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Does this math curriculum exist?


Masers
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8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmmm, I'm not sure. But you really could get something like Math Mammoth and work through that. That wouldn't set you back that much. 

I was just thinking I spent a lot of time in the iPad with a new baby while I’m nursing, so I was thinking I could capitalize on that time! 😉 But thanks, Math mammoth sounds like a solid program all around!

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1 minute ago, Masers said:

I was just thinking I spent a lot of time in the iPad with a new baby while I’m nursing, so I was thinking I could capitalize on that time! 😉 But thanks, Math mammoth sounds like a solid program all around!

I have to say, the foggy newborn time isn't my favorite time to learn new conceptual things 😄 . I'd just relax and enjoy the baby and get on this when things chill out a bit. 

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6 hours ago, Masers said:

Okay. 
i posted several days ago (“torn on math”) about whether I should stick with our current math program (Math lessons for a living education) or not. I’m pretty well convinced we should switch for next year, and I got some great suggestions from posters. (Thank you!) 

However, after looking through information and samples of all the different programs, I feel more confused than ever! 

Next year, I will have a first and fourth grader. Here is what I am looking for. Does this exist?! Or am I totally dreaming??

1. Rigorous and academically strong, in that the child would be able to easily assimilate into public school math in the future. (hopefully in an honors or advanced track...) We don’t know how long we will be homeschooling, but there is a very good possibility they will at least attend public high school. Even if they don’t, I *definitely* want them to have the option to enter a STEM field as an adult.

2. Appealing to my children. My kids LOVE stories and games. They LOATHE busywork, worksheets, and long lessons. They do not enjoy feeling challenged at all. Obviously I know they need to be challenged at times, so if they can at least somewhat be engaged while doing so, that would be great. They are both pretty emotional kids, which can often come out as anger and frustration, which is not fun for me. I want them to enjoy math!!
 

3. Simple and straightforward for me to teach. As I mentioned in my last post, math was always my weakest subject. I did fine in school, but never enjoyed math or felt at ALL confident. Looking forward to what higher levels of math entail (even just 5th and 6th grade, honestly), I feel dread in pit of my stomach. I felt totally adequate to teach basic math and the four orders of operation, but I will have to relearn even just fractions and decimals. (This is embarrassing for me to admit!) I think something that is well laid-out for me, includes good explanations and teaching instructions, would be important. At the same time, I don’t want anything long or involved, or to be flipping between a million different handbooks, workbooks, textbooks, etc. I know I will need to outsource junior high math, if we are still homeschooling, but I would like to be pretty involved in grade school to ensure they are really grasping the concepts. 
 

4. Relatively short and concise lessons. I will have these two kids, a preschooler, and a baby next year. We also have a ton of other stuff going on. I don’t want to spend my whole day doing homeschool lessons. One of the main reasons homeschooling appeals to me so much is that it allows so much flexibility. I like having our afternoons free, and I want that to continue next year. I try to do a lot family style, but I know they need individual instruction with math and language arts. So if it can be open-and-go, fairly quick to get through, and something the kids can do pretty independently (meaning, I will do a lesson/explanation for them, and then they can go aside and do the work on their own, while I teach another kid)...that would be ideal. 
 

So...does this exist? Or am I totally fooling myself? (I already know the answer!) 

What might get me closest to my impossible dream?

Thanks in advance!


 

The Good and the Beautiful is coming out with a new math curriculum this fall and I believe it will hit all your points! I love it now but the lessons are a tad long in some levels (no problem for me as I read and put in my own words) and in the new version it will be shorter, more concise, has stories, some games, and should be academically solid.

 

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5 hours ago, Masers said:

Thanks so much. 
i was wondering about TGTB. I was concerned that it might be the same thing as MLFLE, since they looked similar, but I read Kate Snow’s review of math curriculums. She was pretty direct that MLFLE is not enough and is not doing a mathy kid any favors. However, she was much more positive about TGTB and thought it was good with helping kids get a solid foundation. But if you noticed the same issues as the kids in MLFLE, that is discouraging.

do you know anything about horizons? I’ll go look at right start again. It’s so expensive, so I would hate to invest if we don’t like it. But you hit it on the nose that I probably need a decent amount of explanation and scriptedness for the higher levels. I really appreciate the feedback. 

 

I use TGAB and it explains things far better and in more depth than MLFLE. In fact I feel like it explains things too much sometimes. The other poster saying her students didn't know much they must not have been using the whole lesson and only doing the worksheets, which would leave major gaps and be insufficient. Besides all that it will be reformatted this Summer/Fall so any previous experience won't be the same anyhow. From what I've read it will be better, far better than it is now (and I like it now!).

Other curriculums that may fit your needs in Mcruffy Press it has fun stuff, colorful, solid and is easy to follow. Kate snow also recently came out with math but it may only be certain ages.

You could easily do MM and then add in math stories for the story part. My kids like the mathematicians are people too books and there are many others (can't think of the titles off the top of my head).

