Kids, covid, and anxiety

[Drama Llama]

Twice, in the past few months, my 10 year old, has wanted to do something outside the house, DH and I have made a plan that feels safe, and then close to the last minute he's backed out, saying he doesn't want to get his family sick.

Neither thing is a thing that DH and I are invested in.  If he'd given another reason, I wouldn't have batted an eye, but it makes me concerned that he's carrying this burden.  

Are other families who have been pretty locked down seeing this?  How do you think it will be for your kids when you're ready for them to rejoin school or activities?

Of my 3 kids, this has never been my anxious one.  He's always been the one to jump into things with both feet.  If it had been his brother, I would be less surprised.  

 

[Katy]

I haven’t noticed this.  In his case I would think there’s a large amount of responsibility, caution and grief mixed up in his decisions. It might be a good time to have a conversation about the difference between anxiety and intuition. And how the risks in your family have changed quite a bit. But personally I wouldn’t push it right now. 

[itsheresomewhere]

Mental health is a big issue here.  We are participating in activities for DD.  I even would like more to open (4H) to allow kids to have that connection they need.  My kid needs to those to help with her anxiety.  Right now we are doing- a teen/parent bowling league, guitar lessons ( virtual would never work anyway with a hearing disorder) and going to the gym in the least crowded times.  When lockdown first started we did lock down more than most but it really affected her and has undone the progress we had made.  
 

With all that has gone on with your family, he might really benefit from some counseling.  Anxiety is a bitch and it really can climb faster than you think.  I don’t want you to go down the road we have traveled and getting help before it takes over is best. 

[Drama Llama]

3 minutes ago, itsheresomewhere said:

Mental health is a big issue here.  We are participating in activities for DD.  I even would like more to open (4H) to allow kids to have that connection they need.  My kid needs to those to help with her anxiety.  Right now we are doing- a teen/parent bowling league, guitar lessons ( virtual would never work anyway with a hearing disorder) and going to the gym in the least crowded times.  When lockdown first started we did lock down more than most but it really affected her and has undone the progress we had made.  
 

With all that has gone on with your family, he might really benefit from some counseling.  Anxiety is a bitch and it really can climb faster than you think.  I don’t want you to go down the road we have traveled and getting help before it takes over is best. 

He's been in counseling since his brother entered hospice, and has kept it up virtually.   It seemed like a prudent thing to do with everything going on.  I'll talk to his therapist about it.  

 

[Shoeless]

My 12 year old has expressed he does not want to do any sort of event with other people "until it's safe". I think he'll feel better once our household is vaccinated, but I have an eye on the situation. 

[Drama Llama]

24 minutes ago, Katy said:

I haven’t noticed this.  In his case I would think there’s a large amount of responsibility, caution and grief mixed up in his decisions. It might be a good time to have a conversation about the difference between anxiety and intuition. And how the risks in your family have changed quite a bit. But personally I wouldn’t push it right now. 

Unfortunately, I think he knows more about what it's like to lose someone than most 10 year olds, so he's probably more afraid.  And he's super close to his great-grandfather who doesn't get his first vaccine for another week.  So, the risk to our family is hopefully changing, but right now it's still high.

But on the other hand, the risk of this thing would be really low.  

I feel like this issue is trust.   I want him to feel like he can trust us to be appropriately cautious, and that if we tell him something is safe, he doesn't have to worry.  

[HSmomof2]

55 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

My 12 year old has expressed he does not want to do any sort of event with other people "until it's safe". I think he'll feel better once our household is vaccinated, but I have an eye on the situation. 

I’ve had the same with dd(16). I think we’ll all feel better once we’re vaccinated. But it will take some time to reintegrate into ‘normal’ life after being pretty locked down the last year. 

[Terabith]

30 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Unfortunately, I think he knows more about what it's like to lose someone than most 10 year olds, so he's probably more afraid.  And he's super close to his great-grandfather who doesn't get his first vaccine for another week.  So, the risk to our family is hopefully changing, but right now it's still high.

But on the other hand, the risk of this thing would be really low.  

I feel like this issue is trust.   I want him to feel like he can trust us to be appropriately cautious, and that if we tell him something is safe, he doesn't have to worry.  

