Checking in... Anxiety about current events

[I talk to the trees]

Um, off-topic, but if anyone gets a notification that I laughed at their post, please disregard. Either my internet connection is wonky, or my iPad is pitching a tantrum, because everything has been moving s.l.o.w.l.y all afternoon. When I tap on the reaction bar, I think I have hit the wrong icon several times now, and I really don’t want to send the wrong message to anyone in this thread. So, sorry!

[Katy]

I've seen a few people who think they are being reasonable, but who are just sharing false information from Trump get infuriated when someone reports their posts as false news and then the post gets a warning label or removed.  These people have been "leaving" facebook, but then come back when whatever other site they choose crashes.

[bookbard]

So, as someone outside your country, I find this thread interesting. A big hug to all those feeling very anxious - I am so sorry. I actually had thought the fact that the people were stopped and are being arrested would be making you feel more reassured than previously. The fact that all the rats seem to be fleeing the sinking ship would make you feel that a certain decency would finally be embraced.

I hadn't thought what it would be like to be surrounded - including in your own household - by people fearful and mourning and angry. It sounds incredible stressful. I'm sorry.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Plum said:

I think feeling somewhat anxious during any electoral transition is normal. That’s a consequence of extreme polarization. Half of the country is breathing a sigh of relief while the other half of the country believes they have an illegitimate president. This isn’t that different from how people have felt after the past few elections.

I don't know any liberals who thought Trump didn't actually get elected. They may have mourned the outcome but they didn't think it was a rigged election. There's a difference. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Plum said:

I’m not going to get into the weeds about this. There was visible mourning with Trump and with Obama. Hillary won the popular vote ring a bell? George W Bush vs Gore and that FL fiasco. 

She did win the popular vote. No one thought that therefore she should be in the White House. 

Should we be worried about the protestors who got into the Capitol? 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[ericathemom]

My anxiety stems from the fact that I'm seeing my family splinter due to the pandemic (masking/anti-masking, etc.) and political rhetoric of the past year. My parents and (adult) brothers' families have made statements and acted in ways that have infuriated myself and other (adult siblings) and I am watching our once close family get torn apart. I would love to be able to ignore everyone's "pandemic behavior" and have "what happens during pandemic stay in a pandemic" but that doesn't feel psychologically healthy.

The political chaos is just adding to an already stressful year.

[saraha]

19 minutes ago, ericathemom said:

My anxiety stems from the fact that I'm seeing my family splinter due to the pandemic (masking/anti-masking, etc.) and political rhetoric of the past year. My parents and (adult) brothers' families have made statements and acted in ways that have infuriated myself and other (adult siblings) and I am watching our once close family get torn apart. I would love to be able to ignore everyone's "pandemic behavior" and have "what happens during pandemic stay in a pandemic" but that doesn't feel psychologically healthy.

The political chaos is just adding to an already stressful year.

Liking because we are going through something similar

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Plum said:

That’s an insulting question. Yes. Hopefully they will be caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. 

It wasn't meant to be insulting 😞 . I was just wondering why the fact that this happened didn't, say, validate people's fears and people's sense that something different was going on this year.

Do you have a different take on what happened than I do? My sense was that the anger about the outcome of the election (that the protesters thought was not legitimate) resulted in them coming to the Capitol and then forcing their way in. And therefore, that makes me worry about the level of anger in the country.

What's your sense about what happened? This isn't meant to be a snarky question in any way. I was just wondering why you think we shouldn't worry more than we did 8 years ago. 

[Frances]

45 minutes ago, Plum said:

I think feeling somewhat anxious during any electoral transition is normal. That’s a consequence of extreme polarization. Half of the country is breathing a sigh of relief while the other half of the country believes they have an illegitimate president. This isn’t that different from how people have felt after the past few elections.

