Preparation: Your responsibility?

[BlsdMama]

This will be a heated topic, I suspect, so I’m hoping we can discuss respectfully. 
 

I read this today:https://www.kut.org/austin/2021-02-16/youre-on-your-own-thousands-of-austinites-without-power-try-to-survive-after-state-electric-grid-fails

 

 And this jumped out at me: 
“Gunter said she thinks state and local governments need to start preparing for extreme weather.”

So, from personal experience with the derecho in Iowa this year, there was simply no way to plan for it. It was horrific and no one could have foreseen the damage that was left in the wake of an hour of hurricane force straight line winds. We were five miles from the edge of some of the highest recorded wind speeds and sustained little damage, but lost electric for four days. It was in the middle of summer, so cooking, being outside, etc., was decent. But we had no water (rural well) and that could have been a major problem. But, in retrospect, my thoughts were maybe *we* need a plan to run the well pump - emergency generator or ?? 
 

But in major cities, people don’t have fireplaces, wood sources, stoves that work apart from electric/gas. Municipalities cannot plan for every eventuality. 
 

So, then what? Derecho, freak ice storms, massive floods (2008 comes to mind in Iowa), hurricanes F5 tornadoes, massive wildfires... Maybe I’m a pessimist, but I’m very surprised that folks are hopeful that through planning, cities and states can prevent fallout from catastrophic conditions. 🤷‍♀️ 

 

 

[RegGuheert]

Californians prepare for earthquakes.  Houstonians prepare for hurricanes (do they?).  New Englanders plan for Nor'easters.

I don't think they can *prevent* all damage from catastrophic events, but I believe they can greatly reduce their effects.  As I said in the other thread, I do not feel that ERCoT has done their job, which is to keep the lights on.  While I haven't seen any damage estimates, yet, I will almost guarantee it is in the BILLIONS of dollars.  IMO, much of that loss could have been avoided by better planning.

[Carrie12345]

Well, I’m a bit of a prepper (the kind that doomsday preppers laugh at) so I think individual planning is extremely important. I’m also a CERT (community emergency response team) member in a family of paid and volunteer emergency responders, so I believe in municipal-county-state-federal responsibly and planning. And I also believe in climate change, among other disaster causes.

Combining personal and governmental responsibility is, IMO, the way to go and I can’t imagine what might change my mind. And that is, in part, due to a lack of equitable resources.

[Katy]

I’m surprised that people aren’t prepared for at least a week without power.  I mean it stinks and isn’t convenient for anyone (and after 3 weeks of super cold weather I don’t think we have 6 weeks of water on hand any more), but my goal is to handle 6 weeks without power generally. 

[RegGuheert]

2 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Combining personal and governmental responsibility is, IMO, the way to go and I can’t imagine what might change my mind. And that is, in part, due to a lack of equitable resources.

The need for government regulations such as building codes, electrical codes, etc. is also because if they were not in place, builders (even the honest ones) would make dangerous mistakes which would cost us our properties or our lives.  The things found in the National Electrical Code are NOT OBVIOUS THINGS TO DO.  We only know to do things a certain way because many, many houses have burned down and many, many people have been electrocuted in the past, followed by investigations and improvements of those codes.  I cannot stand bureaucrats, including the ones that enforce those codes because they can be a PITA, but I also don't think I can live without them.

[Sdel]

I think it’s everyone’s responsibility to do the best they can to be active participants in handling the crap life throws at us.  No one can prepare for every possible disaster, but we can all do our best and have a roll-with-it- and a ready- to-pitch-in -and-help attitude. 

[prairiewindmomma]

1. This is traditional Texan flavor Republican rhetoric—everything is your responsibility. The government has none. This is why HEB, a grocery store, has disaster relief trucks and why a furniture store owner in Houston opens his stores to let people charge phones and sleep. 
 

2. They are not pointing fingers at ERCOT, and should be. If the power had stayed on, very little damage would have occurred. ERCOT could have mandated insulating their wells and facilities and didn’t. Right now, elected Texan officials are pointing fingers at wind power (officials whose campaigns are funded by oil and gas) when the bulk of the failures happened on traditional sources. Ironically, when we saw all of the huge oil spills after hurricanes we did not see the same fingerpointing at the oil companies.

3. Is Texas going through some things right now? Yes, and it’s tragic. It’s seeing a lot of weather extremes at least  partially tied to rising sea temperatures and it’s having a lot of impact from bad weather. Some measure of disaster response does need to improve at the local level to address the continued extreme events happening.

4. we left TX for earthquake and wildfire country. They flat out tell us here to be prepared for at least three weeks. If I were to poll my neighbors, I doubt anyone is. 
 

My friends in Austin say people are out of diapers and medications. We should have some personal responsibility in this area...but these impacts are difficult to address among the very poor where Medicaid limits how early you can refill and where you are already living paycheck to paycheck. TX has a LOT of poverty, and few resources for the poor.

