Can someone compare Mr. D and Derek Owens Algebra?

[Eos]

nm

Edited January 27, 2021 by Harpymom

[chilliepepper]

9 hours ago, Farrar said:

Since Mr. D's has gotten a bit of a bad rap in this thread, I feel somewhat obliged to defend it. The live class really does help and the work level is just right for my busy dancer in his full time program. Making it work for my kid who does like to take shortcuts has meant I do need to spot check the work periodically and check in that it's getting done. However, once we had a routine down, it has mostly worked pretty well for him and me. I feel like he's progressing and understanding and it's fine. He's not a very academic kid, so I feel good that he'll be able to go through calculus before the end of high school and we'll probably have him finish out math at the community college next year. When he was mostly done with Mr. D's Algebra II, he placed into college precalc when he took the Accuplacer (which, it's a really cruddy test, but still, I felt fine about that) so I feel reasonably confident that he'll be able to place into calc after the Mr. D's precalc course for next year. 

"The work." It really all boils down to that. The Mr. D coursework has a LOT of practice problems, and I gather they are repetitious and not very challenging. Farrar you probably remember that based on J's testing, we were advised that programs requiring copious practice problems would not be a good fit for him, but that if he insisted on continuing with Mr. D, he could skip a lot of them. He did, and he does. And I'm honestly just not sure this is a good idea, especially when he has an i-dotting, t-crossing mom like me. I would prefer for him to be in a program that didn't have so much repetition in the first place, or if it did, that the problems be challenging enough to take him down a notch or two so that he sees the purpose in doing them---while at the same time not making him think that he's just not good at math. A tricky balance...but I guess that's to be expected with a tricky kid.

In other words, you were right.  🤣 At the time I was trying to balance your recommendations with getting buy-in from him in the midst of a huge transition. At this point, I think I will lay it out on the line...since he's the one asking for a curriculum change, I will give him the options of gutting out Mr. D to the end of Algebra 1 (and revisiting the schedule and sticking to it), or jumping in to DO and embracing the amazing benefit of having someone grade his work. Enough of this in between garbage.

For next year, options will include live DO, AOPS (live? I've heard how fast that moves; would be a shock for him), or community college (but dang it's expensive!).

[Farrar]

CC is expensive, but I always think, well, so is ending up with a year of hand-wringing and wasted time.

[chilliepepper]

Just now, Farrar said:

CC is expensive, but I always think, well, so is ending up with a year of hand-wringing and wasted time.

You are not wrong. 🙂

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, chilliepepper said:

For next year, options will include live DO, AOPS (live? I've heard how fast that moves; would be a shock for him), or community college (but dang it's expensive!).

Let me know if you want to coordinate over an online AoPS class. I do teach them. 

You know they are text-based, by the way? 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[melmichigan]

Everything I'd say about this has already been said, the exception is that in DO they do more than one video per lesson. 😅  Sometimes a lot more. Did the go through the workbook sample, they read and take notes to fill in their "workbook" from the videos?  That becomes their textbook.  It's not simply watching the videos.

[chilliepepper]

9 hours ago, melmichigan said:

Did the go through the workbook sample, they read and take notes to fill in their "workbook" from the videos?

Are you saying that there is a workbook sample somewhere? If there is, can you direct me to it?

[RootAnn]

If you go to lulu.com and search for Derek Owens, they should come up.

https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/derek-owens/algebra-1-semester-1-student-workbook/paperback/product-1zmgwmdp.html?page=1&pageSize=4

You can also print them yourself as you go as I think the files are available once you are registered for the course.

Edited January 30, 2021 by RootAnn
Correcting autocorrect

[lmrich]

2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

If you go to lulu.com and search for Derek Owens, they should come up.

https://www.lulu.com/en/us/shop/derek-owens/algebra-1-semester-1-student-workbook/paperback/product-1zmgwmdp.html?page=1&pageSize=4

You can also print them yourself as you go as I think the files are available once you are registered for the course.

You can print them as you go or you can import them into an app like Notability and write on them there. If your student does not take good notes he /she will not have a complete 'text' from which to study. My son, who tutors a lot of kids in Derek Owens' class, has noted it gets frustrating to ask a kid to go review a formula and it is not written or it is written down incorrectly. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:58 PM, Clemsondana said:

I don't know how a mom needs to implement this in a class that she is running, especially if the kids won't believe that they can't just keep dragging it out.  Daily requirements?  Weekly?  A date at which it must be done?  I'd even be fine with letting them go back to a previous curriculum for the subject - they can pick but then it needs to be done.  They can even use a test-out option - if the work is boring, let them take a test showing that they already know it and they can do less homework.  It's an option I've offered to students in the past - if it's boring and easy, just take the exams and we'll do 'credit by exam' without the homework to pull your grade up.  Nobody has ever taken me up on it because most recognize that they don't actually know the material, but it's a valid option.  

