SquirrellyMama Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Don't open the link if you don't want to see the school pictures of the 3 boys killed. 5 kids stole a car and 3 died in the crash during a high speed chase. The kids were 13-16. They are young and their pictures make it more real about how young they are. This story is haunting me. Changes need to be made. https://www.kcci.com/article/clive-iowa-police-identify-teens-involved-in-fatal-high-speed-pursuit-crash/35193938 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I don’t think there are changes that could prevent kids from stealing cars and crashing them. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Katy said: I don’t think there are changes that could prevent kids from stealing cars and crashing them. What gets me is that these were 13 and 14 year olds with two loaded handguns stealing cars. There is obviously the possibility that the loaded handguns were in the car when they stole it; but I truthfully don’t know anyone who keeps loaded weapons loose in their personal vehicle(and probably most of the people I know personally carry). It wasn’t a long chase, either. Less than 2 minutes from the time of the initial traffic stop to the time of the crash. High speed pursuits are usually terminated fairly quickly when the speeds become unsafe or it’s in a populated area. I don’t really know what changes could have prevented this. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 I don't care how long or short a high speed chase is, they need to stop. There been a few here in the last couple months that have all ended in crashes. I know many people will disagree, that's ok. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wintermom Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 37 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said: I don't care how long or short a high speed chase is, they need to stop. There been a few here in the last couple months that have all ended in crashes. I know many people will disagree, that's ok. I'm curious about what alternatives there are? If people decide to 'run' rather than pull over for police, does that mean police are not supposed to attempt to pull anyone over? I'm not sure what you actually mean by "they need to stop." 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 41 minutes ago, wintermom said: I'm curious about what alternatives there are? If people decide to 'run' rather than pull over for police, does that mean police are not supposed to attempt to pull anyone over? I'm not sure what you actually mean by "they need to stop." I will be honest, I don't have an answer. I think they are unsafe for everybody. Police and pedestrians get hurt in these also. I am heartbroken for these families. I cannot think they deserved to die. It is just one of those moments when you wish something could have been done so they didn't die. So they could have had a chance at something better. Kelly 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet2ndchance Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 The article says the "chase" lasted 1 minute and 12 seconds. Sounds to me like the kid floored it when the policed attempted to pull them over and then lost control probably due to lack of experience behind the wheel a a vehicle. I get it about wanting high speed chases to stop for the safety of the community. My ex FIL and MIL were in an accident caused by a high speed chase. The guy had broken out of prison, stolen a vehicle and was attempting to find his ex-girlfriend and kid to kill them when police spotted him. They had been pursuing him for 10 - 15 minutes when he ran a stop sign and intentionally ran into ex-FIL and MIL to try and create a diversion for police so he could get away. He totaled ex-FIL and MIL's new-to-them car (I think they had had it a month or so) and flipped his stolen vehicle into a field. He was caught and put back in prison for life this time. Ex-FIL and MIL got no compensation for the vehicle other than the pittance from their own insurance for an uninsured driver (which yes that is partially their fault for not carrying enough insurance on the vehicle to replace it if it were totaled but still). The accident was consider collateral damage and for the good of the community because the suspect was considered armed and dangerous so the police department could not be sued for the damages. It sucks but if I were the former girlfriend I would be glad they pursued that guy long enough to get him caught again before he found me. My ex-FIL and MIL only suffered minor injuries, mostly due to the airbags going off, and though they were a bit miffed that they couldn't get enough to replace the car because the guy was uninsured and they couldn't get anything from the police department, but they were glad that the guy was caught and couldn't carry out his plan. It doesn't sound like the incident in this article though was anything like that and I would barely call it chase because of how short it was. Doing the math, at 100 mph for just over a minute chase time, the police pursued them for less than 2 miles before the driver lost control. Since it was speeds "up to 100 mph" it was probably less than a mile and a half, maybe even less than a mile. This story sounds to me like some kids who made some very bad choices with unfortunate consequences rather than a case for unsafe police chase tactics. 