Child Trafficking related

[Pen]

I gather most people on WTM think it’s all a bogus “conspiracy theory” — and I don’t expect that I’ll change anyone’s mind.
 

otoh I will feel better in terms of my own relationship with God to try to bring it to people’s attention.  
 

It’s hard to find available information because media in control tends to take it down.

 

At least briefly before it goes down there’s a lot if you choose to see it.  These  seem to be some available today: 

(Most are people talking about their experiences with no graphic images afaik- but use discretion with regard to children or vulnerable people watching.) 

 

 

 

 

 

(Ones who are killed can’t tell their stories. )

 

 

 

 

God bless all of you, and I hope none of you will have to learn by personal experience or the personal experience of someone close to you that it’s a real thing. 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by desertflower
Sorry Pen. I cut out the youtube videos. It seems that they are too political.

[Frances]

No message since with moderator edits the post no longer made sense and several people made the same points and mentioned the same things in later posts.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Frances
Mentioning QAnon is political

[Amira]

I didn't open many of your videos, but I did see that there's one about the decades-old Satanic Panic that made me think it wasn't worth opening the other links since debunked scare tactics don't help trafficked victims today.

It really bothers me when people say that I don't think that child trafficking happens when I'm skeptical of the current brand of hysteria going on about it.  Child trafficking is a huge problem all over the world, both labor and sex trafficking.  The US has been focused on this for decades, at least partly through its annual Trafficking in Persons report which started in 2000 with a Democratic POTUS and a Republican Congress.  It is not a new thing to care about trafficking and I don't appreciate it when people imply that I don't believe it happens when I dismiss radical, unproven theories about trafficking and instead focus on proven actions to fight it.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Amira

[Shoeless]

What a shame you decided to cast your lot with Qanon. 

I hope people aren't too hard on you when you realize what a mistake you've made.  

 

[Soror]

The problem is it is hurting the REAL people and organizations that are ACTUALLY helping these victims. There are a million articles on this from various groups that have been helping victims for a long time.

Also, it is a bunch of made up Bs that is scaring people to think there is a bogeyman around every corner and further eroding what little independence and freedom kids these days have.

So much of what gets passed around is this a friend of a friend or some other thing or entirely made up. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/12/technology/qanon-save-the-children-trafficking.html

https://www.deseret.com/indepth/2020/10/17/21452574/qanon-q-child-trafficking-save-our-children-exploitation-united-states-qanon-misleading-conspiracy

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/story/2020-09-13/child-trafficking-rallies-qanon

https://combathumantrafficking.org/2020/09/qanon/

https://kidsafefoundation.org/topics/qanon-a-statement-from-kidsafe-foundation/

Edited February 24, 2021 by Soror

[Pawz4me]

I'm worried about you, @Pen. Like @kandsaid, I've noticed the change. I suspect many of us have. I hope you can find your way back.

I hate to make the pet/human analogy because so many people don't like it, but what this child trafficking stuff reminds me of a lot is when people support/give money to/push the ideology of PETA or the Humane Society of the United States thinking that they're helping animals. It just ain't so. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Eos]

Every human is vulnerable - to conspiracy theories.  Our magnificent brains love to find patterns, and our deep reserves of compassion and worry latch onto seeing evil with morbid delight.  Our capacity for faith sets us up to believe.

Real life child trafficking is beyond horrible, but know that someone is literally making money from your clicks, likes, and digital exhaust when you pursue this agenda online.  

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Harpymom

[Katy]

(Deleted personal details)... she let men abuse her child in exchange for drugs, food, and housing.  That is sadly common.

Exploiting runaways, illegal immigrants, and alienated teens, manipulating them with drugs, “love,” violence, and small amounts of money is also sadly common.

What unequivocally doesn’t exist is the q-anon version of this story. Or the idea that middle and upper middle class kids or their mothers are frequently kidnapped from Walmart and sold. These people don’t pick kids that fight back.  They don’t pick people who know their worth and will run to the police at the first opportunity. They pick people who feel there is no point in running because nothing will ever get better.