I think your situation is pretty unique.  He's got both the experience of loss/ grief, and he's also got the experience of being on lockdown for what has really been a significant percentage of his life.  In general, avoidance promotes avoidance.  And in this situation, there was no safe option other than avoidance, but of course it's going to promote anxiety.  He's at an age that's black and white in thinking, but he's aware of risk.  Going from basically "no risk" to "low risk," is going to feel scary.  And it IS scary.  I'm not sure it's a matter of not trusting you to be aware that when you start taking risks, there are dangers, and that's really scary and feels like a big jump from "no risk."  I think as much as we want to protect our kids from anxiety, asking them to trust that mom and dad will keep everyone safe from a virus is kind of an impossible ask in the trust department once kids are old enough to be aware of how viral transmission works.  

I think it's definitely, absolutely something to talk to him about and also to talk with his counselor about, but I think what's going to make a difference in his willingness to do things is a) when the adults in his life that he loves are vaccinated, and b) when he sees other people taking risks/ doing things in the real world without anyone getting sick and dying.  I think he'll have to be kind of coaxed and encouraged to take risks at first, even with those things occurring.  It's just going to take time.  

[Gobblygook]

I’m definitely seeing similar things in my 11 and 14 year olds. It’s hard. My extrovert has become very cautious and says she now has social anxiety. My 14 year old was already introverted and has become more so, not wanting to go anywhere that might be risky in anyway. They’re both concerned about their little brother with an immune deficiency, and I have no idea when he will be able to be vaccinated or if it will even make a difference for him (he tends to not hold onto his immunity from vaccinations — he gets immune infusions weekly as a result, and while I suppose people donating plasma will eventually have Covid antibodies in their blood, I don’t know if they do now.) 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Gobblygook

[Ausmumof3]

Church did food for the first time on Sunday.  My oldest developed a cold two days later and now swears he will never eat there again.  He also spent the entire time in his room to avoid giving it to the rest of us.  I think maybe these kids will never be fully like they were before.  Hopefully they still manage to be mentally healthy.  Heck I don’t think I will ever feel the same about crowded indoor environments.  Maybe we as a society will learn a bit more about germ control and get healthier for it.

[prairiewindmomma]

Yes....but I don’t know that their fears are unfounded right now given our home situation.

I think we will be ok once we are vaccinated. All of them express desires to do things after then...

[Drama Llama]

7 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes....but I don’t know that their fears are unfounded right now given our home situation.

I think we will be ok once we are vaccinated. All of them express desires to do things after then...

I don’t know that his fears are unfounded.   But we planned really carefully to make this thing safe.  

[Katy]

1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I don’t know that his fears are unfounded.   But we planned really carefully to make this thing safe.  

I wonder if it's not as much about trusting you, but simply not trusting that the world is a good place.  If he's close to his great grandfather, it probably won't hurt to wait until he's fully vaccinated.  I wish they'd bring back that hug emoji.

[Farrar]

I don't know what the thing was, but if my kids were refusing to go outside and do things outside, which we know are very safe, I'd start making them go outside sometimes in a gentle and supportive, but firm way. The longer you avoid, the worse anxiety gets. Slow and steady exposure is usually the best way forward.

If it's something indoors... honestly, I just don't know. I do think there are risks and ways to reduce them. My sometimes anxious kid has taken to turning down chances to do things indoors. Like, today, I was like, come help me at the store. We would have had n95's or double masked with a surgical and cloth mask that are well fitted. It would have been brief. Mask compliance is near 100% inside stores around us. He had just said he wanted to get out of the house for a little bit. And he turned me down because he thought it would make him anxious. So... I'm mildly concerned, but I didn't push it. I'm glad he's covid-conscious and trustworthy. He will go see friends outside. They ran around during the snow day here a week or so ago playing snowball fight capture the flag in the woods wearing masks and that was excellent, even if my toes were very cold at the end of it from hanging out and waiting for them.

[MEmama]

My 18 yo is very anxious. For the first few months he wouldn’t set foot out the door, not even to drive me somewhere and stay in the car. That went on until June, at least (the only exception was to get a COVID test).

He still declines all offers to go anywhere remotely public except to run or ski with his team (everyone masks and takes it very seriously). He has been to a couple of bonfires (everyone masks) this fall/winter, but that’s truly the extent. I think he’s gone hiking with us once. He misses school terribly but won’t consider going this year at all.