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49 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

One thing I was thinking of with respect to your husband... could he do SOME of the math on the weekends or something, just to make sure you're staying on course? Or would the kids rebel if they had some math on the weekend and maybe a break from math during the week? 

Yes, he could. That’s not a bad thought. The kids would rebel unless I made a “deal” with them, like no math on Friday but do 30 min with dad in Saturday. But I think they’d be up for it in that case. I think I might do something like that with my fourth grader for sure!

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Just now, Masers said:

Yes, he could. That’s not a bad thought. The kids would rebel unless I made a “deal” with them, like no math on Friday but do 30 min with dad in Saturday. But I think they’d be up for it in that case. I think I might do something like that with my fourth grader for sure!

I think that could be a good way to try to run it! I haven't tried it, though, so I'm curious whether it works for other people or tends to be some sort of horrible disaster 😉 . But from my base of "no experience whatsoever," it sounds doable. 

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21 minutes ago, seemesew said:

I use TGAB and it explains things far better and in more depth than MLFLE. In fact I feel like it explains things too much sometimes. The other poster saying her students didn't know much they must not have been using the whole lesson and only doing the worksheets, which would leave major gaps and be insufficient. Besides all that it will be reformatted this Summer/Fall so any previous experience won't be the same anyhow. From what I've read it will be better, far better than it is now (and I like it now!).

Other curriculums that may fit your needs in Mcruffy Press it has fun stuff, colorful, solid and is easy to follow. Kate snow also recently came out with math but it may only be certain ages.

You could easily do MM and then add in math stories for the story part. My kids like the mathematicians are people too books and there are many others (can't think of the titles off the top of my head).

Thanks so much! My friend who uses TGTB is pretty rigorous and very conscientious, and I feel like she wouldn’t use the math if she felt like it was weak. She raves about it, which is what made me consider it in the first place. I hate to be all concerned about my kids being “ahead”, but if your kids had to transfer to public school, so you feel like they’d be more advanced than their grade level? I just want them to be very well prepared for their own sakes. I know they have gaps now. Sigh!

thanks, I know nothing about mcruffy! I think Kate snow’s program would be great, but she only has kindy out now. 
I’ve been looking over math mammoth this evening and it looks promising. It is definitely a little less polished and visually appealing (and yes, as shallow as it is, I like a little polish and appeal to our materials!), but I won’t let that sway me. 😉

we love Living Math books, but I haven’t heard of the mathematicians are people too books! Thanks for the recommendation!

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8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think that could be a good way to try to run it! I haven't tried it, though, so I'm curious whether it works for other people or tends to be some sort of horrible disaster 😉 . But from my base of "no experience whatsoever," it sounds doable. 

I’m going to try it—maybe even starting now! Thanks! My poor husband has so many things on his plate that I save for our weekends, but he likes math and would probably actually enjoy this task. (Unless our son is being a pain, that is! 😉 

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13 hours ago, Masers said:

Thanks so much! My friend who uses TGTB is pretty rigorous and very conscientious, and I feel like she wouldn’t use the math if she felt like it was weak. She raves about it, which is what made me consider it in the first place. I hate to be all concerned about my kids being “ahead”, but if your kids had to transfer to public school, so you feel like they’d be more advanced than their grade level? I just want them to be very well prepared for their own sakes. I know they have gaps now. Sigh!

thanks, I know nothing about mcruffy! I think Kate snow’s program would be great, but she only has kindy out now. 
I’ve been looking over math mammoth this evening and it looks promising. It is definitely a little less polished and visually appealing (and yes, as shallow as it is, I like a little polish and appeal to our materials!), but I won’t let that sway me. 😉

we love Living Math books, but I haven’t heard of the mathematicians are people too books! Thanks for the recommendation!

 I do think it would be enough for reentering into school. Mostly because the explanations are so much better than my kids got in school. As for advanced TGAB math is not advanced but that is easily fixed by 1, taking the placement and putting your kids where they should be and 2, working ahead a level. 

I do think you'd probably like Mcruffy press color math though it is more like school math and very good! 

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2 hours ago, seemesew said:

 I do think it would be enough for reentering into school. Mostly because the explanations are so much better than my kids got in school. As for advanced TGAB math is not advanced but that is easily fixed by 1, taking the placement and putting your kids where they should be and 2, working ahead a level. 

I do think you'd probably like Mcruffy press color math though it is more like school math and very good! 

