Preparation: Your responsibility?

[aggie96]

23 minutes ago, Sdel said:

I’m jealous.  I just found out my aunt has had full time power at the farm 2 minutes from my house since yesterday afternoon.  I suspect it has has something to do with the city utility water well located on site and they are desperate to keep it on line with all the burst water lines, but still, jealous.

My brother/sis-in-law had utilities throughout most of this too. Just lost them today. They live 20 minutes north of me in the area, but it would have required the iditarod to get there.

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

As for "snow" gear in the South- don't buy it!  Buy waterproof breathable rain gear instead.  Include pants and a coat, both big enough to put over layers.  Then put fleece underneath.  You can probably buy a few layers of fleece clothing on clearance this time of year.  Wool is more expensive, but would be even better because it's breathable and warm even when wet.  A layer of long underwear (synthetic or wool), a layer of fleece jacket & pants (not cotton), and a layer of rain gear over some wool socks and rain boots and you MIGHT be warmer than some of the kids playing in snow in the North.

That's the kind of thing you can get use of year round.  Fleece long underwear make comfy winter pajamas, and they sell them at Walmart and Amazon. Buy black so the handmedowns fit every gender.  Fleece pants are comfy and breathable even on Spring & Fall evenings when you've been in the sun all day but are starting to get a chill as darkness falls. Rain gear is great for summer (assuming it is breathable and not plastic). Layered together is good not just for emergency situations or playing in snow, it's great for backpacking too.

“The South” is a big and variable place, though! Houston is very different from my home in middle TN. Your suggestions would work great here for all but the coldest of cold snaps, but might not work as well in Houston or the north GA mountains. 
 

Also, ski hats and good gloves are always worth having, even if you only use them once in five years! 

[Tanaqui]

Quote

Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I’m very surprised that folks are hopeful that through planning, cities and states can prevent fallout from catastrophic conditions. 🤷‍♀️

 

Skipping to the bottom, but extreme weather events are increasing due to climate change. Natural disasters become disasters due to poor infrastructure, both physical and social. Neither of these things can - or should! - be solved by individuals. They require group effort, and the most efficient way to do that is with the government.

[Sdel]

2 minutes ago, aggie96 said:

My brother/sis-in-law had utilities throughout most of this too. Just lost them today. They live 20 minutes north of me in the area, but it would have required the iditarod to get there.

We just got our power back up after 30 minutes after very consistent 2 down 1 up cycle.  I’m afraid that means the city utility water well on our other property next door to our house has become critical infrastructure now that the water mains are thawing and bursting open and they are having system wide pressure problems.

[Arcadia]

34 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

“The South” is a big and variable place, though! Houston is very different from my home in middle TN. Your suggestions would work great here for all but the coldest of cold snaps, but might not work as well in Houston or the north GA mountains. 
 

Also, ski hats and good gloves are always worth having, even if you only use them once in five years! 

I am learning some interesting geography of Texas in this thread. My husband’s paternal cousin’s family is outstation in Texas on a L1 visa. They are doing okay and they have ski attire. They have an only child so it is not that expensive to buy yearly for one child. 

[Tree Frog]

5 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

looking at solar panels before the pandemic and will definitely have them now

When you do this, check the regs. In our area, you're not allowed to harness the energy for your house until you've had the panels for a certain number of years. We have many houses in our neighborhood with solar panels who also are without electricity because they're not allowed to hook up batteries.

[historically accurate]

15 minutes ago, Wilrunner3 said:

When you do this, check the regs. In our area, you're not allowed to harness the energy for your house until you've had the panels for a certain number of years. We have many houses in our neighborhood with solar panels who also are without electricity because they're not allowed to hook up batteries.

What is the reasoning behind that? 

[Farrar]

It's really, really hard to prepare for things that happen at random every two decades or less. 

If that's not what government is for, I don't even know.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Farrar

[Arcadia]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

It's really, really hard to prepare for things that happen at random every two decades or less. 

If that's not what government is for, I don't even know.

Sometimes I think the various state governments expects FEMA to clear up the mess.

https://www.fema.gov/disaster/3554

[Katy]

1 hour ago, historically accurate said:

What is the reasoning behind that? 

It’s probably for the same reason you’re supposed to use a breaker to shut off the outside power if you use a generator. So the power doesn’t kill someone working on a line. 

[Carol in Cal.]

11 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

We also have a well with an electric pump. But we mainly use it for livestock. My dh has a plan of putting solar panels on the roof of our barn to generate power for the well pump. And over the last few days we were tossing around ideas for outdoor wood burner vs. gas logs, vs. wood stove. I think we're probably going to go for woodstove. The outdoor wood burner would require power to circulate the warm air in the house, so that really wouldn't be effective in a no power emergency. Plus it would have been 12 thousand dollars! which made me gasp. It'll be cheaper and more useful to just put the woodstove in the house. 

At our cabin we have central propane furnace heat, and also a propane heat stove that works even when the electricity is out.  So when we got the place I called up the propane company and got a 500 gallon tank (typical is 250) and set us up with a subscription so that it is topped off quite often.  We also have a generator—you guessed it, propane also.

This drives me absolutely nuts.  I HATE being so dependent on propane.

So I looked into solar, and basically we don’t have enough sun for long enough each day to make it work for us.  

I wanted the outdoor wood burner badly, since we already have central heat and wood is cheap and abundant there, so installation would not be difficult and it would save us from being SO dependent.  But those burners are illegal here.  And if we put in a wood stove we would almost certainly lose our homeowners’ insurance and have to go onto the Fair Plan, which is limited and expensive.  So we don’t actually have any truly off the grid heating options.  It’s very concerning, but there isn’t anything I can figure out to do to build in the extra margin that I want.  If propane prices doubled, or if propane deliveries faltered, we would be completely screwed.  

