DE yielding AA - transfer or first-year for college application?

[MAhomeschool]

If a high school student in their junior and senior years takes enough community college classes DE to get an associates degree, do they apply to four-year colleges as a transfer or as a first-year?  Thanks.

[Lori D.]

It depends on what the 4-year university allows. Check the university's policies.

Some allow the student to still come in as a freshman (yea! eligible for freshman scholarships!), and transfer many/most of those AA credits towards a Bachelor degree. Other universities require that students with an AA come in as a transfer student -- if that's the case, check to see if your student might be eligible for transfer scholarships... usually 1-time awards and for not as much as the renewable freshman scholarships, but every bit helps...

[Melissa B]

What state? In Florida, you apply as a freshman (first year). 

[BusyMom5]

It will depend,  but we found thar the 2 year degree required a few classes that don't transfer,  so decided to not worry with it and just focus on classes- the Covid happened and she didn't earn as many as planned anyway (didn't want to do science classes online).  

[Matryoshka]

4 hours ago, MAhomeschool said:

If a high school student in their junior and senior years takes enough community college classes DE to get an associates degree, do they apply to four-year colleges as a transfer or as a first-year?  Thanks.

You can do either; it depends on your goals. 

Are you in MA?  If you are,  and are at all interested in MassTransfer, there are some things to watch for.

[Swimmer1112]

It depends on the state and university. In California, you can apply as a freshman.

[MAhomeschool]

Thanks for all the replies. I am in MA, but the question is for a friend in AZ.  Follow up question: If you apply as a first year and transfer in more than a year's worth credits (or even two years of credits), will places let you graduate in  2.5 or 3 years?  I spotted checked a few schools that m family has engaged with, and one had a clear residency requirement (i.e., no getting out in under 4 years) and others said nothing or said 50% of your credits or two years of your credits had to be from that college (the one you would be getting a degree from. The other thing I saw was schools saying that kids coming in with substantial DE or AP/IB credit could get a master's in the four years (instead of a fifth) or could take time for extra co-op without delaying graduation.  I think the primary goal for this family will probably be trying to minimize years of tuition paid to get a degree.

[Swimmer1112]

My dd started UCSD with 60 semester units, she was a freshman with junior status. She finished her BS in computer Engineering in 2.5 years. She is now in their masters program, which is an additional year. So it will take her 3.5 years total to finish the BS/MS program, which normally takes 5 years. If they want to minimize the years at university, my suggestion is to target the schools they are interested in and make sure all DE class are transferable.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, MAhomeschool said:

Thanks for all the replies. I am in MA, but the question is for a friend in AZ.  Follow up question: If you apply as a first year and transfer in more than a year's worth credits (or even two years of credits), will places let you graduate in  2.5 or 3 years?  I spotted checked a few schools that m family has engaged with, and one had a clear residency requirement (i.e., no getting out in under 4 years) and others said nothing or said 50% of your credits or two years of your credits had to be from that college (the one you would be getting a degree from. The other thing I saw was schools saying that kids coming in with substantial DE or AP/IB credit could get a master's in the four years (instead of a fifth) or could take time for extra co-op without delaying graduation.  I think the primary goal for this family will probably be trying to minimize years of tuition paid to get a degree.

I know most about the MA system when you stay public.  Not sure how much would be exactly applicable to AZ.

I have a bunch of friends whose kids graduated high school with an AA and still entered as freshmen, but they were able to graduate early if they had enough credits.  The MA public universities require only 45 credits in-residence to graduate.  My kid who did a lot of DE credits and entered as a freshman but didn't quite get an AA could have graduated a year early but instead used the time to get dual degrees.

One thing that might take more time if you have a general AA but a more specific 4-year major is that you may have to take some foundational sequence classes you didn't take or weren't offered at the CC.  Private schools without transfer credit agreements may also not accept as many transferred credits, especially for major courses.