Thank you! In an ideal world, I’d homeschool until high school age, and we’d like them to then be enter advanced math tracks. My husband and I both attended the same large, very good public high school. He was on the highest advanced math track, so he did honors algebra II as a 9th grader, pre-calc as a sophomore, calculus BC as a junior, and an advanced problem solving class as a senior (with like 6 kids in the class total). He would have been well prepared to do any math field. My husband took honors calculus in college and said it was sooo much easier than high school calc. My sister (who went into a medical field), and my brother, who went on to be an engineer, breezed through their college math classes, too. I was on the regular honors math track and ended up demoting myself as a sophomore (after struggling through geometry) to do the regular math track, which was super easy (and really boosted my confidence, lol). However, I do NOT feel that I would have been able to do any sort of STEM field in college. I was NOT well prepared for higher level math like calculus. Fortunately, I got dual enrollment from our community college for math, and I entered a liberal arts major, and so I never had to take any math in college. It would have been such a struggle for me if I had. This is a very long-winded way of explaining that I really want my kids to do well in math and be well-prepared to test into an advanced track in high school. I was just wondering if TGTB would do the trick. And it might, because I don’t feel like my math instruction in elementary school was particularly great—nothing very challenging, probably very basic regular level math—and I still tested into the honors track in junior high. (Although you can see that I then struggled and took myself off of it. However, my sister and brother, who had the same elementary math as me, both excelled in junior high and high school math, so I’m sure it’s just a difference of being naturally mathy or not. Probably too early to know for sure for my kindy kid, but I can see that my 3rd grader has the natural inclination, so I think as long as he has a good, solid program in elementary, he’d do fine.)

 

Sorry for the novel! RIght now I am leaning towards Math Mammoth for oldest and Right Start or TGTB for younger son, but still feeling up in the air! REALLY appreciate everyone’s input. You can see that I am probably way over-thinking things, and that I was maybe a bit of a high-strung student myself, who has now become a high-strung parent! 😉 Thanks again!

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3 hours ago, Masers said:

Sorry for the novel! RIght now I am leaning towards Math Mammoth for oldest and Right Start or TGTB for younger son, but still feeling up in the air! REALLY appreciate everyone’s input. You can see that I am probably way over-thinking things, and that I was maybe a bit of a high-strung student myself, who has now become a high-strung parent! 😉 Thanks again!

That sounds reasonable! I'd still lean towards Right Start, but I may be prejudiced 😄 . And it's not like I used either program myself! I just tend to think that a program like Right Start, that actually demonstrates the math concepts, might be easier to deal with than a program that assumes you can explain things conceptually. 

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3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

That sounds reasonable! I'd still lean towards Right Start, but I may be prejudiced 😄 . And it's not like I used either program myself! I just tend to think that a program like Right Start, that actually demonstrates the math concepts, might be easier to deal with than a program that assumes you can explain things conceptually. 

That is the beauty of Math Mammoth - all the teaching is written to the student and does not rely on the parent explaining or demonstrating anything. Right Start is certainly a strong choice, but no one should shy away from Math Mammoth with visions that they will be suddenly called upon to explain least common denominators or the distributive property. Math Mammoth's explanations are very clear and comprehensible to most kids. They build up concepts incrementally with pictorial demonstrations, explanations and practice problems.

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1 minute ago, wendyroo said:

That is the beauty of Math Mammoth - all the teaching is written to the student and does not rely on the parent explaining or demonstrating anything. Right Start is certainly a strong choice, but no one should shy away from Math Mammoth with visions that they will be suddenly called upon to explain least common denominators or the distributive property. Math Mammoth's explanations are very clear and comprehensible to most kids. They build up concepts incrementally with pictorial demonstrations, explanations and practice problems.

Oh, I'm all good with Math Mammoth. It just doesn't seem to appeal to the OP for the earlier grades 🙂 . 

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1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

That is the beauty of Math Mammoth - all the teaching is written to the student and does not rely on the parent explaining or demonstrating anything. Right Start is certainly a strong choice, but no one should shy away from Math Mammoth with visions that they will be suddenly called upon to explain least common denominators or the distributive property. Math Mammoth's explanations are very clear and comprehensible to most kids. They build up concepts incrementally with pictorial demonstrations, explanations and practice problems.

 

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, I'm all good with Math Mammoth. It just doesn't seem to appeal to the OP for the earlier grades 🙂 . 

Thanks! I’ve been reading samples and reviews and going a little nuts over it (clearly). I am currently thinking maybe math mammoth for my older child and maybe right start (or math mammoth?) for my younger. I’m going to look at TGTB when they come out with their samples of their new program and see how it compares. But I think math mammoth might be the right choice as it balances shorter lessons, more independence, and rigor...just missing the fun piece. Haha. 

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Just now, Masers said:

But I think math mammoth might be the right choice as it balances shorter lessons, more independence, and rigor...just missing the fun piece. Haha. 

Need more math games and puzzles than you know what to do with, lol? I ran some homeschooling math classes last year (and still do on Zoom) and I have LOTS of ideas. 

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Need more math games and puzzles than you know what to do with, lol? I ran some homeschooling math classes last year (and still do on Zoom) and I have LOTS of ideas. 

Haha! Actually, I think that is one area where I am good! I love the fun stuff, and have lots of games, “fun” workbooks, Living Math books, etc., all Bookmarked. But please pass along anything you feel is exceptionally good! Thanks!!

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1 minute ago, Masers said:

Haha! Actually, I think that is one area where I am good! I love the fun stuff, and have lots of games, “fun” workbooks, Living Math books, etc., all Bookmarked. But please pass along anything you feel is exceptionally good! Thanks!!

