My parents are refusing to get vaccinated.

[Moonhawk]

My parents and Covid, the saga continues.

My parents asked me about potentially taking a couple of the kids in September to a family reunion out of state. Everything very tentative, no one is sure if it will be actually going forward (but my Grandma will be turning 100, so they want to get as much of the family together if the situation allows it).

September, I said? Well, everyone, ie all the aunts and uncles, will be vaccinated by then. Yes, she confirms, they've all either gotten it or are scheduled. Oh, I asked, have you gotten scheduled yet? No, she says, both her and my dad are refusing the vaccine. The reason given is that she had 2 bad hospital-requiring reactions to the flu vaccines from 40-50 years ago and she "almost died with one of them". She refused to give another reason (for example, for my dad, who has not had a bad reaction to a vaccine ever and got them regularly, at least when I lived at home).

So, that's that. 

Putting aside the idea of a family reunion in September, my "hold my breath until my parents are vaccinated" scheme is not going to work. So I guess I need to wait for herd immunity rates? Do I just start visiting every two weeks, taking the potential they spread it to my house but I'm definitely not the one who will give it to them? Is this the point I throw my hands in the air? I've got my own kinda-vulnerable people in the house, though, so it's not like I can just YOLO the situation even if I wanted to. Ugh.  😞 

[Spryte]

I don’t know if this will help.  Probably not.  But here goes ... I, my kids, and my elderly mom all have histories of anaphylaxis.  Like, the almost dying kind, and recently.  I have reacted to flu shots. I was pretty nervous about the vaccine, so I scheduled a visit with our allergist.  She is pretty adamant that we should get it, despite recent anaphylactic reactions.  She told us that the literature she’s reading suggests the adverse reactions are coming from propylene glycol.  The main ingredient in a colonoscopy prep or Miralax.  That made me feel much better - we’re all good with that ingredient! So, if your parents have had a colonoscopy or even taken Miralax ... that might make them feel better.  Allergist said to take our epipens and wait 30 minutes before leaving the vaccine site, double the recommendation of 15 mins.  

[Shoeless]

I'm sorry. My mom and stepfather are refusing the vaccine, too, because of a ridiculous, made up reason.  It's insanely frustrating. ❤️ 

[mommyoffive]

Isn't the J and J one good for people who have allergic reactions? 

[JennyD]

That would make me crack my teeth from frustration, but I agree with Dreamergal -- 

15 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

My advice, no ultimatums, no threats. You take the vaccine, talk from your experience, ask other people in the family to talk about their experience. You cannot threaten people, it will only put their backs up. Bombard them with personal experiences of people they know, not some anecdotal someone. You can change their minds through solid evidence about people they actually know if you ask me.

FWIW I recently had an exceptionally maddening conversation with a relative who was (is?) convinced that a mysterious illness he suddenly contracted in 1984 was due to being immunized with the swine flu vaccine.  In 1976.

 

[MEmama]

My MIL refuses to take it (surprisingly FIL has had his first). She is denied access to DS and her other grandkids until she has one. Not sure if that will be enough though. (Of course she can’t travel to see any grandkids right now anyway, but it’s not like we are going to change our minds). 
 

I don’t see the point in arguing or trying to convince relatives. They are grown ass adults and if they prefer to live by conspiracies and fear, there’s nothing to do but shrug and let them deal with the consequences. 

[Janeway]

I am being vaccinated, but I would not force it on anyone. I would let the kids go. By then, they should be able to get vaccinated if you want them to be. You will not always have your parents and you just might regret it some day if you refuse to let them go just because they would not do what you want them to do with their own bodies.

[Farrar]

You and your vulnerable people should be vax'ed within the year for sure. I would just wait it out. It's all a swiss cheese model - there will never be a perfect barrier point. At some point, you have to decide you'll be okay with the swiss cheese layers. When you get vaccinated, maybe that will be it. There is promising data coming out that the vaccines do dramatically limit transmission, so that's potentially good for them as well.