In a real emergency, though, one that looked like it would be lengthy, we would informally get neighbors as houseguests so that we could all use the same propane, and move from house to house as supplies were used up.  

[Laura Corin]

16 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Even in a cold area, a traditional fireplace doesn't help you very much.  You end up losing heat in the rest of the house so you can have ambiance in one room.  Unless you convert to gas or have a wood or pellet insert, a fireplace isn't all that helpful in freezing weather.

Yes.  We had a wood stove in our last house and inherited an open fire in this.  If you stand right by the fire it's a bit warm, but it doesn't radiate heat like the wood stove.

We are considering a fake wood stove for this house: the indoor particulate levels for fires/stoves are alarming.  Unlike at our previous house, we have piped gas to power it.  I am a bit wary of losing that sole non-grid heating source, however.

[Farrar]

If we ever lost power in the cold for several days, we would be so screwed. We rely on gas so if the gas lines froze, I can't imagine what we'd do. No one here has a tank - I don't think there's any way to legally set one up. It's the middle of the city. We could barely find a spot on our property where the A/C could legally go because it has to be a certain distance from the property lines, but it's a rowhouse, so the lines are really close in every direction.

Essentially, the government has two options - take away the codes, make it a free for all so that people can do whatever they want on their tiny plot with no regard to neighbors or dangers and make sure we all know if we're dying, we're on our own like that mayor in Texas - or work to ensure the safety of the grid. I know what kind of city I want to live in. I mean, y'all might feel differently.

[Katy]

14 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I'm trying to think if I've ever seen a wool item outside of a specific camping supply store here. I don't think so. I used to have a pair of wool socks, not 100 percent sure I still have them, but I bought them on Amazon for a camping trip. 

I only saw them at outdoor stores and the kind of feed stores that are large enough to carry western clothing when I lived there.  If you’re going to order online Smartwool hiking socks are a good option for teens & adults. They’re a mixture of synthetic & merino wool that aren’t itchy. And Amazon carries knockoffs in children’s sizes. 

[fairfarmhand]

46 minutes ago, Farrar said:

If we ever lost power in the cold for several days, we would be so screwed. We rely on gas so if the gas lines froze, I can't imagine what we'd do. No one here has a tank - I don't think there's any way to legally set one up. It's the middle of the city. We could barely find a spot on our property where the A/C could legally go because it has to be a certain distance from the property lines, but it's a rowhouse, so the lines are really close in every direction.

Essentially, the government has two options - take away the codes, make it a free for all so that people can do whatever they want on their tiny plot with no regard to neighbors or dangers and make sure we all know if we're dying, we're on our own like that mayor in Texas - or work to ensure the safety of the grid. I know what kind of city I want to live in. I mean, y'all might feel differently.

Can you bury one in the backyard? My dh wanted to do that. No idea if it’s legal or possible.

[Sneezyone]

About fifteen years ago there was a major ice storm that knocked out power in AR. My mom, fortunately, had a wood burning fireplace so we all slept in her big/open living room (sactional) with the FP going. Since it was cold, we put the fridge food in coolers on the back deck. We also had some firewood and a grill. We had candles, blankets, flashlights, and used bathtub water for flushing toilets. We baked potatoes on the fireplace hearth and roasted weenies with fondue skewers, lol. my kids thought it was a grand adventure but it was only three days or so.

I’m sure my family could tough it out for a week or two like that with our regular supplies but we don’t have a wood burning FP in our current house. We sometimes toy with the idea of getting a generator. All of our homes have been on power grids with fire stations or critical municipal buildings tho so we’ve never lost power for more than a day.

Having lots of things around me causes me anxiety. I don’t like lots of stuff. I would never be able to be a prepper for that reason alone.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Sneezyone

[lauraw4321]

We live in an area prone to tornadoes. We have supplies to go at least 3 weeks without food or power. We lived in the Seattle area for awhile. I researched what was recommended and prepped appropriately. Kids are required to have emergency supplies at school. The reason we had N95 masks and kid masks is because they were recommended because of volcano risk. In general folks both places (Seattle, Huntsville) who have means tend to be prepared for at least the most likely emergencies and for a reasonable length of time. In Seattle we even had neighborhood meetings once a year so people met their neighbors and discussed emergency planning. We lived on an island in Seattle, so it was very possible we would be cut off for days or weeks, so prepping was crucial. 

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

We live in an area prone to tornadoes. We have supplies to go at least 3 weeks without food or power. We lived in the Seattle area for awhile. I researched what was recommended and prepped appropriately. Kids are required to have emergency supplies at school. The reason we had N95 masks and kid masks is because they were recommended because of volcano risk. In general folks both places (Seattle, Huntsville) who have means tend to be prepared for at least the most likely emergencies and for a reasonable length of time. In Seattle we even had neighborhood meetings once a year so people met their neighbors and discussed emergency planning. We lived on an island in Seattle, so it was very possible we would be cut off for days or weeks, so prepping was crucial. 

Yes, and you were prepared partly because you knew what was advised. In this scenario, it sounds like people were not properly advised. 

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, ktgrok said:

Yes, and you were prepared partly because you knew what was advised. In this scenario, it sounds like people were not properly advised. 

Texas has had rolling blackouts from cold weather before. This is certainly an extreme situation, and much of it seems to be caused by government mismanagement. 

[Farrar]

35 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Can you bury one in the backyard? My dh wanted to do that. No idea if it’s legal or possible.

I can't imagine it is. I mean, maybe? You have to understand though - the yard is the size of a living room. And our yard is bigger than some. We have a parking space behind it, which is quite a commodity. 