This might be too political and I can delete if necessary, but people insisting for the last four plus years that Trump (and the reactions to him) is just like other past Republican or Democratic presidents is one of the reasons why we ended up with people storming the Capitol and a significant portion of the country not just unhappy with the election results,but believing it was stolen, despite all factual evidence to the contrary. And the world looking on in shock and horror (except our enemies). Lots of prominent lifelong Republican leaders have been trying for quite awhile to refute this equivalence argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign

While I know lots of people (both Rs and Ds) IRL and on this board who were appalled, disgusted, and even scared in 2016, I don’t know anyone who claimed the election was stolen and Trump was not the legitimate winner. They may not like the electoral college and believe having the popular vote winner prevail is fairer, but they didn’t claim the election was stolen and advocate for overturning the results by any means possible, even illegal or violent ones. In my opinion, these false equivalency arguments are extremely dangerous.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

This might be too political and I can delete if necessary, but people insisting for the last four plus years that Trump (and the reactions to him) is just like other past Republican or Democratic presidents is one of the reasons why we ended up with people storming the Capitol and a significant portion of the country not just unhappy with the election results,but believing it was stolen, despite all factual evidence to the contrary. And the world looking on in shock and horror (except our enemies). Lots of prominent lifelong Republican leaders have been trying for quite awhile to refute this equivalence argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2016_presidential_campaign
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Republicans_who_opposed_the_Donald_Trump_2020_presidential_campaign

While I know lots of people (both Rs and Ds) IRL and on this board who were appalled, disgusted, and even scared in 2016, I don’t know anyone who claimed the election was stolen and Trump was not the legitimate winner. They may not like the electoral college and believe having the popular vote winner prevail is fairer, but they didn’t claim the election was stolen and advocate for overturning the results by any means possible, even illegal or violent ones. In my opinion, these false equivalency arguments are extremely dangerous.

I'd guess this is too political. May as well not get the thread shut down. 

[Frances]

47 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

This is very different. Yes, people here felt upset when Clinton and Obama won. They worried for Christianity. But now there is a desperation. A feeling that "they" will abolish the church and capitalism. The fear is at a fever pitch. People are convinced their world is ending. Very, very different feeling...at least in my community.

I know many, many educated, professional people who believe the election was stolen. Doctors and lawyers. It is scary.

Do they not acknowledge that many Democrats, including our next president (and Obama and Clinton), are Christians? That many Democrats are successful business owners? This just seems so extreme and out there to believe. It all just goes to show that propaganda, lies, and disinformation if repeated often enough truly are very, very effective.

[frogger]

I have been watching distrust, confusion, and fear take over for some time. I think we are all learning to deal with sorting information that is coming at us so fast we don't have time to figure it all out. Some can wisely choose things to investigate and things to just leave in the "I have no clue pile." but others get confused and choose a side to be right. They are willing to give that news station or tribe or whatever the benefit of the doubt and are easily manipulated. The trusted source then uses emotion to cement the tribalism and viola you have indoctrinated tribal members of the left or the right. The psychological nature of protecting your tribe that you know to be "right" allows you to ignore everything said by the other side. 

 

It won't take more information to solve these issues. It will take wisdom in knowing how to deal with info and help others deal with it, especially when much of it is poison in slick packaging.  Then to ask ourselves what is truly good for the country rather than how do I crush the other side. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

It won't take more information to solve these issues. It will take wisdom in knowing how to deal with info and help others deal with it, especially when much of it is poison in slick packaging.  Then to ask ourselves what is truly good for the country rather than how do I crush the other side. 

How do I help? I already know it's not information that helps. But what can I do to help? I don't even feel like I'm being interpreted as a person anymore. 

[frogger]

I will just add , right now I'm more concerned about the populace than the government. How can people work together if they have their own reality.

The Democrats have staved off their political radicals and managed to elect more centric presidential nominees lately but I have run into my fair share of crazy leftist. Some who want to simply shoot gun owners, etc. Hopefully, that was a vent but....

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, frogger said:

The Democrats have staved off their political radicals and managed to elect more centric presidential nominees lately but I have run into my fair share of crazy leftist. Some who want to simply shoot gun owners, etc. Hopefully, that was a vent but....

