Checking in... Anxiety about current events

[katilac]

3 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Do they feel like they failed the country? 😞 This is so terrible. This wasn't supposed to be their job, not really. 

It's very much their job, but they did not get the planning and backup they needed. 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, Terabith said:

Okay, I'm sorry, I know I'm really behind but....hold up.  

What questions are we supposed to have about Denver International Airport???  I'm confused.  I flew in and out of that airport a lot for awhile.  

Weirdly this comes up on the list of top conspiracy theories although it’s not one ive heard before 

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, katilac said:

It's very much their job, but they did not get the planning and backup they needed. 

I don’t think it’s their job to deal with insurrectionist mobs alone. 

[Katy]

8 hours ago, MercyA said:

I wonder, too. What did they see or hear or experience that has driven them to such despair?

To quote something from earlier in the thread... Many of them came home to, “What happened?” Which they took as, “How could you let this happen?” 

8 hours ago, Terabith said:

6 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

5 hours ago, Terabith said:

Okay, yeah.  That's pretty weird.  I'm not sure that was there 18 years ago, when I was there last.  Or maybe I was just focused on where I was going and didn't notice?  But that's pretty bizarre.  

The mural has been there for at least 25 years.  I remember being bewildered by it in high school. It’s in the arrivals area. I also remember plenty of speculation there were tunnels that continue into the mountains where there’s an underground bunker the size of a city to house... Congress I guess? In the event of a nuclear attack. I can’t remember where I first heard it but one of those Discovery channels had a series on conspiracy theories that started with it maybe 15 years ago. 

[Guest]

22 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

I live in the red zone. As in, I had a piece delivered from Wayfair and I absolutely made sure to be home when it was delivered so none of my neighbors saw a package from Wayfair sitting on my porch. I wish I was kidding but I am not. 

 

And here I am debating over whether to buy two end tables from Wayfair or not, based solely on worry that it is poorly made and will not hold up! So naive...

[Corraleno]

9 hours ago, Vintage81 said:

FYI...an update on this:

 

That twitter summary does not really match the article it's attached to. The article doesn't say anything about Park Police, it says he recently "volunteered" for a job with a small private security firm in DC.

He claims he "pulled up to a checkpoint after getting lost in DC because I'm a country boy," but also says that he has worked for other private security firms in DC in the past.  

He says he "doesn't know what the DC laws are," but also claims he just "forgot" he had a loaded weapon and ammo in his truck until he was halfway to work and didn't turn around because he was running late, indicating that he does know it's illegal to carry there.

An unnamed source says he has no extremist ties, but police were concerned by bumper stickers saying “Assault Life” and “If they come for your guns give ’em your bullets first.” 

He was released on his own recognizance, but was not cleared of the charges, and he was ordered not to enter DC except to attend court or to meet with his lawyer.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

The Denver airport has a seriously weird mural that is the center of a lot of conspiracy theories. Deeply weird. 

 

https://thechive.com/2012/03/08/something-is-rotten-in-the-denver-airport-25-photos/

The murals are weird and the demon-in-the-suitcase is off the charts, but the “Chive” examination of the weirdness is also weird. Also, I would have to see the monument with my own eyeballs to believe it says that New World Order stuff on it. I have been to Denver Intl twice but, silly me, I wasn’t wise to look for that. 

I think the Au Ag thing is definitely meant to be “Silver and Gold”, particularly because it is in a mining cart, though I admittedly don’t know why Silver and Gold should be on the floor in front of that stupid mural. Unless it’s to say, “Chasing after wealth is what brings all this destruction.” And Colorado is a place for mining gold, though I don’t know about silver. 

[Corraleno]

7 hours ago, Cnew02 said:

The Denver airport has a seriously weird mural that is the center of a lot of conspiracy theories. Deeply weird. 