If you want to fight against trafficking teach your kids about their worth, human dignity, and to trust their guts. Teach them that you love them unconditionally and you’ll fight to make sure they are always treated right and that they always treat other people right. Teach them not to try highly addictive drugs and to absolutely NOT have children if they choose to use highly addictive drugs. Teach them purity is bullshit and theirworth has nothing to do with virginity and everything to do with human dignity. Teach them there is no low they can’t fight their way back from. 
 

And consider foster care. Love can’t fix trauma or the brain injury that comes from being chronically neglected by a drug addicted parent, or fix genetic mental health issues, but there are plenty of kids who need a safe and loving home with stable parents.  I don’t want to make that seem easy, because it’s not. It’s one of the hardest things in the world.

Other alternatives are working as a CASA or supporting foster parents.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Katy

[J-rap]

I can assure you that every one of us knows child trafficking and horrific abuse exists and are absolutely horrified by it.  What we don't agree with is the QAnon version,

Or did you mean something else?

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

My personal opinion is that people latch onto these theories because the truth of child trafficking is too horrible to consider. We all know that it’s real and it’s a terrible problem.  However....it’s easier to contemplate children and grown women getting snatched by strangers at Walmart or in a van by the park than the truth, which is most trafficked children are sold or traded by addicted parents.  They can’t believe a mother would offer her child to her drug dealer for s&x in exchange for the next fix.  Or sold for a bit of money to buy meth. But that, in the vast majority of cases, is what’s actually happening.   And unless you’ve actually seen it(which I have, just because of where I work and how the cops call an ambulance for everything), it’s really just too horrific to contemplate.

People aren’t getting snatched by strangers in vans and sold into slavery rings.  It’s children trafficked by parents and vulnerable girls in foster care or runaways who are lured in by pimps.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[brehon]

Mrs. T, that’s what I see as well in my area. 

[maize]

I know that human trafficking is a real, serious problem in the United States and elsewhere.

 

 

[Pam in CT]

re the business model

8 hours ago, Harpymom said:

Every human is vulnerable - to conspiracy theories.  Our magnificent brains love to find patterns, and our deep reserves of compassion and worry latch onto seeing evil with morbid delight.  Our capacity for faith sets us up to believe.

Real life child trafficking is beyond horrible, but know that someone is literally making money from your clicks, likes, and digital exhaust when you pursue this agenda online.  

 

and harvesting the data footprints of who clicks and likes and forwards your youtube links, which is how the next IP address gets identified to further push the conspiracy.

The digital frontier that folks like Kate Starbird who track how QAnon and other conspiracies disseminate have identified Pinterest affinity groups on cozy subjects like knitting, crafts and cooking as the terrain on which QAnon crossed over from an overwhelmingly male, explicitly white supremacist network (leaning hard in that crowd on 2A themes and exulting in MAGA "masculinity") over to women.

This is a homeschooling board. Those of us who are more or less transparent about our identities are overwhelmingly women.

 

  As noted by several pp, real trafficking overwhelmingly begins with someone quite close to the victim: a parent, stepparent, foster parent. 

 

[Spryte]

Pen, you are worrying many of us.  You’ve gone deeper and deeper down these rabbit holes over the last few months.  It’s like watching you slip away and turn into a different poster.  Your posts have radically shifted.

I won’t even address the implication that you think most people here don’t care about child trafficking.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Spryte

[4atHome]

Well I'm not clicking on the vids and I know nothing about Qanan.  Absolutely, I believe trafficking is a huge and growing issue.  I am sure there is some organized crime involved.  As drug people sell their own children, it will fuel the growth and become more organized, sadly.  I absolutely worry about my children and am prone to helicoptering... no solo walks or bike rides allowed.

Did anyone see the Liam Neeson movie, Taken?  I saw when my dd was little and I'm always nervous about International travel with kids.  It still seems like more of an abroad, than at-home issue.