Fair enough 🙂. Let me know if you need games that demonstrate specific concepts, though. That's what I tend to collect. 

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34 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Fair enough 🙂. Let me know if you need games that demonstrate specific concepts, though. That's what I tend to collect. 

Place value? Maybe some of the fourth/fifth grade concepts? I have stuff for younger kids (Especially orders of operations), but less for as they get older. 

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6 minutes ago, Masers said:

Place value? Maybe some of the fourth/fifth grade concepts? I have stuff for younger kids (Especially orders of operations), but less for as they get older. 

So, for what it's worth, I don't think order of operations is a concept. It's just something you memorize. 

Place value, on the other hand, is a hard one. I really like playing poker chip games for place value, where I let one color be a ten and the other color be a 1. We used to play blackjack and have bets in green (10) and blue (1) poker chips. We'd also play this game with poker chips: 

https://mathforlove.com/lesson/double-digit-and-dollar-digit/

I generally love the mathforlove site and recommend you explore the games they have on there. A LOT of games I've seen out there are really flash cards in disguise. The games on that site all demonstrate the ideas, which is much more important. 

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I highly suggest TGTB for your 1st grader. We have used it for the last 2 years and loved it. It is fun engaging and quick for all of us. I add in Kate Snow facts that stick book and occasional Beast unit. The lessons are a smidge light, but not at all light like master books. Much much more rigorous with the thinking required. The 1st and second grade books are definitely comparable with Singapore’s 1st and 2nd grade. We are able to work through the books quickly.  I read a bit ahead and Often summarized.  Our lessons are never long but we never used the math box. I had manipulatives and my kids don’t love games. (They end up arguing). Currently my 2nd graders (twins) are beginning TGTB 3rd grade. I’m bummed though. It doesn’t look as good. It feels really basic without the problem solving skills embedded. I think we can fly through the books before summer.  I’ll probably end up switching to Singapore 3 for next fall or just keep adding more beast. Again I LOVE the 1st and 2nd grade books.
 

(FYI. I bought right start for k and it’s was my biggest and most expensive curriculum mistake. I don’t like spiral in a lesson  and switching topics each day drove me nuts. I couldn’t see the forest through the trees and couldn’t accelerate because I was afraid to skip something they didn’t know.  Everything we did was review. I think they only learned through prodigy that year.  I found it very parent intensive, and I like teaching math). 

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36 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So, for what it's worth, I don't think order of operations is a concept. It's just something you memorize. 

Place value, on the other hand, is a hard one. I really like playing poker chip games for place value, where I let one color be a ten and the other color be a 1. We used to play blackjack and have bets in green (10) and blue (1) poker chips. We'd also play this game with poker chips: 

https://mathforlove.com/lesson/double-digit-and-dollar-digit/

I generally love the mathforlove site and recommend you explore the games they have on there. A LOT of games I've seen out there are really flash cards in disguise. The games on that site all demonstrate the ideas, which is much more important. 

Perfect! Thanks! 🙂

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18 minutes ago, SRoss5 said:

I highly suggest TGTB for your 1st grader. We have used it for the last 2 years and loved it. It is fun engaging and quick for all of us. I add in Kate Snow facts that stick book and occasional Beast unit. The lessons are a smidge light, but not at all light like master books. Much much more rigorous with the thinking required. The 1st and second grade books are definitely comparable with Singapore’s 1st and 2nd grade. We are able to work through the books quickly.  I read a bit ahead and Often summarized.  Our lessons are never long but we never used the math box. I had manipulatives and my kids don’t love games. (They end up arguing). Currently my 2nd graders (twins) are beginning TGTB 3rd grade. I’m bummed though. It doesn’t look as good. It feels really basic without the problem solving skills embedded. I think we can fly through the books before summer.  I’ll probably end up switching to Singapore 3 for next fall or just keep adding more beast. Again I LOVE the 1st and 2nd grade books.
 

(FYI. I bought right start for k and it’s was my biggest and most expensive curriculum mistake. I don’t like spiral in a lesson  and switching topics each day drove me nuts. I couldn’t see the forest through the trees and couldn’t accelerate because I was afraid to skip something they didn’t know.  Everything we did was review. I think they only learned through prodigy that year.  I found it very parent intensive, and I like teaching math). 

Eek, it’s just sooo hard to know without actually using it for awhile! So, I’m your opinion, TGTB is rigorous enough and sets a good solid foundation for math? That’s kind of a bummer about the 3rd grade book, though. My first grader will either be doing first or second grade math (he is doing first grade for MLFLE, but he probably has too many gaps and not solid enough of understanding of some concepts to go into second grade for more rigorous curriculums), so I would hate to have him do 1-2 years and then have to switch again. Ideally, I want something that we can stick with for the long haul, so they don’t have these gaps. 

How long were you doing math each day for right start?
Do you do Beast academy online or workbooks? 

what do your kids like the best? 
 

thanks so much! 