Edited February 17, 2021 by prairiewindmomma

[Carrie12345]

14 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

But, in retrospect, my thoughts were maybe *we* need a plan to run the well pump - emergency generator or ?

Keep in mind that most well pumps (Inthink all, but I could be wrong) run on a higher voltage than your general 120 stuff. Most big box stores focus on the 120s when they’re stocking up, so you may need a wider search and bigger budget.

[BlsdMama]

10 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, I’m a bit of a prepper (the kind that doomsday preppers laugh at) so I think individual planning is extremely important. I’m also a CERT (community emergency response team) member in a family of paid and volunteer emergency responders, so I believe in municipal-county-state-federal responsibly and planning. And I also believe in climate change, among other disaster causes.

Combining personal and governmental responsibility is, IMO, the way to go and I can’t imagine what might change my mind. And that is, in part, due to a lack of equitable resources.

Do you see people planning less rather than more? I feel this way though I’m not sure my feeling is representative of truth. More and more people think these things (catastrophes and major failures on the part of governing bodies) won’t happen, while they actually are occurring incredibly frequently. Is it denial? If I don’t prepare, it won’t happen to me? Is it an inability to prepare? I don’t see middle class families prepping a lot. The poor I understand - lack of adequate resources, places to store supplies, area like a yard to burn a fire or practice skills, etc. But I feel as though there is a trend in being less prepared rather than more?

[mommyoffive]

13 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, I’m a bit of a prepper (the kind that doomsday preppers laugh at) so I think individual planning is extremely important. I’m also a CERT (community emergency response team) member in a family of paid and volunteer emergency responders, so I believe in municipal-county-state-federal responsibly and planning. And I also believe in climate change, among other disaster causes.

Combining personal and governmental responsibility is, IMO, the way to go and I can’t imagine what might change my mind. And that is, in part, due to a lack of equitable resources.

I agree.  I think everyone should be prepared for a disaster.   Every area could have one.  Have extra food, water, and supplies to get them through a week.  I think that the majority of people are not ready for that.  

I do think that the state or city should do more planning for disaster.  Emergency planning and how to help their communities. 

[RegGuheert]

4 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Do you see people planning less rather than more? I feel this way though I’m not sure my feeling is representative of truth. More and more people think these things (catastrophes and major failures on the part of governing bodies) won’t happen, while they actually are occurring incredibly frequently. Is it denial? If I don’t prepare, it won’t happen to me? Is it an inability to prepare? I don’t see middle class families prepping a lot. The poor I understand - lack of adequate resources, places to store supplies, area like a yard to burn a fire or practice skills, etc. But I feel as though there is a trend in being less prepared rather than more?

I do see people planning less rather than more.  I think there are many reasons.  One reason that I can relate to is just the limitations of what you can do when living in a development where the water is provided by the city and you cannot install solar panels due to HOA restrictions, etc.  While we are *very* prepared for disasters now that we live in the country and have our own well and land that we can use for our purposes, we were utterly unprepared when we lived in a development under HOA restrictions.

[Carrie12345]

1 minute ago, BlsdMama said:

Do you see people planning less rather than more? I feel this way though I’m not sure my feeling is representative of truth. More and more people think these things (catastrophes and major failures on the part of governing bodies) won’t happen, while they actually are occurring incredibly frequently. Is it denial? If I don’t prepare, it won’t happen to me? Is it an inability to prepare? I don’t see middle class families prepping a lot. The poor I understand - lack of adequate resources, places to store supplies, area like a yard to burn a fire or practice skills, etc. But I feel as though there is a trend in being less prepared rather than more?

My impression, based on my own circles, is that there are technically more people being better prepared than they were, but still plenty of people who think it’s pointless, think it’s beyond their ability, or truly are unable.  I do think it must be overwhelming to start from scratch and maybe feel helpless/pointless. 
Just taking COVID as an example... I was not a pandemic-specific prepper, and have told dh repeatedly over this year that I would have been losing my mind if I didn’t already have certain aspects in place.

[BlsdMama]

14 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’m surprised that people aren’t prepared for at least a week without power.  I mean it stinks and isn’t convenient for anyone (and after 3 weeks of super cold weather I don’t think we have 6 weeks of water on hand any more), but my goal is to handle 6 weeks without power generally. 

I’ll be honest, whatever we considered six weeks of water became inadequate the minute we use water from buckets to flush our toilets. 

I'm trying to think how in the world we’d function with no heat. We have a wood burning fireplace I was seriously thinking of converting, and now I’m rethinking that. We have our own LP tank, but that’s not reasonable for the average family. Essentially, the post was in the spirit of, “I believe we have heavy need for personal responsibility, however, I’m not sure that’s even possible for Average Family...”