[OH_Homeschooler]

I believe child trafficking is real. But as the unsuspecting mother of children who were victims of sexual abuse at the hands of their biological father, I think there are many other issues that take precedence. Everyone claims to know that most victims of CSA know their abuser, yet no one really thinks it could happen in their own home.

I think awareness needs to be raised on issues that are much more likely to affect our lives. Q Anon decided to make child trafficking their thing because who doesn't hate a pedophile? Too bad they didn't decide to tell people to look around them, rather than point at the opposing political party.

Edited February 24, 2021 by OH_Homeschooler

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Well I'm not clicking on the vids and I know nothing about Qanan.  Absolutely, I believe trafficking is a huge and growing issue.  I am sure there is some organized crime involved.  As drug people sell their own children, it will fuel the growth and become more organized, sadly.  I absolutely worry about my children and am prone to helicoptering... no solo walks or bike rides allowed.

 

The people most likely to hurt a child are overwhelmingly that child's own parents, stepparents, or foster parents. The next largest group by far is other relatives and caregivers. Your children are not at risk from walking down the street or taking their bikes, because stranger danger isn't really real.

 

Quote

Did anyone see the Liam Neeson movie, Taken?  I saw when my dd was little and I'm always nervous about International travel with kids.  It still seems like more of an abroad, than at-home issue.

Do you understand the difference between truth and fiction?

[Tanaqui]

Quote

(Ones who are killed can’t tell their stories. )

God bless all of you, and I hope none of you will have to learn by personal experience or the personal experience of someone close to you that it’s a real thing. 

Pen, I don't intend to watch those videos because I don't need YT's algorithm to determine that this is the sort of thing I'm interested in watching, but I do have two questions related to the excerpted text from your post.

First, you talk about the ones who are killed who can't tell their stories. That's self-evident. Numbers, however, tell their own story. How many children - I'm broadly defining this here as "minors" - do you think were killed due to being trafficked by strangers in America in the year 2019? Or any "average" year? How many do you think were kidnapped by strangers? What's the raw number we should be working with?

Secondly, do you have personal experience of somebody close to you that this is a real thing? Or do you know somebody with that personal experience, or who knows somebody with that experience? Again, not just of trafficking, a term which comes into play any time a minor trades sex for money or goods (even if there's no "pimp" and they're doing this on their own initiative - a bad thing, sure, but not what most people think of when they hear the word), but specifically of trafficking involving stranger abductions? That is, are you within three steps of somebody or multiple somebodies who have either had a minor in their family abducted by a stranger/mysteriously disappeared or who have personally experienced the sort of trafficking QAnon talks about?

[4atHome]

7 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

The people most likely to hurt a child are overwhelmingly that child's own parents, stepparents, or foster parents. The next largest group by far is other relatives and caregivers. Your children are not at risk from walking down the street or taking their bikes, because stranger danger isn't really real.

Yes, I think we all know it happens, but I don't leave my kids with other caregivers...  and I absolutely believe the foster system is fraught with abuse and kids would be better off in orphanages.

 

8 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Do you understand the difference between truth and fiction?

Where is that eyeroll emoji??  Um, yeah, but I think we all can agree that fiction can enlighten us about such things that are not a reality for many of us.  And can make us realize that it is something to be aware of and concerned about.

[Tanaqui]

I'm sorry, I do have another question related to this statement:

Quote

It’s hard to find available information because media in control tends to take it down.

When you say "media in control", what do you mean? Are you suggesting that the NY Post, of "Headless Body Found in Topless Bar" fame, has decided that "it bleeds, it leads" no longer sells papers? Or that Fox News and CNN are colluding to hide serious information from viewers, while sniping at each other in between times? This sort of story would make somebody's career, not to mention their fortune - what motive would any major organization have for keeping it hidden? And how many people - this isn't rhetoric, this is a serious question - how many people would have to be involved in keeping this secret? What's the raw numbers, and how are the people "in control" keeping them quiet?