 

https://thechive.com/2012/03/08/something-is-rotten-in-the-denver-airport-25-photos/

I think the mural needs to be seen in the context of the Mexican muralist tradition. It was painted at a time when there was a resurgence of interest in artists like Diego Rivera and David Alfaro Siqueiros, as well as Frida Kahlo (who was Rivera's wife). For example, the Getty was involved in a major restoration project on a huge Siqueiros mural in Los Angeles at the same time the Denver mural was painted, and commissions for murals in that style were common. Here are a couple of examples of murals by Orozco and Rivera — note the similarities between the soldiers in gas masks in the upper left of the Rivera mural and the figure of war and death in Leo Tanguma's mural in Denver. 
 

[Pen]

On 1/15/2021 at 2:35 PM, Ordinary Shoes said:

I don't think saying that this is the most secure election in US history means that there is no fraud. There is always some fraud in every election. The question is whether there is enough evidence that the fraud was significant or made a difference in the outcome. That is what is missing here. There is always fraud and there are always errors. That's why each state has a threshold for an automatic recount. I believe there were slight variations in the vote totals during all of the recent recounts. The GA SOS mentioned during his recent interview with 60 Minutes that there were a few instances of ballots cast by deceased people. I think he mentioned 3 or 4 instances and they are being investigated. 

 

Did you watch all/most/or at least a significant portion  of the state hearings? 

 

Did you look at the Navarro reports ?
 

Are you familiar with the non partisan source Black Box Voting .org?  

 

Adding: This movie, by people from black box voting from 2007 so non partisan organization and not political with regard to current election, might also be a help to understanding: Hacking Democracy https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MKXF28/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_L0ebGb5J7DV9B.  The situation afaik having been following it since 2000 is way worse now than it was with Diebold

Edited January 17, 2021 by Pen

[Wheres Toto]

10 hours ago, Terabith said:

Okay, I'm sorry, I know I'm really behind but....hold up.  

What questions are we supposed to have about Denver International Airport???  I'm confused.  I flew in and out of that airport a lot for awhile.  

Finland doesn't exist?   

I haven't heard of even half of those. 

[Pen]

ordinary shoes or others interested:

Black Box Voting: Ballot Tampering in the 21st Century https://www.amazon.com/dp/1890916900/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_f.ebGbJ534XKF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
 

older but also possibly helpful book - is available online no charge as pdf 

[HeartString]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

 

The mural has been there for at least 25 years.  I remember being bewildered by it in high school. It’s in the arrivals area. I also remember plenty of speculation there were tunnels that continue into the mountains where there’s an underground bunker the size of a city to house... Congress I guess? In the event of a nuclear attack. I can’t remember where I first heard it but one of those Discovery channels had a series on conspiracy theories that started with it maybe 15 years ago. 

I've never seen any of the conspiracy theory shows connect the "secret underground tunnels" to the Cheyenne Mountain Complex.  That actually makes good sense. 

I'll admit to really loving all of the classic conspiracy theories.  Bigfoot, aliens, ghosts and monsters, who really killed JFK.  Fun stuff.  It's good TV to watch when you don't want a plot to follow.

[Drama Llama]

17 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said:

Finland doesn't exist?   

I haven't heard of even half of those. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theculturetrip.com/europe/finland/articles/does-finland-exist-many-dont-think-so/%3famp=1

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Corraleno said:

That twitter summary does not really match the article it's attached to. The article doesn't say anything about Park Police, it says he recently "volunteered" for a job with a small private security firm in DC.

He claims he "pulled up to a checkpoint after getting lost in DC because I'm a country boy," but also says that he has worked for other private security firms in DC in the past.  

He says he "doesn't know what the DC laws are," but also claims he just "forgot" he had a loaded weapon and ammo in his truck until he was halfway to work and didn't turn around because he was running late, indicating that he does know it's illegal to carry there.

An unnamed source says he has no extremist ties, but police were concerned by bumper stickers saying “Assault Life” and “If they come for your guns give ’em your bullets first.” 

He was released on his own recognizance, but was not cleared of the charges, and he was ordered not to enter DC except to attend court or to meet with his lawyer.