Truly, four days was nothing... but it was eye opening. We had tanks of gas. We were able to drive away from storm areas and reach gas. With that resource, we were able to get potable water tanks and water from my parents. But, look what has to happen there - an unaffected area, enough gas to get there, a largely unaffected area nearby that can assist, and all this without heat needs. I can’t fathom sick and elderly...
 

 

[Carrie12345]

1 minute ago, BlsdMama said:

I’ll be honest, whatever we considered six weeks of water became inadequate the minute we use water from buckets to flush our toilets. 

I'm trying to think how in the world we’d function with no heat. We have a wood burning fireplace I was seriously thinking of converting, and now I’m rethinking that. We have our own LP tank, but that’s not reasonable for the average family. Essentially, the post was in the spirit of, “I believe we have heavy need for personal responsibility, however, I’m not sure that’s even possible for Average Family...”

Truly, four days was nothing... but it was eye opening. We had tanks of gas. We were able to drive away from storm areas and reach gas. With that resource, we were able to get potable water tanks and water from my parents. But, look what has to happen there - an unaffected area, enough gas to get there, a largely unaffected area nearby that can assist, and all this without heat needs. I can’t fathom sick and elderly...
 

 

I look at it this way: the more people who are prepared for self-sufficiency (which differs by circumstance), the more resources available to those who are not.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Do you see people planning less rather than more? I feel this way though I’m not sure my feeling is representative of truth. More and more people think these things (catastrophes and major failures on the part of governing bodies) won’t happen, while they actually are occurring incredibly frequently. Is it denial? If I don’t prepare, it won’t happen to me? Is it an inability to prepare? I don’t see middle class families prepping a lot. The poor I understand - lack of adequate resources, places to store supplies, area like a yard to burn a fire or practice skills, etc. But I feel as though there is a trend in being less prepared rather than more?

I think it is denial.  Again like you the poor I understand why they can't prepare.  The government needs to be there for them.  

I talked about this in another thread, but last year before Covid shut down the US I was stocking up on supplies as was directed.  All the adult friends of mine were laughing at me thinking it was insane.  They had no stock of anything at home.  They shopped for what they wanted to eat or needed everyday.  These we educated with high degrees, well off, and people who work in health care.   They would tell me that would never happen here.   The shelves would never be empty.  I said ok you don't think Covid is going to do anything, but what about a natural disaster that would prevent you getting to the store, or the store not having anything or being open.  Flood, fire, tornado....    What if you needed 3 days worth of food and supplies.   Nope they all told me that wouldn't ever happen.  They just couldn't ever imagine that would happen to them.   I was floored because all these people are smart, but it just wasn't even in their minds.

I think a lot of people are so far away in their lives from living in that sort of way that it just isn't something that they can think of.  You drive everywhere. You have 300 channels on tv.  You go out to eat all the time.  Life is instant and everything can be delivered, shopped from online.   You don't cook your food on a open fire.  You don't go get water at the stream.  The fall from our life to a life where there is no power and water is a huge drop.  When a hundred years ago it wasn't as big.  We are as people very insulated from a harsh life. 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

A lot of my metro has been without power since Friday, so this is day 6. The gas stations are a mess in the worst hit areas because even if you had a generator, the gas station needs electricity to give you more gas to run it...and generators burn through gas like crazy. 
 

It is very difficult to be truly independent and self-sustaining for more than a few days outside of a farm situation.

[mommyoffive]

I even do a basic thing of keeping my gas tank full at all times.  People think I am nuts for that.  I always do it because what if there was something that made us leave our homes all of a sudden.  We have one car that can fit everyone, so I keep that tank 100% full all the time.  I know that most likely nothing is ever going to happen to make that happen, but you just never know.  I guess the situation in Texas is showing me that it could be useful.  It it was cold and out power was off you could go in the car.  Or even if the gas stations were shut for a week in an event or something. 

[RegGuheert]

22 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

2. They are not pointing fingers at ERCOT, and should be.

Perhaps you have not seen this video? Texas governor calls for probe into power grid operator ERCOT

[catz]

I have never considered myself a prepper of any kind.  But once covid started, I realize, we are probably always prepped for 4-6 week of food independence. 

We did lose power once for a few days.  It was a small segment of our city affected after a tornado.  I don't think individuals can plan for any eventuality. I don't think governments can prepare for any eventuality.  But as a tax payer, I do expect local, state and federal authorities to plan, be prepared and respond to emergency situations  I also think in certain living situations, you can't plan to have full off grid independence.  We cannot in our urban home. 

I do think the power outages on the size, scale and length going on in Texas were very avoidable as I understand it.  Very different situation than singularly hit areas suffer a bit longer than others but ability to bring in appropriate resources for a smaller group.  There's nothing wrong with calling that out as a failure.  