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Where is that eyeroll emoji??  Um, yeah, but I think we all can agree that fiction can enlighten us about such things that are not a reality for many of us.  And can make us realize that it is something to be aware of and concerned about.

Which does not mean that fiction *is* reality. Taken is a film. It's not reality. It has no relation to reality. There is nothing in there that you need to be aware of or concerned about. It's made up.

Quote

I absolutely believe the foster system is fraught with abuse and kids would be better off in orphanages.

...you think that the orphanage system was not "fraught with abuse" and that children weren't severely harmed therein?

Edited February 24, 2021 by Tanaqui

[4atHome]

Just now, Tanaqui said:

Which does not mean that fiction *is* reality. Taken is a film. It's not reality. It has no relation to reality.

...you think that the orphanage system was not "fraught with abuse" and that children weren't severely harmed therein?

Events, like those shown in Taken, have a basis in reality.  Granted, the rescue is extremely farfetched; but girls have been kidnapped, in real life, and girls have been drugged and prostituted, in real life, and girls have been auctioned, in real life.  Maybe not all these events happen together for every situation,  but they had to make the most of their 1.5 hr timeslot.  It's been awhile since I saw the movie, but definitely did make me question taking kids abroad where I have a language barrier, making us more vulnerable.

And yeah, reactive attachment disorder is a thing... but I think it's better than the kind of abuse that goes through foster care.  I definitely don't have the solution.  Maybe parents that cared for their own children...?  We do not live in a perfect, ideal world. 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

And yeah, reactive attachment disorder is a thing... but I think it's better than the kind of abuse that goes through foster care. 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/christinekenneally/orphanage-death-catholic-abuse-nuns-st-josephs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/BoWIe4x0Lj/Ireland_hidden_survivors

You're absolutely deluded if you think that orphanages don't have the exact same problems as foster care, times ten.

Quote

Granted, the rescue is extremely farfetched; but girls have been kidnapped, in real life, and girls have been drugged and prostituted, in real life, and girls have been auctioned, in real life. 

You're literally more likely to get struck by lightning, in real life. The movie Taken does not have a legitimate basis in reality, no more than the movie Ocean's Eleven does just because people have really pulled off heists in real life.

I'm actually shaking with the suppressed desire to tell you, specifically, what I think of you, but I'm worried you won't understand you're being insulted when I cave in to the impulse, so just pretend I insulted you outright. I'm gonna block you so I don't end up inflicting bodily harm on my poor computer next time I see one of your ridiculous comments.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Tanaqui

[Spryte]

Institutionalized care for children has been and still is, in some cases, a horrific nightmare for kids.  It goes way beyond reactive attachment disorder. The abuse and neglect is real.

(Deleted personal story about RAD and abuse/neglect in orphanage. Suffice to say that this is personal to me.)

That is part of the reason DH and I became an approved foster home.  So, yeh, hearing that institutionalized care is absolutely better than a loving, caring, supervised foster home?  Ouch. Better oversight, better training, better resources for foster families, sure.  But “orphanages” over well run, caring foster families?  No.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Spryte

[OH_Homeschooler]

34 minutes ago, 4atHome said:

Yes, I think we all know it happens, but I don't leave my kids with other caregivers...  and I absolutely believe the foster system is fraught with abuse and kids would be better off in orphanages.

If you read my post you will see that it's not just outside caregivers. I was involved in my children's lives, we were a close family. My daughter was already in counseling for years before she finally disclosed the root source of her mental health issues.

CSA happens within the home and you'd be amazed at the ways abusers will find to cover it up. But your post goes to show exactly how deep the problem is...even people who say "we know it happens" refuse to believe it can actually happen in their own homes. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

37 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Which does not mean that fiction *is* reality. Taken is a film. It's not reality. It has no relation to reality. There is nothing in there that you need to be aware of or concerned about. It's made up.

