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Posted (edited)

I know this has been discussed at length on other threads, but no matter what I type in the search, I’m just not getting the threads I *know* I’ve read before! I even remember one I posted in and @EKS explained why Lial’s wasn’t the most thorough for algebra 2—but I can’t find them!!! If anyone can link them, I’d super appreciate it.
 

If you feel inclined to chat about this (much talked about) topic, then please feel free to do so here. Specifically, I’m researching to figure out what to use and the main contenders are Derek Owens, Mr. D, and WHA. 
 

Thank you so much!

Edited by mmasc
  • mmasc changed the title to Algebra 2 DO/MrD/WHA (or thread link please!)
Posted (edited)

We finished Algebra 2 with another curriculum you are not considering, and then did Algebra 2 again with DO.

Dd took DO's semester 1 exam and did fine after finishing curriculum #1, but hadn't done any of the topics in his second semester Algebra 2. Some of it was repeated in his PreCalculus, but at a deeper level.

We had done some DO before (prealgebra and physical science), so I was pretty sure that was where we needed to go for PreCalculus. Dd basically did 3 semesters of Algebra 2 as a result (actually it worked out to a full calendar year). It was fine and she was well-prepared for precalculus. I did have her use a tutor for precalculus along with the self-grading, which worked well. She did DOs PreCalculus in 8 months- it tends to be a long course- so she was well prepared, I guess.

All of this is to say... what curriculum did you use for Alg 1/ geometry? Did it work for you? What math are you thinking about after Algebra 2? My dd didn't like Mr. D's videos, but they are just right for other kids. Definitely have your dc weigh in on videos.

Some threads (I searched "Algebra 2" in quotes, and using advanced search, just looked on the high school board). You might try searching your particular curriculum in quotes with "Algebra 2". I do recall that Mr D gives really weird results by itself. Good luck!

HTH!

Algebra 2 questions - High School and Self-Education Board - The Well-Trained Mind Community

Showing results for '"algebra 2"' in content posted in High School and Self-Education Board. - The Well-Trained Mind Community

Edited by MamaSprout
added results list instead of duplicate link
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Posted

My DD did WHA Alg 1, geometry, Alg 2, and AP Stats. She’s now doing Blue Tent Honors Pre-Calc (along with AP Stats). BT Pre-Calc is the hardest she’s had to work for an A in math, but all of the above have been good, thorough classes. She was well prepared for ACT math and scored well (despite NOT being a math lover). She’ll continue on with Blue Tent for AP Calc next year(undecided whether she’ll do AB or BC). Hope that helps. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

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Posted
3 hours ago, TheAttachedMama said:

Well, my son is near finishing DO Algebra 2...and I have nothing but good things to say.   Maybe I can answer some specific questions?   

Thank you! Some questions:

Do you do the videos or the live class/videos option?

If you do the live class, do you watch the live class and then have the weeks worth of work to do on your own?

Or, if you did just videos, do you just work your way through it at your own pace?

my ds needs a plan with due dates and accountability.  he doesn’t do well with self pacing. 
 

when watching lectures and taking notes in the workbook, is it designed where he explains the concept, student should pause and work the practice problem, then continue and the problem is explained?

thanks!

 

Posted

@MamaSprout

thank you for your input! Ds used Lial’s for algebra 1 and got a low-ish B. We definitely plan to run through an algebra review this summer (maybe critical thinking company?—not sure yet). He’s using Holt for geometry. He’s doing well with it and says he prefers geometry. 
 

our math plan for hs is to take 4 years of ‘regular’ (not honors or AP) math courses. He has no idea what he wants to do career-wise, but is college bound. So, we’re planning for algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and then pre-calculus most likely. 

Posted
21 minutes ago, mmasc said:

Thank you! Some questions:

Do you do the videos or the live class/videos option?

If you do the live class, do you watch the live class and then have the weeks worth of work to do on your own?

Or, if you did just videos, do you just work your way through it at your own pace?

my ds needs a plan with due dates and accountability.  he doesn’t do well with self pacing. 
 

when watching lectures and taking notes in the workbook, is it designed where he explains the concept, student should pause and work the practice problem, then continue and the problem is explained?

thanks!

