more and more hyper vigilant, the stress is not good for them to be worrying there is someone out to kidnap at every corner. It doesn't help them that we continue passing laws that restrict their independence, so many things we could do as children they are no longer allowed to do. I worry about the children vulnerable to trafficking that are being ignored and hurt by the takeover of this issue by Q and their bogus claims. I worry about my own children picking up on this bs from other kid's parents, certain that all that Q puts out is real and thinks their kids are going to be kidnapped by random strangers at any moment.

This.  It can't be emphasized enough.

Conspiracy theorists influenced people to vote for an administration that has put children in cages, and separated them from families, actions that dramatically increased the risk that these children will be abused.  

Conspiracy theorists influenced people to vote for an administration that has made it harder for women and children fleeing violence in their home countries to find safety in the US.  

Conspiracy theorists have diverted law enforcement resources that could be used to fight trafficking to fighting insurrection. 

A conspiracy theory motivated someone to fire a gun in a family establishment where children were playing, motivated by the desire to rescue kids from a non-existent basement.  

Anxiety about "stranger danger", leads people to support practices in public schools and in communities that reduce transparency and provide cover for child abusers.

There is enormous danger in these theories, including danger to children. 

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6 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

While horrible and heartbreaking for those 350 families, there are approximately 74 million children in the US. 350 of 74 million is .000473%. It is amazingly rare. 

74 million in 2020: https://www.childstats.gov/AMERICASCHILDREN/tables/pop1.asp

FWIW, as for stranger danger, I taught my kids to look for a mom if they got lost. Find a mom with a stroller or a couple of young kids, and she will help you. I also taught them to look for a name tag in a store or at Disney to find an employee. 

Rare, but very real - which was my point. Saying "stranger danger is not really real" is simply not true. Lots of things are rare but real, and I don't understand the impulse to downplay this one. To me, that's as foolish as overstating the child trafficking issue. Why not just be factual?

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5 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Rare, but very real - which was my point. Saying "stranger danger is not really real" is simply not true. Lots of things are rare but real, and I don't understand the impulse to downplay this one. To me, that's as foolish as overstating the child trafficking issue. Why not just be factual?

I think possibly the poster overstated their case. I understood them to mean that focusing so much on an extremely rare danger takes attention away from the much more common danger posed by adults known to the child, and may be detrimental to improving awareness of that danger.

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5 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Rare, but very real - which was my point. Saying "stranger danger is not really real" is simply not true. Lots of things are rare but real, and I don't understand the impulse to downplay this one. To me, that's as foolish as overstating the child trafficking issue. Why not just be factual?

The problem with stranger danger

https://empathicparentingcounseling.com/tricky-person-not-stranger-danger/

Stop teaching stranger danger

https://www.mikids.org/blog-posts/2018/11/15/stop-teaching-stranger-danger

Danger isn't always a stranger

https://defendinnocence.org/danger-isnt-always-a-stranger/

Focusing on the extremely rare abductions by strangers can be harmful to children. Of course some children are abducted by strangers. Being very literal and saying it's real because of those 350 children adds to the myth that "most" danger comes from strangers and ignores the fact that most child abuse and CSA comes from those close to the child.

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1 minute ago, TCB said:

I think possibly the poster overstated their case. I understood them to mean that focusing so much on an extremely rare danger takes attention away from the much more common danger posed by adults known to the child, and may be detrimental to improving awareness of that danger.

We must have been posting at the same time.

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11 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Rare, but very real - which was my point. Saying "stranger danger is not really real" is simply not true. Lots of things are rare but real, and I don't understand the impulse to downplay this one. To me, that's as foolish as overstating the child trafficking issue. Why not just be factual?

I get upset over the "stranger danger" issue because I was afraid to let my kids walk the 1/4 mile down the road to get the mail by themselves until they were teens for fear that the old ladies on the street would call DCFS to report me for neglecting them. American children as a whole have very little freedom to be without direct supervision due mainly to fear: their parents' fear of strangers abducting them as well as their parents' fear of strangers reporting them.

