Update on my dad and the idea of him moving in here

[DawnM]

6 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Dh got a good laugh out of this.  So typical from county people.  

Did the contractor not have any clever ideas about utilizing existing space? I mean all you really need is a bathroom added.  And there is room for it.  

Yes, he said we can probably go off the front if we want to add on, or we can use the space we already have.   I am sick over ripping out the existing kitchen, but it will probably have to happen.

 

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Yes, he said we can probably go off the front if we want to add on, or we can use the space we already have.   I am sick over ripping out the existing kitchen, but it will probably have to happen.

 

Why.?

[Harriet Vane]

12 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Yes, he said we can probably go off the front if we want to add on, or we can use the space we already have.   I am sick over ripping out the existing kitchen, but it will probably have to happen.

 

I have a hard time imagining this is necessary? The room is so large and all you need is a bathroom, right? Not criticizing, just having a hard time picturing this.

[DawnM]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Why.?

 

there isn't anywhere else to put the bathroom really.   

[DawnM]

Just now, Harriet Vane said:

I have a hard time imagining this is necessary? The room is so large and all you need is a bathroom, right? Not criticizing, just having a hard time picturing this.

The space is on a huge thick concrete slab, running new plumbing into another area where there isn't already water will be costly.   

and with the window configuration and the door and fireplace location, there isn't as much to work with as you would think.

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Yes, he said we can probably go off the front if we want to add on, or we can use the space we already have.   I am sick over ripping out the existing kitchen, but it will probably have to happen.

 

The kitchen area in the corner? That seems easy to replicate once the bathroom is in, just on the other side of the bathroom wall or something?

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, DawnM said:

The space is on a huge thick concrete slab, running new plumbing into another area where there isn't already water will be costly.   

and with the window configuration and the door and fireplace location, there isn't as much to work with as you would think.

So frustrating! I'm sorry.

In this case, your best investment would be a designer to help plan the space. When we did our kitchen, we did have an official kitchen designer, but our better helper was our contractor. He was one of those blessed individuals who had a marvelous sense of not just how things fit together but also how to make it beautiful. Not sure how you find such a guy, but I hope you are able to get someone with that level of instinct.

[elegantlion]

While not as attractive, I have seen homes where they frame out  a small platform to add plumbing on top of a slab without needing to tear into the concrete. 

Here's some pics of what I mean: 

 

 

[ktgrok]

I think that if he has access to water via a bathroom sink, then having a convection oven or toaster oven, microwave, and small fridge with a counter space or a table will be fine, without needing to run plumbing for another sink. Somewhere he can make a sandwich or bowl of cereal, reheat leftovers you cooked, a tv dinner, etc. Plus maybe an electric skillet?

[DawnM]

6 hours ago, elegantlion said:

While not as attractive, I have seen homes where they frame out  a small platform to add plumbing on top of a slab without needing to tear into the concrete. 

Here's some pics of what I mean: 

 

 

 

the whole reason we are even putting a bathroom down there is because he cannot do stairs.   

[DawnM]

6 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I think that if he has access to water via a bathroom sink, then having a convection oven or toaster oven, microwave, and small fridge with a counter space or a table will be fine, without needing to run plumbing for another sink. Somewhere he can make a sandwich or bowl of cereal, reheat leftovers you cooked, a tv dinner, etc. Plus maybe an electric skillet?

 

He only has a microwave and fridge now, I cook for him.   But that space with all the nice cabinets is so great for storage and I hate to rip them out.   They are nice/higher end cabinets.

[DawnM]

I guess I kept thinking we could make it really nice and large and not patched together to "make it work" but it appears it won't be like that.

We will be ripping out parts of the room I like, needing to re-floor the entire area, etc....

I had wanted a nice large walk in closet for him, and large bathroom, and possibly even a washer/dryer in the space.    I also wanted a nice cement walkway and covered area for him to enter his space with a mini-porch looking area.   I am hoping I can still do that so he can sit outside a bit in a covered area.

