Cross Posted - MP Form Latin - how far did you go?

[Trilliumlady]

DD is in Second Form Latin this year in 7th.  She’s doing fine, but I’m wondering how far past this point it is truly “important” to continue.  I don’t plan on having her complete any Latin Exams in her future.  The purpose behind her studying Latin has been for the vocabulary support for future coursework and mental processes that will make future language learning more smooth.  She does it uncomplainingly, but doesn’t LOVE it.  She is interested in learning other languages I believe.  

At what point do I consider moving from the Form series to a modern language?  What would be the purpose of continuing into Third Form? I’m just not sure where to go from this point, and when to start moving more to modern languages.  Any thoughts?

[MamaSprout]

Most of Second Form and then Henle 1in 7th grade and were done.... but we had done Big Book of Lively Latin book 1, first. BBLL is what dd remembers. She uses her Latin grammar knowledge with both French and Russian.

[ALB]

There are no hard and fast rules here!  It really just depends on what you and she want from it.  My dd has through all 4 forms and Henle I and II.  She will keep going through AP Latin and has no desire to add a modern language to that.  

My ds went through Second Form and then moved on to Spanish.  He dreaded Latin and wanted something that felt more immediately practical.  That was hard for me because I have been so committed to Latin and have learned it right along with my kids.  

I think the ideal would be to do both a modern language and continue a classical language to some degree, but that's not going to be realistic for everyone.  If you just want vocabulary, there are other ways to accomplish that.  Probably the most useful Latin vocabulary to know are the prepositions and how they combine with verbs to vary the meanings.  Obviously, the further you progress in Latin the more vocabulary you will have.

[RootAnn]

I had one get a bit into 3rd Form & flounder so she swapped to Henle & completed Henle 1-in-a-year plan. She was concurrently taking Spanish. She said it helped her with grammar in her other languages. I don't remember if it was German or Russian.

My next kid only did through First Form.

My next did First Form & switched to Wheelocks. 

We've done it all.

[mamamoose]

My daughter is taking 4th Form and French 1 concurrently. She says French is a snap because of her history in Latin grammar especially. 

[Trilliumlady]

 

5 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I had one get a bit into 3rd Form & flounder so she swapped to Henle & completed Henle 1-in-a-year plan. She was concurrently taking Spanish. She said it helped her with grammar in her other languages. I don't remember if it was German or Russian.

My next kid only did through First Form.

My next did First Form & switched to Wheelocks. 

We've done it all.

 

Yes, I’m really hopeful that languages in particular will be as close to a breeze as possible after even 2 years of Latin.  Languages came easily for me, and I’m hoping the same for her.  Does Third Form really take a big step up after Second Form?  I’m curious about this.  If this is the case, I wonder if I should switch to something new this year after two years with MP.  If I did, what should I look at?  Did you like Wheelocks or Henle better?  I think I have a Wheelocks on my shelf....

[RootAnn]

I think there is something to be said for a proclivity for learning languages. DH doesn't have it & I do. Some of our kids follow after him & some after me...

I don't know how much of a step up 3rd Form was in difficulty, but they did seem to do more practice/drill. Dd#1 did First Form with me but Second Form online at MPOA. She ended MPOA with an A+ but learned/gained/retained basically nothing. (This has been true of bith MPOA Latin classes we've tried regardless of kid type or teacher. Fool me once... We won't be back.) Since languages are cumulative, Third Form required relearning Second Form & it was too much. Going back to the beginning with Henle was not her choice but enabled her to get two years of Henle credit (as the first book is usually covered in two years) done much quicker especially since she was essentially bogged down in Third Form.

I have no opinion on Henle vs Wheelocks. DD#1 & DD#3 both passed me in Latin. I corrected DD#1's Henle work & quizzed DD#3 with Wheelocks while she was taking it through Lukeion, but did not form an opinion. Dd#3 did not care for Lukeion (although she liked her teacher) so is finishing her minimum 2 yrs of foreign language using recorded classes from Homeschool Connections. It is not great but is a "get er done." Dd#3 is good at foreign language but has no great interest at this time in pursuing another one. 

[fourisenough]

We didn’t do the Forms series (sorry, op), but our experience with WHA Latin classes sounds much like yours with MPOA, @RootAnn; my DD took Latin 1 (twice!) and Latin 2 at WHA, scored As, and retained very little. She wanted to quit, but I bribed, I mean encouraged, her to switch to CLRC where she is working much harder but is finally mastering what she really didn’t learn in Latin 1 & 2 AND the new material in Latin 3. Anne Van Fossen is brilliant and so warm and encouraging. I’m so happy DD hung in there because Latin has now become a favorite subject. She’ll continue on next year in 12th with Latin 4/Readings at CLRC. 

[RootAnn]

Good point, @fourisenough . CLRC isn't always a fit, but Anne Van Fossen is an absolute gem.  Dd#3 was completely uninterested in trying any sort of live class again or she'd be in a Anne Van Fossen Latin class right now. (CLRC does not use Henle or Wheelocks.)

[MamaSprout]

3 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Good point, @fourisenough . CLRC isn't always a fit, but Anne Van Fossen is an absolute gem.  Dd#3 was completely uninterested in trying any sort of live class again or she'd be in a Anne Van Fossen Latin class right now. (CLRC does not use Henle or Wheelocks.)

Does anyone have experience with CLRC Russian? (sorry OP).

[RootAnn]

@MamaSproutYep. Dd#1 took 1 year there with Mrs. Turscak. I think they use a different text now.