Edit: I've had little old ladies stop and stand across the street to watch over my children while my kids played in our driveway simply to "keep them safe". They were 11, 8, and 6 at the time in their own front yard. 

Edited by historically accurate
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3 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Rare, but very real - which was my point. Saying "stranger danger is not really real" is simply not true. Lots of things are rare but real, and I don't understand the impulse to downplay this one. To me, that's as foolish as overstating the child trafficking issue. Why not just be factual?

I absolutely know that stranger abductions are an issue, that they can happen, and they're terrifying what they do.  But when I look at the issue through my own particular experience, both as the parent of a child who was hurt, and as a special education teacher, I think we have to be very careful about the idea of "stranger danger".

The idea that there is danger in the world, from people we don't know, is often used as an excuse to isolate children and disabled adults in ways that put them at risk.  When my son's family withdrew from outside contact, people viewed that as a sign that his grandmother was being protective, when in fact it was a sign that he desperately needed help.  With my students, I often have to convince parents that allowing their children to learn to use public transportation, or move independently in the community increases their safety, because people with disabilities who are abused are usually abused by people who are paid to help them.  

Again, I'm not saying that bad things do not happen to people at the hands of stranger.  But the idea that strangers pose a particular danger that is greater than the danger posed by family members, volunteers, or paid helpers, is not supported by statistics. 

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3 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

The problem with stranger danger

https://empathicparentingcounseling.com/tricky-person-not-stranger-danger/

Stop teaching stranger danger

https://www.mikids.org/blog-posts/2018/11/15/stop-teaching-stranger-danger

Danger isn't always a stranger

https://defendinnocence.org/danger-isnt-always-a-stranger/

Focusing on the extremely rare abductions by strangers can be harmful to children. Of course some children are abducted by strangers. Being very literal and saying it's real because of those 350 children adds to the myth that "most" danger comes from strangers and ignores the fact that most child abuse and CSA comes from those close to the child.

I've personally never heard the myth that most danger comes from strangers. It has always been pretty common knowledge that relatives, family friends, school or church personnel, coaches, etc. can and do harm children.

I have followed true crime cases for many years - and if anything, the parents of children who DO get abducted by strangers express sorrow and grief that they weren't more aware of the danger.

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In case it helps anyone, this is what to look for in regards to trafficking in nail salons. As I said, I saw some of this in the one I stopped going to - particularly an over the top manager, employees that seemed afraid of her, employees refusing to handle money, lack of english, young age, just a weird vibe. Another place I have been is very different in vibe, still Vietnamese, but older employees who seem to have a good time, I see them taking breaks, having snacks, laughing...just very different. In that one the one manager actually will spot me walking by and ask how my kids are, lol. Oh, and I stopped going to another one that became cash only and got weird. The one I go to now (well, pre covid) is actually inside a walmart. No sleeping quarters there!

Signs of Human Trafficking in Nail Salons


The Employees

  • Are they unwilling to make eye contact or engage with you?
  • Do they seem tense or frightened (especially of a manager)?
  • Do they appear younger than you would expect?
  • Do they seem not to speak English? (Many migrants don’t speak English but as this makes people more vulnerable, it is a huge plus for slave owners.)
  • Is their appearance unkempt and neglected? Do they always wear the same clothes or have personal hygiene issues?
  • Do they refuse to handle money, instead instructing you to give it to a manager to take?
  • Does the manager seem domineering and overly watchful of their employees?
  • Is there a lack of conversation between staff? Does the atmosphere seem off?
  • Do they allow their manager to speak for them when addressed directly?
  • Do they take breaks?
  • Do they seem properly trained?
  • The Business

  • Is it a cash-only business?
  • Are there living quarters upstairs?
  • Is there a high turnover of staff?
  • Does the pricing seem too good to be true?

https://travellingjezebel.com/vietnamese-nail-bars-human-trafficking/

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4 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

In case it helps anyone, this is what to look for in regards to trafficking in nail salons. As I said, I saw some of this in the one I stopped going to - particularly an over the top manager, employees that seemed afraid of her, employees refusing to handle money, lack of english, young age, just a weird vibe. Another place I have been is very different in vibe, still Vietnamese, but older employees who seem to have a good time, I see them taking breaks, having snacks, laughing...just very different. In that one the one manager actually will spot me walking by and ask how my kids are, lol. Oh, and I stopped going to another one that became cash only and got weird. The one I go to now (well, pre covid) is actually inside a walmart. No sleeping quarters there!