Thanks for actually reading the articles for the lazy ones (like myself!) amongst us, lol. 

[SKL]

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I have zero or near zero knowledge of most of those discussed.  Like, I have heard there is something called Q or Q Anon, but that's all I know, because when I see it, I think, "oh, one of those" and move on.  I'm not a person who tries to read into things for secret symbolism etc ... except for a few fun things like ... is this famous entertainer or author sending fans a message /making an inside joke?

That said ... for a long time, I thought Epstein's Island was one of those conspiracy theories.  (I've been hearing about it since long before the mainstream news covered it.)  It bore all the earmarks of the crazy.  Yet ... it turns out there was some truth behind it.  And there have been a few other things like that - they seemed too crazy to be true, but then they turned out to be at least partly true.

So because of things like this, I try to keep an open mind about many things, as long as they aren't demonstrably ridiculous.  I have a pretty strong filter with the people who tend to believe and share things that I consider silly.  I won't discuss them, but I can keep my ears open without doing any harm.

[hopeallgoeswell]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Did you watch all/most/or at least a significant portion  of the state hearings? 

 

Did you look at the Navarro reports ?
 

Are you familiar with the non partisan source Black Box Voting .org?  

 

Adding: This movie, by people from black box voting from 2007 so non partisan organization and not political with regard to current election, might also be a help to understanding: Hacking Democracy https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MKXF28/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_L0ebGb5J7DV9B.  The situation afaik having been following it since 2000 is way worse now than it was with Diebold

I watched part of a hearing with a military cyber security person. He explained how the machines are supposed to be set up in order to be secure, but due to how the instructions are actually written, security measures were effectively negated. 

[BeachGal]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

The mural has been there for at least 25 years.  I remember being bewildered by it in high school. It’s in the arrivals area. I also remember plenty of speculation there were tunnels that continue into the mountains where there’s an underground bunker the size of a city to house... Congress I guess? In the event of a nuclear attack. I can’t remember where I first heard it but one of those Discovery channels had a series on conspiracy theories that started with it maybe 15 years ago. 

My husband used to be involved with nuclear fallout shelters decades ago and said it’s likely there are a number of bunkers in place for the President and Congress as well as others.

We also have movable, underground missile systems.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

Did you watch all/most/or at least a significant portion  of the state hearings? 

 

Did you look at the Navarro reports ?
 

Are you familiar with the non partisan source Black Box Voting .org?  

 

Adding: This movie, by people from black box voting from 2007 so non partisan organization and not political with regard to current election, might also be a help to understanding: Hacking Democracy https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MKXF28/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_L0ebGb5J7DV9B.  The situation afaik having been following it since 2000 is way worse now than it was with Diebold

I am aware of these concerns. I even share some of them. I have only ever voted by paper ballot but was informed by a poster here, this year, that my paper ballot (since it was mailed) was suspect because it wasn’t cast in person and had to be transferred to a scannable ballot. Further, the person claimed that in-person paper ballots were equally suspect because of who was casting/counting them. I’ve never been one to believe that the potential for fraud doesn't exist or that we shouldn’t work to make our elections more secure by having paper trails but those who want to believe in stolen elections aren’t just hanging their hat on machine manipulation. They’re basing their opinions, without evidence, on the belief that certain segments of the population and localities are inherently corrupt and unable to be fair under ANY circumstances.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[katilac]

 

3 hours ago, Corraleno said:

  He says he "doesn't know what the DC laws are," but also claims he just "forgot" he had a loaded weapon and ammo in his truck until he was halfway to work and didn't turn around because he was running late, indicating that he does know it's illegal to carry there.

 

Stating the obvious: it's a gun owner's job to know where their weapons are at all times, and to know the relevant laws. 

1 hour ago, Cnew02 said:

  I'll admit to really loving all of the classic conspiracy theories.  Bigfoot, aliens, ghosts and monsters, who really killed JFK.  Fun stuff.  It's good TV to watch when you don't want a plot to follow.