Well, listen. I've been watching Stranger Things, and I now firmly believe that demogorgons are responsible for taking our kids. 

[Katy]

This sort of thread makes my brain explode. I’ve decided my default reaction to anything that makes my brain explode is to declutter it.    I’ll come back and delete the personal story in 24 hours.

Please, if you are terrified of Taken or similar scenarios take the time to read about REAL human trafficking stories.  Do not click on crappy propaganda videos on YouTube where people are making money off of teaching you lies. Do not watch horror movies and pretend they are true.  Do not ignore the EXTREME racist undertones this propaganda exploits and exacerbates. I’d venture to say if you have the kind of life where you have the time to invest in this board you don’t have the kind of life where your child is likely to be prostituted.  Unfortunately child sexual abuse happens in many homes, always by people the adults in the home trust. 

[Lady Florida.]

15 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

Well, listen. I've been watching Stranger Things, and I now firmly believe that demogorgons are responsible for taking our kids. 

The other day ds was looking for something he brought from our old house. We moved in May 2020 and he still can't find it. He said, "I looked everywhere and can't find it. It's in the Upside Down." 😂

[catz]

Just so it's on the record, the producers of Taken have never said this was based on a true story.  It's a series of progressively mediocre to bad action movies with a weak plot.  Some guy was running around saying this was his daughter's story.  He got 21 years for wire fraud.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/327330

If you want to know what American sex trafficking victims more typically look like, I recommend the Epstein documentary on Netflix.  Also need to step away.  

 

[desertflower]

Hello,

This thread has been reported. 

Before I hide it, Katy go ahead and delete what you need to. 

What happens if one clicks on the youtube link Pen linked? 

[Selkie]

1 hour ago, Tanaqui said:

 

The people most likely to hurt a child are overwhelmingly that child's own parents, stepparents, or foster parents. The next largest group by far is other relatives and caregivers. Your children are not at risk from walking down the street or taking their bikes, because stranger danger isn't really real.

Do you understand the difference between truth and fiction?

As long as we're pointing out inaccuracies, it is absolutely untrue that "stranger danger isn't really real". Sure, fears about it may be overblown, but it is a fact that kids are abducted by strangers. 

[iamonlyone]

Side topic: If you would like to learn more facts about human trafficking or to support homes for those coming out of trafficking, you can do a Google search for "human trafficking housing support."

[Katy]

10 minutes ago, Selkie said:

As long as we're pointing out inaccuracies, it is absolutely untrue that "stranger danger isn't really real". Sure, fears about it may be overblown, but it is a fact that kids are abducted by strangers. 

Yes, women and children are (very rarely) kidnapped by strangers. But they aren’t then sold to an international cabal. They are raped and murdered immediately or imprisoned indefinitely by the same man. 

[Selkie]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

Yes, women and children are (very rarely) kidnapped by strangers. But they aren’t then sold to an international cabal. They are raped and murdered immediately or imprisoned indefinitely by the same man. 

Yes. My comment wasn't about trafficking, just about the statement that stranger abduction is not real.

[Ottakee]

1 hour ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

If you read my post you will see that it's not just outside caregivers. I was involved in my children's lives, we were a close family. My daughter was already in counseling for years before she finally disclosed the root source of her mental health issues.

CSA happens within the home and you'd be amazed at the ways abusers will find to cover it up. But your post goes to show exactly how deep the problem is...even people who say "we know it happens" refuse to believe it can actually happen in their own homes. 

So true.   Most abuse comes from someone close to the victim.

Hard to wrap your head around it happening in your world.....but it does....and even in your own homes and can be very well covered up.  It is heartbreaking.

[TCB]

32 minutes ago, desertflower said:

Hello,

This thread has been reported. 

Before I hide it, Katy go ahead and delete what you need to. 

What happens if one clicks on the youtube link Pen linked? 

Curious to know - if a thread is reported do you automatically shut it down or do you evaluate it? Are you able to say what the complaint was when you consequently have to shut it down?