[Janeway]

19 minutes ago, JennyD said:

That would make me crack my teeth from frustration, but I agree with Dreamergal -- 

FWIW I recently had an exceptionally maddening conversation with a relative who was (is?) convinced that a mysterious illness he suddenly contracted in 1984 was due to being immunized with the swine flu vaccine.  In 1976.

 

I did have a relative who died from the swine flu vaccination and it was not something where he died right away.

I do not think the Covid vaccination is proven safe yet. I am still getting my shots (second one is tomorrow) because for ME, it is worth the risk. I don't think people should alienate their loved ones over their loved ones doing with their own bodies as they wish. People should have control over their own bodies without emotional manipulation from others.

[Lanny]

Like your parents, I am elderly and have my reservations, regarding the possible risks and the possible protection. I have been reading about the Moderna vaccine and the others, since last Spring. The Moderna was my number one interest, because early tests showed it was also very effective in elderly people.

There is another one I am interested in. It is made by a Johnson and Johnson Pharmaceutical company. I am not sure about the spelling. It only requires one (1) injection and all of the others require two (2) injections.  Janssen or something like that. I remember reading about that one many months ago on the web site of the local (Cali, Colombia) newspaper, because they had about 500 people here in Cali participating in the testing.  Around the world they had thousands of people in the tests,  I think that vaccine may be a little less effective than some of the others.

Like your parents, many years ago (1997 or after) I had a Flu shot and had a very bad reaction, although fortunately not strong enough to require hospitalization. My wife reminds me about that, when I speak about the possibility of getting the vaccination.

The Pfizer vaccine requires storage at -70 C. which is very difficult and for that reason I would prefer not to get that one.

In the end, we live in Colombia and they have purchased  six (?)  different vaccines and if I get it it will be whatever they are giving the day I am scheduled to get it.

[catz]

I think it is totally fine to say no go in that case until your whole family is vaccinated if that is your comfort zone.  That may or not be by September for your kids.  If September doesn't work, maybe you can make plans to visit great grandma later.  I don't think it's alienating relatives to say you're watching and waiting for science to indicate things are more safe and we are approaching herd immunity in your community both for your safety and theirs.  I don't think we are going to get to perfect.  We all dealt with some level of risk prior to covid and I hope we get back to similar levels of risk post covid between good vaccines, better public health awareness and measures, better treatment of the sick, etc.  That doesn't mean you have to open up the floodgates while we are in the middle of an outbreak while there are still a lot of question marks.  That isn't putting out an ultimatum or forcing them to vaccinate.  

[almondbutterandjelly]

1 hour ago, Spryte said:

I don’t know if this will help.  Probably not.  But here goes ... I, my kids, and my elderly mom all have histories of anaphylaxis.  Like, the almost dying kind, and recently.  I have reacted to flu shots. I was pretty nervous about the vaccine, so I scheduled a visit with our allergist.  She is pretty adamant that we should get it, despite recent anaphylactic reactions.  She told us that the literature she’s reading suggests the adverse reactions are coming from propylene glycol.  The main ingredient in a colonoscopy prep or Miralax.  That made me feel much better - we’re all good with that ingredient! So, if your parents have had a colonoscopy or even taken Miralax ... that might make them feel better.  Allergist said to take our epipens and wait 30 minutes before leaving the vaccine site, double the recommendation of 15 mins.  

Thank you for this.  My dd has a peanut allergy and an egg allergy, and I have been somewhat concerned about anaphylaxis to this vaccine.  Our allergist retired, so we don't have him to turn to, so I appreciate you sharing this info.  It makes me feel a lot better about dd getting the vaccine and not reacting to it.

[math teacher]

My mother is refusing the vaccine because her pastor thinks it's connected to the mark of the beast. Don't even get me started.

[Scarlett]

15 minutes ago, Janeway said:

I did have a relative who died from the swine flu vaccination and it was not something where he died right away.

I do not think the Covid vaccination is proven safe yet. I am still getting my shots (second one is tomorrow) because for ME, it is worth the risk. I don't think people should alienate their loved ones over their loved ones doing with their own bodies as they wish. People should have control over their own bodies without emotional manipulation from others.