Not sure about an entrance now though as we have to enter through the front and there are huge windows there.   Again, may have to rip out what is already nice and existing to piece together something else.

I don't mind spending money, but I hate wasting money by ripping out nice things and replacing them.    That might just be me.   

[fairfarmhand]

The cabinetry should be able to come out in bits. In other words, if you have a good contractor you may be able to simply reuse the cabinets but put in a new countertop. Also, depending on the format of the windows you may be able to put in a French door along with the windows. 
tell your contractor your concerns.

im with you on how wasteful it feels to rip stuff out and then rebuild it several feet away.

[ktgrok]

5 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

He only has a microwave and fridge now, I cook for him.   But that space with all the nice cabinets is so great for storage and I hate to rip them out.   They are nice/higher end cabinets.

Oh, they should be able to reuse the cabinets I'd think!

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

The cabinetry should be able to come out in bits. In other words, if you have a good contractor you may be able to simply reuse the cabinets but put in a new countertop. Also, depending on the format of the windows you may be able to put in a French door along with the windows. 
tell your contractor your concerns.

im with you on how wasteful it feels to rip stuff out and then rebuild it several feet away.

Unfortunately, at least one of those windows will need to come out completely.   There is no other space for a door unless it is on the side of the house, and I don't think that will work.

[prairiewindmomma]

On 1/27/2021 at 4:31 AM, DawnM said:

 

There is a half bath on the main floor BUT, his room will be a full 5 steps lower than the main floor.  We have already explored that and he says he can't do it, even with a lift.   He has had prostate cancer and when he has to go, he has to go NOW and waiting for a lift will be too long.   

 

Is he open to using a urinal? Honestly, that would be the simplest solution. Put in a simple lift for all other parts of life, and use a urinal for the urgency issue. 

[prairiewindmomma]

And if he is open to that, then turn the half bath into a wet room style bathroom.

[DawnM]

15 hours ago, ktgrok said:

The kitchen area in the corner? That seems easy to replicate once the bathroom is in, just on the other side of the bathroom wall or something?

 

Maybe, there isn't a whole lot of room for a door large enough for a wheelchair, so I am not sure it will fit right there.  But he seemed to think we could tap into the laundry room water for a sink along the back wall when I emailed him today.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Is he open to using a urinal? Honestly, that would be the simplest solution. Put in a simple lift for all other parts of life, and use a urinal for the urgency issue. 

We discussed that but he doesn't want it, and I get it.

[katilac]

13 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Is he open to using a urinal? Honestly, that would be the simplest solution. Put in a simple lift for all other parts of life, and use a urinal for the urgency issue. 

It's not nearly as easy to use a portable urinal as it might seem, especially when urgency is involved. It's not always the neatest, and emptying and rinsing it numerous times a day is a bit of a chore, and not a very nice one even when it's your own pee. 

Bathrooms are not always the neatest in the same situation, either, but they're much easier to clean

[DawnM]

So, I went back and measured the room areas last night.    the space from the back wall (inside the bar area) to the fireplace, is almost a full 14 feet.   

DH says if we put all the water needed items on that back wall and the back corner (that back into the laundry), we may be able to not drill into the concrete.   

So, I have been playing with drawing out some ideas.

And there is indeed a little over 7' from the staircase rail to the area with the bar, so those cabinets will fit there, and with the laundry room behind it, we can tap into getting the sink working as well.   They would still need to drill for a drain, but possibly not for the rest of the water.

The space between the smaller window and the bend in the wall is 4', so we may be able to just add a door there without tearing out a window.   We are also going to ask about an entrance on the other wall, on the front side of the fireplace.

The contractor is bringing out a concrete guy today to give us an estimate on either a circular driveway or an extended sidewalk/patio area.    And he is bringing the plumber to talk about adding the bathroom.

I started looking at flooring yesterday.   But open to suggestions.   Tile is fine, but needs to have a "grip" to it and can't be smooth.   I like that tile that looks like wood.  Not sure if it would work there or not.