 

The live classes are only for people who can attend in person. If you live in the metro Atlanta area, they are offered at several locations. And even with those classes, the students will watch the recorded videos for the lessons that we don't cover in class (I am teaching DO algebra this year).   

And DO Algebra 2 is significantly harder than Lials Algebra 2. After completing Lial's we found our dd was not ready for DO's precalc at all.

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Posted
38 minutes ago, lmrich said:

The live classes are only for people who can attend in person. If you live in the metro Atlanta area, they are offered at several locations. And even with those classes, the students will watch the recorded videos for the lessons that we don't cover in class (I am teaching DO algebra this year).   

And DO Algebra 2 is significantly harder than Lials Algebra 2. After completing Lial's we found our dd was not ready for DO's precalc at all.

Ah, ok! I didn’t realize that. Maybe I got it mixed up with Mr D options. 
 

Helpful info about Lial’s. I want ds to be prepared for pre-calc, so I think Lial’s is out. 
 

as I mentioned in another thread, he needs to be prepared for pre-calc imo, but also isn’t a super motivated student. So I’m looking for that sweet spot between prepared and not overly challenging for him. 

Posted
2 hours ago, mmasc said:

@MamaSprout

thank you for your input! Ds used Lial’s for algebra 1 and got a low-ish B. We definitely plan to run through an algebra review this summer (maybe critical thinking company?—not sure yet). He’s using Holt for geometry. He’s doing well with it and says he prefers geometry. 
 

our math plan for hs is to take 4 years of ‘regular’ (not honors or AP) math courses. He has no idea what he wants to do career-wise, but is college bound. So, we’re planning for algebra 1, geometry, algebra 2, and then pre-calculus most likely. 

Does he like Holt? There are definitely Algebra 2 options. 

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, mmasc said:

He’s using Holt for geometry. He’s doing well with it and says he prefers geometry. 

I don't have any experience with your proposed classes, but I'll say that if he's saying he likes geometry better, I'd make sure he's actually solid on Algebra 1. You can't actually meaningfully move forward with algebra if you don't have the basic algebra concepts down... well, you can keep moving forward, and you can even keep getting good grades, but it won't stick. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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Posted

I considered all of those when we were looking. We landed on Mr. D, which from what I can tell is a step down in rigor from DO, but still seems to prepare them for precalculus. My dd is in Algebra 2 with Mr D this year. She went from hating math to loving it. My ds is in Algebra 1 with Mr D. He also hated math before and now loves it.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, MamaSprout said:

If you are thinking for running through Algebra 1 this summer, that might be a good way to try out Mr. D math. He has 6 and 11 week summer classes for Algebra 1/ Algebra 2 readiness: Summer Programs – Mr. D Live (mrdmath.com)

It looks like he hasn't put the 2021 dates up yet.

Ooooo.....that could be a great option for trying out Mr D AND getting in an algebra review. Thank you for this heads up!

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Posted
1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don't have any experience with your proposed classes, but I'll say that if he's saying he likes geometry better, I'd make sure he's actually solid on Algebra 1. You can't actually meaningfully move forward with algebra if you don't have the basic algebra concepts down... well, you can keep moving forward, and you can even keep getting good grades, but it won't stick. 

He definitely needs an algebra review. Even though I outsourced it, I love algebra and feel like if I had the right product in hand I could help him get in some good review before next year. 
 

I’m not sure why he likes geometry better, but I know I loved algebra and didn’t care one bit for geometry. 🙂 He seems to be going the opposite!

Posted
2 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

Does he like Holt? There are definitely Algebra 2 options. 

He likes geometry...I’m not sure if it’s because of the book, or just because it isn’t algebra lol. 
 

 

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Posted
6 minutes ago, mmasc said:

He definitely needs an algebra review. Even though I outsourced it, I love algebra and feel like if I had the right product in hand I could help him get in some good review before next year. 

I’m not sure why he likes geometry better, but I know I loved algebra and didn’t care one bit for geometry. 🙂 He seems to be going the opposite!

Yeah, it seems to be common to like one better than the other! 

Let me know if you need any conceptual troubleshooting for algebra 🙂 . I've seen a lot of kids with algebra issues in my life... 

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, it seems to be common to like one better than the other! 

Let me know if you need any conceptual troubleshooting for algebra 🙂 . I've seen a lot of kids with algebra issues in my life... 