One of my nephews is a 'fun' conspiracy theorist, and he was complaining the other day that his favorite website had been ruined by politics and calls to violence. "I just want to discuss Bigfoot and watch blurry video of ghosts!" 

Edited January 17, 2021 by katilac

[Not_a_Number]

I'd like to point out that if all we have is vague "gut feelings" about fraud and no evidence... then you have no idea which side cheated if one did. Trump did considerably better than the polls suggested he would; if someone cheated, why not him? 😛 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Ausmumof3]

12 hours ago, Terabith said:

Okay, I'm sorry, I know I'm really behind but....hold up.  

What questions are we supposed to have about Denver International Airport???  I'm confused.  I flew in and out of that airport a lot for awhile.  

And then Putins brother bought a house next door and set up a monolith ... I mean what do you expect when you fly through the portal of evil so many times ?!

[katilac]

9 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I’ve never been one to believe that the potential for fraud doesn't exist or that we shouldn’t work to make our elections more secure 

This. 

People can have more than one thought about  a topic without necessarily being inconsistent. I can think that addressing the potential for election fraud is a good and important thing to do, while also thinking that there was no widespread fraud for this election (and that all legal avenues have been exhausted). 

 This is not directed at Pen, but rather at some people in real life: some people openly doubt that it's possible for me to truly be against both voter suppression and election fraud 🙄 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, katilac said:

This is not directed at Pen, but rather at some people in real life: some people openly doubt that it's possible for me to truly be against both voter suppression and election fraud 🙄 

Well, that's bizarre. Those seem to be addressing the same concern, if you live in the real world 😛 . 

[BeachGal]

On 1/13/2021 at 12:30 AM, Jean in Newcastle said:

I have been wondering about those aerogardens. Are they worth it?  Pros?  Cons?

We love them! I bought one for a son and then had to buy one for myself.

They are very well designed and almost fool-proof. The seeds grow in brown plugs of coco-coir or peat inside little plastic baskets that are immersed in water. The water circulates so it doesn't get stagnant. Every so often, the display will tell you to add fertilizer or top off with more water.

You can reuse the plastic baskets but not the brown plugs. You can also buy the plastic baskets and plugs separately if you want to grow your own seeds. Cheaper and more versatile. That’s what I do.

@Pam in CT Aerogardens now have a separate lid for growing seedlings that you can transplant outdoors. You just have to make sure you get the size that fits your Aerogarden. Pretty nifty!

https://www.aerogarden.com/accessories/garden-seed-starting.html

[katilac]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don’t think it’s their job to deal with insurrectionist mobs alone. 

Yes and no. 

Protecting the Capitol, both people and property, is their reason for existence. Their planning can include requesting re enforcements, and if they did indeed request them ahead of time, not getting them is a huge failure but not theirs. 

But it's also true that they did not implement a lot of strategies that would have lowered the risk significantly: they didn't set up multiple visual and actual barriers, they didn't wear riot gear, and so on. I personally think that, if they had set up proper barriers, there's a good chance the Capitol would never have been breached - they serve an important psychological function, reminding people that it's a protected area and to tread carefully. They didn't have that, and the setup played right into embolding the crowd. 

Strategy, of course, comes from the top, and this is not commentary on the officers who were actually on the front lines. 

[katilac]

13 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, that's bizarre. Those seem to be addressing the same concern, if you live in the real world 😛 . 

In their world, election fraud and working against voter suppression both benefit the left. It says a lot about them that they think my motivation must be to help a certain side, and that the motive of fair and secure elections doesn't occur to them unprompted. 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, katilac said:

Strategy, of course, comes from the top, and this is not commentary on the officers who were actually on the front lines. 

Yeah, I think that's what I mean. This seemed... bigger than them, I guess? When I think about the people who failed, I don't think "Capitol Hill Police." I think about the FBI and such.  

[Corraleno]

2 hours ago, Pen said:

Did you look at the Navarro reports ?
Are you familiar with the non partisan source Black Box Voting .org?  