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Coming back to suggest Outschool. You could outsource math once or twice a week and look for classes specific to what your kids are struggling with or focus on classes specific to conceptual or discovery math. 
 

You’ve already received lots of curriculum suggestions, but I’ll add one more. Apologia. I haven’t heard much about it from other homeschoolers, but I think it looks hands on and engaging. 

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Good questions. My girl loves TGTB it will be hard to switch her. TGTB was easy to accelerate and because my kids know their facts from Kate snows books the lessons are about 30-40 min.  I combine lessons when we can.   TGTB does an excellent job with place value for the average kid. Beast 2A has a fun  unit on place value we did last year. My kids loved it and couldn’t wait to do pirate math, especially my boy. Beast is more his flavor.  I would love to get my hands on the upper levels of TGTB so we can see how in depth it is. I want my kids to love math and right now TGtB does that.  
With right start I swear my kids sat there why I tried to figure out what we were doing. Even after I read ahead. It was not open and go and  it was academically too easy. I probably should have started them with B.   I love the abacus though. We still pull it out. 

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16 hours ago, Masers said:

Eek, it’s just sooo hard to know without actually using it for awhile! So, I’m your opinion, TGTB is rigorous enough and sets a good solid foundation for math? That’s kind of a bummer about the 3rd grade book, though. My first grader will either be doing first or second grade math (he is doing first grade for MLFLE, but he probably has too many gaps and not solid enough of understanding of some concepts to go into second grade for more rigorous curriculums), so I would hate to have him do 1-2 years and then have to switch again. Ideally, I want something that we can stick with for the long haul, so they don’t have these gaps. 

How long were you doing math each day for right start?
Do you do Beast academy online or workbooks? 

what do your kids like the best? 
 

thanks so much! 

If your first grader is doing level 1 master books than he might not be ready for tgab level 2. I have used mlfle for a 3 years and its a good year behind tgab. Tgab K program is similar to level 1 mlfle in the concepts taught but it goes much deeper into them.

Whatever you choose do the placement! mlfle is behind all other curriculums I have tried.

As for the question about rigor I think it is. Its a little deceptive though because my son likes it so much sometimes I feel like maybe he isn't learning, lol! But he has been applying that learning to real life and not one of my other kids has done that with anything else we've used (they even had GOOD teachers in school and never had this). But you may need to summarize like the previous poster said as the wording gets long in some lessons.

 

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3 hours ago, AnneGG said:

Coming back to suggest Outschool. You could outsource math once or twice a week and look for classes specific to what your kids are struggling with or focus on classes specific to conceptual or discovery math. 
 

You’ve already received lots of curriculum suggestions, but I’ll add one more. Apologia. I haven’t heard much about it from other homeschoolers, but I think it looks hands on and engaging. 

Ooh, funny you mentioned Outschool! I had never heard of it before, and stumbled across it last week and was super intrigued. I think my son would love some of those classes! 
And Apologia does sound intriguing! I’m not seeing many reviews, but I’ll check into it further! Thanks! 🙂

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On 1/26/2021 at 7:27 AM, Masers said:

Sorry for the novel! RIght now I am leaning towards Math Mammoth for oldest and Right Start or TGTB for younger son, but still feeling up in the air! REALLY appreciate everyone’s input. 

Have you looked at MEP?  It is a full K-12 program out of the UK that is available for free.  It takes a bit of time to understand how to implement it, but it does have strong content for the teacher, and it has great puzzlers to challenge kids.  And since it is free, you can just look at it to see if you like it.

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3 hours ago, SRoss5 said:

Good questions. My girl loves TGTB it will be hard to switch her. TGTB was easy to accelerate and because my kids know their facts from Kate snows books the lessons are about 30-40 min.  I combine lessons when we can.   TGTB does an excellent job with place value for the average kid. Beast 2A has a fun  unit on place value we did last year. My kids loved it and couldn’t wait to do pirate math, especially my boy. Beast is more his flavor.  I would love to get my hands on the upper levels of TGTB so we can see how in depth it is. I want my kids to love math and right now TGtB does that.  
With right start I swear my kids sat there why I tried to figure out what we were doing. Even after I read ahead. It was not open and go and  it was academically too easy. I probably should have started them with B.   I love the abacus though. We still pull it out. 

Interesting! Yes, I think my sons would like TGTB the most, so I’d like to look at it in-depth. I’m really leaning towards math mammoth, though. But I’m not going to make a decision until I see the new release of TGTB. I might actually look at Kate snow’s program for my first grader, too. I think he might be ready for a second grade level, so I’ll have to see. Thanks for the info! That helps!

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35 minutes ago, seemesew said:

If your first grader is doing level 1 master books than he might not be ready for tgab level 2. I have used mlfle for a 3 years and its a good year behind tgab. Tgab K program is similar to level 1 mlfle in the concepts taught but it goes much deeper into them.

Whatever you choose do the placement! mlfle is behind all other curriculums I have tried.