People should have control over their own bodies but it is not emotional manipulation to keep unsafe people away from your children.  Now finding a balance is the trick.  I agree spending time with our parents is more important than reducing risk to zero.....

[ktgrok]

44 minutes ago, math teacher said:

My mother is refusing the vaccine because her pastor thinks it's connected to the mark of the beast. Don't even get me started.

Wow. That beats the post I saw today that says we have never had a truly effective vaccine for any virus. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I am seeing this brand of crazy today too. Sorry. 
 

Has anyone tried to address their actual concerns? We are going in pre-medicated with epi-pens when the time comes for us to be vaccinated. If someone hasn’t taken her concerns seriously, it may be an opportunity.

 

[melmichigan]

19 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I am seeing this brand of crazy today too. Sorry. 
 

Has anyone tried to address their actual concerns? We are going in pre-medicated with epi-pens when the time comes for us to be vaccinated. If someone hasn’t taken her concerns seriously, it may be an opportunity.

 

I hesitate to say this, because everyone is told differently, but the general recommendation is not to pre-medicate unless your doctor recommends it.  My DH has had an anaphylactic reaction and his allergist recommended against it.  The concern is that it may blunt the symptoms and make it harder to diagnose a reaction, thus delaying treatment.  He made sure to carry epi and benadryl himself that day, and did stay the extra time to be monitored.  He did take all routine meds which include an antihistamine within the 24 hours prior.  His second dose is next week. 🤞

Edited February 3, 2021 by melmichigan

[prairiewindmomma]

This is a specific recommendation for me although I totally understand that allergist’s thinking. My shot will happen where people can administer oxygen and do the whole resuscitation shebang if need be—not at a Walgreens, iykwim.

My general point was to have a safety plan to address concerns.

 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Janeway said:

 People should have control over their own bodies without emotional manipulation from others.

I could be reading it wrong, but I understood that one big concern was them passing it to her kids, not necessarily the other way around. I by no means want to give it to my senior parents, but I sure the heck don't want them giving it to me, either. Saying that grandkids aren't going to visit until the parents think it's pretty safe for everyone isn't automatically emotional manipulation, it could just be a rational decision to keep your own family safe. 

1 hour ago, math teacher said:

My mother is refusing the vaccine because her pastor thinks it's connected to the mark of the beast. Don't even get me started.

I've seen this quite a bit on social media. Thankfully not from my mother. 

5 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

I hesitate to say this, because everyone is told differently, but the general recommendation is not to pre-medicate unless your doctor recommends it.  My DH has had an anaphylactic reaction and his allergist recommended against it.  The concern is that it may blunt the symptoms and make it harder to diagnose a reaction, thus delaying treatment.  He made sure to carry epi and benadryl himself that day, and did stay the extra time to be monitored.  He did take all routine meds which include an antihistamine within the 24 hours prior.  His second dose is next week. 🤞

Yes, I would definitely discuss pre-medicating with your doctor if you haven't done so. 

[katilac]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

This is a specific recommendation for me although I totally understand that allergist’s thinking. My shot will happen where people can administer oxygen and do the whole resuscitation shebang if need be—not at a Walgreens, iykwim.

My general point was to have a safety plan to address concerns.

 

I'm not ignoring this update, we were posting at the same time 🙂

Editing to add that it's worth it for the OP to at least suggest taking it in a more controlled environment. I know GPs attached to the hospital are on of the places you can get them here. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by katilac

[Ausmumof3]

I don’t think I’d give any ultimatums because I do basically believe their body their choice.  I would do my best to provide decent information if I thought that was likely to help and I’d make decisions for my kids based on a risk versus reward analysis but I wouldn’t pressure them.  Hopefully in time they come round.

[Spryte]

1 hour ago, perky said:

Thank you for this.  My dd has a peanut allergy and an egg allergy, and I have been somewhat concerned about anaphylaxis to this vaccine.  Our allergist retired, so we don't have him to turn to, so I appreciate you sharing this info.  It makes me feel a lot better about dd getting the vaccine and not reacting to it.