Signs of Human Trafficking in Nail Salons


The Employees

  • Are they unwilling to make eye contact or engage with you?
  • Do they seem tense or frightened (especially of a manager)?
  • Do they appear younger than you would expect?
  • Do they seem not to speak English? (Many migrants don’t speak English but as this makes people more vulnerable, it is a huge plus for slave owners.)
  • Is their appearance unkempt and neglected? Do they always wear the same clothes or have personal hygiene issues?
  • Do they refuse to handle money, instead instructing you to give it to a manager to take?
  • Does the manager seem domineering and overly watchful of their employees?
  • Is there a lack of conversation between staff? Does the atmosphere seem off?
  • Do they allow their manager to speak for them when addressed directly?
  • Do they take breaks?
  • Do they seem properly trained?
  • The Business

  • Is it a cash-only business?
  • Are there living quarters upstairs?
  • Is there a high turnover of staff?
  • Does the pricing seem too good to be true?

https://travellingjezebel.com/vietnamese-nail-bars-human-trafficking/

There is a nail salon in my neighborhood that I stopped going to because it was completely clear that something approaching trafficking/slave labor was occurring there.  There is no obvious way to report it locally however.  I see that as a problem.

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4 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

There is a nail salon in my neighborhood that I stopped going to because it was completely clear that something approaching trafficking/slave labor was occurring there.  There is no obvious way to report it locally however.  I see that as a problem.

Same. I called the police twice now for kids/teens that seemed to be forced labor in door to door sales, but didn't know what to do about a salon. Just found this https://www.state.gov/domestic-trafficking-hotlines/

 

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18 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

I get upset over the "stranger danger" issue because I was afraid to let my kids walk the 1/4 mile down the road to get the mail by themselves until they were teens for fear that the old ladies on the street would call DCFS to report me for neglecting them. American children as a whole have very little freedom to be without direct supervision due mainly to fear: their parents' fear of strangers abducting them as well as their parents' fear of strangers reporting them.

Edit: I've had little old ladies stop and stand across the street to watch over my children while my kids played in our driveway simply to "keep them safe". They were 11, 8, and 6 at the time in their own front yard. 

When ds was around 12 or 13 (I don't remember but I posted about it on WTM back when it happened) when we took a break in the middle of our school day, he rode his bicycle to the convenience store at the edge of our neighborhood. On the way back a police officer stopped him to ask him what he was doing out of school at that hour. He told the officer he was homeschooled and gave him our address. I expected him to come and check but he never did.  

Edited by Lady Florida.
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1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

The last two are by a guy (I won't list his name here because I don't want google searches leading here) who pushes QAnon conspiracy theories about rampant pedophilia and trafficking among celebrities. Another is about satanic rituals and child abuse, which is presumably linked to support the QAnon claim that a satanic cabal of celebrities and powerful Democrats kidnap children for s*x and cannibalism. 

In other threads she has posted links to sites that claim vaccines cause autism, that the covid vaccine is "a eugenics program that includes genocide," pushes various QAnon conspiracies about Fauci and Gates, and includes stories like "The Satanic Roots to Modern Medicine: The Mark of the Beast." And she claimed that anyone who is in "denial" of these conspiracy theories and "unwilling to look" into the evidence is "morally complicit with evil." 

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1 hour ago, Selkie said:

Tell that to the parents of kids who are abducted by strangers - about 350 per year in the U.S.

First of all, are those all stranger abductions?