Thank you so much! Right now, other than knowing that he needs a ‘review’ before algebra 2, I’m not really sure what kind of issues we might be tackling. There could be big gaping holes, or a simple lack of trying—either could be likely with my ds. 😉 He’s perfectly happy and content with Bs...so sometimes it’s hard to tell.

Posted
2 minutes ago, mmasc said:

Thank you so much! Right now, other than knowing that he needs a ‘review’ before algebra 2, I’m not really sure what kind of issues we might be tackling. There could be big gaping holes, or a simple lack of trying—either could be likely with my ds. 😉 He’s perfectly happy and content with Bs...so sometimes it’s hard to tell.

I'd have some gentle conversations with him and figure it out if I were you, I guess 😄. Or does that not work so well? 

Posted
20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'd have some gentle conversations with him and figure it out if I were you, I guess 😄. Or does that not work so well? 

Well, we’ll see...let’s just say he’s not real receptive to talking about algebra while still in geometry...🤣

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Posted
4 minutes ago, mmasc said:

Well, we’ll see...let’s just say he’s not real receptive to talking about algebra while still in geometry...🤣

Does he never have to use any algebra at all in geometry? You could just... sneak some in? 😛 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, mmasc said:

Thank you! Some questions:

Do you do the videos or the live class/videos option?

If you do the live class, do you watch the live class and then have the weeks worth of work to do on your own?

Or, if you did just videos, do you just work your way through it at your own pace?

my ds needs a plan with due dates and accountability.  he doesn’t do well with self pacing. 
 

when watching lectures and taking notes in the workbook, is it designed where he explains the concept, student should pause and work the practice problem, then continue and the problem is explained?

thanks!

 

Well, with Derek Owen's classes there is only one option:  pre-recorded videos.   There is a local class, but there isn't an online live class.   We normally prefer live classes for the social interaction, but the DO classes have worked out just fine.  Actually, it is sort of nice that they aren't live because you can pause them for as long as you like and won't miss something important.   You also don't have to wait on your classmates.   (That used to frustrate me in math class.). 

There are videos and practice problems every single day.   So, you get a lot more teacher interaction than a once-per-week meeting.  It just isn't live interaction. The student is supposed to take notes in their notebook and they work many, many practice problems together in the videos.   (Yes, they can pause the video if they need to.). Then they work homework problems and email them to the teacher.   If at any point there is a question, they email the teacher and he (or one of his TAs) sends help right away.  They are very responsive!    The thing I like best about DO is that *ALL* of the homework is painstakingly graded.   Each and every step is checked, and if the teacher ever suspects the student is lost, they make the student "re-do" it.   Many of these other online providers will just have the student input the "answer" into a computer.   This has really taught my children how to show work and how to write neatly enough for others to read.  🙂 

Regarding self-pacing:  Lack of due dates is a problem for us too!   And DO provides NO due dates.   He gives a suggested schedule (see syllabus page) that lists what he considers to be a "weeks worth" of math or science.   But---A student can work through the class as quickly or as slowly as they need.   This can be a good thing.   Let's say your child gets the flu and is running a fever.  If you miss a live class (or just aren't feeling your best and are thinking slowly), it can cause you to have to scramble and a student often starts to feel lost in math.  (And kids tend to label themselves as "bad" in math when really they just missed some key concept.)  So, the self-pacing is nice because we can only watch videos and do homework when we are thinking our best and ready to learn.   The BAD thing that can happen is that online-live classes with due dates become the priority and math  (with no due dates) gets put on the back burner.   I've decided that that simply won't be allowed to happen in our homeschool.  I explained to my child that math is a CORE subject (one of the most important) and that it NEEDS to happen each and every day.  Math is NOT an elective in our house, and it must be worked on each and every day.   So, I've implemented my own due dates.  If a weeks worth of math isn't completed by Friday, they are basically prevented from any screens over the weekend until they get it completed.   (That may sound harsh, but that is the only thing that has kept us on schedule.).  I've also helped them better plan out their days so that they have time for math.   In our house, math, Latin, and English happen before lunch *every* day...even if they have due dates in their other online classes.   Then they have the afternoon to work on their other online class stuff with due dates.   (I keep our mornings clear of online classes so this isn't messed up.). So that is what we do at my house for accountability.  We've done DO for several courses now, and this has worked out fine.