[cintinative]

7 hours ago, RootAnn said:

 so is finishing her minimum 2 yrs of foreign language using recorded classes from Homeschool Connections. It is not great but is a "get er done." 

Is she doing Latin, Spanish or something else? I might need an option for Spanish III. I am not sure I can teach that level, but I am not sure at all how a recorded Spanish class of that level would work.

[RootAnn]

 

@cintinative She's doing HC's Wheelocks Latin courses. I wouldn't use HC recorded classes for a high interest course, but I've used them for classes to check a box. 

[Trilliumlady]

 

On 2/3/2021 at 7:37 AM, fourisenough said:

We didn’t do the Forms series (sorry, op), but our experience with WHA Latin classes sounds much like yours with MPOA, @RootAnn; my DD took Latin 1 (twice!) and Latin 2 at WHA, scored As, and retained very little. She wanted to quit, but I bribed, I mean encouraged, her to switch to CLRC where she is working much harder but is finally mastering what she really didn’t learn in Latin 1 & 2 AND the new material in Latin 3. Anne Van Fossen is brilliant and so warm and encouraging. I’m so happy DD hung in there because Latin has now become a favorite subject. She’ll continue on next year in 12th with Latin 4/Readings at CLRC. 

@fourisenough, what level of MS Latin did you place your DD into?  Was it MS Latin, or a HS class?  Trying to figure out where DD would place after 2 years of decent Latin learning with MP.  

[Trilliumlady]

Oh my goodness, so many questions. So I keep hearing people rave about Anne Van Fossen.  Looks like she only teaches HS levels.  So do I start HS levels in 8th?  Looks like maybe I could?  Again, in which level?  Argh.  So not ready to think about HS planning!

[fourisenough]

1 hour ago, Trilliumlady said:

 

@fourisenough, what level of MS Latin did you place your DD into?  Was it MS Latin, or a HS class?  Trying to figure out where DD would place after 2 years of decent Latin learning with MP.  

My DD (16, 11th grade) started last fall in CLRC HS Latin 3 (after having completed Latin 1, Latin 1, and Latin 2 in the preceding three years at WHA). I really don’t know how that correlates to the Forms series, but Latin Alive (the series used by WHA) teaches the full Latin grammar in 3 years. Hope that helps. 
 

I would think an 8th grader with two previous years of Latin instruction could easily begin the high school level at CLRC, likely in Latin 1 or 2? I’m sure Anne could help with placement.

Edited February 11, 2021 by fourisenough

[RubyPenn]

My son only went through FF and then moved on to French and has done very well.  I think when to stop Latin will depend on your goals, time, and interest. It was becoming a battle in the middle school years and was not something I wanted to continue to fight over with a strong-willed child because he wanted to move on to French.   He's in French 2 now and I had plans for him to go through at least French 3, but he isn't interested. 

Edited February 12, 2021 by RubyPenn

[MamaSprout]

5 hours ago, RubyPenn said:

My son only went through FF and then moved on to French and has done very well.  I think when to stop Latin will depend on your goals, time, and interest. It was becoming a battle in the middle school years and was not something I wanted to continue to fight over with a strong-willed child because he wanted to move on to French.   He's in French 2 now and I had plans for him to go through at least French 3, but he isn't interested. 

Some colleges want to see 3 years in one language or 2 + 2 in two languages, so have him check the schools he's interested in before he drops it.

[2_girls_mommy]

2 kids with two different goals. 

First kid did Latin from grades 1-11, dabbled in Spanish her senior year, took National latin exams through level 4, and went into Latin in college, skipping the intro level and doing an advanced Latin her first semester of college,  and now is taking Intro to Italian in college.  She did the entire Form Series starting in 5th grade with First Form.  She did Fourth Form w/Henle 1 over 8th and 9th grades. She competed in the National Exams 1 in 8th grade, level 2 in 9th grade, so I gave her Latin 1 and 2 for getting through Fourth Form.  Then because we were familiar with the Form series, we moved into Henle 2 for 10th and part of 11th grade, then did part of Henle 3 in 11th grade for Latin 3 and 4 credits.  

Next kiddo did Latin from elementary school also, but we took a different path for her because we were working with a group in co-op that had different needs. So she did Latina Christiana 1 in 4th grade, Latina Christiana 2 in 5th grade, so started First Form in 6th grade.   We worked through 9th grade and got through most of Third Form before she decided she didn't want to continue with Latin.  So I gave her a Latin 1 credit, and she has taken Spanish in 10th and 11th grades for her 2 years of high school language in the same language.  If she had done First through Third Form in 8th grade and up I probably would have just given her the 2 credits of Latin, but I didn't want her to go most of high school without language study, so we moved onto Spanish.  She will not be going into languages in college.

[2_girls_mommy]

On 2/2/2021 at 3:55 PM, ALB said:

There are no hard and fast rules here!  It really just depends on what you and she want from it.  My dd has through all 4 forms and Henle I and II.  She will keep going through AP Latin and has no desire to add a modern language to that.  

My ds went through Second Form and then moved on to Spanish.  He dreaded Latin and wanted something that felt more immediately practical.  That was hard for me because I have been so committed to Latin and have learned it right along with my kids.  

I think the ideal would be to do both a modern language and continue a classical language to some degree, but that's not going to be realistic for everyone.  If you just want vocabulary, there are other ways to accomplish that.  Probably the most useful Latin vocabulary to know are the prepositions and how they combine with verbs to vary the meanings.  Obviously, the further you progress in Latin the more vocabulary you will have.

This is very similar to my two!