You are welcome to pm me, if you want more info.  She’s a board certified allergist and attends all the big conferences, with the big names in peanut allergy, etc.  I absolutely trust her take on allergies.  I wish I had literature to share, but this was just what she said during our appointment.  It was such a relief, I could have cried. I had been so worried that none of us could get it.

[Elizabeth86]

It's so frustrating. My husband could have been vaccinated by now, but is opting out. It makes me so upset with him. You can't control other people. 🤷‍♀️

[sassenach]

14 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Wow. That beats the post I saw today that says we have never had a truly effective vaccine for any virus. 

I recently ran into that one and I think I just stood there with my mouth hanging open. 

Different person also told me that they didn't believe any data from any source- ever. But then talks at length about YouTube sources. 

 

I give up.

[sassenach]

For myself, I think we've settled on trusting the vaccine. Once my high risk guy gets vaccinated, we're going to get back to normal social interactions with friends and family, regardless of their personal choices. There will never be perfect; we'll never be rid of this virus. This is as good as it's going to get for our family. 

[SereneHome]

17 hours ago, Seasider too said:

Have you tried the access-to-your-grandkids-may-only-resume-after-vaccination approach?

Yes, blackmail is the right way to go in any situation.

[1234]

My mom is not getting it either. 😞 She is 70 and works in a hospital so she could have already been fully vaccinated by now. We’re planning to do like another poster and trust the vaccine. So, when we are fully vaccinated we will get together with her again and get back to more normal things. 

[ktgrok]

38 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I recently ran into that one and I think I just stood there with my mouth hanging open. 

Different person also told me that they didn't believe any data from any source- ever. But then talks at length about YouTube sources. 

 

I give up.

I did point out a list of viruses we have vaccines for, including you know, small pox, which was eradicated. She was like, "Oh yeah, I forgot about all those." You know, most vaccines?!?!? Somehow in her mind because we don't have a vaccine for "the cold" and we don't have a great one for flu, we can't do vaccines for any virus ever. Sigh. 

And for the youtube thing - yup. My dh's cousin made videos from his mom's trailer's bathroom for a while. It was a "news channel" with all that super hard to find truth you can't get from mainstream news. I just couldn't wrap my head around the idea that people won't trust scientists, professional journalists, etc, but believe every word out this guy's mouth. I mean dude, he's a deadbeat dad with no job living on his mom's couch while refusing to work because then he'll have to pay child support - and this guy has "the truth"???

[PeterPan]

17 hours ago, Spryte said:

She told us that the literature she’s reading suggests the adverse reactions are coming from propylene glycol.

That's interesting. Perhaps if you share this with your mother that will help her make an informed decision? It makes sense she's hesitant, given her past reactions. 

42 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

heroic efforts to reduce the risk of my family contracting covid,

Does your concern for your immediate family go down once they're vaccinated? 

[Murphy101]

There’s a lot of people nervous about this vaccine. And there’s a bit of reasoning to that. It’s a very new method with very little clinical trail. 
 

But I’d set all that aside bc it may be moot anyways. In my state, at the rate the vaccine is currently being distributed, we are looking at 2-3 YEARS before enough are vaccinated to have herd immunity. So if someone does not want it? Fine, get out of the way for someone who does bc there aren’t enough available to waste time and vaccine trying to force people take it. 

Personally, I’m torn. Otoh I’d love Dh and I to have the vaccine today. Partly because we want to travel and rejoin society.  Otoh, I’m sorta okay with seeing how well it does on a large scale over several months before being stuck myself or having Dh and the kids stuck. 

[Pam in CT]

re grandparents, kids, access and "rights"

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

Quoting myself to clarify that I know this sounds harsh. But it is illogical (to me anyway) that after heroic efforts to reduce the risk of my family contracting covid, to have anyone (even grandparents) expect that I’d send my kid off on a trip escorted by unvaccinated people who are likely to also not take other precautions for keeping my kids at low risk. Just doesn’t make any sense. 
 

I do believe in my body my choice. I also believe that all choices have consequences. 

I am a strong believer in the value to kids in having deep and frequent contact with grandparents. It's a special role, with much more scope for unconditional love untempered by the need to set boundaries. And so many normally-developing normally-differentiating kids go through tetchy hard periods with their parents; and it's so important that they have other, healthy loving ties with caring adults through those stretches.