You don't have to tell me. I've gotten into lots of trouble with crazy people of all stripes. I am happy to denounce them all day long. 

But that doesn't get me anywhere. I don't think I get any recognition of my personhood just because I am not a hypocrite. 

[frogger]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

How do I help? I already know it's not information that helps. But what can I do to help? I don't even feel like I'm being interpreted as a person anymore. 

I am trying to figure this out myself. People seem to be immune to new info. I'm pretty sure it has to do with building trust through relationship, even when things they say make you want to bash your head into a wall,  which is dramatically harder than just spouting info.

Also teaching children or others that aren't already indoctrinated how to be skeptical and look for truth and avoid emotional stuff, source info, give different perspectives etc we may have a fighting chance. 

 

ETA Maybe trying to focus people on what their goal actually is. I don't think they actually want to destroy the country but they are angry. It really depends on the individual and how far down a path they have gone.

Edited January 9, 2021 by frogger

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

I am trying to figure this out myself. People seem to be immune to new info. I'm pretty sure it has to do with building trust through relationship, even when things they say make you want to bash your head into a wall,  which is dramatically harder than just spouting info.

But it's hard to build relationships when people look at you with contempt from the start. 

Perhaps the only thing that we can do is talk to those of us who we DO have relationships with. But that requires self-sacrifice, and that's very hard. 

 

1 minute ago, frogger said:

Also teaching children or others that aren't already indoctrinated how to be skeptical and look for truth and avoid emotional stuff, source info, give different perspectives etc we may have a fighting chance. 

I do that with my kids, yes. But I assume I can't trust others to. 

[Katy]

9 minutes ago, Frances said:

Do they not acknowledge that many Democrats, including our next president (and Obama and Clinton), are Christians? That many Democrats are successful business owners? This just seems so extreme and out there to believe. It all just goes to show that propaganda, lies, and disinformation if repeated often enough truly are very, very effective.

No, they don’t acknowledge he’s Christian. To them he’s an idol worshipping Catholic who prays to statues instead of to God, he supports murdering babies, and he’s a democrat who at the very least covers up child sexual abuse and trafficking if he’s not guilty of it. Reality doesn’t enter the equation. They’re in Trump land, and anything he does that’s distasteful doesn’t matter because he’s confronting the evil democrats and there will be mass round ups any day and decisive proof the election was rigged and he’s God’s chosen one to restore the land to a glorious time that didn’t exist for anyone who wasn’t a white male veteran in the 1950’s.  They’re all under a mass delusion in this cult and there’s no reasoning with any of them. 
 

It’s a cult. I’d say the illusion will break when he dies but I don’t think so because I read a few people today claim that various members of the white house staff or even Pence are in prison and have been replaced by body doubles. Like Elvis or Hitler, he’s going to live forever. 
 

I’d argue explaining these beliefs is neither partisan nor political, but I understand if some people think otherwise. 

[frogger]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But it's hard to build relationships when people look at you with contempt from the start. 

Perhaps the only thing that we can do is talk to those of us who we DO have relationships with. But that requires self-sacrifice, and that's very hard. 

Yep!

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

I do that with my kids, yes. But I assume I can't trust others to. 

Yes, this is true too. I have the opportunity to teach other kids at times too. I'm also wondering if there might be a place in the volunteer world where I might help out once more of my kids are graduated.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

It’s a cult. I’d say the illusion will break when he dies but I don’t think so because I read a few people today claim that various members of the white house staff or even Pence are in prison and have been replaced by body doubles. Like Elvis or Hitler, he’s going to live forever. 

I do think the illusion will break when he dies. His personal charisma (like with most authoritarians and cult leaders in general) is part of what makes the cult go. 

[Lecka]

I have heard from a few people they suspect Biden of being a pedophile. Some say he definitely is, some say they think there are reasons to be suspicious.

So to them — it’s really bad to have a pedophile or a possible/suspected pedophile as President.

Its mainly 3 people who have said this.  Two I believe are into Q Anon.  One I don’t believe is, but he hears a lot that is Q Anon-based and he doesn’t know it could be biased.  
 