[desertflower]

2 minutes ago, TCB said:

Curious to know - if a thread is reported do you automatically shut it down or do you evaluate it? Are you able to say what the complaint was when you consequently have to shut it down?

Oh sorry I wasn't clear.  Usually we just delete what needs to be deleted when threads are reported.

When I said before I hide it, usually means we are investigating it.  I just don't have time right now to figure out what to do with the report or I am not sure what to do and need to confer with the other moderators.  That is the reason why I usually hide a thread.  Hide it, talk to the other moderators, delete what needs to be delete or perhaps nothing needs to be deleted, then unhide it. 

[TCB]

1 minute ago, desertflower said:

Oh sorry I wasn't clear.  Usually we just delete what needs to be deleted when threads are reported.

When I said before I hide it, usually means we are investigating it.  I just don't have time right now to figure out what to do with the report or I am not sure what to do and need to confer with the other moderators.  That is the reason why I usually hide a thread.  Hide it, talk to the other moderators, delete what needs to be delete or perhaps nothing needs to be deleted, then unhide it. 

Thanks! Now I understand the process. Thanks for all you moderators do! Not an easy job!

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, desertflower said:

Hello,

This thread has been reported. 

Before I hide it, Katy go ahead and delete what you need to. 

What happens if one clicks on the youtube link Pen linked? 

To answer the question ... I have not clicked on any of the specific links, because they don’t have any identifying info.  Just incomprehensible numbers and letters, no description, and I don’t want to further the spread of misinformation by giving views to videos that are likely conspiracy theories. I don’t want my YouTube algorithm to suddenly start taking me (or my kids) down those sorts of rabbit holes. Clicking those links just fuels the fires (and wallets) of conspiracy theorists.

It’s a personal choice that I will not do anything to perpetuate propaganda-driven conspiracy theories by giving them any credence or reposting them.

Yes, I think human trafficking happens, is horrific and real. What I don’t think is real is putting these crimes at the feet of members of a particular political party, that there is an international cabal, that there is one charismatic leader working behind the scenes to defeat pedophiles, that the members of that one particular party do unspeakable things to children and babies, and I could go on and on.   I don’t know if those particular links share that view, but they are heading that direction.

I think posting those types of links and viewing them, and perpetuating their spread is irresponsible.  And I, personally, think that just ignoring them isn’t enough, that we have a responsibility to call out misinformation when we see it, even if it’s uncomfortable to do so.  

Now I’ve probably said way too much, so feel free to delete this post.  (Or maybe I will, eek!) I just noticed that no one had answered the question about what happens when one clicks the links.  Enough people here had viewed them for me to know that I don’t want to contribute to their viewership.

Thanks for reviewing so many threads!  It’s a lot of work that you do!

Edited February 24, 2021 by Spryte

[Tanaqui]

1 hour ago, Selkie said:

As long as we're pointing out inaccuracies, it is absolutely untrue that "stranger danger isn't really real". Sure, fears about it may be overblown, but it is a fact that kids are abducted by strangers. 

 

And it's a fact that people die entangled in their bedsheets every year, but that doesn't mean that bedsheet danger is a real threat either.

Quote

Yes. My comment wasn't about trafficking, just about the statement that stranger abduction is not real.

I didn't actually say that. You even quoted my text and bolded the pertinent part - I said that stranger *danger* isn't real, ie, the idea that there are creepers lurking in every bush and that every interaction with a stranger is fraught with danger and that children and women can't trust anybody ever and that the real harm comes from outside.

None of that is real or true. The real harm of violent crime, as always, is from people known to the victim.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Tanaqui

[ktgrok]

How about we focus on the trafficking we may be seeing and either ignoring or supporting in our own lives? Forced labor in restaurants, in door to door sales (those sketchy sales kids/teens who are supporting some weird agency you never heard of? May be trafficked.) Even nail salons. One reason I stopped going to one salon was seeing that any money given to a worker - one who didn't speak english at all - was then immediately handed over to a main person - tips and all. I researched and found that although not QUITE the same as trafficking, there is a lot of virtual slavery and indentured servant type stuff in the nail salon industry. 