One thing you should know is that DO does provide a self-graded option.  It is just not advertised.   You have to email him and ask to do it.  It is half priced, he will send you the answer key with solutions, and it is up to you to grade all homework/tests/exams and calculate the grade at the end.  Even if you do that option, you are still welcome to email with questions.   We switched to that option because I wanted DS to go back and start correcting problems that he missed for added practice.    (And also because covid has hurt our family financially and I needed to save $$$!  🙂 ).  Now I grade a math homework each day.  If he misses one, I circle it and he gets another shot to find his mistake.   I've always taught math to mastery like that when he was younger, so this has been a natural extension for us.   If you do the self graded option, it helps if you know a little bit of math so you can tell if an answer is equivalent.   He provides pretty good solutions too... not just an answer key.

Another thing you should know is that DO Algebra II is a lot more meaty than most Algebra II classes.  It covers some basic trig and a lot of things typically done in a pre-calculus class.   You should also know that each and every step of each and every problem is covered VERY slowly in a lot of detail in the videos.   This is great if you find math challenging.   This can become painful if you tend to catch on to math concepts quickly.   (My DS is coming from AOPS classes where they often don't spell out "no brainer" steps and assume the student can follow along. That has been a big change for him switching to DO...but it teaches them patience too!).  

How challenging is Derek Owens?   Derek Owens is easier than AOPS and takes less time (even the honors class), but it is more challenging that many other math providers.  (There is NOTHING that comes close to AOPS in terms of challenge that I have ever found!).   DO math is probably the equivalent of the type of math you might take if you went to a really good private school.   

Edited by TheAttachedMama
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, mmasc said:

Ds used Lial’s for algebra 1 and got a low-ish B.

May I ask how you graded his work?  Was homework graded?  Did you give partial credit?

If you are thinking about Lial for Algebra 2, know that it is mostly review and extension--very little truly new material.  If he got a low B in Algebra 1, and you gave partial credit and didn't grade homework (or gave him full credit for completion), Lial may be a good choice.

Derek Owens does a fabulous review of Algebra 1 in the first part of his Algebra 2 course, and he always "activates prior knowledge" in his lectures.  His Algebra 2 course is much more challenging conceptually than Lial is.  Here is a comparison of DO and Lial that I did several years ago:

  • DO has a much more extensive and conceptual treatment of graphing throughout the course, specifically how graphs of various functions are shifted up, down, left, right, scaled, and flipped.  This is stressed over and over again whereas Lial mentions it in passing two times.
  • DO has a fuller discussion of complex numbers (including a bit of history), which includes graphing complex numbers in the complex plane and determining their absolute value.  
  • DO discusses factoring polynomials MUCH more extensively than Lial does.  Lial rehashes how to factor quadratics and then touches on factoring sums and differences of cubes and that is it.  DO introduces the remainder theorem, synthetic division, and the rational zeros theorem to deal with higher degree polynomials.  
  • DO's treatment of polynomials in general is far superior to Lial.  He discusses the end behavior of polynomial functions, repeated roots and what they mean graphically.  Eventually students are able to find the roots of functions like f(x)=x^4-5x^3-15x^2-5x-26.  
  • DO has a more extensive and conceptual discussion of e.
  • DO has a more extensive and conceptual treatment of graphing rational functions, including a detailed discussion of how to find vertical, horizontal, and oblique asymptotes.  Lial mentions vertical and horizontal asymptotes almost as an afterthought and only for very easy functions such as f(x)=2/(x-1) whereas DO talks about functions like f(x)=(x^2+x-6)/(2x+4).
  • DO has a more extensive and conceptual treatment of conic sections.
  • DO includes a chapter on sequences and series, and Lial does not.
  • DO includes two chapters on trigonometry (intro to trig and graphs of trig functions), and Lial does not.

Note that a student would likely need some support moving from Lial's Algebra 2 to DO's precalculus course.  

Edited by EKS
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Posted

@TheAttachedMama thank you so  much for that through review! It was truly very helpful. Many of the things you said resonate with me and our homeschool as well, so thank you. 
 

@EKS well, algebra 1 with Lial’s was through on online provider (myhomeschoolmathclass), so that low-ish B was just from tests and quizzes. No homework is graded. That’s actually something I like about DO. But I definitely don’t want this to be completely overwhelming for him if he’s coming from a place of unpreparedness.  
 