[ktgrok]

14 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

Texas has had rolling blackouts from cold weather before. This is certainly an extreme situation, and much of it seems to be caused by government mismanagement. 

Right, and it seems most were preparing for rolling blackouts again, no full on loss of power and water. And agree, this shows a lack of imagination by government and power companies. Or disregard for known possibilities. 

[RegGuheert]

39 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

And agree, this shows a lack of imagination by government and power companies. Or disregard for known possibilities. 

It's the second one.  It is clear that they were warned.

[skimomma]

We rarely lose power so we are very lucky.  We live in a very high snow/ice/cold region and our exterior-wall pipes can freeze within hours of losing power/heat.  We have a protocol, like everyone else, on how to store water in the tub, drain the lines, and keep a drain going.  We have no back-up heat at all.  We have only lost power overnight (in winter) once.  We have plenty of cold weather clothing.  What saved us was setting up our small backpacking tent in the living room to sleep in.  That sounds dumb but it traps body heat.  Between that a many blankets, we were actually warmer than we are on a normal night, if not a little cramped.  Even a make-shift blanket "fort" and a closely supervised candle or two (when awake only!) would help.  Just a tip in case anyone can use it.

 

[City Mouse]

I’m not sure I should let this secret out, but I guess I will share.

When I lived in Houston, the best place Ifound to buy true cold weather gear was REI. I think they were oriented toward those shopping for ski trips out of state. I would go every spring after ski season was over and pick up some great deals. Even after I moved away, I would hit REI any time I went back to visit my parents. I got a Gortex parka 10 years ago for around $20 thatI still wear today. When buying stuff for the kids, I did have to be willing to buy a size up (or 2 or 3 sizes) and store the gear for awhile, but it was worth it to me to get my kid a $150 coat for under $20. 
There is a much higher demand for old weather gear where I live now, so I don’t find such good deals at the REI stores here.

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Yes.  We had a wood stove in our last house and inherited an open fire in this.  If you stand right by the fire it's a bit warm, but it doesn't radiate heat like the wood stove.

We are considering a fake wood stove for this house: the indoor particulate levels for fires/stoves are alarming.  Unlike at our previous house, we have piped gas to power it.  I am a bit wary of losing that sole non-grid heating source, however.

I've been putting off this very decision for years.  We have gas heat, so we could convert to a gas fireplace.  A wood or pellet stove would take us more off-grid.  It seems like we'd be paying 5 grand no matter which option we choose, so I've never actually pulled the trigger on that one.  It's a job to do in the summer time and apparently Summer Panda doesn't care about Winter Panda's problems.

[Carrie12345]

11 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I've been putting off this very decision for years.  We have gas heat, so we could convert to a gas fireplace.  A wood or pellet stove would take us more off-grid.  It seems like we'd be paying 5 grand no matter which option we choose, so I've never actually pulled the trigger on that one.  It's a job to do in the summer time and apparently Summer Panda doesn't care about Winter Panda's problems.

I have always wanted a full, free-standing wood stove, but our layout can’t accommodate one. When I discovered low profile insert replacements (which eliminate a cook surface but beggars can’t be choosers) we were already preparing to house hunt, so that didn’t happen. Sigh.

Next house either has to have one or be convertible. Logs, not pellets for us, because I don’t want to be dependent on supply. We can get cords of seasoned wood delivered for fair prices and have access to plenty of trees we can cut and split.

 

I did see some portable solar generator systems that appear to be able to run a space heater. Not cheap, and probably not helpful for saving pipes,but sufficient to save lives and also charge important items. 

[TheReader]

21 hours ago, ktgrok said:

There is also an intersection where leadership/government have a responsibility to help and guide individuals in their preparation. 

Was there advance warning/preparation guidance on HOW to prepare for this? Specifically how much water to have on hand, ways to stay warm without power, what to do about pipes, where to go if you wouldn't be safe at home, transportation to warming shelters for those without a way to get there, a waiver on early refill prohibitions for medication, etc? 

 

so, chiming in now from Houston, where we just got power/internet back (we went 50 of 60 hours w/o power from Mon morning to Weds night) -- the power companies emailed on I think Saturday night saying to consider lowering thermostats to 68 or maybe 65 in order to not overburden the system. They suggested not running heavy appliances. 

News crews were circulating info on how to prep the pipes - but there was drastically contrasting/conflicting info on that.  Drip faucets at a rate of 1 drip per second. Drip faucets at a rate of 5 drips per minute. Run a steady stream through the faucets, because a drip is not enough. Open the cabinet doors to let the heat reach the pipes. Do this for all faucets. Only do this for faucets adjacent to an exterior wall. Shut off the water main if possible and drain the faucets, nothing else will be safe/sufficient. Wrap the outdoor pipes and any other prep is overkill.   -- ALL of that came from various "legitimate" sources, so finding what to do was tricky. And varied by who gives your water -- the city of Houston, on about day 3 of this (I think on Tuesday...?) said that for their system, dripping faucets was too taxing on the system and to stop doing that.  

ALL of the news reports prior about the possibility of losing power focused on ice on the lines....it was all reported as tied to ice accumulation. So those in areas predicting less than 1/4" of ice accumulation felt they were safe from a power outage. Or, those w/underground lines (like me) felt they were safe from a power outage. Especially those like me who meet both of those criteria -- the "system may be overtaxed" was NOT publicized until it was far too late. "rolling blackouts" weren't even mentioned (and not something I've ever experienced in my 45 yrs in TX) until they started Sunday night sometime. 