[SKL]

Personally, left to myself, my chances of surviving or dying in an extreme emergency are probably 50/50, depending on which day it happens.  I am a less-is-more person and far from a prepper, but others in my home have the opposite issue.

I think this is a more complex topic than people are willing to admit.  Maybe if we could take "blame" out of the discussion, it could be more rational.

I think everyone should have blankets, layerable clothes, at least a small amount of drinkable water, and a basic plan in case of emergency.

I think governments should have a basic plan for things that are reasonably possible and reasonably manageable.  I don't expect a hot place to have enough resources to operate like Fairbanks Alaska though.  Resources are scarce, and using a lot of resources on something that probably won't happen takes away from more pressing demands.

IMO the most important thing during emergencies is people coming together to help each other out.  Most likely, my neighbors all have different things than I have, but between all of us, we would be able to survive if we trusted each other to share resources in a crisis.  TBH I don't really know my neighbors, but I've helped them out when they've needed it, so I guess they wouldn't stand there and watch me die if I needed something.

I also think it's odd that people believe someone is responsible for making sure unexpected extreme events have no impact on themselves or others.  I mean where does that mentality come from?

Edited February 17, 2021 by SKL

[RegGuheert]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Resources are scarce, and using a lot of resources on something that probably won't happen takes away from more pressing demands.

I don't buy that particular argument.  In this particular case, it appears that 10s of MILLIONS of dollars could have saved BILLIONS.  Put another way, lots of resources which were already bought and paid for would still be in place providing water to homes, or not burned down, etc.

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, RegGuheert said:

Perhaps you have not seen this video? Texas governor calls for probe into power grid operator ERCOT

I was referring more to Secretary Sid Miller’s comments “we should never build another wind turbine” and a lot of the rhetoric going on. TX press is handling this differently than National. 
 

Abbott has a history of calling for probes when under political pressure (see Harvey and aftermath) and then not holding ERCOT or oil companies or others to make the changes recommended.

I am not necessarily anti-privatization of utilities. I am pro-regulation of utilities for health, safety, disaster recovery and performance. 
 

 

[Vintage81]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

I don't expect a hot place to have enough resources to operate like Fairbanks Alaska though. 

☝

Edited February 17, 2021 by Vintage81

[GracieJane]

It seems that levels of disaster preparedness depend largely on the odds of regional disasters striking. In California, we have water and food stocked in home, office, car and school. Every child has their own emergency backpack, and we have annual state-wide earthquake drills. When a region’s weather patterns aren’t so extreme (or reliably disastrous), there is likely less cause to insist on universal prepping. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by GracieJane

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, Texas has a history of hiding disasters... This wasn’t the particular link I was thinking of, but it gives you an idea of the collusion. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/USA/2018/0322/After-Harvey-unpublicized-chemical-spills-come-to-light

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, RegGuheert said:

I don't buy that particular argument.  In this particular case, it appears that 10s of MILLIONS of dollars could have saved BILLIONS.  Put another way, lots of resources which were already bought and paid for would still be in place providing water to homes, or not burned down, etc.

I'm not talking about this particular case.  I'm talking in general.  It would be ridiculous IMO for a family or a government to fortify against every imaginable unlikely but technically possible event.  It would also be impossible.

I haven't done research on the current issue.  I've been working on work deadlines and I don't pretend to be an expert in utilities.  I just find the mindsets I'm seeing interesting.  Sometimes sh!t happens and it isn't any politician's or capitalist's fault.

[Arcadia]

40 minutes ago, RegGuheert said:

Californians prepare for earthquakes.  Houstonians prepare for hurricanes (do they?).  New Englanders plan for Nor'easters.

I don't think they can *prevent* all damage from catastrophic events, but I believe they can greatly reduce their effects. 

Californians are periodically reminded to prepare for earthquakes and wildfires. That includes having enough gas in the cars to evacuate. 

14 minutes ago, RegGuheert said:

I do see people planning less rather than more.  I think there are many reasons.  One reason that I can relate to is just the limitations of what you can do when living in a development where the water is provided by the city and you cannot install solar panels due to HOA restrictions, etc. 

I live in a condo which has HOA. People buy bottled water for emergencies (earthquake, water contamination), people do try to keep their power banks and cell phones charged. 
I have gas for stove and water heater, electric for everything else. If there is a gas or power outage, we can still cook. If both are out, we are supposed to have our earthquake rations. 
 

I think if someone is okay financially, it’s always good to prep for gas and power outage scenarios. Like you said, any prep possible to reduce the effects is good, especially with elderly, sickly or children at home.

[fairfarmhand]

24 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

I’ll be honest, whatever we considered six weeks of water became inadequate the minute we use water from buckets to flush our toilets. 