 

[DawnM]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:25 PM, Harriet Vane said:

I have a hard time imagining this is necessary? The room is so large and all you need is a bathroom, right? Not criticizing, just having a hard time picturing this.

Which is not necessary?   Ripping out the bar/kitchen area or adding up front?   It seems to need to be one or the other due to where the plumbing is and the fact that the floor is very thick concrete (it was meant to be a 2 car garage).

[Harriet Vane]

7 hours ago, DawnM said:

Which is not necessary?   Ripping out the bar/kitchen area or adding up front?   It seems to need to be one or the other due to where the plumbing is and the fact that the floor is very thick concrete (it was meant to be a 2 car garage).

Forgive me for phrasing poorly. Since I cannot see it, I really do not know. Just musing, feeling your pain about the big renovations.

When we were trying to figure out how to set up our house for my father-in-law, there was sooooo much on the table. Numerous people urged us to do a full rehab and add a full bathroom with shower room somehow. There were also a few people urging us to set things up a certain way on our second floor to accommodate his needs there.

We ended up going completely low tech. We set up our first-floor game room for fil, a large room. (It was a living room that we had used for a ping-pong table.) We turned a half-wall into a full wall and added a french door to close the room off. Instead of a bathroom or official toilet, we bought a bedside commode. 

We were really, really concerned that fil would be upset about the commode, and we second-guessed ourselves constantly about setting up a bedroom for him upstairs. 

Our experience has been that the commode and the first-floor set up was absolutely, unquestionably the thing to do. In six months, fil has lost whole oceans of mobility and dexterity. There is no way he could handle daily stairs to a second-floor bedroom. He never questioned the commode, and in fact he actually seems grateful for it. At this point, he actually prefers it to any of the "official" bathrooms in the house.

So for us, we ended up feeling validated in not doing the humongous rehab to the room. After fil transitions to a care facility (if we choose that route) or passes on, the basic footprint of the house is intact and the room is still large and airy.

There's no way for me to know how well my experience translates to YOUR life though. Your dad's condition may be totally different than that of my fil, who declined rapidly with dementia with significant joint and muscle stiffness and pain. If your dad will be mostly mobile and managing himself (as opposed to you providing a ton of hands-on care), then it may make more sense to do the humongous rehab rather than trying to fit something into the existing footprint. Only you can know that.

So a long explanation to say that I was trying to sympathize with your pain over ripping out intact features that are beautiful. 

[katilac]

7 hours ago, DawnM said:

 I started looking at flooring yesterday.   But open to suggestions.

Tile is fine, but needs to have a "grip" to it and can't be smooth.   I like that tile that looks like wood.  Not sure if it would work there or not.

 

I would not do tile for two reasons. One, it is much more brutal on the legs/back than most other flooring. Two, it makes serious injury more likely in a fall. 

[freesia]

14 minutes ago, katilac said:

I would not do tile for two reasons. One, it is much more brutal on the legs/back than most other flooring. Two, it makes serious injury more likely in a fall. 

I agree.  I've lived with tile a couple of times and never want to again. It is also cold, even in a mild climate.  It also needs a lot of upkeep--scrubbing, mopping. It seemed to get and look dirtier much more quickly.  Also, things dropped on it shatter.

[plansrme]

10 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

I started looking at flooring yesterday.   But open to suggestions.   Tile is fine, but needs to have a "grip" to it and can't be smooth.   I like that tile that looks like wood.  Not sure if it would work there or not.

 

I despise big oceans of hard tile, so I am going to throw out that, despite what you will read online and information you will receive from numerous flooring contractors, you can put engineered hardwood on a dry slab. There is even an unfinished engineered hardwood that can be site-finished to match the rest of the house if that's what you have elsewhere.

[KungFuPanda]

On 1/27/2021 at 7:31 AM, DawnM said:

 

There is a half bath on the main floor BUT, his room will be a full 5 steps lower than the main floor.  We have already explored that and he says he can't do it, even with a lift.   He has had prostate cancer and when he has to go, he has to go NOW and waiting for a lift will be too long.   