Also, the forecast changed daily. So, the prep we did re: food was for not being able to drive safely on Mon/Tues, *maybe* Weds. Our area was predicted to be fine for driving after that. So food stock, etc.,.....most people only prepped for a few days of not being able to grocery shop. 

20 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I can say that here in Florida, and I assume it is similar in Texas, MOST single family homes don't have a fireplace. It's unusual, and for looks, not heat. Honestly, they are mainly a place to hang stockings, so not bothered with in most homes. 

And many homes are built with super high cathedral ceilings, which lets heat rise up there when it is hot, but would make staying warm very difficult. Again, betting similar stuff in Texas. 

Yes, same. Also, in our neighborhood at least, the gas fireplaces (not wood burning, not even an option) are electric light -- one neighbor figured out/found where you can use batteries to light it/turn it on in an emergency and shared pics in our FB group for those who had them. They do report it was keeping that part of the house warm, but we didn't spring for that, so I have no idea. 

20 hours ago, Arcadia said:

@Dreamergal charcoal stove can be a portable source of warmth, similar to a small campfire. I have basically lived in a high rise (24th floor) with no fireplace most of my life. We just layer like we are going to play snow and stay put in the most insulated room in the house. My warmest room currently is actually the kitchen because it has no windows.

Some of my condo neighbors have barbecue grills that run off propane tanks in their patios. Our winter is mild so using those grills in the winter during a gas and power outage is possible.

Our PG&E (Pacific Gas & Electricity) has a bad reputation anyway so it is better to be prepared for power and gas outages.

Portable heat *outside only* though. you cannot safely burn a charcoal grill inside the house. 

1 hour ago, lauraw4321 said:

Texas has had rolling blackouts from cold weather before. This is certainly an extreme situation, and much of it seems to be caused by government mismanagement. 

In my 45 yrs of living in Houston, we have never in my life ever had rolling blackouts before. Ever. It's not something that was even mentioned in this instance until Sunday night when it was happening, and it was first stated that it would be 15-45 mins off at a time, max, and everyone would take turns, etc.......

When our power went off Monday morning, we originally thought, okay, it's our turn. And then it didn't come back until midnight, went off again at 9 or 10 am on Tuesday, and did not return until 7 pm on Weds. 

We had prepped as best we could, and we were extremely fortunate -- we have gas for cooking. We did sort through all of the info on pipes and dripped ours at about 5-10 drips/minute, with cabinets open, on the exterior walls (and we have the PEX flexible plumbing which helped), and so far so good. We  have a deep freeze, and that has stayed good. We have camping gear, so we put our sleeping bags/fleece liners on the beds and never slept cold. 

But our grocery stores also didn't have power, so restocking was not really possible for the most part. We found a grocery on Weds that had some canned goods (we picked up a restock for us and a neighbor). No bread (we had plenty, b/c of the deep freeze, but with the humidity here you cannot stockpile bread in the pantry or it will mold). No refrigerated items. 

Gas stations were down b/c of no power, and the run on gas b/c of the folks with generators. 

Places were cash only, b/c of no power, which not everyone has on hand at all times. 

We had gas in our car, b/c we'd heard (from a friend on FB, not any official source) to keep the tank at least half full so as not to get ice in the tank from condensation. Other neighbors hadn't heard that, and nearly ran out of gas in looking for provisions, b/c all the gas stations near us were w/o power, so nowhere to gas up. 

We had charged DH's phone charging brick thing, so we could charge our phones; other neighbors didn't have those, and were charging in their car. Or  neighbors w/generators were offering people to come charge as needed. 

 

[lauraw4321]

1 minute ago, TheReader said:

so, chiming in now from Houston, where we just got power/internet back (we went 50 of 60 hours w/o power from Mon morning to Weds night) -- the power companies emailed on I think Saturday night saying to consider lowering thermostats to 68 or maybe 65 in order to not overburden the system. They suggested not running heavy appliances. 

News crews were circulating info on how to prep the pipes - but there was drastically contrasting/conflicting info on that.  Drip faucets at a rate of 1 drip per second. Drip faucets at a rate of 5 drips per minute. Run a steady stream through the faucets, because a drip is not enough. Open the cabinet doors to let the heat reach the pipes. Do this for all faucets. Only do this for faucets adjacent to an exterior wall. Shut off the water main if possible and drain the faucets, nothing else will be safe/sufficient. Wrap the outdoor pipes and any other prep is overkill.   -- ALL of that came from various "legitimate" sources, so finding what to do was tricky. And varied by who gives your water -- the city of Houston, on about day 3 of this (I think on Tuesday...?) said that for their system, dripping faucets was too taxing on the system and to stop doing that.  

ALL of the news reports prior about the possibility of losing power focused on ice on the lines....it was all reported as tied to ice accumulation. So those in areas predicting less than 1/4" of ice accumulation felt they were safe from a power outage. Or, those w/underground lines (like me) felt they were safe from a power outage. Especially those like me who meet both of those criteria -- the "system may be overtaxed" was NOT publicized until it was far too late. "rolling blackouts" weren't even mentioned (and not something I've ever experienced in my 45 yrs in TX) until they started Sunday night sometime. 

Also, the forecast changed daily. So, the prep we did re: food was for not being able to drive safely on Mon/Tues, *maybe* Weds. Our area was predicted to be fine for driving after that. So food stock, etc.,.....most people only prepped for a few days of not being able to grocery shop. 

Yes, same. Also, in our neighborhood at least, the gas fireplaces (not wood burning, not even an option) are electric light -- one neighbor figured out/found where you can use batteries to light it/turn it on in an emergency and shared pics in our FB group for those who had them. They do report it was keeping that part of the house warm, but we didn't spring for that, so I have no idea. 