And also in the immeasurable value and joy that ties with grandchildren bring to the elderly. There are so many cases where divorces and other estrangements between parents effectively cut grandparents off from their grandchildren: and it is heartbreaking. I'm almost able to see the expansion of a legal construct of "grandparents' rights" in such circumstances, though I can also see the risks.

So I wade in to grandparent-grandchild dynamics in the time of COVID with that general perspective. Blackmail for blackmail's sake, no.

 

But.

Your body: your choice.   You put Risk of Vaccine > Risk of contracting/spreading COVID: your choice (obviously).

My minor kids' bodies: my choice.  I put Risk of contracting/spreading COVID > Value in Seeing Grandparents: my choice (regretfully but firmly).

 

That is no more "blackmail" than "Nah, my kids can't stay overnight with an otherwise lovable grandpa who drinks too much at night."  There's a real risk, and I'm protecting my kids/family from that risk.

[vonfirmath]

19 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Honestly, I had a lot of concerns about the vaccine and kept saying we would delay it. It took my BIL who is a doctor to actually take it and see how he fared before I personally was comfortable. DH was comfortable all along. I am vaccinated and my kids are too, probably more than kids here because we travel internationally regularly. But still I was concerned. It has taken BIL and other family members who are in various countries who have been vaccinated using multiple vaccines to make me comfortable and mostly because there has been no adverse reactions. 

My advice, no ultimatums, no threats. You take the vaccine, talk from your experience, ask other people in the family to talk about their experience. You cannot threaten people, it will only put their backs up. Bombard them with personal experiences of people they know, not some anecdotal someone. You can change their minds through solid evidence about people they actually know if you ask me.

I can already see my husband's adamant stance on not getting the vaccine softening as I have gotten my first and now second dose.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

I think people who are nervously on the fence about the vaccines right now will probably be less so in late summer as they know more and more fragile people who got the vaccine and are doing well along with first responders and essential workers. So keep in mind that they could be more comfortable with getting vaccinated later. Of course, there's no guarantee, so you still need to decide what to do if they don't. We'll also probably know more about whether or not vaccinated people can still spread it. 

We just have to get used to the idea that we can only make decisions based on the information we have access to at the time and often we have access to different information later that would cause us to choose differently. I know different personality types respond very differently to that, but that's life. You do the best you can and don't beat yourself up later if things change.

You can only control yourself and your minor children in your custody. Based on the information you have now about this virus, decide what matters most to you.  One technique that can help is to consider a decision from these angles:

What is the best case scenario is I do this?
What is the best case scenario if I don't do this?
What is the worst case scenario if I do this?
What is the worst case scenario if I don't do this?

Most people decide by choosing to avoid the thing they wouldn't be able to live with.  Another way to think of it is asking yourself "What an I willing to be wrong about?"
It's not an approach that works in every situation, but it can help in some.

[fairfarmhand]

I've had two people tell me that the vaccine changes your DNA! 

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

I've had two people tell me that the vaccine changes your DNA! 

That must be a common one, as I've heard multiple scientists giving interviews debunking it. 

[domestic_engineer]

Two of the biggest things that have helped me come to peace with others who have a different opinion on getting the vaccine are ....

1.  Reminding myself that I can’t control others only myself.

2.  Learning why others may be less than enthusiastic about the vaccine. This piece, in particular, was eye opening:  https://www.vox.com/first-person/22256595/vaccine-covid-pakistan-cia-program

 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Dreamergal said:

 

A lot of non-conspiracy theory, science minded people have doubts over the vaccine 

Is this really true though, at least after they review all the available information?

[Murphy101]

21 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Is this really true though, at least after they review all the available information?

I think a more accurate question is doubts about what about the vaccine? How it was made, how much trial it has not had, that it’s a new method of vaccine formulation, or it’s effectiveness/need or giving it to their kids can themselves or grandma?

My comfort level could vary a lot on those answers.