We live in one of the safest states in the country. All our school districts were recently designated green; according to the paper there were 201 cases yesterday in a state of almost 1.5 million. There have only been 11 cases associated with his school and zero transmission within, amazingly (over 1/3 of the student body has opted for entirely virtual, the rest go one half day per week). Masking here is essentially 100% inside and out; our community is taking this very seriously.

The burden he feels is enormous. He absolutely would never forgive himself if he brought COVID home. He does have asthma but I think his biggest sense of responsibility is to keep DH and I safe. I hate that he’s lost an entire year, but I really can’t fault him. We can be patient even though it’s hard, and he’s doing the things that we are all being called on to do. But we leave his decisions up to him— we encourage him to safely see friends, we encourage getting outside, and we respect his actions either way. 
 

I’m not sure how or when he will feel safe again, certainly not before we are all vaccinated. 

 

[madteaparty]

No, but we’ve not been locked down. The 9 year old has played outside with friends since day 1, she and I went overseas etc. 

now my teen is much much more ridiculous about, say  masks than we are. In a way this has been a positive because he’s handled the curveballs much better. But I can’t imagine him refusing to go outside. He was put on “distancing and mask” reminder duty at his job and I joked that it’s a dream job for him. 

[mlktwins]

Decided to remove this.

Edited February 14, 2021 by mlktwins

[Drama Llama]

10 hours ago, Farrar said:

I don't know what the thing was, but if my kids were refusing to go outside and do things outside, which we know are very safe, I'd start making them go outside sometimes in a gentle and supportive, but firm way. The longer you avoid, the worse anxiety gets. Slow and steady exposure is usually the best way forward.

If it's something indoors... honestly, I just don't know. I do think there are risks and ways to reduce them. My sometimes anxious kid has taken to turning down chances to do things indoors. Like, today, I was like, come help me at the store. We would have had n95's or double masked with a surgical and cloth mask that are well fitted. It would have been brief. Mask compliance is near 100% inside stores around us. He had just said he wanted to get out of the house for a little bit. And he turned me down because he thought it would make him anxious. So... I'm mildly concerned, but I didn't push it. I'm glad he's covid-conscious and trustworthy. He will go see friends outside. They ran around during the snow day here a week or so ago playing snowball fight capture the flag in the woods wearing masks and that was excellent, even if my toes were very cold at the end of it from hanging out and waiting for them.

The thing would have involved being in a room with one adult, masked and socially distanced with the windows open, for about an hour.  If this thing went well, it would lead to opportunities that would be ongoing, but those would be either virtual or after the vaccine made them safe.   He had put a lot of work into preparing for it, before he backed out. 

So, it's indoors, but probably less exposure than the other indoors things he's done.  Since March he's been to -- a well visit to his pediatrician, his brother's vigil and funeral (basically our family and the priest only), one weekday mass with maybe 20 people spread out in a space for 500, and a few visits to the orthopedist.   Probably less risk than going into a store, and much higher pay off.  

He gets plenty of outdoor time, he has access to a nice yard, and he has people to play with, his brother and his cousins who we pod with.  We've gone hiking and biking and has played golf.  In October and November, we did a few supervised socially distanced playdates between October and November, when we thought it was critical for his mental health, and when the numbers were better.  

[Farrar]

That would make me a bit sad. You can't force a thing, but I would have thought of that as pretty safe as well. Just in general with anxiety I find that one of the hardest things to parse out is weighing the fact that this thing isn't a big deal and definitely not a hill to die on. But the anxiety and its accompanying issues are a big deal and a hill to die on. My anxious kid got hung up on something yesterday for the first time in ages and we ended up in a deadlock about it, with him yelling obscenities at me (he does this when he gets on the verge of a panic attack, I usually keep my cool and did this time). The thing itself was no big deal and dh was finally like, you have got to let it go. And I KNOW that. But also, if he doesn't learn to manage this anxiety trigger, then that is a huge deal and a huge problem for his life as a whole. So then once his temperature came down, we had to make a plan for him to make different, baby step choices next time. Sometimes when he gets that upset, it does help him see that it was anxiety, because in the moment he's always screaming that it's not a big deal, he just doesn't want to.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Farrar

[SKL]

One of my kids has a lot of irrational worries, but she has OCD.