Portable heat *outside only* though. you cannot safely burn a charcoal grill inside the house. 

In my 45 yrs of living in Houston, we have never in my life ever had rolling blackouts before. Ever. It's not something that was even mentioned in this instance until Sunday night when it was happening, and it was first stated that it would be 15-45 mins off at a time, max, and everyone would take turns, etc.......

When our power went off Monday morning, we originally thought, okay, it's our turn. And then it didn't come back until midnight, went off again at 9 or 10 am on Tuesday, and did not return until 7 pm on Weds. 

We had prepped as best we could, and we were extremely fortunate -- we have gas for cooking. We did sort through all of the info on pipes and dripped ours at about 5-10 drips/minute, with cabinets open, on the exterior walls (and we have the PEX flexible plumbing which helped), and so far so good. We  have a deep freeze, and that has stayed good. We have camping gear, so we put our sleeping bags/fleece liners on the beds and never slept cold. 

But our grocery stores also didn't have power, so restocking was not really possible for the most part. We found a grocery on Weds that had some canned goods (we picked up a restock for us and a neighbor). No bread (we had plenty, b/c of the deep freeze, but with the humidity here you cannot stockpile bread in the pantry or it will mold). No refrigerated items. 

Gas stations were down b/c of no power, and the run on gas b/c of the folks with generators. 

Places were cash only, b/c of no power, which not everyone has on hand at all times. 

We had gas in our car, b/c we'd heard (from a friend on FB, not any official source) to keep the tank at least half full so as not to get ice in the tank from condensation. Other neighbors hadn't heard that, and nearly ran out of gas in looking for provisions, b/c all the gas stations near us were w/o power, so nowhere to gas up. 

We had charged DH's phone charging brick thing, so we could charge our phones; other neighbors didn't have those, and were charging in their car. Or  neighbors w/generators were offering people to come charge as needed. 

 

It sounds like you were generally well-prepared. We had a massive tornado outbreak one year that knocked out our power station. That meant no electricity for 7 days. The weather was fortunately very mild. But since then, I keep the gas tanks full. I also keep cash on hand.  A week without grocery stores should be manageable for anyone not impoverished. Dealing with very cold and no power I understand is unexpected in TX and I understand not being prepared. While there may not have been blackouts in Houston, there were blackouts in 2011 and 2006 caused by cold weather, so it certainly isn't unforeseeable. 

Again, I absolutely think the vast majority of the problem is the failure of the government. But I think that individuals should recognize that the government is woefully under-funded and mismanaged in many places and do what they can to be self-reliant.

[TheReader]

Okay, rambling a bit....I'll try to streamline. 

We went 50 of 60 hours w/o power. I already mentioned up thread what was told/shared/predicted -- we prepped for "not being able to drive on ice" because that's what all the predictions for our area indicated. 

In the days prior to this (I'm in a Houston suburb), the predictions were that those who accumulated more than 1/4" of ice would face power outages, which would impact above-ground power lines. Where I live, we were not predicted to have that much ice, and our power is underground, so we had zero anticipation of losing power at our place. In all of the hurricanes, we've not lost power (through all of Harvey, and all those since, we never had an interruption of any services at all).  So that is not what we prepped for. 

I think there IS a call for personal responsibility, for sure. Absolutely. We prepared as best we could for the conditions we were told to expect. We knew we would be stuck at home, because no one expects the gov't of the Houston/Gulf Coast area to have means to deal with ice on the roads. We prepped for that. 

We sorted through all of the conflicting information on the pipes, did extra research ourselves, and figured out a plan to keep our pipes safe. We are likely fortunate in that our house has the PEX flexible plumbing and is far less prone to freezing/busting accordingly.  I know a lot of folks who wrapped pipes, dripped faucets, and still ended up with frozen pipes. 

Some of *that* is because the cities lost power and couldn't maintain the water facilities....and *that* is the side where the gov't has to prep as well. Whoever, wherever, messed that up (I am out of the loop on the news b/c, no power/internet since Monday...), whatever failures led to the mess that happened here with the power grid.....that definitely contributed to the water failures, etc. 

And yes, this was predicted, and I'm not by any stretch letting off the hook whoever all screwed up with Ercot. But also our forecast has been changing daily. When the first snowflakes were falling at my house, the weather forecast was at that moment saying it would still be a few hours before the freezing rain turned into snow. The temps overnight kept being colder than the predictions. When this started, we were supposed to be back at 70* by this coming Sunday, and supposed to only have a hard freeze (pipe threatening) on Mon/Tues. Now, we're facing another hard freeze on Thurs/Fri nights, and won't be up to 70* until next Tuesday....we'll still be in the 40s on Sunday. 

Bottom line....(and I'm still thawing out, so be nice to me, please, if you need to disagree....)....it takes all of us. The individual. Community -- our neighborhood is amazing for that, and I'm beyond grateful. Everyone here was helping everyone else. But yes, also gov't. Not just in prepping their infrastructure (and yes, it makes sense to do the most prep for the disasters you always get, not the once or twice in a lifetime stuff), but in communicating to folks how to best prep for the once in a lifetime stuff. 

 

[TheReader]

6 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

It sounds like you were generally well-prepared. We had a massive tornado outbreak one year that knocked out our power station. That meant no electricity for 7 days. The weather was fortunately very mild. But since then, I keep the gas tanks full. I also keep cash on hand.  A week without grocery stores should be manageable for anyone not impoverished. Dealing with very cold and no power I understand is unexpected in TX and I understand not being prepared. While there may not have been blackouts in Houston, there were blackouts in 2011 and 2006 caused by cold weather, so it certainly isn't unforeseeable. 