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 I am not the first person to suggest this. I at one time had a much harder time wrapping my head around it also. I am done with our criminal justice system as it is now. And, our educational system. That will be my next unpopular idea today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said: It doesn't sound like the incident in this article though was anything like that and I would barely call it chase because of how short it was. Doing the math, at 100 mph for just over a minute chase time, the police pursued them for less than 2 miles before the driver lost control. Since it was speeds "up to 100 mph" it was probably less than a mile and a half, maybe even less than a mile. This story sounds to me like some kids who made some very bad choices with unfortunate consequences rather than a case for unsafe police chase tactics. I would say the police can assume that if someone doesn't stop immediately it is going to get out of control. Is there a better way? Yes, they made a bad decision. I just wish it could have been different. I am just sad. Usually news stories don't haunt me so much. This one is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartString Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 The city I used to live in had a policy of no high speed chases unless it was for a felony. They changed to that policy after a teenager ran his car off a hill and through someone’s living room, killing him self. They have the license plate for the car they can pick up speeders or misdemeanor offenders at home at a later date, send them a summons or just put out an arrest warrant. Endangering the public over a tiny charge is not worth it. Now in this case of a stolen vehicle I don’t know what the options are. A stolen vehicle is an insurance issue though, most are never recovered once they are stolen. I don’t think risking lives to return a car to its owner is worth it. The kids seat with it, but I think people get away with crimes on a daily basis and it’s not worth risking innocent bystanders over. Or passengers in this case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted January 14, 2021 Author Share Posted January 14, 2021 Just now, Cnew02 said: The city I used to live in had a policy of no high speed chases unless it was for a felony. They changed to that policy after a teenager ran his car off a hill and through someone’s living room, killing him self. They have the license plate for the car they can pick up speeders or misdemeanor offenders at home at a later date, send them a summons or just put out an arrest warrant. Endangering the public over a tiny charge is not worth it. Now in this case of a stolen vehicle I don’t know what the options are. A stolen vehicle is an insurance issue though, most are never recovered once they are stolen. I don’t think risking lives to return a car to its owner is worth it. The kids seat with it, but I think people get away with crimes on a daily basis and it’s not worth risking innocent bystanders over. Or passengers in this case. Either way the owner of the car isn't getting it back. If they don't give chase the car could be lost forever or it gets wrecked amd totaled. Kelly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 1 hour ago, SquirrellyMama said: I don't care how long or short a high speed chase is, they need to stop. There been a few here in the last couple months that have all ended in crashes. I know many people will disagree, that's ok. just seeing a cop car will often inspire this demographic (teens/young adults who've just stolen a car) to drive erratically. They generally lack the experience to handle a car except in the best of circumstances. and I've seen enough adults drive recklessly because they're in a rush. A year ago, I t-boned a guy who was "in a rush" and driving the wrong way because he didn't want to wait his turn to turn. (finally just finished the lawsuit against him - he has 30 days to pay up. two seconds earlier - and he would have t-boned my front driver's door. He should be grateful 911 didn't dispatch police as he would have received a hefty citation too. - I talked to the police afterwards, they gave me the traffic cam video.) or the one where I was minding my own business at a stop light and some idiot rushed to make a left turn in front of oncoming cars. she got t-boned, and that car spun into a head-on with me. at least he'd lost momentum. But I still have problems with my leg. 43 minutes ago, wintermom said: I'm curious about what alternatives there are? If people decide to 'run' rather than pull over for police, does that mean police are not supposed to attempt to pull anyone over? I'm not sure what you actually mean by "they need to stop." just seeing a cop car can trigger them to run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet2ndchance Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, SquirrellyMama said: I would say the police can assume that if someone doesn't stop immediately it is going to get out of control. Is there a better way? Yes, they made a bad decision. I just wish it could have been different. I am just sad. Usually news stories don't haunt me so much. This one is. What if the child driver lost control at speeds of over 100 mph just joy riding? The story would have likely ended the same way, police uninvolved. While I agree not every infraction should be pursued in a high speed chase, I also don't agree that there should be a full stop to high speed chases. I don't know, maybe it is because I've been in the position of the ex-girlfriend in my story where someone wanted to kill me. I know what that is like and while I wouldn't be happy that the person who wanted to kill me hurt other people in trying to get to me, I would also be forever thankful that the police did what was necessary to apprehend him before he carried out his plans. These kids had two loaded weapons with them, had a stolen vehicle and if I read it right had attempted to burglarize another vehicle? While I do wish they could have been rehabilitated, I would definitely say their intentions were not an innocent joy ride gone wrong. They didn't deserve to die but I don't think the police weren't wrong in at least attempting to apprehend them either. That's all I'm trying to say. 8 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scholastica Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 This isn’t a good