Normally I would agree with you on being different, but we are most likely moving after my dad passes or needs nursing care, within the next 5-8 years, and getting too "creative" could be an issue with selling.   All of our previous houses had funky layouts, etc.....and it caused some issues with selling.   Not huge issues, but some issues and drops in price, etc....

I get him needing a toilet right there in his space.  I was just wondering if there was a shower on the main floor of the house he could get to or if you could even fit one in your laundry room space.  A shower isn't as time sensitive as a toilet.  Depending upon the location of your main floor half bath it might be easier to add a shower to that one.  Unless you have a shower on the main level, I'm thinking a wet room bathroom in your dad's space and a chair lift or platform lift  to get him to the main level might be the most economic route to accessibility with your layout.  

Did you put the kitchen area in yourselves? I can see why ripping it out is painful if that's the case.  I'd still want them to take care with the demo so the cabinets can be used elsewhere.

 

5 hours ago, katilac said:

I would not do tile for two reasons. One, it is much more brutal on the legs/back than most other flooring. Two, it makes serious injury more likely in a fall. 

Tile on a slab is COLD too.  I know it's not in right now, but I'd carpet it for him for warmth, safety, and acoustics.  We have a room like that  that's just one step down from the rest of the house.  It's the only part that's on a slab and is a single story.  It has it's own climate. A mobility scooter goes just fine over carpet so I wouldn't worry about accessibility.

 

Here are some small-but-accessible footprints if it helps.  They're not in English, but you get the idea.

https://badmodul.dk/portfolio-item/459-koebenhavnerbadevaerelse-sydhavnen/

http://testowyblogkurwa.blogspot.com/2011/09/13-m2-czyli-o-azienkach-w-domu.html

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by KungFuPanda

[katilac]

11 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

 Tile on a slab is COLD too.  I know it's not in right now, but I'd carpet it for him for warmth, safety, and acoustics.  We have a room like that  that's just one step down from the rest of the house.  It's the only part that's on a slab and is a single story.  It has it's own climate. A mobility scooter goes just fine over carpet so I wouldn't worry about accessibility.

 

Me, too. You can do it inexpensively, and then inexpensively tear it out when you are ready to change it. 

[cjzimmer1]

Another option for bathroom laundry area is sheet vinyl.  Yes it's not popular but it's relatively cheap, it's much softer than tile, there really are many great looking colors, super easy to clean especially if he ends up with accidents.  My thought is that if FIL is in a walker or eventually wheel chair, the flooring is going to get scuffed and show more wear and tear.  So in addition to handling current needs, it's not a huge investment if it needs to be replaced sooner than normal.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

I get him needing a toilet right there in his space.  I was just wondering if there was a shower on the main floor of the house he could get to or if you could even fit one in your laundry room space.  A shower isn't as time sensitive as a toilet.  Depending upon the location of your main floor half bath it might be easier to add a shower to that one.  Unless you have a shower on the main level, I'm thinking a wet room bathroom in your dad's space and a chair lift or platform lift  to get him to the main level might be the most economic route to accessibility with your layout.  

Did you put the kitchen area in yourselves? I can see why ripping it out is painful if that's the case.  I'd still want them to take care with the demo so the cabinets can be used elsewhere.

 

Tile on a slab is COLD too.  I know it's not in right now, but I'd carpet it for him for warmth, safety, and acoustics.  We have a room like that  that's just one step down from the rest of the house.  It's the only part that's on a slab and is a single story.  It has it's own climate. A mobility scooter goes just fine over carpet so I wouldn't worry about accessibility.

 

Here are some small-but-accessible footprints if it helps.  They're not in English, but you get the idea.

https://badmodul.dk/portfolio-item/459-koebenhavnerbadevaerelse-sydhavnen/

http://testowyblogkurwa.blogspot.com/2011/09/13-m2-czyli-o-azienkach-w-domu.html

 

Ah, ok, I see.....no, there is no shower on the main floor.