I'm trying to think how in the world we’d function with no heat. We have a wood burning fireplace I was seriously thinking of converting, and now I’m rethinking that. We have our own LP tank, but that’s not reasonable for the average family. Essentially, the post was in the spirit of, “I believe we have heavy need for personal responsibility, however, I’m not sure that’s even possible for Average Family...”

Truly, four days was nothing... but it was eye opening. We had tanks of gas. We were able to drive away from storm areas and reach gas. With that resource, we were able to get potable water tanks and water from my parents. But, look what has to happen there - an unaffected area, enough gas to get there, a largely unaffected area nearby that can assist, and all this without heat needs. I can’t fathom sick and elderly...
 

 

You can buy a wood stove insert for the fireplace. If I had a real chimney that's exactly what I'd do. It's far more efficient for heating than a fireplace, but you do have the ability to use wood to heat.

[Arcadia]

18 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

A lot of my metro has been without power since Friday, so this is day 6. The gas stations are a mess in the worst hit areas because even if you had a generator, the gas station needs electricity to give you more gas to run it...and generators burn through gas like crazy. 

You (general) also have to have cash on hand in case the credit card systems go down with the power outages. I have paid with cash a few times when a store’s card system went down and so the cashiers could only transact cash payments.

 

16 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I even do a basic thing of keeping my gas tank full at all times.  People think I am nuts for that.  I always do it because what if there was something that made us leave our homes all of a sudden.  We have one car that can fit everyone, so I keep that tank 100% full all the time.  I know that most likely nothing is ever going to happen to make that happen, but you just never know.  

For us, it’s for wildfire evacuations and potentially earthquake evacuation (if the big one strikes).

[Pam in CT]

re micro-level Individual Responsibility vs macro-level government responsibility

33 minutes ago, RegGuheert said:

Californians prepare for earthquakes.  Houstonians prepare for hurricanes (do they?).  New Englanders plan for Nor'easters.

I don't think they can *prevent* all damage from catastrophic events, but I believe they can greatly reduce their effects.  As I said in the other thread, I do not feel that ERCoT has done their job, which is to keep the lights on.  While I haven't seen any damage estimates, yet, I will almost guarantee it is in the BILLIONS of dollars.  IMO, much of that loss could have been avoided by better planning.

It's not a binary choice, every homesteader for themselves vs full-on SOCIALISM.  It's branded that way sometimes, but I really, really, really don't see it that way.

Individuals can make very basic household-level emergency preparations -- enough shelf-stable food on hand to get through a week or so (even if non-favored food); sufficient water to drink and cook (even if toilets get a bit gross and dishes aren't washed as promptly or thoroughly as usual); flashlights and non-tip candles; a container or two of extra gas on hand in the event that evacuation is necessary and you own a car.  Beyond that: there are limits even to household emergency preparedness. Some people live in apartments or rentals and do not "own" their own heating capacity; some people lack the space to store and the extra income to afford 3+ weeks' worth of provisions; some people have no practical means of assuring meaningful water supply; some people are precluded by multi-dwelling building codes from using wood-burning stoves/ oil based heaters... and etc.

And individuals can't do anything at all to ensure buildings are built to withstand earthquakes or flooding or inhibit the spread of fire; or that sprinklers and alarm detectors are installed; or that walls are adequately insulated or windows are hurricane-proof.  That is the business of building codes. Everyone (except, tellingly, insurance companies) hates building codes, they add cost and hassle and buyers don't *see* their benefit in the short term.  But strong codes really do result in fewer buildings falling down.

And individuals have no levers at all to influence whether or not -- as an example -- power generation companies in mostly-warm locations bother to invest in de-icing equipment; or whether or not -- as an example -- power generation companies bother to enter into, and pay for, connectivity and reciprocity agreements with adjacent grids in adjacent states. Only government can do that. Individual households have literally zero capacity to effect those kinds of intrinsically macro decisions. And yet they very much matter.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Well, I’m a bit of a prepper (the kind that doomsday preppers laugh at) so I think individual planning is extremely important. I’m also a CERT (community emergency response team) member in a family of paid and volunteer emergency responders, so I believe in municipal-county-state-federal responsibly and planning. And I also believe in climate change, among other disaster causes.

Combining personal and governmental responsibility is, IMO, the way to go and I can’t imagine what might change my mind. And that is, in part, due to a lack of equitable resources.

This. Both / and. 

It's not binary.

 

We're all in the same canoe, whether we like that or not and whether we'd choose that or not.  And also: we each have a responsibility to use our own paddles.

[RegGuheert]

I'll hop up on one of my little soapboxes for just a bit to say that one reason that many utilities and politicians do not like renewable energy, particularly solar power, is that it takes power away from them (both literally and figuratively).  This has *already* happened in Hawaii, where it is cheaper to build your own standalone, battery-powered, maintenance-free photovoltaic system than it is to purchase power from the electric utility (completely unsubsidized).  As solar and battery prices come down and utility power continues to get more expensive, that crossover is going to happen in more and more locations around the world.