Hmmm...lots to think about here. I truly appreciate everyone’s feedback!

Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, mmasc said:

@TheAttachedMama thank you so  much for that through review! It was truly very helpful. Many of the things you said resonate with me and our homeschool as well, so thank you. 
 

@EKS well, algebra 1 with Lial’s was through on online provider (myhomeschoolmathclass), so that low-ish B was just from tests and quizzes. No homework is graded. That’s actually something I like about DO. But I definitely don’t want this to be completely overwhelming for him if he’s coming from a place of unpreparedness.  
 

Hmmm...lots to think about here. I truly appreciate everyone’s feedback!

I would email Derek Owens and ask him specifically.   I know that my son was very well prepared for Algebra II after taking only a 1 semester class of Algebra through AOPS.  (But, that class is like learning Algebra through a firehose....in a good way if there is such a thing.  hahah)

I just logged into DO algebra II class so I could look at the first couple of lectures / homework assignments / tests for you.  Here is the syllabus if you want to follow along (https://www.derekowens.com/CourseSyllabuses2.aspx?Location=Online&Day=Monday&Year=2019-2020&Course=Algebra 2&Teacher=Mr. Owens)

The first two weeks are spent with a VERY thorough review of solving linear equations (and lots of homework problems.). The student is also asked to "plug" various values of number in for a variable and solve.   Then they do a nice review of absolute values and inequalities.   There are also some word problems where they have to translate language into algebraic equations.      I bet if you ask, DO might even given you a sneak peak of the first test or homework.

DO doesn't have placement tests.   However, in my very humble opinion, I think that if your child could pass (with at least an 80%) the PreAlgebraB, and Intro to Algebra A placement tests...that they would be ready to take the Algebra II class through DO.   (Don't worry, the AOPS placement tests are WAY easier than the AOPS classes.  So don't be scared to attempt them.).  These placement tests might also be good diagnostic tools to help you snuff out any weak areas (or areas that need focused review).   

Edited by TheAttachedMama
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Posted
1 minute ago, TheAttachedMama said:

I know that my son was very well prepared for Algebra II after taking only a 1 semester class of Algebra through AOPS.  (But, that class is like learning Algebra through a firehose....in a good way if there is such a thing.  hahah)

LOL. Sorry, this is totally off-topic, buI I love that visual and I can't say I disagree... 

Posted
13 hours ago, ByGrace3 said:

I considered all of those when we were looking. We landed on Mr. D, which from what I can tell is a step down in rigor from DO, but still seems to prepare them for precalculus. My dd is in Algebra 2 with Mr D this year. She went from hating math to loving it. My ds is in Algebra 1 with Mr D. He also hated math before and now loves it.

@ByGrace3 I noticed on the Mr D website that there are actually other teachers than Mr D. Is your dc taking the class with Mr D or a different teacher? 

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, mmasc said:

 

Well, algebra 1 with Lial’s was through on online provider (myhomeschoolmathclass), so that low-ish B was just from tests and quizzes. No homework is graded. That’s actually something I like about DO. But I definitely don’t want this to be completely overwhelming for him if he’s coming from a place of unpreparedness. 

 Derek Owens calls something homework that is actually more like open book quizzes. What he calls practice problems are what I normally call homework. He grades the quizzes but not the homework. In other words he grades what he calls homework and does not grade what he calls practice problems.

I actually think that when you grade the homework and actually take off points for incorrect problems that's artificially lowering a student's grade. I always give 100% for completed homework. Of course they have to do all the problems correctly, but they're not given a choice about that.

Edited by EKS
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, EKS said:

 Derek Owens calls something homework that is actually more like open book quizzes. What he calls practice problems are what I normally call homework. He grades the quizzes but not the homework. In other words he grades what he calls homework and does not grade what he calls practice problems.

I actually think that when you grade the homework and actually take off points for incorrect problems that's artificially lowering a student's grade. I always give 100% for completed homework. Of course they have to do all the problems correctly, but they're not given a choice about that.