Again, I absolutely think the vast majority of the problem is the failure of the government. But I think that individuals should recognize that the government is woefully under-funded and mismanaged in many places and do what they can to be self-reliant.

We were, yes. Thankfully. 

[HS Mom in NC]

There are cultural mindsets that need addressing, along with government policies that support people; particularly those with limited resources. Those changes need to be advocated from places of worship, political leaders of all kinds, social groups, celebrities, etc.

Let's remember that it's generally advised people have at least a $1,000 emergency fund and 3-6 months of expenses saved up.  Of the people who could do that if they chose to live frugally, most don't. (BTDT, changed my foolish ways.) It's a huge cultural problem in consumerist, live in the moment,  America. So it's not surprising that most Americans don't prepare with at least an extra week's worth of food, medicine, water, warmth in some form, and the like on hand in case of a rare emergency.

Most people with extra resources where I live do have extra on hand for hurricane season.  We're near Raleigh, so we're far enough inland that we only get the very edge of hurricanes, and we do get occasional tornadoes, with power outages that last only a day or two at most in late summer-fall. Many people own generators. Many fireplaces.

But here's a weird thing about The South.  Most people with disposable income here don't have proper outdoor clothing for regular extremes in weather that happen every.single.winter.  They'll say it's too cold to go outside on days with highs in the 30s-40s. The don't own thermal underwear.  They don't own heavy coats, hats, gloves, socks, scarves, footwear.  Kids aren't allowed outside to play because it's too cold.  Homeschool park days are shut down because no one who was raised here will go.

People frequently repeat a strange phrase, "It's too cold for this southern girl/guy" when talking about themselves and their refusal to go outside in winter. It's somehow become part of their identity to not be "able" to handle cold.  Uh, add more layers? Buy clothes designed for the weather you actually live in?  All over the world in places far colder they buy the types of clothing that provide adequate warmth. They adapt to their environment like animals and humans usually do. What do they think they'll do if there's power outage in winter instead of during hurricane season late summer-fall? I say that as someone with Raynaud's Syndrome (hypersensitivity to cold) and the first 45 of my 47 years on this earth in PHX, so I had to adapt more than most here, but it really wasn't hard.  Walmart carries thermal underwear.  Heavy winter clothing really is sold nationwide and Amazon delivers to most people's houses.

Until we deal with those underlying mindsets to get those people who could manage better on their own to start doing so, it's going to be a repeating disaster on a bigger scale than it needs to be. That means the people who don't have extra or even adequate resources will have less access to needed services because people who could've done better but chose not to are now in need of services too, and services are always limited. 

[HS Mom in NC]

11 minutes ago, TheReader said:

In the days prior to this (I'm in a Houston suburb), the predictions were that those who accumulated more than 1/4" of ice would face power outages, which would impact above-ground power lines. Where I live, we were not predicted to have that much ice, and our power is underground, so we had zero anticipation of losing power at our place. In all of the hurricanes, we've not lost power (through all of Harvey, and all those since, we never had an interruption of any services at all).  So that is not what we prepped for. 

I think there IS a call for personal responsibility, for sure. Absolutely. We prepared as best we could for the conditions we were told to expect. We knew we would be stuck at home, because no one expects the gov't of the Houston/Gulf Coast area to have means to deal with ice on the roads. We prepped for that. 

 

And yes, this was predicted, and I'm not by any stretch letting off the hook whoever all screwed up with Ercot. But also our forecast has been changing daily. When the first snowflakes were falling at my house, the weather forecast was at that moment saying it would still be a few hours before the freezing rain turned into snow. The temps overnight kept being colder than the predictions. When this started, we were supposed to be back at 70* by this coming Sunday, and supposed to only have a hard freeze (pipe threatening) on Mon/Tues. Now, we're facing another hard freeze on Thurs/Fri nights, and won't be up to 70* until next Tuesday....we'll still be in the 40s on Sunday. 

 

Here's something that I think isn't addressed enough, and it can make people more vulnerable than they need to be-weather forecast are frequently wrong.  It's not unusual at all for the forecast to be wrong.  So we need to tell people to plan for worst case scenarios, including that the forecasters will under-predict the worst conditions for extreme heat, cold, and whatever form of precipitation could come. 

[Pawz4me]

7 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

But here's a weird thing about The South.  Most people with disposable income here don't have proper outdoor clothing for regular extremes in weather that happen every.single.winter.  They'll say it's too cold to go outside on days with highs in the 30s-40s. The don't own thermal underwear.  They don't own heavy coats, hats, gloves, socks, scarves, footwear.  Kids aren't allowed outside to play because it's too cold.  Homeschool park days are shut down because no one who was raised here will go.

People frequently repeat a strange phrase, "It's too cold for this southern girl/guy" when talking about themselves and their refusal to go outside in winter. It's somehow become part of their identity to not be "able" to handle cold. 

I live about 100 miles west of you. I've lived here my entire 58 years. Both sides of my family have lived here for generations. I don't know one single person who has those types of attitudes and/or who isn't prepared for cold weather. Not one. I kind of wonder if maybe you're dealing with a lot of fairly recent transplants. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Pawz4me

[HS Mom in NC]

29 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I live about 100 miles west of you. I've lived here my entire 58 years. Both sides of my family have lived here for generations. I don't know one single person who has those types of attitudes and/or who isn't prepared for cold weather. Not one. I kind of wonder if maybe you're dealing with a lot of fairly recent transplants. 

No, exactly the opposite.  The transplants are the ones willing to be outside, the locals are the ones who are the ones who say the phrase I hear all.the.time. in person at homeschool groups, church, and on social media.  Transplants from here are mostly from the Midwest and the Northeast and know exactly how to deal with cold.