And of course, where there are drugs, there is trafficking. Someone I know in a group admitted yesterday she was trafficked as a kid. By her mother. 

But all that it in plain sight, and it still gets avoided and ignored by most - cause it is easier to focus on imaginary underground cabals that we can't actually do anything about. Not getting our nails done, that would be inconvenient. Or inviting a kid who is selling "magazines" for a random non existant charity or a school that you know doesn't have a fundraiser now, into your home to check on them, and/or calling the police hotline to report it as possible trafficking, that takes more effort. And is uncomfortable. So we focus on the non existant stuff and reassure ourselves we can't do anything about it. 

[ktgrok]

Door to door sales and trafficking: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/jul/16/people-trafficking-door-to-door-sales-us-abuse-exploitation-polaris-report

Nail salons and trafficking: https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-42729302

Food service workers and forced labor: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/29/521971468/in-u-s-restaurants-bars-and-food-trucks-modern-slavery-persists

Agriculture and trafficking: https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/07/28/426888946/beyond-brothels-farms-and-fisheries-are-frontier-of-human-trafficking

But yeah, lets make videos about conspiracy theories rather than talk about stricter labor laws. Wait..no....a lot of the same people talking about how you are gong to be kidnapped at Walmart and sold to an arabian sheik for sex are the ones that don't believe in more regulation and are even in favor of removing child labor laws. Because the fantasy of their version of trafficking is a distraction to keep you from paying attention to the actual stuff. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ktgrok

[Soror]

As others mentioned focusing on the the outright falsehoods and the things that are exceedingly rare takes attention and focus from the real issues.

http://www.pollyklaas.org/about/national-child-kidnapping.html#:~:text=3% are abducted by non,hear about in the news.

 

Quote

 

99.8% of the children who go missing do come home.

• Nearly 90% of missing children have simply misunderstood directions or miscommunicated their plans, are lost, or have run away.
• 9% are kidnapped by a family member in a custody dispute.
• 3% are abducted by non-family members, usually during the commission of a crime such as robbery or sexual assault. The kidnapper is often someone the child knows.
• Only about 100 children (a fraction of 1%) are kidnapped each year in the stereotypical stranger abductions you hear about in the news.
• About half of these 100 children come home.

 

• People seem to thing (wrongly) that worrying about these things can't hurt, it is just being cautious but it does hurt. Not only does it hurt the efforts of those who are actually fighting trafficking as opposed to those in Q that are just using these for political gain, it hurts society as a whole. Our kids are living in a world that is more and more hyper vigilant, the stress is not good for them to be worrying there is someone out to kidnap at every corner. It doesn't help them that we continue passing laws that restrict their independence, so many things we could do as children they are no longer allowed to do. I worry about the children vulnerable to trafficking that are being ignored and hurt by the takeover of this issue by Q and their bogus claims. I worry about my own children picking up on this bs from other kid's parents, certain that all that Q puts out is real and thinks their kids are going to be kidnapped by random strangers at any moment.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Soror

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, desertflower said:

What happens if one clicks on the youtube link Pen linked? 

The last two are by a guy (I won't list his name here because I don't want google searches leading here) who pushes QAnon conspiracy theories about rampant pedophilia and trafficking among celebrities. Another is about satanic rituals and child abuse, which is presumably linked to support the QAnon claim that a satanic cabal of celebrities and powerful Democrats kidnap children for s*x and cannibalism. 

In other threads she has posted links to sites that claim vaccines cause autism, that the covid vaccine is "a eugenics program that includes genocide," pushes various QAnon conspiracies about Fauci and Gates, and includes stories like "The Satanic Roots to Modern Medicine: The Mark of the Beast." And she claimed that anyone who is in "denial" of these conspiracy theories and "unwilling to look" into the evidence is "morally complicit with evil." 