The first two people have no interest in a relationship with us that doesn’t include convincing us to agree with them.

The third does want to get along with us, but it looks like we may have to avoid discussing politics at all for that to happen.  We definitely also want to get along with him.  
 

The first two — they have zero interest in avoiding politics.  Zero.  They think we are duped by fake news and it’s their duty to try to get us to see the error of our ways. 

[Lecka]

Because I have the experience of people trying to convince me, and seeing politics as a deal-breaker, it makes me feel like — it’s not very pleasant at all.

I don’t want to do that to others.

It doesn’t lead to people seeing the error of their ways and agreeing with me, but I don’t know what I could do to make that happen so I think it’s okay.  

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I have heard from a few people they suspect Biden of being a pedophile. Some say he definitely is, some say they think there are reasons to be suspicious.

So to them — it’s really bad to have a pedophile or a possible/suspected pedophile as President.

Its mainly 3 people who have said this.  Two I believe are into Q Anon.  One I don’t believe is, but he hears a lot that is Q Anon-based and he doesn’t know it could be biased.  
 

The first two people have no interest in a relationship with us that doesn’t include convincing us to agree with them.

The third does want to get along with us, but it looks like we may have to avoid discussing politics at all for that to happen.  We definitely also want to get along with him.  
 

The first two — they have zero interest in avoiding politics.  Zero.  They think we are duped by fake news and it’s their duty to try to get us to see the error of our ways. 

I read an article yesterday or Thursday about the coup attempt. And the person quoted--one of the insurrectionists--alleged that Pence is a pedophile. This was done in the usual plausible deniability speak they've learned from their leader (he didn't know it, couldn't say for sure he was, but that's just what he'd heard from many sources).

I kid you not.

To these people anyone and everyone they don't like is a pedophile.

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I have heard from a few people they suspect Biden of being a pedophile. Some say he definitely is, some say they think there are reasons to be suspicious.

So to them — it’s really bad to have a pedophile or a possible/suspected pedophile as President.

Its mainly 3 people who have said this.  Two I believe are into Q Anon.  One I don’t believe is, but he hears a lot that is Q Anon-based and he doesn’t know it could be biased.  

Sigh. That's back to "you don't really believe that" from the Politics board, I think. 

They don't REALLY believe that. It literally doesn't matter to them if it's true or not, it's just convenient. 

[Lecka]

One believes it.  I am not positive if her husband believes it or just goes along with her.

”Why would someone make something like that up?”

Well — I can think of 1,000 reasons.  She cannot.

She has gotten deep into this stuff since the pandemic started.  Before she was more of someone who though Obama was a Muslim not born in the USA.  
 

She also believes in ghosts and that she has lived in haunted houses before.
 

So I think she’s a little credulous!

 

But she hears this stuff and mostly is around people who agree with her, and some (most?) of them may know better.  

[Lecka]

She also believes that Baptists are a denomination straight from Jesus’ time and does not believe that Baptists came out of the Protestant Reformation (in any way, shape, or form).

And I promise you she believes that.  
 

Edit:  there is a really sketchy-looking self-published book about this and she believes it 100% and thinks that’s a normal kind of evidence to have for something.  

Edited January 9, 2021 by Lecka

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

One believes it.  I am not positive if her husband believes it or just goes along with her.

”Why would someone make something like that up?”

Well — I can think of 1,000 reasons.  She cannot.

No, the point is that she doesn't really care if it's true or not. She believes this in the sense that she'd defend it. But it really doesn't matter to her if it's true or not. 

There's cognitive dissonance involved, basically. It's an article of faith, but it's not a fact she can reason about. It's not falsifiable. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Lecka said:

She also believes in ghosts and that she has lived in haunted houses before.
 

So I think she’s a little credulous!

 

But she hears this stuff and mostly is around people who agree with her, and some (most?) of them may know better.  

Yeah, some people aren't convincible. 

I'd probably make it clear you won't talk to them about it, and then don't. Leave the room if need be. 