Secondly, that’s less than the estimated number of kid deaths from the flu each year. Are you as vigilant about that?

And it’s MUCH less than the number of kids who die in car accidents — that’s in the thousands. Are you careful not to use the car too much?

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1 hour ago, Spryte said:


To answer the question ... I have not clicked on any of the specific links, because they don’t have any identifying info.  Just incomprehensible numbers and letters, no description, and I don’t want to further the spread of misinformation by giving views to videos that are likely conspiracy theories. I don’t want my YouTube algorithm to suddenly start taking me (or my kids) down those sorts of rabbit holes. Clicking those links just fuels the fires (and wallets) of conspiracy theorists.

It’s a personal choice that I will not do anything to perpetuate propaganda-driven conspiracy theories by giving them any credence or reposting them.

Yes, I think human trafficking happens, is horrific and real. What I don’t think is real is putting these crimes at the feet of members of a particular political party, that there is an international cabal, that there is one charismatic leader working behind the scenes to defeat pedophiles, that the members of that one particular party do unspeakable things to children and babies, and I could go on and on.   I don’t know if those particular links share that view, but they are heading that direction.

I think posting those types of links and viewing them, and perpetuating their spread is irresponsible.  And I, personally, think that just ignoring them isn’t enough, that we have a responsibility to call out misinformation when we see it, even if it’s uncomfortable to do so.  

Now I’ve probably said way too much, so feel free to delete this post.  (Or maybe I will, eek!) I just noticed that no one had answered the question about what happens when one clicks the links.  Enough people here had viewed them for me to know that I don’t want to contribute to their viewership.

Thanks for reviewing so many threads!  It’s a lot of work that you do!

Thanks! No worries. This post is fine. 

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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

First of all, are those all stranger abductions?

Secondly, that’s less than the estimated number of kid deaths from the flu each year. Are you as vigilant about that?

And it’s MUCH less than the number of kids who die in car accidents — that’s in the thousands. Are you careful not to use the car too much?

Yes, stranger abductions. And I haven't been talking about my own level of vigilance at all (my kids are grown). 

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I think as long as no one mentions QAnon or words like left and right wing, then this thread can stay up.  We just can't get political because that kind of conversations can go on the political board. 

I could be wrong and another moderator may overrule me and that's fine. 

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5 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Yes, stranger abductions. And I haven't been talking about my own level of vigilance at all (my kids are grown). 

But I think the point is that while there ARE stranger abductions (although I think exact numbers are hard to pin down), they happen much less often than other things people aren’t nearly as concerned about. That’s why people start saying that there’s no such thing as “stranger danger.”

Basically, we all have limited bandwidth. If we spend lots of time worrying about something rare, we’ll neglect something actually dangerous.

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The increasing prevelance of child on child sexual assaults in a school environment is one danger that largely seems to go undiscussed by both 'stranger danger!' and 'its all in the family!' proponents.

@Pen, you were extremely patient and helpful to me when I was totally freaking out about working in a school at the start of the pandemic. You especially helped me find small ways to exert some control over a frightening situation - confidence to wear a mask early, accepting help to reduce public transport exposure, taking Vitamin D - your willingness to engage with anxious me really helped me so much to adjust to pandemic life  in a healthy, balanced way. 

If I can ever return the favour on issues like this, let me know. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, historically accurate said:

I get upset over the "stranger danger" issue because I was afraid to let my kids walk the 1/4 mile down the road to get the mail by themselves until they were teens for fear that the old ladies on the street would call DCFS to report me for neglecting them. American children as a whole have very little freedom to be without direct supervision due mainly to fear: their parents' fear of strangers abducting them as well as their parents' fear of strangers reporting them.

Edit: I've had little old ladies stop and stand across the street to watch over my children while my kids played in our driveway simply to "keep them safe". They were 11, 8, and 6 at the time in their own front yard. 

I had the police called on us last fall because my three kids(10, 8 and 5) were playing “unsupervised” on the sidewalk with the neighbor kids(ages 7 and 5).  They were running back and forth between our houses and both me and the other mom were keeping an eye on them out our windows.