As for the question about rigor I think it is. Its a little deceptive though because my son likes it so much sometimes I feel like maybe he isn't learning, lol! But he has been applying that learning to real life and not one of my other kids has done that with anything else we've used (they even had GOOD teachers in school and never had this). But you may need to summarize like the previous poster said as the wording gets long in some lessons.

 

Dang. Yes. I’m bummed that I used MLFLE for two years. I feel like I’ve set them back. At least I at least had them working a grade ahead, so hopefully they’ll be somewhat at grade level. 😞 my goal was to have them AHEAD, not behind! Gah. 

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8 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Have you looked at MEP?  It is a full K-12 program out of the UK that is available for free.  It takes a bit of time to understand how to implement it, but it does have strong content for the teacher, and it has great puzzlers to challenge kids.  And since it is free, you can just look at it to see if you like it.

No, I haven’t! But thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check it out! 🙂

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7 minutes ago, Masers said:

No, I haven’t! But thanks for the suggestion, I’ll check it out! 🙂

This nonprofit group got a grant from the UK government to research the best math teaching methods in Europe.  They found that the Hungarian approach was the most rigorous and the most based in educational theory for how children learn math. They took the Hungarian program and translated it into English, and then over the next 15 years created a full program K-12 including a complete 'how to teach' section for teachers.  It is a well researched, well designed program. Plus its free!

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1 minute ago, lewelma said:

This nonprofit group got a grant from the UK government to research the best math teaching methods in Europe.  They found that the Hungarian approach was the most rigorous and the most based in educational theory for how children learn math. They took the Hungarian program and translated it into English, and then over the next 15 years created a full program K-12 including a complete 'how to teach' section for teachers.  It is a well researched, well designed program. Plus its free!

Argh! So many options! 😜

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Just another angle. I have used/ am using RightStart 2nd edition. Currently, I have 1 child in level C and 1 in E. I have used levels A-E. It allows you to start algebra in 8th if you only do 1 level per grade with A in kindergarten. There are 140 lessons per level and a handful are enrichment and tests some of which I skip. The 2nd edition is way more teacher friendly than the 1st edition. I have found it mostly used and bought the e-workbooks since we have 5 children. Also i bought a cheeper balance from Rainbow resource....I bought other cheeper "off brand" manipulatives. Sometimes they dont work so well for a certain lesson (like their centimeter cubes weigh 1 gram), but mostly it works, or I make it;) I've upgraded some manipulatives as we go along and I see using it long term.

I dont find it time consuming mostly 15-20 min for A and only a bit more for B. C and D are more like 20-30 depending on focus of child and whether it is a geometry drawing lesson. Those take longer. E is longer like 45 min or an hour if my son is not focused. Some days though it's more like 30 min. I find that there is sometimes not enough drill. I use Math mammoth pages or more likely problems from Strayer-Upton, make my own, add flash cards or reciting facts, or  another game.....depends on the concept and the child. 

I would look at the placement on the RightStart website. Your daughter is probably in B. They have great e-mail and phone placement help too. They will help with a sticking concept too.

A is the most "jumpy". It is really just a playful and interesting introduction to formal math...I really like it for 5 year olds;) The later levels (D and E) are more like several lessons on 1 topic then move on and come back later more in depth. C drove me nuts with the first child. It is going better this time around. It is kind of a transition level and also stretches math thinking. Older had not much patience for it;) Also the objectives in the front of each book are a great help for kbowing what to focus on and what is just an introduction.

Sorry for the novel...let me know if you have any questions.

Also, I'd do math mammoth for older, unless he's really hands on or pencil phobic then I'd talk to RightStart about placement. I'd do RightStart with younger. Math Mammoth is visually cluttered and lots of black and white. They do have a color edition now! Also RightStart will go into Math Mammoth well if you want to switch younger later. Both these programs are written by mathematicians and have a good long track record. These were important points for me.

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1 hour ago, countrymum said:

Just another angle. I have used/ am using RightStart 2nd edition. Currently, I have 1 child in level C and 1 in E. I have used levels A-E. It allows you to start algebra in 8th if you only do 1 level per grade with A in kindergarten. There are 140 lessons per level and a handful are enrichment and tests some of which I skip. The 2nd edition is way more teacher friendly than the 1st edition. I have found it mostly used and bought the e-workbooks since we have 5 children. Also i bought a cheeper balance from Rainbow resource....I bought other cheeper "off brand" manipulatives. Sometimes they dont work so well for a certain lesson (like their centimeter cubes weigh 1 gram), but mostly it works, or I make it;) I've upgraded some manipulatives as we go along and I see using it long term.

I dont find it time consuming mostly 15-20 min for A and only a bit more for B. C and D are more like 20-30 depending on focus of child and whether it is a geometry drawing lesson. Those take longer. E is longer like 45 min or an hour if my son is not focused. Some days though it's more like 30 min. I find that there is sometimes not enough drill. I use Math mammoth pages or more likely problems from Strayer-Upton, make my own, add flash cards or reciting facts, or  another game.....depends on the concept and the child. 