[Lecka]

She does not understand what people mean by reasoning or looking for evidence or “not being able to prove a negative” or anything like that.

So it’s not that she doesn’t do it, it’s a foreign way for her to think.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Lecka said:

She does not understand what people mean by reasoning or looking for evidence or “not being able to prove a negative” or anything like that.

So it’s not that she doesn’t do it, it’s a foreign way for her to think.  

Sounds irritating 😛

[Lecka]

We are not currently on speaking terms.  
 

But I am willing to not bring things up with people who are also willing to not bring things up with me. 
 

Like — I don’t know what to say to someone whose evidence comes from Newsmax, and that person doesn’t know what to say to me with my evidence coming from the New York Times. 
 

One of us would have to convince the other one of us to go with a totally different news source, and we mutually do not respect or believe the opposite news sources.

It’s like — I’m not going to give Newsmax a try, so I see why another person won’t give New York Times a try.

It’s just not seeming realistic right now.  

[Frances]

54 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

Yes, I've tried to point that out. I've pointed out Biden is a staunch church attending Catholic. But even among my acquaintances that are doctors and  Catholic don't believe he is a Christian because he is for abortion.  

So they don’t believe he is a “real” Christian, even though he says he is and attends mass regularly. (And I’m assuming as “real” Christians they are consistently and not selectively pro-life and carefully following all pandemic mandates, oppose capital punishment, support affordable, quality healthcare for all, etc. ). So why do they then think he would want to abolish the very church he attends, even if it as a “fake” Christian? Or do they think that he attends mass is actually a lie or an act? So he would not just be fine with all Christian churches going away, but will actively advocate for it? He literally doesn’t believe in the first amendment?

[Drama Llama]

2 minutes ago, Frances said:

So they don’t believe he is a “real” Christian, even though he says he is and attends mass regularly. (And I’m assuming as “real” Christians they are consistently and not selectively pro-life and carefully following all pandemic mandates, oppose capital punishment, support affordable, quality healthcare for all, etc. ). So why do they then think he would want to abolish the very church he attends, even if it as a “fake” Christian? Or do they think that he attends mass is actually a lie or an act? So he would not just be fine with all Christian churches going away, but will actively advocate for it? He literally doesn’t believe in the first amendment?

Even aside from the abortion issue, I can tell you that there are many people who do not consider Catholics to be "real" Christians.  

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

So they don’t believe he is a “real” Christian, even though he says he is and attends mass regularly. (And I’m assuming as “real” Christians they are consistently and not selectively pro-life and carefully following all pandemic mandates, oppose capital punishment, support affordable, quality healthcare for all, etc. ). So why do they then think he would want to abolish the very church he attends, even if it as a “fake” Christian? Or do they think that he attends mass is actually a lie or an act? So he would not just be fine with all Christian churches going away, but will actively advocate for it? He literally doesn’t believe in the first amendment?

You're being far too logical. He's a pedophile, he's in with the Deep State, he wants to take all of your guns and install communism. 

Who cares what you say as long as elicits the correct emotions, right? They aren't going to examine the sources of their emotions. It's a cult. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Lecka]

The person I mentioned who doesn’t believe the Baptists come out of the Protestant Reformation in any way — it ties in very much with not believing that Catholics are real Christians.  
 

Just as an aside!

 

 

[Katy]

14 minutes ago, Frances said:

So they don’t believe he is a “real” Christian, even though he says he is and attends mass regularly. (And I’m assuming as “real” Christians they are consistently and not selectively pro-life and carefully following all pandemic mandates, oppose capital punishment, support affordable, quality healthcare for all, etc. ). So why do they then think he would want to abolish the very church he attends, even if it as a “fake” Christian? Or do they think that he attends mass is actually a lie or an act? So he would not just be fine with all Christian churches going away, but will actively advocate for it? He literally doesn’t believe in the first amendment?