It was ridiculous.  This is a dead end street with minimal traffic and our kids ride bikes and play on the sidewalks all summer long, but it drives the older ladies on my street(late 60s-early 80s) absolutely nuts that we allow it.

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11 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I had the police called on us last fall because my three kids(10, 8 and 5) were playing “unsupervised” on the sidewalk with the neighbor kids(ages 7 and 5).  They were running back and forth between our houses and both me and the other mom were keeping an eye on them out our windows.

It was ridiculous.  This is a dead end street with minimal traffic and our kids ride bikes and play on the sidewalks all summer long, but it drives the older ladies on my street(late 60s-early 80s) absolutely nuts that we allow it.

Did these ladies never have children? It would have been uncommon in their generation to never allow kids to play in the neighborhood.

 

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14 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I had the police called on us last fall because my three kids(10, 8 and 5) were playing “unsupervised” on the sidewalk with the neighbor kids(ages 7 and 5).  They were running back and forth between our houses and both me and the other mom were keeping an eye on them out our windows.

It was ridiculous.  This is a dead end street with minimal traffic and our kids ride bikes and play on the sidewalks all summer long, but it drives the older ladies on my street(late 60s-early 80s) absolutely nuts that we allow it.

This seems crazy to me. People in their 60s - 80s most likely grew up with lots of freedom to roam and play outside. I am in my 60s and have great memories of freedom to play with friends outside, walk to the store, etc. I would have expected folks in my age cohort to be happy to see kids playing outside, not hassling their parents about it! (Just to be clear, I believe you when you say it's happening on your street; I just find it so strange!)  

Edited by marbel
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Something which happens so rarely is not a real risk, Selkie. It's tragic when it happens, sure - but the amount of worrying and handwringing about it that we do as a society in the US does more harm.

If you want to save children's lives, encourage more mass transit and sidewalks where you live, and stricter enforcement of traffic codes (backed up by something impartial, one hopes, like cameras.)

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20 minutes ago, marbel said:

This seems crazy to me. People in their 60s - 80s most likely grew up with lots of freedom to roam and play outside. I am in my 60s and have great memories of freedom to play with friends outside, walk to the store, etc. I would have expected folks in my age cohort to be happy to see kids playing outside, not hassling their parents about it! (Just to be clear, I believe you when you say it's happening on your street; I just find it so strange!)  

Same here and I'm also in my 60s. We walked almost 2 miles to school (we lived just under the 2 mile bus limit), walked to the corner store which was actually farther away than "the corner" walked to friends' houses who weren't close neighbors. We were told to go outside and stay outside. Those of us who were lucky had neighbor kids to play with. Others played with siblings or even alone if they were only children. We played outside unsupervised in the summer until the street lights came on - our cue to go inside.

I guess those women turned into the female version of the GET OFF MY LAWN! guys. That's sad. You'd think they'd be glad to see kids out playing. I know I am when I see such things. My thought is maybe they feel vulnerable due to their age and have heard that it's no longer safe for kids outside so they think kids are vulnerable too. Maybe they've heard the stranger danger stuff and think it's not like it was when they were kids. Still, being at an age when neighbors talked to each other one would think they'd just go knock on the door and talk to the mom. It makes me sad to see people my age acting in this way.

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29 minutes ago, maize said:

Did these ladies never have children? It would have been uncommon in their generation to never allow kids to play in the neighborhood.

 

My mom let me walk to school, walk to the corner store, etc in elementary school. By middle school I could hang out at the mall unsupervised, go to the movies, etc. 

Yet she PANICS over her grandchildren playing outside alone. She's convinced there are predators on every corner ready to sell my kids or me into sexual slavery. Because of the internet or something. 

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22 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My mom let me walk to school, walk to the corner store, etc in elementary school. By middle school I could hang out at the mall unsupervised, go to the movies, etc. 