I would look at the placement on the RightStart website. Your daughter is probably in B. They have great e-mail and phone placement help too. They will help with a sticking concept too.

A is the most "jumpy". It is really just a playful and interesting introduction to formal math...I really like it for 5 year olds;) The later levels (D and E) are more like several lessons on 1 topic then move on and come back later more in depth. C drove me nuts with the first child. It is going better this time around. It is kind of a transition level and also stretches math thinking. Older had not much patience for it;) Also the objectives in the front of each book are a great help for kbowing what to focus on and what is just an introduction.

Sorry for the novel...let me know if you have any questions.

Also, I'd do math mammoth for older, unless he's really hands on or pencil phobic then I'd talk to RightStart about placement. I'd do RightStart with younger. Math Mammoth is visually cluttered and lots of black and white. They do have a color edition now! Also RightStart will go into Math Mammoth well if you want to switch younger later. Both these programs are written by mathematicians and have a good long track record. These were important points for me.

Thanks, I agree with you. I think right start looks ideal for kindy-first grade, and math mammoth for later. I also like that they have good track records and see, very mathematically sound. I keep seeing every single review say that right start is very time and teacher intensive, and that’s the main hesitation for me. Although good to hear that you get through lessons more quickly. I have seen reviews that say that math mammoth is not good for moms who need extra Instruction and hand-holding, so that is my hesitation with that program! (Although other posters on here disagree, so who knows!) I still like the sound of TGTB, but I do agree that the unproven track record is concerning. I like that a lot of moms can say, “my kid did math mammoth and ended up with great SAT scores and majored in math”, you know? I should have thought more about that with MLFLE...there aren’t those testimonials out there...just math-phobic moms like me who are like, “oh, it’s so easy and wonderful!” Lol. 

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Well I did use Abeka for 1st grade for my oldest.....RightStart B takes less time for me;) It is teacher intensive through C, but so far my younger than 3rd graders arent independent at all, and are way more productive under my nose. RightStart makes good use of my time. D and E move toward more independence, especially in warm up exercises, but still have me actively involved in teaching. My oldest isn't self directed anyway so I view it as time efficient as well as me having to be there. I had him do some multiplication lessons from math mammoth this year because he was stuck. I think they took as much time from me. Math is just teacher intensive;)

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1 hour ago, countrymum said:

Well I did use Abeka for 1st grade for my oldest.....RightStart B takes less time for me;) It is teacher intensive through C, but so far my younger than 3rd graders arent independent at all, and are way more productive under my nose. RightStart makes good use of my time. D and E move toward more independence, especially in warm up exercises, but still have me actively involved in teaching. My oldest isn't self directed anyway so I view it as time efficient as well as me having to be there. I had him do some multiplication lessons from math mammoth this year because he was stuck. I think they took as much time from me. Math is just teacher intensive;)

Very true! I think I just need to restructure how we do school so that I can have individual time with each kid, without the other 3 clamoring for my attention. I just need to figure out what that will look like for us. But I definitely need to accept that whatever new curriculum we choose, it is going to take more time and focus than our current program, and that is okay!

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I usually teach younger math lesson while older does warm up. Then i teach his while she works on the practice part. I do turn some of the "games" into worksheets. Not all of them, because sometimes the oral practice with mom is just what someone needs. It's not bery hard. I read the game directions, then jot down drill problems based on it. I do a parent intensive spelling program with them together, and do 1 on 1 language lessons. 1 does independent work while i do language and perhaps science with the other. We break for "morning" time about 10 or so to give the toddlers a refresh time. I am teaching them to play together without me in the a.m. and simultaneously teaching my school aged ones to focus with noise....a great lifelong skill!

I'm not sure how next year will work when I add a Ker student. Right now, I do phonics with him for about 15 min 3-4 days a week and math about 2x a week.....next year that will go up.

Just some ideas.... 

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21 hours ago, Masers said:

Ideally, I want something that we can stick with for the long haul, so they don’t have these gaps. 

Do you do Beast academy online or workbooks? 

Changing methods midway does seem to create gaps, because they approach things in a different order.  The books I know best are Beast Academy, because that’s what we’re using. From what you’ve said about your kids not liking frustration, BA may not be a good match, because a degree of frustration is designed in. As well, a friend who wasn’t so mathy found that Math Mammoth worked better for her because when her son got stuck with BA, she wasn’t sure how to solve it herself to help walk him through it, and with MM, it was more straightforward.

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16 hours ago, countrymum said:

I usually teach younger math lesson while older does warm up. Then i teach his while she works on the practice part. I do turn some of the "games" into worksheets. Not all of them, because sometimes the oral practice with mom is just what someone needs. It's not bery hard. I read the game directions, then jot down drill problems based on it. I do a parent intensive spelling program with them together, and do 1 on 1 language lessons. 1 does independent work while i do language and perhaps science with the other. We break for "morning" time about 10 or so to give the toddlers a refresh time. I am teaching them to play together without me in the a.m. and simultaneously teaching my school aged ones to focus with noise....a great lifelong skill!