It is events like this one in Texas which really irk me because we do not only pay for our electricity in our monthly bills, but we also pay for it through our taxes.  If they are going to take all that money and then shirk their responsibility to provide power under circumstances which have been discussed for decades, then they need to be taken down.

Alternatives do exist and this is exactly the type of watershed event which will cause Texans to take back some of that power that the utilities have had for so long.  Can I try to give it a name?  ELEXIT!!  (Help me out here!)

/soapbox

[RegGuheert]

8 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

It's not a binary choice, every homesteader for themselves vs full-on SOCIALISM.  It's branded that way sometimes, but I really, really, really don't see it that way.

I'm pretty sure we are in violent agreement on this point.  Perhaps I was not clear in the post that you quoted.

[ScoutTN]

48 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’m surprised that people aren’t prepared for at least a week without power.  I mean it stinks and isn’t convenient for anyone (and after 3 weeks of super cold weather I don’t think we have 6 weeks of water on hand any more), but my goal is to handle 6 weeks without power generally. 

I simply don’t have storage space for that much water or food. I expect many others have similar circumstances. 
 

I do keep a few days worth of basic supplies and some extra things in my vehicle. I stock up a bit when bad weather is expected. Realistically, we could never be truly prepared for a catastrophic scale disaster. 
 

We do have camping and backpacking gear, so some short term water filtration, wood cutting tools, fire starting kits, tents, solar light sources etc. But it would be far too little in an emergency that lasted weeks rather than days. 

[Pam in CT]

Just now, RegGuheert said:

I'm pretty sure we are in violent agreement on this point.  Perhaps I was not clear in the post that you quoted.

LOL re "violent agreement"

 

(I wasn't quoting you to set up a Socratic dialogue of parsing the differences.... just as a jumping-off point for the both / and. Sorry if that wasn't clear!}

[TexasProud]

49 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Do you see people planning less rather than more? I feel this way though I’m not sure my feeling is representative of truth. More and more people think these things (catastrophes and major failures on the part of governing bodies) won’t happen, while they actually are occurring incredibly frequently. Is it denial? If I don’t prepare, it won’t happen to me? Is it an inability to prepare? I don’t see middle class families prepping a lot. The poor I understand - lack of adequate resources, places to store supplies, area like a yard to burn a fire or practice skills, etc. But I feel as though there is a trend in being less prepared rather than more?

Yes, a friend of mine put on Facebook before all of this started a poll asking what people were doing to prepare. (In Dallas) The majority of the responses said nothing other than making sure their phone was charged.  I live in the country and remember. I filled bathtubs, got a ton of wood, made sure we had gasoline for generators, etc.  But most said they were not worried. They thought I was nuts.

[Sdel]

31 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I think it is denial.  Again like you the poor I understand why they can't prepare.  The government needs to be there for them.  

 

I think a lot of people are so far away in their lives from living in that sort of way that it just isn't something that they can think of.  You drive everywhere. You have 300 channels on tv.  You go out to eat all the time.  Life is instant and everything can be delivered, shopped from online.   You don't cook your food on a open fire.  You don't go get water at the stream.  The fall from our life to a life where there is no power and water is a huge drop.  When a hundred years ago it wasn't as big.  We are as people very insulated from a harsh life. 

 

I think city living contributes to this honestly.  City utilities/services  are fairly stable compared to more rural areas.  Just because you are told to prepare doesn’t mean you really get it.  Someone who lives more rurally is probably a bit more accustomed to being without a few days than someone who is doesn’t face the possibility of an extended outage every few months.

[Bootsie]

I believe in planning and being prepared for a number of different scenarios, both at the individual level and at the community/government level.  I grew up on the Gulf Coast and we always had our hurricane cabinet with candles, batteries, crackers, peanut butter, etc.  But, I think it is hard for anyone to be prepared for any disaster to the point that there are no hiccups despite the disaster.  No, a lot of people in Texas do not have several weeks worth of firewood piled up for a wood burning fireplace, a stack of wool socks and wool blankets to stay warm in their homes in a week of below freezing temperatures, etc.  In my immediate are there are many college students who are not prepped with all of those items.  

I ran university study abroad programs and we had to have a detailed emergency plan, including things like where our meeting point was in case of emergency; well that would depend--is the emergency a fire at our hotel, a 100-vehicle pileup that our bus is involved in, a bombing at the train station, a hurricane, a snow storm, a pandemic... if I knew what the emergency was going to be and was able to plan to the point we were supposed to plan it probably, by definition, would not be a true emergency.  