Tho like I said previously.  It’s moot for me bc my city/state isn’t putting much effort to getting vaccines out anyways so it’s not like I have a choice to make anytime soon  😒

 

[regentrude]

The vaccine protects the vaccinated person from severe illness, but as far as I know, it has still not been determined whether a vaccinated person can still spread the virus or not.

[vonfirmath]

27 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

BIL in the UK got the Pfizer vaccine, that is the the one DH and I would prefer to take if we have an option. We would also like to take the same vaccine we will eventually give our children. The Johnson and Johnson is a one shot so I would prefer to give that to the kids therefore would like DH and I to take that.  None of it has been tested on kids per my last research and so do we wait if we want to take one the kids will eventually take ? I am also not comfortable with the efficacy rate of the Johnson and Johnson vs others ? So do we take a one shot or two shots ? Kids ?

 

 

I am comfortable with the vaccine for me. I'm not ready for my kids to get it yet (But there is no vaccine out there for them) after what I have gone through with the two shots, though I REALLY want a one shot vaccine for my youngest, at least. (Even if it is one shot a year -- like the flu shot. Though even then I'd prefer the side effects to be even milder than the COVID shot I got) I don't care if the efficicacy is closer to that of flu shots. I care about my kid being willing to continue to get shots after getting it.  (nervous is fine. I don't relish it turning into a fight)

I am also concerned what is going to happen after Johnson & Johnson is approved here and people start getting up to their vaccine appointment, find out it is Johnson, and refuse it, preferring to wait for a "Better" vaccine instead of taking the one in front of them.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by vonfirmath

[vonfirmath]

1 minute ago, Dreamergal said:

That is what I struggle with. My daughter is 4, I don't think I can convince her to have 2 shots back to back within a short time. DS is 13, so a better sell. So I want one of us between DH and I to take it first to see the side effects for ourselves for DD. But it reduces the efficacy and since I want to get on a 15 hour straight flight and 20 hours in total one way flight this year, I am compromising my health in some way ? Am I overthinking this ? Lots of questions.

I call our local pharmacies periodically to get a vaccine update because I was told if pharmacies get it, the availability widely will be better.  One of the pharmacists hinted that they could get the Johnson and Johnson I think (not 100% sure about this). But it would make sense to give pharmacies the one shot vaccine I would think because how many will come two times ? Not many people read about the efficacy of vaccines and most get what they can I think so I don't know if many will say no. 

They have advertised efficacy a LOT this time. I think more people are aware than they are of, say, the flu shot.

 

Yes Pharmacies and such need to get the one shot because it would be difficult for them to give second shots and at least here, a lot of places are refusing to give you a second shot if you didn't get your first with them.

[sassenach]

5 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

I've had two people tell me that the vaccine changes your DNA! 

I had that conversation with my mom ("my boss's friend who works in the medical field..."). Also saw a detailed and completely inaccurate description of this DNA replacement process on a friend's FB post. I kindly shared some Amoeba Sisters videos to explain the difference between mRNA and DNA polymerase.

[prairiewindmomma]

52 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

My BIL who is a doctor in the UK completely isolated from his family as in use separate entrance, not even use the bathroom downstairs unless necessary, showering in the hospital, sleeping in the front room and not using the bedroom downstairs because it will mean he will pass the stairs which the rest of the family will use. He was restricted to two rooms in the house, one of which was a conservatory. SIL used to use the backdoor to get into the kitchen to cook. They never had contact, they would stand outside the conservatory to see him while he stayed inside. He was basically living away from them for all purposes though they shared a house.

A vaccine means he can be semi-isolate at home as in move more freely, shower at home, sleep in the downstairs bedroom. SIL does not have to walk outside in the cold to get to the kitchen.  He still does not go upstairs but he has played soccer and badminton with his kids outside, they have gone for drives together, they have occasionally eaten together. He still does home tests multiple times a week like he did before but he is not deathly afraid of bringing home the virus with no defense against it. The mental health of the entire family has improved as they get to have him back somewhat when he was a fully involved father and husband before the pandemic. Most of all, SIL and the entire family has stopped being afraid that he will die of the virus because he was exposed without any defense without the vaccine. 