Peter Navarro is a close ally of Trump's, he was involved in the call to pressure Raffensperger to change the election results, and his report has been throughly debunked.  He relies heavily on "sources" like Bannon, Epoch Times, Newsmax, and OANN, and his main claim is that since Trump was ahead before mail-in ballots were counted, this is proof of fraud, ignoring the fact that everyone knew the unprecedented number of mail-in ballots would take a long time to count and that they would lean heavily democratic since Trump had been warning his supporters not to vote by mail. The administration's plan to declare victory before the mail-in ballots were counted and then claim fraud when it went the other way (dubbed the "Red Mirage") was widely reported on even before the election.

61 of 62 lawsuits alleging fraud have been thrown out, and the only one that wasn't thrown out was about how close observers could stand. The administration's "star witness,"  Melissa Carrone, is a nutbar with a criminal record whose claims on social media (e.g. that she saw a van full of ballots marked for Biden) did not appear in her sworn affidavit. The judge deemed her "not credible" and lawyers could not find even one other person to back up her claims. Dominion said she did not work in their IT department, she was only hired to clean glass screens, and they are suing her for defamation. Other lawsuits were based on demonstrably false statistics, rumors and innuendo, or unverifiable information from secret sources like "Spyder," who claimed to be a military intelligence analyst who could not be identified because of death threats. One lawsuit relied on "statistics" from a survey that had a response rate of 0.4%. Another lawsuit confused Minnesota and Michigan. There are so many errors and absurdities in the lawsuits that any reputable lawyer would be embarassed — not that Sidney Powell and Linn Wood are considered "reputable." Wood has openly called for the execution of Mike Pence, claims he was sent by God, claims SCOTUS won't overturn the election because John Roberts is being blackmailed by the Deep State for child rape and murder, and has been charged with assaulting a former member of his law firm. I've read the legal documents filed against him by his former law partners, and he is very clearly mentally ill.

The Black Box Voting book you mentioned was written in 2004. Saying that theoretically voting machines could be hacked is not a compelling argument that they were hacked, when there is literally zero evidence of it despite all the recounts and intense scrutiny. Multiple Republican officials whose jobs involve election security, including Trump's head of cybersecurity, confirm there was no widespread fraud.

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Corraleno

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

He relies heavily on "sources" like Bannon, Epoch Times, Newsmax, and OANN, and his main claim is that since Trump was ahead before mail-in ballots were counted, this is proof of fraud, ignoring the fact that everyone knew the unprecedented number of mail-in ballots would take a long time to count and that they would lean heavily democratic since Trump had been warning his supporters not to vote by mail.

People said this BEFORE THE ELECTION. It was obvious before the election, because there was such heavy discouragement of mail-in voting by Republicans. 

You can't discourage your voters from sending mail-in ballots and then complain when they don't vote by mail. I mean, you can... but we're back in cognitive dissonance land if you do that. Which is apparently a land many people happily permanently reside in, but I don't want any part of it. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[SKL]

32 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'd like to point out that if all we have is vague "gut feelings" about fraud and no evidence... then you have no idea which side cheated if one did. Trump did considerably better than the polls suggested he would; if someone cheated, why not him? 😛 

Entirely possible.

My point is not that one side or the other is exempt from accusations.  It's that humans are humans and greed is greed, and there is really no point saying "but my side is cleaner than your side" as if that makes one of us a better person.

Most people are decent.  I am pretty sure that goes for almost everyone on this board.  That does not mean that our personal decency extends to everything we ever associated ourselves with, voted for, or believed.  It also doesn't mean that the problems associated with everything we ever voted for or believed taints us personally.  I think if we could remember this, we'd spend less energy contributing to the fight between "sides" that don't really represent any of us very well.

[Not_a_Number]

On 1/16/2021 at 10:49 AM, Not_a_Number said:

I think that would be wise, and I shall also stop. 