Yet she PANICS over her grandchildren playing outside alone. She's convinced there are predators on every corner ready to sell my kids or me into sexual slavery. Because of the internet or something. 

I find that people are cultural chameleons. 

When I was 8 or 9, I was allowed to walk to school by myself. The walk to school was like half an hour. It was through a busy city center in Ukraine. I didn’t have a phone or anything, since mobile phones didn’t exist.

My sister was born in Canada when I was in my late teens. She was barely allowed to take a bus to school until she was well into high school, and it was a bus that went basically straight from our house to her school. Maybe one street would have needed crossing.

The main difference was the dominant culture. Objectively, our suburb in Canada was much safer than the Ukrainian city center 😉 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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21 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My mom let me walk to school, walk to the corner store, etc in elementary school. By middle school I could hang out at the mall unsupervised, go to the movies, etc. 

Yet she PANICS over her grandchildren playing outside alone. She's convinced there are predators on every corner ready to sell my kids or me into sexual slavery. Because of the internet or something. 

Two of them never did have children, but this is truly the reason why.  They all believe that it is much, much, much more dangerous than it used to be.

Ive been a paramedic for 13 years.  I’ve seen children die in car accidents, drownings, an accidental shooting, and beaten to death at the hands of their parents. So after seeing these things first hand, I can honestly say that stranger abduction is not even on my radar. 

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45 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My mom let me walk to school, walk to the corner store, etc in elementary school. By middle school I could hang out at the mall unsupervised, go to the movies, etc. 

Yet she PANICS over her grandchildren playing outside alone. She's convinced there are predators on every corner ready to sell my kids or me into sexual slavery. Because of the internet or something. 

That's because those who push certain conspiracy theories purposely conflate the very small number of children abducted by strangers with the total number of children who are reported missing every year — which includes runaways, kids who are temporarily lost, kids who have been taken by noncustodial parents or other relatives, children taken by people they know, etc. So people who listen to those "media" sources become genuinely convinced that hundreds of thousands of children in the US are grabbed off the streets every year and sold into sex slavery. 

Please don't quote the part below:

My mother is the same way, despite the fact that the only incidence of child sex abuse she has any actual knowledge of happened in her own home. But she totally believes that members of a certain political party are kidnapping and selling children, and that one specific person was chosen by God to save them. Considering that she chose not to save her own child from abuse... I can't even fathom the mental gymnastics needed to overcome the cognitive dissonance there.

Edited by Corraleno
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32 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

My mom let me walk to school, walk to the corner store, etc in elementary school. By middle school I could hang out at the mall unsupervised, go to the movies, etc. 

Yet she PANICS over her grandchildren playing outside alone. She's convinced there are predators on every corner ready to sell my kids or me into sexual slavery. Because of the internet or something. 

I was about to post the same thing. Oh my, if I let my kids do the things she let us do back in the 80s I would never hear the end of it. But she has become more afraid of everything and negative as she's gotten older. It's made it hard to tell her just about anything going on in my life because she jumps to all the ways every little thing is dangerous or a bad idea. And I am a very careful person in general (especially after the experiences I shared upthread), but I suppose that's a different story 🤣

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The other thing that we're really starting to hear more about is kids being victimized by adults in organized sports-many of which parents are choosing to do as an alternative to having their kids play outside "unsupervised". Supervision is only as good as the adults involved.  I don't think that's a good choice, either. 

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1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

Something which happens so rarely is not a real risk, Selkie. It's tragic when it happens, sure - but the amount of worrying and handwringing about it that we do as a society in the US does more harm.

If you want to save children's lives, encourage more mass transit and sidewalks where you live, and stricter enforcement of traffic codes (backed up by something impartial, one hopes, like cameras.)

We will have to continue to disagree.

As to your second paragraph, maybe that is applicable where you live, but not here (a rural county with low population). I'm pretty sure more kids here have been injured in accidents involving mass transit (school buses) than in car accidents in recent years. The sidewalk situation is fine, and traffic codes are enforced.

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Just now, Selkie said:

We will have to continue to disagree.