Most of these people don’t know anything about Christian history and think that everyone who isn’t part of their specific denomination isn’t saved. Don’t bother pointing out that most of them are in different denominations. Catholics aren’t Christians at all to them, there’s too much work involved and no specific emotional salvation experience that proves you’re on God’s side. 

[Katy]

This was posted on another thread on another board, but it’s an article about the woman who was killed and her q-anon beliefs that outline some of the same things: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/09/ashli-babbitt-capitol-mob-trump-qanon-conspiracy-theory

[Frances]

1 hour ago, frogger said:

I will just add , right now I'm more concerned about the populace than the government. How can people work together if they have their own reality.

The Democrats have staved off their political radicals and managed to elect more centric presidential nominees lately but I have run into my fair share of crazy leftist. Some who want to simply shoot gun owners, etc. Hopefully, that was a vent but....

I both agree and disagree with you. The populace is very concerning, especially given as you succinctly put it that many are living in their own reality. But while I agree that those on either extreme can be dangerous, I also think leaders who are fundamentally unfit to lead and intent on dividing the populace and doing whatever is necessary (lies, disinformation, propaganda, unethical and borderline illegal maneuvers, breaking democratic norms and eroding democratic institutions, etc) in order to remain in power can result in terrible things happening, regardless of how moderate or extreme their policies might be. In other words, I don’t think a divide over policies or the extremes on either side are the only issues we are facing. It goes back to the idea that Not-a-Number frequently espouses, we have to draw a line in the sand and then stick to it regardless of which side we are on and who is in power.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Frances

[Frances]

16 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Even aside from the abortion issue, I can tell you that there are many people who do not consider Catholics to be "real" Christians.  

Having been raised Catholic, I definitely encountered that among evangelicals when I went to college. And since I know what state she is in I’m sure it’s a much more widespread belief there than where I grew up. But since she said even some fellow Catholics didn’t consider him to be Catholic, I was trying to follow the logic all the way to him wanting to or at least allowing the Christian church to be abolished.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, kand said:

I keep thinking of your post. It makes me sad 😞. You shouldn’t have to feel that way. In watching over the coverage of the last two months and especially this week, I’ve increasingly been able to hear the honest-to-goodness fear and anger in people’s voices who think something terrible has happened and more is going to happen.  I can see it on their faces, and I see it’s absolutely genuine for many, and the fact that people have been led to feel that way is what seems worst of all to me at this point. It didn’t and doesn’t have to be that way, yet it’s very hard to remedy. I keep puzzling over how that could be fixed, so people would feel better, would know they don’t have to feel afraid.  We know from psychology though, that at this point even if those who have lied came right out and told people they had lied, a large percentage of people would still be reluctant to let go of what they have been told and come to believe. It’s tragic to me that  this has been done to people and they have been manipulated in the self-serving interest of others. I dearly hope it can be fixed with the passage of time and people seeing that their worst fears do not come to pass.

I don't know how we could fix this. I really don't know. I think you're right that people are genuinely scared, but it's all very inchoate at this point. They are scared because their emotions have been worked up to fever pitch. If you cut off one of the heads of this fierce dragon, another one will sprout up. 

 

1 minute ago, kand said:

I am very worried about what will happen on Inauguration Day, and from what people are saying they plan for that day and what we saw this week, that is well-founded fear. I have never felt that for any other inauguration in my life. I don’t know of an inauguration where the threats of violence that are being made have been made before. This is something absolutely different than I have seen in my life. 

I expect inauguration will probably be fine, because there will be a LOT of security. 

I'm much more worried for what happens 2 months later, when everyone relaxes a bit. 

[*Jessica*]

I think we need to listen to what the psychologists, historians, and experts on cults say to do; and probably other experts I’m not thinking of at the moment.  I wish we had a tv channel that was all education for citizens surrounding what’s happening with current events, their historical context, etc.  Not opinion, just straight news reporting and education.  I’m sure if it started under Biden’s presidency Trump Loyalists would call it a socialist propaganda tool and never watch, but I would hope that the majority of Americans would recognize the value.  It’ll never happen, though.  Unless I become ultra-rich, then I will totally find a way to make it happen!  