Yes, same with my friend. I know many who have been living in campers in their driveway for months, who took up apartments with coworkers, or who have  been living in the basement (separate entrance) or the like. My friend cried daily because she missed her kids so badly but there was no way she was exposing them.

[frogger]

I know I'm late to the venting party but you are not alone. Not only has my step mom decided to not get the vaccine, which means neither will my father, they said they will pick up HCQ in Mexico because it is a safe and effective treatment. I haven't responded because really it is none of my business what grown ups choose to ingest but I might at least say something like, " hey, maybe just double check with Dad's heart doc about how that interacts with his heart meds." I know that arguing won't help but I feel like I need to say something. Last time dad was in the ICU for pnemonia and sepsis his heart rate often reached 200 bpm. This is when we discovered he had Afib issues even when not sick. Knowing HCQ increases these types of issues is bothersome to me. I realize it is probably safe for most people but... I wish they would get advice from their doctor not Trump-net. 😟

Edited February 4, 2021 by frogger
Spelling

[Terabith]

My parents are resistant to being vaccinated because they feel that they can more easily shelter in place and want the first vaccines to go to essential workers.  And.....I get and appreciate that calculus, but they're not completely isolating.  They're seeing my sister and her family.  Both adults work outside of the home, my nephew is in public school in person, and the toddler twins are in day care.  They do some shopping.  My father has gone to church and to my nephew's baseball games.  They've even eaten inside a few times, although not recently because they're concerned about the new variants.  They're both over 70; my dad's over 75.  My mom has COPD and my dad has high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes.  I'm trying to convince them that the distribution is just going to work better if everyone gets it when it's their turn and that if they forego the vaccine, it doesn't go to an essential worker.  

[easypeasy]

My parents & DHs parents, too. And they're all about as high risk as you could get. 😞 I'm hoping that once all of their kids/grandkids have gotten the vaccine, they'll be less afraid of it.

[ktgrok]

16 hours ago, Plum said:

Thanks. That’s what I thought. I found it so confusing when doctors would get on the news so relieved to get the vaccine because they could now go home to their families. I’m like ummmm wouldn’t you have to wait until your family is vaccinated to go home? I mean if that’s what you’ve been doing to protect them, why would you getting the vaccine help them? It really blurred the messaging. 

No matter what my or Moonhawks parents do, the only thing we can control is getting the vaccine for our own family members so if they were to be exposed, their symptoms are minimized. 

What I'm seeing from doctors in Israel, as well as from here in the US, is  it does likely significantly reduce transmission - that by lowering viral load even if you do get it there is less of it in your system for you to spread, and that many people, if not most, will have antibody levels high enough to prevent getting the virus at all which of course means not transmitting it. 

[annandatje]

I strongly believe that anyone who has reached age of reason should have autonomy over their own body even if I think they are a lunatic for not getting Covid vaccine.  

If you do not want your children around unvaccinated adult relatives, I see no other option at this juncture than to have a brief honest discussion with your parents explaining why the kids can or can't visit and let the chips fall where they may.  Your parents need to respect your parenting decisions regardless of whether they agree with them.

However, I always wonder ..... how far would one take that?  Do people routinely ask neighbors, friends, relatives and acquaintances about their vaccine history before allowing children around them?  Reason I ask is that in my entire mothering life,  I have had exactly one mother ask if my children were up to date on vaccinations, and this was in absence of a pandemic. 

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, annandatje said:

However, I always wonder ..... how far would one take that?  Do people routinely ask neighbors, friends, relatives and acquaintances about their vaccine history before allowing children around them?  Reason I ask is that in my entire mothering life,  I have had exactly one mother ask if my children were up to date on vaccinations, and this was in absence of a pandemic. 

I don't plan to interrogate people on their vaccine history, but if I know that someone is opting out of the vaccine, I will be opting out of socializing with them for the time being.  Maybe that stance will change in the future when I have new data that says unvaccinated people are safe to hang out with. Right now, I don't have that kind of data, so if someone is loud and proud about not vaccinating? Sorry, but we can't see you.