As to your second paragraph, maybe that is applicable where you live, but not here (a rural county with low population). I'm pretty sure more kids here have been injured in accidents involving mass transit (school buses) than in car accidents in recent years. The sidewalk situation is fine, and traffic codes are enforced.

Please call your non emergency police line and ask how you can find out those statistics because I’m certain you are wrong. It’s statistically impossible that in an area where kids drive more that they are hurt less in car accidents. But then in the last 6 months the 2 kids of someone I went to high school with were killed by a texting adult and yesterday someone else I know’s 16 year old son had an 8 hour surgery to repair the damage he did in a car accident on his own (rural) road on Sunday.  So it’s possible my perspective in how dangerous cars are is slightly skewed this week. 

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6 minutes ago, Katy said:

Please call your non emergency police line and ask how you can find out those statistics because I’m certain you are wrong. It’s statistically impossible that in an area where kids drive more that they are hurt less in car accidents. But then in the last 6 months the 2 kids of someone I went to high school with were killed by a texting adult and yesterday someone else I know’s 16 year old son had an 8 hour surgery to repair the damage he did in a car accident on his own (rural) road on Sunday.  So it’s possible my perspective in how dangerous cars are is slightly skewed this week. 

I hope your friend’s son has a speedy recovery.  And, oh man, I am so sorry to hear about the two kids who were killed.  That is just tragic.

I looked up a little bit on school bus safety, and came up with this:  https://www.nhtsa.gov/road-safety/school-buses from the Dept of Transportation.  A quote:  Although four to six school-age children die each year on school transportation vehicles, that’s less than one percent of all traffic fatalities nationwide.

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8 minutes ago, Katy said:

Please call your non emergency police line and ask how you can find out those statistics because I’m certain you are wrong. It’s statistically impossible that in an area where kids drive more that they are hurt less in car accidents. But then in the last 6 months the 2 kids of someone I went to high school with were killed by a texting adult and yesterday someone else I know’s 16 year old son had an 8 hour surgery to repair the damage he did in a car accident on his own (rural) road on Sunday.  So it’s possible my perspective in how dangerous cars are is slightly skewed this week. 

I am sorry to hear about that, but you can take my word for it on the happenings in my county. Where I live, everyone knows everything that goes on. Keep in mind that when a school bus full of kids is in an accident, there are usually going to be a lot more injuries than an accident involving a car with a small number of occupants.

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Just now, Selkie said:

I am sorry to hear about that, but you can take my word for it on the happenings in my county. Where I live, everyone knows everything that goes on. Keep in mind that when a school bus full of kids is in an accident, there are usually going to be a lot more injuries than an accident involving a car with a small number of occupants.

I believe this is true for your locally, but chances are, if all those kids had been in individual cars for all the time they spend in school buses, they'd have been worse off on average. 

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11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But do you see what the point being made is? Do you see how focusing on small risks can make people careless about bigger ones? 

No, because I can focus on more than one risk at a time. I do not understand how being aware of one risk makes someone careless about another. I do believe you that it happens, but have not experienced that myself.

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Just now, Selkie said:

No, because I can focus on more than one risk at a time. I do not understand how being aware of one risk makes someone careless about another. I do believe you that it happens, but have not experienced that myself.

Hmmm, well, just as an example... I have a good friend in Austin. Both of us were pretty careful not to run our kids run too far ahead, but she was more worried about her kid being snatched, and I was much more worried about my kid being run over. As you can imagine, that led to different behavior on our parts -- I was VERY careful whenever we were where cars were, whereas she mostly cared about her kid being visible and not near strangers. So evaluating the risks differently made us focus on different things. Does that make sense? 

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57 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

 

I was about to post the same thing. Oh my, if I let my kids do the things she let us do back in the 80s I would never hear the end of it. But she has become more afraid of everything and negative as she's gotten older. It's made it hard to tell her just about anything going on in my life because she jumps to all the ways every little thing is dangerous or a bad idea. And I am a very careful person in general (especially after the experiences I shared upthread), but I suppose that's a different story 🤣

Same. She's just more anxious in general. I think when she was working she had an outlet - she worried about her patients. That spread the worry around. Now it's just focused on my sister and I and our kids. 