My youngest did a full AS during high school and decided to use MassTransfer rather than apply as a freshman.  This meant she didn't have to take the SATs at all, and was guaranteed not only to be accepted into any state university (she chose the flagship) but there are also a number of non-general AA/S degrees where with a certain minimum GPA you're also accepted into corresponding school and all the foundational classes transfer.  So dd was able to get into the super-selective Business school at the flagship in spite of rather average grades, and knocked a full two years off of her time there because all the foundational classes transferred.   Not sure if AZ has any similar programs, but it might be something to look into...

Edited February 21, 2021 by Matryoshka

[Lori D.]

2 hours ago, MAhomeschool said:

Thanks for all the replies. I am in MA, but the question is for a friend in AZ...

Is the friend doing an AA in AZ and then transferring to an AZ university? Or going out of state? Again, it's important for your friend to check the specific policies at the specific schools involved.
 

2 hours ago, MAhomeschool said:

... If you apply as a first year and transfer in more than a year's worth credits (or even two years of credits), will places let you graduate in  2.5 or 3 years?

Yes. If the university allows a student with an AA (OR with a lot of dual enrollment credits) to come in as a freshman), AND accepts those credits towards the university's degree program (rather than as "elective" credits), then yes, a student can graduate in less than 4 years.

However... there are obviously exceptions:
- non-acceptance of transfer credits; if the university does not accept enough of the community college credits as counting towards the degree, which would mean no shortening of time at the university
- if university policies require the student to attend AT the university for all 4 years, regardless of degree major
- if scheduling or availability of required classes prohibits the ability to graduate earlier than 4 years, in spite of the transfer of multiple credits (or an AA degree); if the degree major is something like Engineering, Architecture, or Medical, where there is a chain of pre-requisite courses one after another, or core concentration courses are only scheduled in one semester in the year, that can force the student to attend all 4 years due to scheduling or availability of courses
 

2 hours ago, MAhomeschool said:

... I spotted checked a few schools that m family has engaged with, and one had a clear residency requirement (i.e., no getting out in under 4 years) and others said nothing or said 50% of your credits or two years of your credits had to be from that college (the one you would be getting a degree from...

That's a bit more stringent than some I've seen, but yes, I've seen that before, too, that a certain # of credits have to come from the degree-granting university AND that all of the credits from the last semester, or the last year -- so the last 30 credits -- entirely have to be earned at the degree-granting university.

Again, you have to research and know exactly what the policies are of the dual enrollment school AND the university. 

It really helps if there is an articulation agreement between the community college and the university, so you know right away what courses will transfer as credit towards the desired degree, and which will transfer as "electives" (that do NOTHING towards a degree). And also that streamlines the process so you aren't taking too MANY credits and go over the the possible credit transfer limit of what the university will accept from dual enrollment or in transfer. (That maximum credit transfer # usually includes the total of ALL credits earned from: AP + CLEP + DE.)

2 hours ago, MAhomeschool said:

...The other thing I saw was schools saying that kids coming in with substantial DE or AP/IB credit could get a master's in the four years (instead of a fifth) or could take time for extra co-op without delaying graduation.  I think the primary goal for this family will probably be trying to minimize years of tuition paid to get a degree.

Some universities offer a 5-year program that results in a Bachelor & Master degree. This works because many of the classes taken in the senior year work towards the Bachelor AND toward a Master's degree, so only 1 year, not 2 years, are needed for the Master's degree.

I would guess that if the university this family is interested in offers this type of 5-year-2-degree program, AND accepts a large number of transfer credits from dual enrollment (or an AA degree), then yes, I could see that the student could earn both a Bachelor's degree and a Master's degree in 4 years.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Lori D.

[Lori D.]

1 hour ago, MAhomeschool said:

...the question is for a friend in AZ...

...I think the primary goal for this family will probably be trying to minimize years of tuition paid to get a degree.