I'm not sure how next year will work when I add a Ker student. Right now, I do phonics with him for about 15 min 3-4 days a week and math about 2x a week.....next year that will go up.

Just some ideas.... 

thanks! I switched things around a bit today, similar to this schedule, and it seemed to work pretty well. We had been basically all doing the same things at the same time...I just need my 3rd grader to be able to work a little more independently. He has always been so needy and gives up on things so easily! My *kindergartner* is much more independent and focused! Sigh! 

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6 hours ago, Eilonwy said:

Changing methods midway does seem to create gaps, because they approach things in a different order.  The books I know best are Beast Academy, because that’s what we’re using. From what you’ve said about your kids not liking frustration, BA may not be a good match, because a degree of frustration is designed in. As well, a friend who wasn’t so mathy found that Math Mammoth worked better for her because when her son got stuck with BA, she wasn’t sure how to solve it herself to help walk him through it, and with MM, it was more straightforward.

Yeah, beast was a disaster for my easily frustrated kiddo. Maybe it will be a better match for my younger son. He doesn’t seem to be as easily frustrated. I’d like to try it in a few years with him, because it does look like a great program. So you do the books, though, and not the online version?

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My 4th grader is not very independent either. A checklist and being 9.5 seem to help some. I have been working him to self motivation this year;) Patiently and persistently training children is as hard (or harder) as teaching them, hang in there, and don't give up on good habits;)

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1 hour ago, Masers said:

Yeah, beast was a disaster for my easily frustrated kiddo. Maybe it will be a better match for my younger son. He doesn’t seem to be as easily frustrated. I’d like to try it in a few years with him, because it does look like a great program. So you do the books, though, and not the online version?

I think for easily frustrated kids, doing it occasionally isn't a bad idea 🙂 . I do think working on frustration tolerance is a good idea... but maybe not every day. 

We were doing Beast at way younger ages than it's aimed it, which meant DD8 could do the concepts but couldn't handle the level of frustration. Now she can manage the level of frustration but she's past the concepts 😛 . We still do puzzles of that kind sometimes, but it's not the main course for us. 

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2 hours ago, countrymum said:

My 4th grader is not very independent either. A checklist and being 9.5 seem to help some. I have been working him to self motivation this year;) Patiently and persistently training children is as hard (or harder) as teaching them, hang in there, and don't give up on good habits;)

For sure! Working on character training and stuff like resilience, persistence, etc. we’re some of my major goals with homeschooling. I feel like I’m failing majorly...I just want to snap at him constantly. Like...just DO it! You’d have been done an hour ago if you just did the work! 😜

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2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think for easily frustrated kids, doing it occasionally isn't a bad idea 🙂 . I do think working on frustration tolerance is a good idea... but maybe not every day. 

We were doing Beast at way younger ages than it's aimed it, which meant DD8 could do the concepts but couldn't handle the level of frustration. Now she can manage the level of frustration but she's past the concepts 😛 . We still do puzzles of that kind sometimes, but it's not the main course for us. 

That’s true...there’s nothing to say we couldn’t just do it occasionally!

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23 hours ago, Masers said:

So you do the books, though, and not the online version?

We do the books, yes. I haven’t tried the online version. We use other resources like games and Kate Snow books and sometimes “newspapers” that I write up with goofy bogus news and a Puzzle of the Day that is related to whatever needs more practice at the moment. 

I think BA has a new book of puzzles based on Gr. 2 concepts that could be used occasionally. 

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1 minute ago, Eilonwy said:

We do the books, yes. I haven’t tried the online version. We use other resources like games and Kate Snow books and sometimes “newspapers” that I write up with goofy bogus news and a Puzzle of the Day that is related to whatever needs more practice at the moment. 

Wow, you are creative! 😆

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Could your husband make videos of the math lessons that you show to your kids each day? 
Then you could watch them together and work through the assignment with your kids throughout the week. It could even be audio recordings, actually.

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17 minutes ago, cougarmom4 said:

Could your husband make videos of the math lessons that you show to your kids each day? 
Then you could watch them together and work through the assignment with your kids throughout the week. It could even be audio recordings, actually.

Hmm! That’s an interesting idea! I’m sure my husband would be on board for helping in whatever way he can...it’s just a hard season right now with little (no?!) spare time. I’m seeking refuge in the bathtub right now after being with the kids for the past 12 hours while my husband was at work. And he’s trying to juggle tantrums (I can hear my 3 year old screaming now) with getting the kitchen cleaned, instruments practiced, younger kids ready for bed...sigh! But I love the idea!! Thank you! (And now I better hop out and rescue him!)

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Yes, I understand it would be *one more thing* to add to the list. 😉

I’m toying with the idea myself for my daughter that quite often doesn’t want me to help, but does need instruction. I’ve been having success working with my tutoring students over zoom and realized I could do a similar thing with my daughter...it wouldn’t have to be in real time, but could be viewed later and more than once, if necessary. Anyways, I thought I’d throw it out there as an out of the box possibility.

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