It might not be relevant to OP, but "how a mom needs to implement this in a class that she is running"... ...another possible method could be to have an outside "moderator". Set a date on which you will take a sample of the student's work to a friend or neighbour and discuss it with them. (This person does not need to know the subject as such, or even necessarily count up marks you've done. They just be willing to have a discussion, however cursory, about the work). Clearly you can't move that discussion however much the student pleads, so now there's a logic behind whatever deadline is set. This is a thing schools, colleges and universities do with their assessed work (with variations).

Another technique might be to go ahead and set that exam (as if doing the credit-by-exam route)... ...but tell the student that they can bring a piece of paper in with notes to help them. Feel free to discreetly strew a couple of books about note-taking around (or, if they were already there but getting ignored, put them somewhere slightly more obvious), but don't teach them how to take notes unless they specifically ask. Some students put more effort into the "exam aid" that is "their secret shortcut" than they do into the "official" learning, thinking this is a clever way of getting out of learning - and not realising that this is, in fact, another way to learn the material. If this works, you can continue doing this occasionally alongside whichever curriculum is used in future.

[Murrayshire]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:18 PM, ByGrace3 said:

We are Mr D Math users . . . we have never used DO, though we considered it. As to the videos . . . we do the live classes, so there is one class for an hour one time per week, and my kids have RARELY every watched any other videos. The class has taught the material well and they just do the coursework and quizzes for the rest of the week. They only watch additional videos when they get stuck. 

From what I have read DO is "more rigorous" and probably more advanced. However, as of this point (halfway done with Algebra 2) -- Mr D seems on target. Perhaps a more average track, but seems sufficient. And my kids like it -- but I do think the live classes make a difference in their interest in the classes -- they definitely feel more connected and invested in the live classes. 

At some point, math is just hard work. 

I will say one of the biggest reasons we chose Mr D over DO was if you choose DO where they grade, you don't get immediate feedback -- and that was a big deal to me. I felt like they need to know how they did to see if they really got it or not. And I didn't want to grade it my self because a large part of the reason we outsource math is to take me mostly out of the equation. 

Hey ByGrace3!! Not meaning to de-rail this thread; apologies OP... (We are Mr. D users as well. Ds is happy with it, but I feel like next year for Geometry he would benefit more with a live online class opposed to the AYOP that he's been doing) For the live classes once a week, is your student able to re-watch the live lesson? My ds does like to refer back to lesson videos throughout the week.  Thanks!

 

[Blossom'sGirl]

This year, I have one son taking the Mr.D PreCalc live class and one taking DO Alg 2 with grading.  I like them both for the student taking them.  Mr. D's class is great for those who don't " get" math very quickly.  I would have never imagined this son to do so well with PreCalc.  I'm not a fan of open book, multiple choice tests but it works for him.

My other son really likes DO math (and he's not one to gush on any schoolwork). After 17 years of homeschooling, I'm done trying to do so much myself.  I bought the $50 spiral bound course books from Lulu and I paid for the grading.  Ds is responsible for taking the picture of his homework and submitting it which he balked at in the beginning but now is fine with it.  It really isn't a big deal, and I get a copy of all his graded work so I can keep an eye on his progress. The tests are not multiple choice and are closed book.  He has already asked to continue with DO next year.

[ByGrace3]

1 hour ago, Murrayshire said:

Hey ByGrace3!! Not meaning to de-rail this thread; apologies OP... (We are Mr. D users as well. Ds is happy with it, but I feel like next year for Geometry he would benefit more with a live online class opposed to the AYOP that he's been doing) For the live classes once a week, is your student able to re-watch the live lesson? My ds does like to refer back to lesson videos throughout the week.  Thanks!

 

Yes! They post the video of their particular live class a couple of days after it happens. You also have access to the AYOP videos for each section. 

[Farrar]

2 hours ago, Murrayshire said:

Hey ByGrace3!! Not meaning to de-rail this thread; apologies OP... (We are Mr. D users as well. Ds is happy with it, but I feel like next year for Geometry he would benefit more with a live online class opposed to the AYOP that he's been doing) For the live classes once a week, is your student able to re-watch the live lesson? My ds does like to refer back to lesson videos throughout the week.  Thanks!

 

It's like Grace said. One time the class didn't load right (minor blip - they're usually very good) and he was like, no way am I watching the regular videos. This one is my class. 

Note that all the kids adore Mr. H. He's by far the most popular there.