example to use for the case against high speed chases. In this case, only the people acting in a criminal manner were killed and injured. This is a “play stupid games, win stupid prizes” case. The choices these young people made were colossally bad on a scale shocking for their ages. I think we should be asking how did kids this age get to be committing so many crimes in such a short period of time, instead of saying the police shouldn’t have chased them. The police also weren’t going faster and faster, otherwise the driver couldn’t have been increasing distance between them. The driver was the high speed in this case. I am sad that no-one had intervened in the lives of these children before they got to this point. Police chases are a controversial subject, but IMO this case doesn’t register against it. 15 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 So very sad. I don't know if I think the police deserve the blame but it sure is a shame to see such young boys lose their life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Tiggywinkle Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Spike strips work well, but in this case there wouldn’t have been time to deploy them. High speed chases are significantly restricted in my area. I can honestly only think of two and one was called off due to the high rate of speed. The other ended with the driver rolling the car. It’s a risk vs benefit and usually the risk is greater. This is unfortunate but I can’t come up with another solution other than the police initially pursuing the vehicle. It’s likely at 3 am in the morning no one was aware it was a stolen vehicle yet, and the police was pulling them over for erratic driving or something. At one minute 12 seconds they may not have even been able to pull the vehicle info yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnM Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 It is heartbreaking for those parents. One of my students last year took a car that wasn't his and he and his twin brother were only 15, no license, and drove erratically and were speeding and hit a truck head on. Both boys died. I went to the funeral. It was horrible. Two matching caskets. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 In my husband's department, chases are only allowed in very specific cases, like stopping someone wanted for murder or thought to be currently dangerous. My husband has often gotten behind cars for something minor, then they've taken off. He turns off his lights, radios it in, then drive a different way to their likely route to follow at a distance of possible. Often times he finds their car crashed by the time he gets there because they were too panicked to realize he wasn't pursuing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klmama Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Sad. Our area is also seeing a huge increase in young teens stealing cars. Our police won't engage in a high-speed chase in the city, but sometimes the kids are scared when they see the officer following and start driving super fast, leading to a crash. Unfortunately, there don't seem to be any prompt consequences for those caught stealing the cars; often, those arrested are awaiting trial for 4 or 5 other similar offenses, and it's not uncommon for them to be wearing tracking bracelets. The guns are an issue, too. There have been a number of shootings between people in stolen cars, some with around 50 casings recovered on site. It's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 I wonder what they were planning with multiple guns and a stolen car. Murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Katy said: I wonder what they were planning with multiple guns and a stolen car. Murder? Nothing good. Mark Rober - (the porch pirate retribution via glitter bombs guy) had some thugs pick up one of his packages. They were driving all over town (he had a GPS tracker so he could retrieve it.) He kept waiting for them to stop and open it. Since the batteries were running low - he decided to "encourage' them to get rid of it so he started talking to them. They did take it out of the car - and they promptly shot it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbel Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Yes, I can see a lot of things that should be changed here. What is the family life like, that such young kids are out in the middle of the night? What made them decide it was ok to steal a car / go driving around in a stolen car? How did loaded guns get into the car - did the kids bring them or were they already there? So many questions. Sad sad story. I'm sure the police involved feel horrible even though it seems apparent they did not cause this tragedy.. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 hours ago, marbel said: Yes, I can see a lot of things that should be changed here. What is the family life like, that such young kids are out in the middle of the night? What made them decide it was ok to steal a car / go driving around in a stolen car? How did loaded guns get into the car - did the kids bring them or were they already there? So many questions. Sad sad story. I'm sure the police involved feel horrible even though it seems apparent they did not cause this tragedy.. Mark Rober - aka: glitter bomb guy, records the reactions of people who steal his glitter bombs. One of them - the kid was gloating about how easy it was to have stolen it. THE MOM was telling him "not to gloat to his friends/in public" - but she was the one teaching him to steal. It can, and does, go to the family culture. In my mom's condo complex - adults were lifting their kids over the fence so they could open the gate from the inside. Yes - they adults were planning on stealing. Charles Dickens didn't just make up adults using kids to steal. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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