If the family is planning on DE at an AZ community college, AND is planning on attending an AZ university, the two major community college systems have articulation agreements with the 3 major public universities. As a result, a student can earn the AA degree 

credit transfer policies:
- Arizona State University (Phoenix valley) -- unlimited credit transfer BUT no more than 64 credits apply towards Bachelor degree requirements
- University of Arizona = unlimited credit transfer BUT no more than 64 credits apply towards Bachelor degree requirements
- Northern Arizona University (Flagstaff) -- accepts up to 64 transfer credit units from a combination of community college credits, prior learning assessment credit, and the American Council on Education (ACE); for very specific degrees, NAU accepts up to 90 transfer credit hours

freshman vs. transfer student status:
- Arizona State University (Phoenix valley) -- student earning an AA while still in high school comes in with freshman eligibility for scholarships
- University of Arizona (Tucson) -- stated policies are for high school graduates, NOT high school students who did a large amount of DE or earned an AA as DE while a high school student -- you will probably have to discuss with a UA admissions officer to verify that the student comes in the freshman eligibility for scholarships
- Northern Arizona University (Flagstaff) -- considered a freshman if you will graduate high school within one year, have earned fewer than 12 college credits since graduating from high school, or are dual-enrolled but have not yet graduated from high school.
 

1 hour ago, MAhomeschool said:

...I think the primary goal for this family will probably be trying to minimize years of tuition paid to get a degree.

If family finances are important to being able to get the degree, I urge this family to read up on financial aid, scholarships, and alternatives for funding college. See the very help past threads linked on PAGE 3 of the big pinned thread "College Motherlode" at the top of the College Board.

Here are a few of those linked past threads that are in that pinned "Motherlode" thread to get you started:

Alternative ideas for funding college
s/o Cautionary Tale/high college costs — a brainstorm $$ ideas thread!
How are YOU managing to pay for college? (lots of real-life creative ideas) 
College as cheap as possible: need advice
College breaking the piggy bank? (how are homeschoolers affording college?)

How Financial Aid works
Understanding financial aid (great explanations and info) 
Can someone please walk me through how financial aid works in the USA 
I think I need help with guidance counseling, I.e., I’m clueless (great intro info on financial aid + other topics) 

 

Scholarships/Scholarship Search Process
Preparing for college: what scholarships/grants to apply for? (info on search process, inside vs outside scholarships) 
Scholarships (search process, inside vs outside scholarships; explanation of Financial Aid equation: COA-EFC=Need) 
High scholarship earners - which test and at which grade did your high schooler take? (discussion of the specific tests morphed into a financial aid discussion)
What colleges give most merit scholarships? (ties into discussion of college search process + how financial aid works) — July 12 2017, Homeschoolmom3
Questions about scholarships (how do you know if you have a good chance of landing one at a specific school? what could we have done differently?) 

[Farrar]

Adding to Lori's excellent advice that sometimes it can be cheaper to enter as a freshman and spend longer getting the degree - IF you get the right kind of aid and scholarships - and those are often not available to transfer students on the same level. So a student entering as a junior transfer has two years of paying, let's say 70 or 80% of sticker price. That's cheaper than four years. But it might not be as cheap as a student entering as a freshman with a large number of credits and doing 3 years paying 20 or 30% of sticker price at the same school because they got such a good deal. And that extra time might get them a better shot at a better master's program or better aid for the masters program.

But that's just... an example. There's a growing number of transfer scholarships. Aid can be hard to fully predict. Depends on the student, the university, etc. etc. etc. Just bringing up another way to frame it.

[stripe]

Also some selective schools have a fairly high admission rate for transfer students versus a really low one for freshman. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by stripe

[MAhomeschool]

Wow, thank you all so much, especially Lori D for doing the research on AZ stuff and pointing me to threads on financing.  Her family's path and current context is so completely different than our family's path and context it was hard to even think what the relevant questions might be.  You all have been amazing!