[Pawz4me]

24 minutes ago, Lecka said:

The person I mentioned who doesn’t believe the Baptists come out of the Protestant Reformation in any way — it ties in very much with not believing that Catholics are real Christians.  

 

 

Yeah, I know the type very well. I once tried explaining--in a very Reader's Digest kind of way, of course (which honestly is about all I'm capable of)--about church history, the Great Schism, working up to Martin Luther, etc. It was futile. "But John the Baptist . . .!"

[*Jessica*]

Americans, maybe all humans, we’re lazy.  We don’t want to have to do more work than we have to.  As a whole, we don’t want to have to research and dig for the truth when we can just look at our favorite news or social media and press like or share; to spend our precious few hours off of work...well, working on our own education; to challenge ourselves to examine our prejudices; and we certainly don’t want to realize how lacking our educations were when it comes to the most important parts of belonging to a society.  We also really don’t like to be made to look stupid.  Even so, many of us are never going to do the work it takes to continue to grow and be better people.  This board is full of intelligent research-loving individuals, but it’s an anomaly.  Most Americans aren’t spending their time the way many boardies do. I don’t know how you change that.  Well, I have ideas, but I don’t think they’re realistic in today’s world.  

[frogger]

29 minutes ago, Frances said:

I both agree and disagree with you. The populace is very concerning, especially given as you succinctly put it that many are living in their own reality. But while I agree that those on either extreme can be dangerous, I also think leaders who are fundamentally unfit to lead and intent on dividing the populace and doing whatever is necessary (lies, disinformation, propaganda, unethical and borderline illegal maneuvers, breaking democratic norms and eroding democratic institutions, etc) in order to remain in power can result in terrible things happening, regardless of how moderate or extreme their policies might be. In other words, I don’t think a divide over policies or the extremes on either side are the only issues we are facing. It goes back to the idea that Not-a-Number frequently espouses, we have to draw a line in the sand and then stick to it regardless of which side we are on and who is in power.

I guess this depends on whether you think the chosen leaders magically get to the top or if those unfit leaders end up there because of what is going on in society. It is hard for me to imagine Trump becoming President 20+ years ago because society was different. It comes down to which came first, the chicken or the egg. I saw our circumstances coming before I knew that Trump specifically was going to be president. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, frogger said:

I guess this depends on whether you think the chosen leaders magically get to the top or if those unfit leaders end up there because of what is going on in society. It is hard for me to imagine Trump becoming President 20+ years ago because society was different. It comes down to which came first, the chicken or the egg. I saw our circumstances coming before I knew that Trump specifically was going to be president. 

I think they kind of... work together? I do think the chosen leader can seriously exacerbate existing issues. 

[frogger]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I think they kind of... work together? I do think the chosen leader can seriously exacerbate existing issues. 

I agree that leaders can exacerbate issues. I also think that if the populace wants a man like Trump then there will be many more Trump like personalities to take his place. 

[regentrude]

3 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said:

So... To get back to the point of the thread. No matter what part of the spectrum boarded are on left or right. We are all scared. We all have anxiety. So what can we do? 

Unplug. Get off the internet, switch off the news.
Take a hike. In the woods. Physical exercise outdoors is great for anxiety relief. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by regentrude

[*Jessica*]

I really hope that the expansion of mental health services due to telehealth means that more people will take advantage of seeking out counseling!  Right now some insurance carries are covering it in full.  If only that would remain a thing and we could get it covered for every American that needs someone to talk to!  My daughter was already in counseling for anxiety (which she gets honestly from both sides of the family, poor kid!) when the pandemic started and it has been every bit as good over telehealth as it was in person.  If anyone is really struggling I hope they will try to avail themselves of the services!  

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Unplug. Get off the internet, switch off the news.

That would heighten my anxiety exponentially.

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Choirfarm3 said:

I walk at least 3 miles every day in the country. 😄

Great. If that's not enough, increase miles so it is an actual exertion. Being physically exhausted helps.