The one thing that I have found it most difficult to be prepared for is prescription drug needs for family members.  Some are easy but others are difficult to establish a back-up supply, especially if it is a new medication or one that a doctor is adjusting dosage on.    

[Pawz4me]

39 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

We have our own LP tank, but that’s not reasonable for the average family.

 

 Ummm . . . whut??

You're telling me there are places where the average family who doesn't have piped in gas doesn't have a tank?? Most people here either have gas available to them or they have a propane tank. Granted a lot of them (like ours) are just for gas logs. But still--they're ubiquitous. So I'm not understanding why you say it isn't reasonable for the average family to have one?

[ScoutTN]

21 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

You can buy a wood stove insert for the fireplace. If I had a real chimney that's exactly what I'd do. It's far more efficient for heating than a fireplace, but you do have the ability to use wood to heat.

But using a stove will not always work, depending on how the fireplace and hearth are built. Rebuilding our fireplace to allow for a wood stove would cost many thousands and take up an impossible amount of room, essentially blocking passage from one room to the next. 

[Paige]

We try to be prepared for a week or 2 unless we have advance warning that something worse is coming. But preparation is a privilege- I have space and money to buy more than today's needs. 

But we also need to see that climates are changing and "once in a lifetime" events are happening far more often than once in a lifetime. I think the duty is on governments and, by default the citizens who vote for and actually are the government, to change, recognize, and prepare for what's going on instead of endlessly being surprised. 

I saw some mayor's statement who said that nobody had any duty to help...that was disgusting. Isn't it the mayor's job to lead? And if you aren't leading in a disaster or crisis, what is your actual point of existence as a mayor?

[RegGuheert]

7 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

They thought I was nuts.

To quote quote Harvey Keitel playing Agent Sandusky in "National Treasure": "How about now?"

[ktgrok]

There is also an intersection where leadership/government have a responsibility to help and guide individuals in their preparation. 

Was there advance warning/preparation guidance on HOW to prepare for this? Specifically how much water to have on hand, ways to stay warm without power, what to do about pipes, where to go if you wouldn't be safe at home, transportation to warming shelters for those without a way to get there, a waiver on early refill prohibitions for medication, etc? 

And government reaching out to the private sector, working with power companies, finding out what they need and how to get it?

I mean, okay, A texan company doesn't have de-icing equipment for its gas well - could thy feasibly have sources some kind of temporary way to de-ice from another state in a lease arrangement? This was known about ahead of time - they should have been preparing and government should have been facilitating that to some extent. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by ktgrok

[Clemsondana]

I think that everybody should do what they can.  But, you're also not going to easily be prepared for everything.  Because we freeze a lot of garden produce and buy meat 1/2 pig and 1/2 cow at a time from local farmers, we had plenty of food when covid hit (I try to keep a good stock of seasonings, butter, eggs, and pantry staples - that's the easy part).  We also keep canned food and an assortment of cereal, protein bars, etc just for everyday use and the occasional power outage. We have a gas stove and keep gas for the grill as another cooking option.  We keep some bottled water and are ready to fill pitchers and tubs at the first sign of a problem.  I try to maintain enough stock that we can give food away if it's hard to find - it's not just about feeding us, but helping anybody we could reach who needed it. 

So, we rock on the food front.  But, a week without power in freezing temperatures would be a challenge.  We've done bits of work for a few years to prepare for putting in a whole-house generator.  But, things like that are only worth it if you think you're going to be in the same place for a long time and they have substantial upkeep and expense, and in the case of TX where the natural gas also quit working in some places, the generator might also not work.  We have a gas fireplace, but if the gas is out then it's down to blankets and figuring out which room has the lowest ceiling.  Actually, I'd guess those of us with basements would be hosting those in need - the basement is never warm, but it's never truly freezing, etiher.  I think it's really important for families and neighbors to pool resources in a crisis.  This means knowing your neighbors and recognizing who is likely to need help and who has a chainsaw or generator.    

I think that ideally governments and companies would have plans and backup plans, but I also think that the expectation that everything work all the time is unreasonable.  I expect that things will break from time to time, especially in extreme and unusual circumstances.  I want government and charitable organizations to help those who can't help themselves, and I want there to be minimal red tape in making it happen.  I also think that everybody should, to the best of their ability, try to not be the ones in need of help by doing the basics of preparedness.  A few years ago there was a small flooded road that cut off a neighborhood for a few days.  A few folks with boats took supplies over, which is fantastic.  But, the situation was described as something like 'desperately needed supplies and medicine' and I don't really understand why a bunch of people in a nice middle class neighborhood would not have supplies to last for 2 days.  I mean, I can see any individual running out of something, but surely there's enough stuff for the neighbors to make it a day or 2 if they work together.  That was the shock when covid hit - the number of people who said that they didn't have food for a few days when the stores were empty.  These are people who get manicures and have kids playing travel sports, so $ wasn't the problem.  I mean, I can see having to serve unusual meals of things that you normally wouldn't serve together, but no food at all?  