Deep-voiced narrator: "She didn't stop." 😛 

[Moonhawk]

Noticeably absent from the graph of conspiracy is spontaneous human combustion (or SHC, to my fellow in-the-knows).

Confirmation confirmed! 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Entirely possible.

My point is not that one side or the other is exempt from accusations.  It's that humans are humans and greed is greed, and there is really no point saying "but my side is cleaner than your side" as if that makes one of us a better person.

Most people are decent.  I am pretty sure that goes for almost everyone on this board.  That does not mean that our personal decency extends to everything we ever associated ourselves with, voted for, or believed.  It also doesn't mean that the problems associated with everything we ever voted for or believed taints us personally.  I think if we could remember this, we'd spend less energy contributing to the fight between "sides" that don't really represent any of us very well.

No one is exempt for accusations but neither are they exempt from having those accusations challenged. In this most recent scenario voter fraud accusations have not only been made but heard in multiple courts of law that dismissed them, largely out of hand, due to lack of evidence. Accuse away!! That’s easily done on a public street corner with a bullhorn and hand-drawn sigh. It’s not OK to continue promoting false claims that have had the chance to be aired in court, under oath, and expect no blowback.  Zero credible evidence materialized. Continuing to promote proven lies does taint a person, sorry. JMO. I cannot look at our current state and contine to hold regard for those that assert “both sides” are promoting these lies.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I cannot look at our current state and contine to hold regard for those that assert “both sides” are promoting these lies.

The convenient thing about the "both sides" narrative is that it absolves you of the responsibility to be discriminating. If there's no difference, you may as well give up on trying to tell the difference and just go with your gut. Why not? 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The convenient thing about the "both sides" narrative is that it absolves you of the responsibility to be discriminating. If there's no difference, you may as well give up on trying to tell the difference and just go with your gut. Why not? 

It also absolves people of the obligation to atone for wrongdoing. Nothing is purposefully wrong or objectively wrong therefore nothing requires atonement. It’s an odd position for Christians, especially, to take.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

It also absolves people of the obligation to atone for wrongdoing. Nothing is purposefully wrong or objectively wrong therefore nothing requires atonement. It’s an odd position for Christians, especially, to take.

Right. Those are the "before" and "after" sides of it, I guess. You're not responsible for choosing the virtuous path beforehand, and you have nothing to atone for if you erred and had chosen the wrong path afterward. 

[SKL]

13 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

No one is exempt for accusations but neither are they exempt from having those accusations challenged. In this most recent scenario voter fraud accusations have not only been made but heard in multiple courts of law that dismissed them, largely out of hand, due to lack of evidence. Accuse away!! That’s easily done on a public street corner with a bullhorn and hand-drawn sigh. It’s not OK to continue promoting false claims that have had the chance to be aired in court, under oath, and expect no blowback.  Zero credible evidence materialized. Continuing to promote proven lies does taint a person, sorry. JMO. I cannot look at our current state and contine to hold regard for those that assert “both sides” are promoting these lies.

Aside from the fact that you are exaggerating your "evidence" here, I still maintain that essentially the same thing was done for over 4 years by the establishment that is now so disgusted by it.

You dislike me, that's fine.  I have had you on snooze for a long time because it has been extremely obvious that I disgust you.  Whatever makes you happy.  If you think posts like this are the way to solve the world's problems, then carry on.

[Corraleno]

The New Yorker just posted some crazy raw video  from one of their reporters who was inside the Capitol.

Rioters tell police to get out of the way, that they are outnumbered, and "we listen to Trump and that's your boss."

There is video of people going through desks in the Senate, rifling through Senators' personal papers and photographing them. 

There are people yelling "Where the f@#$ are they?!" and "Where the f@#$ is Nancy?!"

Some of the rioters in the Senate led a prayer thanking God for making the police let them in and praising Jesus for helping them get rid of the "communists and globalists" and take their country back.

There are a few people telling police "we support you" at the same time crowds in other parts of the Capitol are fighting police and chanting "F@#$ the Blue! F@#$ the Blue!"