I disagree..or at least I think I do.  Maybe I am confused with how you renamed things.  🙂  🙂 

 I have taken Algebra I, Algebra II, and Physical science, and all homework is scanned in by the student and graded by Derek Owens or TA .   (the students are allowed to use their notes/book to do homework.).   At the end of each chapter there is a closed book/closed note test.   The test is proctored by the parent, scanned in by the student, and graded by Derek Owens.   At the end of each semester there is a cumulative semester exam which is proctored by the parent, scanned in by the student, and graded by Derek Owens.  He does provide some optional extra practice problems (only for some courses) as an aid to prepare for the more difficult exams.  Students do not need to do these problems.   And becuase they are optional, they do not need to turn them in for a grade.   He provides solutions for the optional extra practice problems for students to self check.

ETA:  I totally agree with you though, EKS, about missing homework problems and how it can really lower your grade if you aren't very careful!   He does give partial credit if you were on the right track.  And I have found that he is pretty generous with his grading and awarding points.  (Much more generous that I tend to be as a mama grading papers!).    The upside to how he grades is that it quickly teaches kids to double check their work before they turn it in!   Another upside is that it prepares them for classes that are run this way.   My mom is a college level calculus / physics teacher, and she also assigns grades for homework the same way that Derek Owen's does.  (IF you miss it, you lose points.).  But, one of the benefits of doing the self-grading option, is that I can insist that all homework is fixed until 100% accurate.   I think this has really helped my  children with mastery.  It is one thing to read a solution and say, "Oh, I get it."  It is another thing to read a solution, understand it in the moment, put it away, then solve the problem yourself.  

Edited by TheAttachedMama
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Posted
4 hours ago, mmasc said:

@ByGrace3 I noticed on the Mr D website that there are actually other teachers than Mr D. Is your dc taking the class with Mr D or a different teacher? 

My kids are both in classes with Mr D. They love him, but we have several friends kids in Mr H's classes and they have been equally enthusiastic about him.

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Posted

I will say, one of the biggest things I have been impressed with Mr D Math is the involvement of the teachers. Not only do they have several help sessions per week, but the students can email the teacher and they will respond. Mr D has even made personal videos explaining a topic to my daughter and emailed them. In the video he actually used her name and talked directly to her. I was shocked at that level of engagement. It has been a game changer for math in our house. Also, She is flying through the math in her honors chemistry so I know she really is learning. 

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Posted

@ByGrace3 that’s awesome to have that kind of personalized help!

As I understand it from the website, there is a once a week live class with homework assigned. Are there daily videos to watch with homework to complete? Or is it more of topical videos available where additional help is needed?

I’m trying to grasp the differences with the video schedule between DO and Mr D. I can and will watch samples of videos of course with ds, but I’m wondering how it plays out day to day. I think I have a grasp on how DO works regarding this. And I think my ds would benefit from this *daily* instruction and homework. Wondering if Mr D is like that too, but where the live class is more for going over homework and introducing new topics??? 
 

Mr D website says ‘assignments will be created with examples given from each section to be done during that week’. So do the daily videos correspond to those daily assignments? Or is it more of a weekly chunk?

I hope this is clear! I appreciate everyone’s responses. I can always contact the providers directly, but you all are SO helpful that I tend to come here first. 😊

Posted
1 hour ago, TheAttachedMama said:

I have taken Algebra I, Algebra II, and Physical science, and all homework is scanned in by the student and graded by Derek Owens or TA .

It's called homework, but I think it's misnamed.

1 hour ago, TheAttachedMama said:

He does provide some optional extra practice problems (only for some courses) as an aid to prepare for the more difficult exams.  Students do not need to do these problems.   And becuase they are optional, they do not need to turn them in for a grade.   He provides solutions for the optional extra practice problems for students to self check.

This is a misrepresentation of how his courses work.  The practice problems are an integral part of the package.  They should NOT be made optional by the parent, and they are NOT extra! Every DO course I've encountered has practice problems (I have experience with Prealgebra, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus, Calculus, and Physics).  If you choose to eliminate the practice problems, your student is not doing the entire course.  Frankly, even when you do all of the problems provided in the course (practice, "homework," tests, exam prep, and exams), the number of problems is on the lighter side (with the exception of the precalculus course, which has a more typical number of problems assigned).  