[Pawz4me]

1 minute ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

No, exactly the opposite.  The transplants are the ones willing to be outside, the locals are the ones who are the ones who say the phrase I hear all.the.time. in person at homeschool groups, church, and on social media.  Transplants from here are mostly from the Midwest and the Northeast and know exactly how to deal with cold.

Well, like I said--lived here my whole life and don't know a single person who isn't prepared for winter weather and well able to deal with it. I guess we run with different types of people.

[Farrar]

I'm not currently living in the south but I certainly grew up there. We did not have adequate winter clothes. Was that a choice? I mean, I don't know exactly. We were poor, but not like, poor poor, at least not in resources because even when we were on free lunch we had grandparents who would clothe us and make sure we didn't get evicted. We weren't kept from going outside in the cold... but also, I don't think I ever had a really proper winter coat after I was a little kid. When I had my kids here in the mid-atlantic where you do need winter gear sometimes, a friend from the south was like, I didn't understand that you really had to outfit kids for all weather all the time and I didn't think it was an affordable thing to do until people showed me the Value Village. And that's how I felt too. Like, oh, we're supposed to get them galoshes and snow boots? I literally did not know snow suits were a thing that you could buy for children. I mean, if I had thought about it, I would have been like, of course, but I never occurred to me to think about it until someone handed me down some when my kids were two and was like, you will need these.

[Tree Frog]

17 hours ago, historically accurate said:

What is the reasoning behind that? 

I don't specifically know. There was some discussion on the neighborhood FB page asking an installer who lives in the neighborhood how one would direct the energy from the solar panels into their home, bypassing the energy company. Several people said they're not allowed to use batteries until a few years have gone by. Our neighborhood is new enough that no one with solar is able to use batteries for storage yet.

It might have to do with rebates the local energy company offered in exchange for using their solar. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Reader brought up a good point about the community also needing to come together.  It isn't just individual vs. government.  Our community has done a good job coming together in (small) times of crisis.  I hope that they would in bigger times as well. 

Recent examples here:  tools and supplies get shared around the neighbors a lot.  I try not to get bothered by the fact that some people do tend to always be the borrowers. . .  but I think that dynamic happens at times and I'm not going to withhold help because of it.

One neighbor planted a huge "COVID garden" and has shared with neighbors.

We have a grassroots food bank/ dry goods distribution going where I volunteer.  I have been impressed with how much people have stepped up when we share specific needs.  I have also been impressed with how thankful the recipients have been and how they've shared what they can back with us to use for others. 

When a huge tree fell on my neighbors house a number of Christmas's ago it was a no-brainer to invite them into our house:  both them and their house guests.  It was a really fun Christmas coming all together! 

[MEmama]

Just now, Wilrunner3 said:

I don't specifically know. There was some discussion on the neighborhood FB page asking an installer who lives in the neighborhood how one would direct the energy from the solar panels into their home, bypassing the energy company. Several people said they're not allowed to use batteries until a few years have gone by. Our neighborhood is new enough that no one with solar is able to use batteries for storage yet.

It might have to do with rebates the local energy company offered in exchange for using their solar. 

Yes, it sounds like a leasing scheme where the solar companies claim the panels are providing green energy for the home but really it’s just sent into the main distribution line. In that case the panels do create green energy, just not directly or solely for that home.

Surely no one would spend thousands of dollars on private solar panels they don’t benefit from. Are those not legal in your state, somehow?

[aggie96]

@TheReader, I wonder if we live in the same neighborhood? You are describing our exact experience. Except our HEB, Waffle House, and Bucees were open limited hours but very difficult to get to.

[Tree Frog]

12 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Surely no one would spend thousands of dollars on private solar panels they don’t benefit from. Are those not legal in your state, somehow?

They benefit from them in that they're paid for the energy, so their electric bills are just a couple of (single digit) dollars, which is a significant savings in the summer heat. We looked in to having panels installed, but the 5-6 years we'll be living in this house won't allow us to recoup most of our expense.

We're not technically in the city, but our energy company supplies the entire region and has required everyone in the region to put their household solar power into the energy company's power. If we lived outside of their region, I think we could store our own solar energy.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

But here's a weird thing about The South.  Most people with disposable income here don't have proper outdoor clothing for regular extremes in weather that happen every.single.winter.  They'll say it's too cold to go outside on days with highs in the 30s-40s. The don't own thermal underwear.  They don't own heavy coats, hats, gloves, socks, scarves, footwear.  Kids aren't allowed outside to play because it's too cold.  Homeschool park days are shut down because no one who was raised here will go.

People frequently repeat a strange phrase, "It's too cold for this southern girl/guy" when talking about themselves and their refusal to go outside in winter. It's somehow become part of their identity to not be "able" to handle cold.  Uh, add more layers? Buy clothes designed for the weather you actually live in?  All over the world in places far colder they buy the types of clothing that provide adequate warmth. 

Well, I'm way farther south than that, but I'll admit to that attitude. When it is a handful of days a year, it makes more sense to stay inside for all but a few minutes, rather than buy new heavier coats for all the kids each year, store all that stuff, etc. But literally, it's a few days a  year. And spread out over the winter. If it was several months, or one month, sure. But I'm not dealing with shopping for and keeping correct sizes and storing that kind of stuff year in and year out for a few days. We will stay inside. We do have sleeping bags, some extra blankets, and a fireplace and such, and now I know that if power went out in a cold snap we should pitch our tent in the living room. 

[MEmama]

2 minutes ago, Wilrunner3 said:

They benefit from them in that they're paid for the energy, so their electric bills are just a couple of (single digit) dollars, which is a significant savings in the summer heat. We looked in to having panels installed, but the 5-6 years we'll be living in this house won't allow us to recoup most of our expense.