The crowd smashes cameras and video equipment in the media area, setting fire to it, and someone suggests destroying the nearby CNN headquarters (to which one guy replies "I don't know where that is, I'm not from around here").

Someone yells “Start making a list, put all those names down, and we start hunting them down one by one.” Lots of shouts of affirmation followed by others shouting “Traitors to the guillotine!” and “We are at war!” Then “Mobilize in your own cities and your own counties, storm your own capitals and take down every one of the corrupt mother@#$%^&s! Hang ‘em!”

Luke Mogelson's full account in The New Yorker is here.

 

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

Aside from the fact that you are exaggerating your "evidence" here, I still maintain that essentially the same thing was done for over 4 years by the establishment that is now so disgusted by it.

You dislike me, that's fine.  I have had you on snooze for a long time because it has been extremely obvious that I disgust you.  Whatever makes you happy.  If you think posts like this are the way to solve the world's problems, then carry on.

Aside from the fact that I didn’t cite any evidence, because it’s impossible to prove a negative, I have nothing against you, personally. I have beef with your IDEAS which reasonable adults should be able to discuss impartially. The fact is that no credible evidence has been presented in a court of law in support of widespread election fraud and that wasn’t the claim four years ago. The claim was that foreign interference influenced PEOPLE, not vote tabulation. I’m sorry that’s not possible for you to discuss right now. Maybe it will be in time.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I’m sorry that’s not possible for you to discuss right now. Maybe it will be in time.

Soooo.... how about those bodice rippers, lol? 

My Kindle keeps showing me advertisement for romances, lol. Maybe it knows something I don't... 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Soooo.... how about those bodice rippers, lol? 

My Kindle keeps showing me advertisement for romances, lol. Maybe it knows something I don't... 

They are very entertaining.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

They are very entertaining.

They've never been my chosen form of entertainment, but perhaps I should give them a try. 

Realistically, though, I should start a new mystery series. I keep having grand plans to read interesting, thought-provoking books, then I dutifully buy them and don't read them, because I really only read when I'm grabbing a quick snack or falling asleep or when the kids give me 10 minutes of peace, and that's not conducive to reading thoughtful books. 

Any thoughts on fun mystery series? Some I've liked so far: 

 

-- Agatha Christie

-- Josephine Tey (although she has some crazy pseudo-science in there, speaking of conspiracies!) 

-- Ruth Rendell's Inspector Wexford series 

 

There's another one I'm blanking on.. anyway, any ideas from the anxiety-busting crew? 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[kbutton]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

The convenient thing about the "both sides" narrative is that it absolves you of the responsibility to be discriminating. If there's no difference, you may as well give up on trying to tell the difference and just go with your gut. Why not? 

QFT. I know a lot of people personally who are embracing this—most people I know IRL. 

[kbutton]

18 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

It also absolves people of the obligation to atone for wrongdoing. Nothing is purposefully wrong or objectively wrong therefore nothing requires atonement. It’s an odd position for Christians, especially, to take.

I watched a video today that was a perfect illustration of this. I assume Corraleno’s post illustrates it also but haven’t watched it yet. 

[MEmama]

For anyone still pretending the insurrectors were antifa, this is the best response I’ve read yet. There’s just no arguing. 
 

That is all.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2021 by MEmama

[fraidycat]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

They've never been my chosen form of entertainment, but perhaps I should give them a try. 

Realistically, though, I should start a new mystery series. I keep having grand plans to read interesting, thought-provoking books, then I dutifully buy them and don't read them, because I really only read when I'm grabbing a quick snack or falling asleep or when the kids give me 10 minutes of peace, and that's not conducive to reading thoughtful books. 

Any thoughts on fun mystery series? Some I've liked so far: 

 

-- Agatha Christie

-- Josephine Tey (although she has some crazy pseudo-science in there, speaking of conspiracies!) 

