Does anyone have experience with a situation where there was disagreement about a will,

[Drama Llama]

and it ended up in court?

Our situation isn't quite as simple as one party disagreeing with the will.  Both parties disagree about whether one party is included in the will.  

I'm just hoping to get a better sense of what to expect if the situation goes to court. 

[kristin0713]

Does anyone know what the will actually says? 
 

DH got involved helping an elderly neighbor who was being taken advantage of. The man who was “helping” her pay bills, etc was writing checks to himself. It’s a long story but basically we took her to a lawyer and got the guy out of her life. She wanted to write a new will excluding her grand daughter who had not visited in 20 years and instead leave everything to her daughter. The lawyer revoked the original will and started the process of writing the new one.  But then her health declined rapidly and she died without a will. So at that point DH was power of attorney and he released all the assets to her daughter which was what she wanted. Well the grand daughter came back and sued everyone involved (including us, which was such a headache) and she ended up getting most of the inheritance as it had been in the original will. 

[Drama Llama]

Just now, kristin0713 said:

Does anyone know what the will actually says? 

Yes, and it's unclear.  Not because it was written poorly, but because it wasn't updated after a series of events.  I think it should be interpreted one way, but I recognize that I am biased.  

In my opinion, it's challenging because I think there is clearly one ethically right answer, but it's not as clear legally which is the right answer.  

Just now, kristin0713 said:

DH got involved helping an elderly neighbor who was being taken advantage of. The man who was “helping” her pay bills, etc was writing checks to himself. It’s a long story but basically we took her to a lawyer and got the guy out of her life. She wanted to write a new will excluding her grand daughter who had not visited in 20 years and instead leave everything to her daughter. The lawyer revoked the original will and started the process of writing the new one.  But then her health declined rapidly and she died without a will. So at that point DH was power of attorney and he released all the assets to her daughter which was what she wanted. Well the grand daughter came back and sued everyone involved (including us, which was such a headache) and she ended up getting most of the inheritance as it had been in the original will. 

Do you know how long the court process took?  

[Lori D.]

Perhaps this article on contesting a will may give you some background info.

The only way I can picture that it's not clear whether one party is included in a will or not is if it is a spouse or child who became part of the family after the will was written. If that is the case, you may also find this article on "What is Intestacy?" somewhat helpful.

No personal experience with a will ending up in court, but that article confirmed what I was thinking: that if the parties settled out of court it would likely save a lot of time (usually months to years to resolve), and the estate would not be eaten up by lawyer fees and court costs.

Sorry you are in the situation of having to deal with disagreements about a will on top of everything else you've been through in the past few years. 😢

Edited February 9, 2021 by Lori D.

[kristin0713]

2 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Do you know how long the court process took?  

Too long. It was months IIRC. 

[Drama Llama]

10 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

Too long. It was months IIRC. 

I think that with covid, and other complications, we'll be past that.  

[Drama Llama]

12 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Perhaps this article on contesting a will may give you some background info.

The only way I can picture that it's not clear whether one party is included in a will or not is if it is a spouse or child who became part of the family after the will was written. If that is the case, you may also find this article on "What is Intestacy?" somewhat helpful.

Yes, the will was written before an individual was born, so they are not named.  

12 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

No personal experience with a will ending up in court, but that article confirmed what I was thinking: that if the parties settled out of court it would likely save a lot of time (usually months to years to resolve), and the estate would not be eaten up by lawyer fees and court costs.

I don't think there is any way that this would be settled.

12 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

Sorry you are in the situation of having to deal with disagreements about a will on top of everything else you've been through in the past few years. 😢

 

[Scarlett]

My experience is with an in law who managed to convince her 3rd husband who was very wealthy to disinherit his 4 sons. After he died they sued for undue influence and she settted with them. My understanding is that she gave them a huge portion of the estate but she was hardly left penniless. 

[Lori D.]

Paying to consult an attorney who specializes in these types of situations would probably give you the best idea of 1.) how much it would cost you out of pocket to take it to court, 2.) how long it is likely to take if it goes to court, and 3.) how likely/unlikely you would be to either win or get a settlement (sometimes as court cases drag on, the other party settles just to stop the process and not risk losing, per Scarlett's situation above).

Getting educated lawyer guesses to those questions may make it clear to you as to what path to follow.

You will also need to prayerfully consider if it is worth the stress or not, and what will be the emotional cost to you and your family, as well as how might pursuing this change relationship with the other party.

BEST of luck as you and your DH discuss, think, and pray through this situation. Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Lori D.

[Bootsie]

IME, at least some states, have specific rules to address if a will is written before a child is born and a parent dies.  Those situations were fairly straightforward to deal with.

I know some other situations in which there are complicated issues determining what is or isn't community property that have taken years to settle.  

[Melissa in Australia]

I have nothing to say re the will, but wanted to send hugs and so sorry you are dealing with another layer of stress.  

😞 

[gardenmom5]

It didn't end up in court - but my brother did get military legal aid to send us threatening letters over our mother's estate.  I'm positive he couldn't get a lawyer to take the case. (he was using lawyers for other things at that same time.)  Lawyers won't take a case if they don't expect to get paid.

[Drama Llama]

Thanks everyone,

The situation is complicated.  The will is simple.  We have good representation.  