She sent me a link the other day to a news report about Ocala now a top crime city in Florida. Y'all....I don't live in Ocala. I'm over an hour away from there. There was zero reason this should be important news to me or my sister, but she sent it to both of us. 

If it is click bait, she clicks. 

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1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Same. She's just more anxious in general. I think when she was working she had an outlet - she worried about her patients. That spread the worry around. Now it's just focused on my sister and I and our kids. 

She sent me a link the other day to a news report about Ocala now a top crime city in Florida. Y'all....I don't live in Ocala. I'm over an hour away from there. There was zero reason this should be important news to me or my sister, but she sent it to both of us. 

If it is click bait, she clicks. 

My MIL has gotten like that, too. She's constantly reading things about how things are unsafe where we live, and then sends us links about it... it's super annoying and unhelpful. 

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

My MIL has gotten like that, too. She's constantly reading things about how things are unsafe where we live, and then sends us links about it... it's super annoying and unhelpful. 

Does she at least get the right city?

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Just now, ktgrok said:

Does she at least get the right city?

Yes, even the right neighborhood 😛 . So she's ahead, I guess. Except that she talks on and on about it, and she's taken to reading our neighborhood newsletter (sadly, it's online) and ANYTHING bad that happens is reported to us and then harped on for the next 3 weeks. 

So maybe you should be happy she's getting the wrong city 😉 . 

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Exaggerating the risks of stranger abduction can also lead people to take actions that endanger innocent people, like shooting up a pizza parlor. Or like this horrific story in which a Good Samaritan who was trying to help a lost child look for her family was not only savagely beaten by the girl's father and his friends, the father posted the man's name and photo all over social media warning that he was a sexual predator and encouraging the public to "run him out of town." The man and his family were forced to move, out of fear for their lives. That is where this politically motivated false hysteria leads.

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21 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Same. She's just more anxious in general. I think when she was working she had an outlet - she worried about her patients. That spread the worry around. Now it's just focused on my sister and I and our kids. 

She sent me a link the other day to a news report about Ocala now a top crime city in Florida. Y'all....I don't live in Ocala. I'm over an hour away from there. There was zero reason this should be important news to me or my sister, but she sent it to both of us. 

If it is click bait, she clicks. 

Oh, gosh. Sounds like my mom. “Did you hear. . .” Interestingly, she let me walk to school when I was K-1st grade and I was sexually assaulted(not sure if that’s the right term to use?) and asked by a man in a car if I wanted a ride home. She did not seem too concerned back then. In fact, she blew the assault off as my fault. 

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I hope it is ok to post this here.

https://www.thehindu.com/society/the-story-of-rippan-kapur-founder-of-cry/article22783658.ece

Rippan Kapur was a hero to many in my generation. He started the organization CRY which was started as Child Relief and You but is now known as Child Rights and You. He started this organization with about 50 Rupees in the 1970s which is less than a dollar even now. He died when he was just 40 years old. But the impact of his life's work cannot be  put in words.

So many individuals started organizations like these, some survivors of trafficking themselves. I want to state that even in countries where there is rampant trafficking there are people and organizations working tirelessly and often they are started by individuals who looked around them and wanted to make a difference. 

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmm, well, just as an example... I have a good friend in Austin. Both of us were pretty careful not to run our kids run too far ahead, but she was more worried about her kid being snatched, and I was much more worried about my kid being run over. As you can imagine, that led to different behavior on our parts -- I was VERY careful whenever we were where cars were, whereas she mostly cared about her kid being visible and not near strangers. So evaluating the risks differently made us focus on different things. Does that make sense? 

No, not to me. As I said before, I do believe you but my mind doesn't work that way. I wouldn't be focused on either of those things to the exclusion of the other, so I cannot relate. 

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