-- Ruth Rendell's Inspector Wexford series 

 

There's another one I'm blanking on.. anyway, any ideas from the anxiety-busting crew? 

I really enjoyed the Sue Grafton alphabet series.

[Terabith]

5 hours ago, Katy said:

To quote something from earlier in the thread... Many of them came home to, “What happened?” Which they took as, “How could you let this happen?” 

The mural has been there for at least 25 years.  I remember being bewildered by it in high school. It’s in the arrivals area. I also remember plenty of speculation there were tunnels that continue into the mountains where there’s an underground bunker the size of a city to house... Congress I guess? In the event of a nuclear attack. I can’t remember where I first heard it but one of those Discovery channels had a series on conspiracy theories that started with it maybe 15 years ago. 

Okay, so I asked my husband if he remembered weird murals in the Denver airport, and he does.  And now that we talked about it, I do vaguely recall a discussion about weird art, but frankly, it was the first place we lived as adults, and I was usually more concerned with finding our luggage/ departure gates/ figuring out where we were going, so that's probably why it's not a top ten memory for me.  But I think there was more context than that article implied.  

Honestly, Denver is a pretty logical place for sequestering government officials.  It's got the natural barrier of mountains; NORAD is close by, and there aren't any other major cities for a long while.  I wouldn't be shocked to find out that there was some continuity of government space in that area.  West Virginia would be my other thought of logical place for underground bunkers.  

I have heard about Finland not existing.  I don't really get it, but I've heard of it.  

[Frances]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Entirely possible.

My point is not that one side or the other is exempt from accusations.  It's that humans are humans and greed is greed, and there is really no point saying "but my side is cleaner than your side" as if that makes one of us a better person.

Most people are decent.  I am pretty sure that goes for almost everyone on this board.  That does not mean that our personal decency extends to everything we ever associated ourselves with, voted for, or believed.  It also doesn't mean that the problems associated with everything we ever voted for or believed taints us personally.  I think if we could remember this, we'd spend less energy contributing to the fight between "sides" that don't really represent any of us very well.

I think one of the very important things missing here is that much of the current issue is not about the normal sides. People on both sides have tried for five years now to get people to see the dangers of having a certain type of person as president and the threat it poses to our democratic norms and institutions. Even before he was the nominee they were trying to get people to put country over party and even party over candidate (because such a person could cause real harm not just to the country, but to their own party).

And the fact that people still aren’t seeing this even after the events of last week and consider him just another president and continually try to present false equivalence arguments personally scares the he** out of me. Our very democracy is at threat and is ripe for even a greater threat if people can’t or won’t see the historical parallels here. 

So I’m sure many won’t like to hear this, but I do hold people personally responsible for their vote last November, especially the type of smart and well educated people on this board. I could maybe sort of kinda see a 2016 vote. But after all of the clear and convincing evidence over the last four years of his supreme unfitness for office (the Twitter feed alone should have been enough for anyone IMO and that’s just the tip of the iceberg), I do think those who voted for him did contribute to what happened last week and do bear some responsibility, although not of course as much as the president, the perpetrators, and those in leadership or advisory positions who perpetuated the lies, disinformation, and propaganda of a “stolen” election.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Frances

[fairfarmhand]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Entirely possible.

My point is not that one side or the other is exempt from accusations.  It's that humans are humans and greed is greed, and there is really no point saying "but my side is cleaner than your side" as if that makes one of us a better person.

Most people are decent.  I am pretty sure that goes for almost everyone on this board.  That does not mean that our personal decency extends to everything we ever associated ourselves with, voted for, or believed.  It also doesn't mean that the problems associated with everything we ever voted for or believed taints us personally.  I think if we could remember this, we'd spend less energy contributing to the fight between "sides" that don't really represent any of us very well.

YES! This. 

[Not_a_Number]

Well, who exactly is one supposed to hold responsible for the misbehavior of their chosen representatives? If they don't speak for you, don't vote for them. If you vote for them as the "lesser evil," you should be comfortable with the decisions they make.