I guess what I want to know is what to expect in the process.  Will there be a trial?  With a judge or a jury?  Will people have to appear in person?  Do I have to be there?  Are there witnesses?  Does covid change that?  I am trying to prepare myself for what is to come, if that makes sense.

Also, I am unclear how much weight is given to what the deceased wanted (which seems clear) relative to what the will says (which is less clear).

 

[Selkie]

I don't have any experience contesting a will, but dh and I have been working on straightening out my FIL's messy and complicated estate for the past several months and there has been some court involvement.

In our state, it varies by county whether courtroom proceedings are in-person or remote. Our county is currently all remote, but nearby counties have been in-person throughout the pandemic.

My best advice is to make sure you have a very good lawyer, one who knows estate law through and through. You will need someone who can skillfully navigate the situation and who will be a bulldog for you. Here, that means paying at least $250/hour, and the hours add up fast. It's important to weigh whether it is financially worthwhile before you commit to doing it.

[RootAnn]

My mom's family likes to litigate wills. One took several years. The lawyers ended up with almost all the money. Another took a couple years. Nothing was left for the family except bitterness.

My DH's extended family had a dispute over his grandfather 's will where the intent and wording were clear  (one daughter was allowed to buy the farm from the other siblings for a specific  amount of money). One of the siblings wanted more $$ to sell and lawyered up. Meanwhile the daughter who was supposed to buy it died of quick-spreading cancer. Rest of the family gave in to the lawyered up sibling & let her buy it for the original price in the will but the kids of the daughter who died were left out of the proceeds. No one went to court but the family is no longer intact.

I could tell one more like this about insurance money, but this post is depressing enough.

So much easier when you die with only enough money to pay your bills & bury you. 

[gardenmom5]

54 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Thanks everyone,

The situation is complicated.  The will is simple.  We have good representation.  

I guess what I want to know is what to expect in the process.  Will there be a trial?  With a judge or a jury?  Will people have to appear in person?  Do I have to be there?  Are there witnesses?  Does covid change that?  I am trying to prepare myself for what is to come, if that makes sense.

Also, I am unclear how much weight is given to what the deceased wanted (which seems clear) relative to what the will says (which is less clear).

 

where we are - mediation is a required first step.  The mediators are often lawyers (here), but they can't give "legal advice".  

How do they know what they deceased wanted? what someone reports the decedent says (especially if it contradicts the will) - is hearsay and is generally not admissible unless they are extenuating circumstances (like evidence of elder abuse).  that is supposed to be what the will is for.  A poorly written will can be a headache, but it is still the will.  if there are letters where the decedent states what they want contrary to the will which is dated after the will (preferably in the decedents own handwriting so there would be an indication they are actually the person who wrote it)  which could clarify a poorly written will, that could be taken under advisement.

However, the will is a written legal document that is meant to state what the decedent wanted to happen after they died.  If they changed their mind, but didn't change the will - well, the will is still the will.

eta: only people with first hand knowledge can be witnesses - second hand knowledge is hearsay, and inadmissible. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by gardenmom5

[Drama Llama]

Please don't quote

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

where we are - mediation is a required first step.  The mediators are often lawyers (here), but they can't give "legal advice".  

Who  picks the lawyer, does the court do that?  Who goes to that mediation?  Can the executor, who is related to me, represent our side?   His interpretation is the same as mine.

I know I can ask the executor, who is a lawyer, but I'm trying to not to bother him every minute.  

The rest of the questions are hard to answer while protecting privacy. The deceased had pretty advanced dementia at the point when she would have needed to change her will to provide clarity.  

[gardenmom5]

40 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

 

The court picks the mediators/arbitrators.  both sides go - they all meet, then they break up and each side gets a turn telling their side of the story to the mediator without the other side present and what is told to them there will not be shared with the opposing side.   The mediator just tries to get people to agree.  If the don't agree, then there's a court date.

With dementia - it can be argued that the deceased didn't' have enough mental faculty to be able to know what changes they were making to their will, and therefore changes at that time should be considered null and void and go back to a will that was written when the decedent was mentally cognizant.   

Again things will vary by jurisdiction.

Edited February 9, 2021 by gardenmom5

[Bootsie]

10 hours ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Thanks everyone,

The situation is complicated.  The will is simple.  We have good representation.  

I guess what I want to know is what to expect in the process.  Will there be a trial?  With a judge or a jury?  Will people have to appear in person?  Do I have to be there?  Are there witnesses?  Does covid change that?  I am trying to prepare myself for what is to come, if that makes sense.

Also, I am unclear how much weight is given to what the deceased wanted (which seems clear) relative to what the will says (which is less clear).

 

Is there someone contesting the way the executor of the will says that the will should be executed? 

I had a relative whose husband died shortly after a child (who was not in the will) was born.  Because of forced heirship in the state, the will was not valid.  Some legal paperwork had to be filed (all attorney-handled kind of stuff).  No one contested any of it, so it went smoothly; just extra legal steps that would not have had to be done if the child was named in the will.   

I had an uncle and cousin who died in an accident leaving a remaining child, shortly after my uncle divorced.  Between wills that had not been updated, insurance policies, property issues, guardianship issues, and many other complications, the entire issue was a mess for years.  So, I think the particulars of the situation can make a huge difference.

I hope your issues are resolved swiftly, equitably, and without much hassle.

[Drama Llama]

8 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Is there someone contesting the way the executor of the will says that the will should be executed? 

Yes.