We're not technically in the city, but our energy company supplies the entire region and has required everyone in the region to put their household solar power into the energy company's power. If we lived outside of their region, I think we could store our own solar energy.

So your energy company requires homeowners who have purchased private panels (not leased by an energy company or green provider) to put their solar into general distribution? 
Sorry if I’m not understanding correctly. Regional differences always interest me. 

[aggie96]

Re: Community helping each other

That is most definitely happening here. I think Houston has always been good at coming together after disasters to set things right again. Yesterday and today, people have been cleaning out any pipe and fittings and pipe glue they can find to contribute to a big stockpile free for use. Handy-neighbors-turned-DIYplumbers have been going from one bust to another repair (even if only temporary) burst pipes. A couple of residents are patrolling the neighborhood streets regularly with channel locks and meter sticks to help quickly shut off water at the source as pipes burst to minimize damage. One resident licensed plumber has been going around the clock. People volunteered to take his phone calls and help organize supply trips for him just to keep his expertise where it was needed (not standing in line at Lowes etc). Some people have offered to run laundry at their home for those that everything is soaked. It'll be costly, but it will all be fixed.

The authorities over the power grids dropped the ball. There was nothing "rolling" about the power grid. Water was never supposed to be gone. And then gas disappeared too?! And our water company was kind enough to send out an email 24 hours in to the cutoff that they would work on restoring water after they felt it was safe enough for their crews to move around and to Stay Safe! No mention of what was going wrong. All the while, HEB was open. Emergency crews were moving around. Idiot "hold-my-beer-watch-this-on-ice" drivers were around. Information is key. People can prepare if given information. And now it's being reported that ERCOT issued a statement warning that prices were going up to mitigate this event?

You would think that the insurance companies would be all over ERCOT because it's going to cost them too, and their pockets are very deep for making things happen.

[Tree Frog]

Just now, MEmama said:

So your energy company requires homeowners who have purchased private panels (not leased by an energy company or green provider) to put their solar into general distribution? 
Sorry if I’m not understanding correctly. Regional differences always interest me. 

That's my understanding. I wouldn't expect it would be the same across all of Texas, though in other big cities it might be.

[SanDiegoMom]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

So your energy company requires homeowners who have purchased private panels (not leased by an energy company or green provider) to put their solar into general distribution? 
Sorry if I’m not understanding correctly. Regional differences always interest me. 

Here we have installed solar but it feeds back into the grid rather than directly to our house.  So we have electricity and we will pay the difference between the energy we provided and the energy we received once per year.

Some people do have backup batteries for if the power goes out.   They are about 7500 dollars I think?  We decided against them as the weather is so temperate, it's really not worth it to us. Plus we have a gas fireplace, gas stove, and gas water heater so we aren't entirely bereft. 

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, TheReader said:

Portable heat *outside only* though. you cannot safely burn a charcoal grill inside the house.

I forgot the house architecture is different.

[Pawz4me]

9 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, I'm way farther south than that, but I'll admit to that attitude. When it is a handful of days a year, it makes more sense to stay inside for all but a few minutes, rather than buy new heavier coats for all the kids each year, store all that stuff, etc. But literally, it's a few days a  year. And spread out over the winter. If it was several months, or one month, sure. But I'm not dealing with shopping for and keeping correct sizes and storing that kind of stuff year in and year out for a few days. We will stay inside. We do have sleeping bags, some extra blankets, and a fireplace and such, and now I know that if power went out in a cold snap we should pitch our tent in the living room. 

It probably wouldn't make sense to buy those things where you live. Here in NC when the boys were young I always bought them warm coats, things to layer, and Lands End snow boats. They always got ample use out of the warm clothing. The boots--some years a lot of use, some years almost none. But with two boys it was easy to hand the boots down, and then I'd pass them on to my cousin's boys. I don't remember any of our neighborhood kids who didn't have proper winter attire or who didn't go out to play a lot, regardless of the weather. Now we're all adults, and everyone has Bean boots or similar, jackets/coats from North Face or Bean, plenty of layering stuff. No doubt someone will say "shows your privilege!" but . . . whatever. I don't know anyone with an adequate income who lives around here and doesn't have those things.

[HS Mom in NC]

16 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, I'm way farther south than that, but I'll admit to that attitude. When it is a handful of days a year, it makes more sense to stay inside for all but a few minutes, rather than buy new heavier coats for all the kids each year, store all that stuff, etc.

It's 3-4 months a year here. Every year.

[fairfarmhand]

16 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

It probably wouldn't make sense to buy those things where you live. Here in NC when the boys were young I always bought them warm coats, things to layer, and Lands End snow boats. They always got ample use out of the warm clothing. The boots--some years a lot of use, some years almost none. But with two boys it was easy to hand the boots down, and then I'd pass them on to my cousin's boys. I don't remember any of our neighborhood kids who didn't have proper winter attire or who didn't go out to play a lot, regardless of the weather. Now we're all adults, and everyone has Bean boots or similar, jackets/coats from North Face or Bean, plenty of layering stuff. No doubt someone will say "shows your privilege!" but . . . whatever. I don't know anyone with an adequate income who lives around here and doesn't have those things.

Generally in our area, park days are uncommon from December through early March. Not because people don't have the gear (although there is that, I'm sure for some)

Mostly though because in our area, winter isn't generally snow/ice. Winter is mud and rain. We get cold raw days that are 35 degrees with pouring rain and in between the rainy days, playgrounds and yards are just a cold mudhole.  It's not fun to play outside in that.

We do get occasional days of 40s with sunshine and no wind, and we send our kids out on those days if we're dealing with a dry spell.