[Selkie]

24 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

 

And it's a fact that people die entangled in their bedsheets every year, but that doesn't mean that bedsheet danger is a real threat either.

I didn't actually say that. You even quoted my text and bolded the pertinent part - I said that stranger *danger* isn't real, ie, the idea that there are creepers lurking in every bush and that every interaction with a stranger is fraught with danger and that children and women can't trust anybody ever and that the real harm comes from outside.

None of that is real or true. The real harm of violent crime, as always, is from people known to the victim.

Tell that to the parents of kids who are abducted by strangers - about 350 per year in the U.S.

[SanDiegoMom]

@Pen  I don't post a lot but I have been on the boards for years and I have seen and learned a lot from your posts.  I agree with pp's that over the last few months your posts have been changing.  I think we are all worried about you.  Is there anyone you could reach out to in your irl circle for support?  

[historically accurate]

17 minutes ago, Selkie said:

Tell that to the parents of kids who are abducted by strangers - about 350 per year in the U.S.

While horrible and heartbreaking for those 350 families, there are approximately 74 million children in the US. 350 of 74 million is .000473%. It is amazingly rare. 

74 million in 2020: https://www.childstats.gov/AMERICASCHILDREN/tables/pop1.asp

FWIW, as for stranger danger, I taught my kids to look for a mom if they got lost. Find a mom with a stroller or a couple of young kids, and she will help you. I also taught them to look for a name tag in a store or at Disney to find an employee. 

[Drama Llama]

26 minutes ago, Soror said:

People seem to thing (wrongly) that worrying about these things can't hurt, it is just being cautious but it does hurt. Not only does it hurt the efforts of those who are actually fighting trafficking as opposed to those in Q that are just using these for political gain, it hurts society as a whole. Our kids are living in a world that is more and more hyper vigilant, the stress is not good for them to be worrying there is someone out to kidnap at every corner. It doesn't help them that we continue passing laws that restrict their independence, so many things we could do as children they are no longer allowed to do. I worry about the children vulnerable to trafficking that are being ignored and hurt by the takeover of this issue by Q and their bogus claims. I worry about my own children picking up on this bs from other kid's parents, certain that all that Q puts out is real and thinks their kids are going to be kidnapped by random strangers at any moment.

This.  It can't be emphasized enough.

Conspiracy theorists influenced people to vote for an administration that has put children in cages, and separated them from families, actions that dramatically increased the risk that these children will be abused.  

Conspiracy theorists influenced people to vote for an administration that has made it harder for women and children fleeing violence in their home countries to find safety in the US.  

Conspiracy theorists have diverted law enforcement resources that could be used to fight trafficking to fighting insurrection. 

A conspiracy theory motivated someone to fire a gun in a family establishment where children were playing, motivated by the desire to rescue kids from a non-existent basement.  

Anxiety about "stranger danger", leads people to support practices in public schools and in communities that reduce transparency and provide cover for child abusers.

There is enormous danger in these theories, including danger to children. 

[Selkie]

6 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

While horrible and heartbreaking for those 350 families, there are approximately 74 million children in the US. 350 of 74 million is .000473%. It is amazingly rare. 

74 million in 2020: https://www.childstats.gov/AMERICASCHILDREN/tables/pop1.asp

FWIW, as for stranger danger, I taught my kids to look for a mom if they got lost. Find a mom with a stroller or a couple of young kids, and she will help you. I also taught them to look for a name tag in a store or at Disney to find an employee. 

Rare, but very real - which was my point. Saying "stranger danger is not really real" is simply not true. Lots of things are rare but real, and I don't understand the impulse to downplay this one. To me, that's as foolish as overstating the child trafficking issue. Why not just be factual?

[rebcoola]

Pretty much everything has been said.  Trafficking is a real and terrible issue but it looks nothing like those videos they just sell fear.