I think it is very likely that your son is reacting to his recent trauma i.e. the loss of his brother.  I would not assume that is a mental health issue, but rather a fairly natural reaction to recent trauma.

[wendyroo]

We deal with a lot of anxiety here.

I think in your shoes I would start deliberately setting the stage with (casual, positive) expectations about how behavior will be able to (will have to) change and cues about how we will know when it is time for that to happen.

In our family, I make sure I frequently mention that once Nana and Papa are vaccinated that we will be able to see them more often. Once DH and I are vaccinated, we will take a road trip to see Gramma and Grampa (they have already had their first dose). Once most adults are vaccinated, then the kids will start getting dragged to stores and libraries again.

I keep these talking points fresh in everyone's minds both as encouragement that there is an end in sight, and as a reminder that they will need to adapt as circumstances change.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

My kids, even my anxiety prone child, haven’t experienced this.  But we have not locked down much as a family either, and everyone they love except my grandmother has had Covid and been fine.  I am the only person I know personally who has had any long lasting side effects, and Covid has swept through most of the people I know(I do have one acquantaince that passed from Covid, but his comorbidities were on the extreme side—he weighed around 350-400 pounds and had lung disease).  

This is probably more of an issue for a therapist than anything. You’ve had a lot of trauma in a number of ways.  

[Pam in CT]

Your whole family has a whole lot going on.

I would really encourage you to try to put aside the frame that his reluctance evidences a lack of trust in *you* and your judgment in evaluating or managing risk. That frame adds yet more to the weight you are yourself carrying... and also isn't necessarily an accurate read of what may or may not be going on inside *his* head. 

He's still a kid, but he's seen and endured a great deal. And is of an age that he inevitably and appropriately is starting to process the weight he's carrying in his own way and on his own terms. 

Professional therapeutic support to help him with that processing can be helpful. Your reception of his troubles as reflecting his trust in you could -- if he picks up on your distress -- could add to the weight he is carrying. 

It's the most normal and understandable thing in the world, for parents to want kids to "trust us" to carry them through the difficult parts... but it isn't really possible. They can't trust us out of their difficulties.   We can offer up tools -- in this case, pointing to health experts, help in finding and weighing the data, and etc. But they have to find their own way.

[Drama Llama]

3 hours ago, Farrar said:

That would make me a bit sad. You can't force a thing, but I would have thought of that as pretty safe as well. Just in general with anxiety I find that one of the hardest things to parse out is weighing the fact that this thing isn't a big deal and definitely not a hill to die on. But the anxiety and its accompanying issues are a big deal and a hill to die on. My anxious kid got hung up on something yesterday for the first time in ages and we ended up in a deadlock about it, with him yelling obscenities at me (he does this when he gets on the verge of a panic attack, I usually keep my cool and did this time). The thing itself was no big deal and dh was finally like, you have got to let it go. And I KNOW that. But also, if he doesn't learn to manage this anxiety trigger, then that is a huge deal and a huge problem for his life as a whole. So then once his temperature came down, we had to make a plan for him to make different, baby step choices next time. Sometimes when he gets that upset, it does help him see that it was anxiety, because in the moment he's always screaming that it's not a big deal, he just doesn't want to.

So, I think part of my hesitation is that I could force him easily.   My other kids, who have/had diagnosed anxiety can get really panicky, but he was like "Yeah, I decided not to do that."    If I'd said "actually, it's not a choice."  I think he would have just gone.  He has an appointment with the orthopedist next week that will presumably have more risk, since the doctor will need to get within 6 feet, and he knows that's not his choice and I'm sure he'll go without protest like he has the last few times.  But I'm not sure I want to force it, because if he'd said no for any other reason, I wouldn't force this particular thing, during covid times or otherwise.  

They have offered him another chance, so he could do this next week.  I think we're going to talk through why we think it's safe, and figure out if covid is his only hesitation, and then we'll decide together.  

[SKL]

After we were locked down for a couple months, it was hard to get my kids motivated to get out and do things.  It was especially hard for the one who didn't have any regular activities for 4 months.  I did have to "force" her (as much as you can force a 14yo hardheaded girl).  Had I not forced the issue, it would have just gotten harder and harder to motivate her.

I don't think harm would be done by telling your son that it's important for reasons xyz that he get out and do abc.