Just because the problems aren't graded doesn't mean they aren't important.  It simply means that Mr. Owens has decided that grading the practice problems is a bad idea for a number of reasons.  Practice is to work out the bugs, and students will make mistakes.  They shouldn't be penalized for this.  Also, practice problems should be checked in real time so that students have immediate feedback and they can fix mistakes right away.  Finally, if the practice problems were graded by Mr. Owens (or one of his TAs), it would make the price of the course go up.

1 hour ago, TheAttachedMama said:

He does give partial credit if you were on the right track.  And I have found that he is pretty generous with his grading and awarding points.

I agree with this.  

1 hour ago, TheAttachedMama said:

But, one of the benefits of doing the self-grading option, is that I can insist that all homework is fixed until 100% accurate.   I think this has really helped my  children with mastery.

This is why it's important to do the practice problems--that is where the reworking the problems until they are 100% correct comes in. 

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Posted
52 minutes ago, mmasc said:

@ByGrace3 that’s awesome to have that kind of personalized help!

As I understand it from the website, there is a once a week live class with homework assigned. Are there daily videos to watch with homework to complete? Or is it more of topical videos available where additional help is needed?

I’m trying to grasp the differences with the video schedule between DO and Mr D. I can and will watch samples of videos of course with ds, but I’m wondering how it plays out day to day. I think I have a grasp on how DO works regarding this. And I think my ds would benefit from this *daily* instruction and homework. Wondering if Mr D is like that too, but where the live class is more for going over homework and introducing new topics??? 
 

Mr D website says ‘assignments will be created with examples given from each section to be done during that week’. So do the daily videos correspond to those daily assignments? Or is it more of a weekly chunk?

I hope this is clear! I appreciate everyone’s responses. I can always contact the providers directly, but you all are SO helpful that I tend to come here first. 😊

The live class goes over new material. For example, say they are working on chapter 7 and this week they will cover topics 7.1-7.4. The teacher will teach the topics and then each student has their chapter coursework that they printed from the site. The teacher will teach, give examples, and then complete a few examples from each section (7.1. 7.2, 7.3 and 7.4) the students will then complete the coursework during the rest of the week leading up to the next class. The solutions to the coursework is available so they can check their work. Also each section (7,1, 7,2 etc) has an online quiz that they have 2 chances to take -- they do not have the answers to this. This helps them to know if they actually mastered the material. Every few lessons there is an online spiral review to check up and make sure they are grasping everything (These online quizzes and spiral review are auto graded and do not have solution keys, however, if they need help -- there are similar problems in the coursework to reference). Each chapter has a test. They are allowed 2 chances at all online quizzes and tests and they are all auto graded. 

They do post the recording of the live class a couple days afterwards. There are videos for each section as well, however, we only tend to need them when we run into a wall. Usually the live class plus the coursework is enough teaching for them to get it. 

So a week with Mr D Math might be something along the following;
Live class monday. Tuesday through Friday do a section of coursework each day with an online quiz each day.  Then of course, add in whenever there are spiral reviews or tests. The lay out on the website is easy to understand, easy for me as a parent to glance at and make sure everyone is on track. 

Hope that helps! 

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Posted

I’m sure none of you have been on pins and needles waiting for my update, 😉but since you all have given your time generously in posting, I thought I’d give a preliminary update. 

Ds and I watched sample videos of both MrD and DO together. We also discussed how each class is set up. After that, *I* was leaning Mr D bc

1) live class option

2) a bit less meaty than DO (I don’t want ds getting in over his head)

3) more of a defined schedule 

Well, right off DS declared he likes DO WAY better. I was pretty surprised that it was a landslide! I asked why of course. The most glaring reason came from the videos themselves, not the actual content. He said that Mr D talks too fast. And he didn’t like the quality of the Mr D videos. I admit that I noticed the quality seemed a touch poor, but I didn’t notice the fast talking. But he said he was zipping through the examples too fast. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 
 

conclusion: my gut tells me that either will be ok. My gut is also still leaning a bit with Mr D, but I don’t feel I should let my gut feelings trump DS’s since it’s his class. So for now, we’re planning on DO. I’m still concerned about the lack of hard due dates, but we did print out the syllabus that @TheAttachedMama linked, and DS said it looked like a good plan for him to follow. As an aside, he LOVES the schedule of his chemistry class (clover valley), so I think having the suggested DO schedule will help him stay on track. 
 