[Bootsie]

8 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 Ummm . . . whut??

You're telling me there are places where the average family who doesn't have piped in gas doesn't have a tank?? Most people here either have gas available to them or they have a propane tank. Granted a lot of them (like ours) are just for gas logs. But still--they're ubiquitous. So I'm not understanding why you say it isn't reasonable for the average family to have one?

Are you talking about a 20-lb tank that is used for a grill?  If so, we have one, but my sister who lives in an apartment does not, and my mother who lives in a retirement community does not.  If you are talking about a larger, refillable tank I do not know anyone who has one.  

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

 Ummm . . . whut??

You're telling me there are places where the average family who doesn't have piped in gas doesn't have a tank?? Most people here either have gas available to them or they have a propane tank. Granted a lot of them (like ours) are just for gas logs. But still--they're ubiquitous. So I'm not understanding why you say it isn't reasonable for the average family to have one?

Yes, everybody who is living in a city apartment. And if your piped in gas goes out or the electricity with which your apt is heated, you are screwed and there is nothing you could have done to prepare for that.
And if you're living in a high rise in the inner city, you won't have a fireplace either.

Edited February 17, 2021 by regentrude

[Spryte]

We are a fairly prepared, but I think not to the level that preppers are.  Maybe somewhat more than most suburban households because we are former backpackers, still campers, but essentially I’d say we are similar to our suburban neighbors here.

Since Covid, we are much better prepared with food and meds, most basic supplies.  We probably can get by for a month to 6 weeks, though we may not eat our favorite foods. If the power goes out and we lose the extra freezer, we might not have that many weeks.  We have flashlights, batteries, maybe a solar phone charger somewhere in the house. We keep at least half a tank of gas in the cars. We could use the propane grill to cook outside. Or the camp stove. We have some cash on hand, not boatloads.

Water - oh my.  We have maybe three days on hand for drinking (not flushing). If we had warning, we have collapsible plastic containers that we could fill, but I do not keep those filled.  We have had multiple water disasters in this house, and I fear leaking containers and water damage. Also, I don’t know how to store water safely for long periods.  We do have water filters and life straws, etc, for camping and hiking.

As for heat - we have a beautiful gas fireplace, but if gas goes out, we’re out of luck.  It’s layering clothes, and I suppose we could pull out the zero rated camping gear.

We do not have a generator, and no plans to buy one.

This feels doable and reasonable in our current home.  If we were in a condo or townhouse, in the city ... not so much.

I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect more preparation than that from individuals, and I do expect that our infrastructure and power companies be better prepared.

[fairfarmhand]

16 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

But using a stove will not always work, depending on how the fireplace and hearth are built. Rebuilding our fireplace to allow for a wood stove would cost many thousands and take up an impossible amount of room, essentially blocking passage from one room to the next. 

That is true!

[vonfirmath]

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Yes, everybody who is living in a city apartment. And if your piped in gas goes out or the electricity with which your apt is heated, you are screwed and there is nothing you could have done to prepare for that.
And if you're living in a high rise in the inner city, you won't have a fireplace either.

We don't live in a high rise and also don't have a fireplace. SO without electricity our backup plan was layers of clothing, blankets and spending time close together.

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, BlsdMama said:

Do you see people planning less rather than more? I feel this way though I’m not sure my feeling is representative of truth. More and more people think these things (catastrophes and major failures on the part of governing bodies) won’t happen, while they actually are occurring incredibly frequently. Is it denial? If I don’t prepare, it won’t happen to me? Is it an inability to prepare? I don’t see middle class families prepping a lot. The poor I understand - lack of adequate resources, places to store supplies, area like a yard to burn a fire or practice skills, etc. But I feel as though there is a trend in being less prepared rather than more?

I wonder how much this varies place to place? My city had a huge flood in 2010 and most of us who lived through it are indeed better prepared than we were before. It showed up last year when a major tornado hit a week or ten days before the covid shut down. The incredible amount of sustained local neighbor helping neighbor work that went on was possible because people had resources as well as willingness to help. 

[Soror]

I see it as a both situation.

I live in a rural area so people here are much more likely to err to the side of self-sufficiency than not. We have a fairly large generator as do many people we know. Dh makes sure to keep it maintained, we keep gas jugs filled. I keep a fair amount of food on hand, although not as much as I used to (I pulled out of the prepper stuff as I found it more stressful than helpful). We are more prepared than some, less than others. It is a luxury that we are able to do what we can. We have the space and the extra funds to afford these things. If we lived in an apartment in the city it would be much more difficult. I think the power company failed the people and should have to do their part, it is crap to say the people should prep but it is ok that the power company did not.