Thanks again for all of your feedback and help! I’m still open to further discussion if I’m missing something huge here. 😂

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Posted
28 minutes ago, mmasc said:

I’m sure none of you have been on pins and needles waiting for my update, 😉but since you all have given your time generously in posting, I thought I’d give a preliminary update. 

Ds and I watched sample videos of both MrD and DO together. We also discussed how each class is set up. After that, *I* was leaning Mr D bc

1) live class option

2) a bit less meaty than DO (I don’t want ds getting in over his head)

3) more of a defined schedule 

Well, right off DS declared he likes DO WAY better. I was pretty surprised that it was a landslide! I asked why of course. The most glaring reason came from the videos themselves, not the actual content. He said that Mr D talks too fast. And he didn’t like the quality of the Mr D videos. I admit that I noticed the quality seemed a touch poor, but I didn’t notice the fast talking. But he said he was zipping through the examples too fast. 🤷🏼‍♀️ 
 

conclusion: my gut tells me that either will be ok. My gut is also still leaning a bit with Mr D, but I don’t feel I should let my gut feelings trump DS’s since it’s his class. So for now, we’re planning on DO. I’m still concerned about the lack of hard due dates, but we did print out the syllabus that @TheAttachedMama linked, and DS said it looked like a good plan for him to follow. As an aside, he LOVES the schedule of his chemistry class (clover valley), so I think having the suggested DO schedule will help him stay on track. 
 

Thanks again for all of your feedback and help! I’m still open to further discussion if I’m missing something huge here. 😂

I hope it works out well for you.   The great thing about DO is that it goes month to month.  You could always start the first month, see how he does with due dates and the video lectures...then decide if you want to switch or quit.  

One mom on this board (I am forgetting who)...told their DC that they would pay them the DO tuition fee for every month they finished early for the school year.  That is one way to keep a kid motivated.   My children are still not motivated to finish when I offer that....so I had to be mean and say, "Finish your work by Friday or work on the weekend."   FWIW, I feel like the workload is VERY reasonable.   They only work an hour per day on math and that includes lots of time petting the dog, eating, and fighting with their siblings.   (eye roll). 

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Posted
44 minutes ago, mmasc said:

My gut is also still leaning a bit with Mr D, but I don’t feel I should let my gut feelings trump DS’s since it’s his class. So for now, we’re planning on DO.

For what it's worth, I've heard better stuff on these forums about DO than about Mr. D. 

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Posted

@mmasc My daughter is also in Clover Valley chemistry now and has also taken AoPS and DO math. She's in pre-calculus with DO now and we do the self grading option. She's always been good at math but never loved it which is why we dropped AoPS. But, I'll be honest--she never gets anything wrong in DO! And, she's not cheating (she does well in chem also) but I personally wish there was something more challenging even than DO that wasn't fully AoPS.

But, although doesn't find him nearly as engaging as CV ones, she thinks his explanations are excellent and easy to follow.

She has fallen in love with chemistry and says that it finally makes math worthwhile! The support and organization guidelines they get in CV chemistry are certainly better than what I've given her! 🙂 But, for DO, we map out a master schedule using his as guidance because some weeks are slower than others. Last year she had finished all of algebra 2 by March and that's not happening this year!

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Posted
On 1/23/2021 at 3:15 PM, deerforest said:

@mmasc My daughter is also in Clover Valley chemistry now and has also taken AoPS and DO math. She's in pre-calculus with DO now and we do the self grading option. She's always been good at math but never loved it which is why we dropped AoPS. But, I'll be honest--she never gets anything wrong in DO! And, she's not cheating (she does well in chem also) but I personally wish there was something more challenging even than DO that wasn't fully AoPS.

But, although doesn't find him nearly as engaging as CV ones, she thinks his explanations are excellent and easy to follow.

She has fallen in love with chemistry and says that it finally makes math worthwhile! The support and organization guidelines they get in CV chemistry are certainly better than what I've given her! 🙂 But, for DO, we map out a master schedule using his as guidance because some weeks are slower than others. Last year she had finished all of algebra 2 by March and that's not happening this year!

I agree!  I wish there was something in between AoPS and DO.  We switched from AoPS just because the homework was taking my son many hours each day.   

@deerforestAre you taking CV honors or the regular version?

 

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