Checking in... Anxiety about current events

[MercyA]

Just saw this on Reddit and thought of this thread...

[wathe]

9 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

I don't know what training chiropractors get. Do you know? I'd be curious. 

Licensing varies by province.  Ontario requirements link.

The typical training route in Canada:  3 years undergrad with no specific prerequisites for admission to Candian Memorial Chiropractic College, (not necessarily any science), then and 4 years at CMCC.  In Canada, there is just one english language chiro college (CMCC), which is private, and one french language program at a Quebec university.  No residency.  Many Canadian practioners go to the USA for training instead, and quality of training programs is variable.

Chiro practices run as private business.  Chiro is not covered by my province's publicly funded universal health insurance plan.  There is financial pressure to sell the whole package as a kind of brand - which is partially responsible for the wellness-cult and woo feel to many chiro practices in my area, I think.

Edited January 16, 2021 by wathe

[Amira]

I’m another person who was appalled by the election results in 2016, and I wished they were wrong, but I didn’t think they actually were wrong, and I still don’t. I didn’t “accept” the results, but from the perspective that I didn’t want to believe the election had turned out the way it did, not that I was going to join a mob to stop the new president from taking office.

And yes, I’ve spent the last four years “fighting” the results.  But I did it the way I was supposed to, by opposing policies with my voice and joining other women to do so, not by stockpiling weapons and joining a militia.  We want people to speak up, not arm up.

Those of us who are citizens of the US or who live there have so many peaceful ways to effect change.  We have one of the best election systems in the world, even if it’s far from perfect.  We actually can make a difference as ordinary people - I’ve seen it happen over and over in the last four years.  People resorting to violence over fraud claims that we all rationally know are false (even if they might be hard to dismiss emotionally) belies the principles of our Constitution.  We should be working to make sure everyone has an equal voice in the US rather than continuing to indulge fraud claims that have seen their time in court.

 

[Moonhawk]

14 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Just saw this on Reddit and thought of this thread...

Um...I'm almost afraid to ask, but Wayfair the online store is a World Order conspiracy similar to reptilian overloads? Do they sell really bad knockoffs or something? Is this a legit case of "their prices are too good to be true"? What have I missed? 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Moonhawk

[MercyA]

9 minutes ago, Moonhawk said:

Um...I'm almost afraid to ask, but Wayfair the online store is a World Order conspiracy similar to reptilian overloads? Do they sell really bad knockoffs or something? Is this a legit case of "their prices are too good to be true"? What have I missed? 

LOL! I had to google it:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53416247

[SKL]

6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

And THAT is a pretty meaningful distinction. 

I was mostly consuming liberal media at the time, and I don't remember any sense that people thought that Trump didn't win. They may have not liked how he won; they may have hated what it represented; they may have wanted to change things to make it impossible to win in this way, but they thought he had won.

I'd be OK if people were disappointed by Biden's win. That's only to be expected. It's the "he didn't really win" attitude that's really corrosive. 

Again, "he didn't really win" was the theme for sure after 2016.  And while HRC did concede, she took it back and fought to overturn it via legal process for some time.  And even after the inauguration, HRC continued to make speeches in the US and abroad about how she really won or should have won.

You may or may not also recall that there was a big push for the 2016 electoral college to vote differently than what the state populations voted for.  And I think some of the electors actually did that.

A very large % of the USA spent the entire last 4.2 years insisting that the 2016 election was stolen.  Some of the comments on this thread, written by people who think they like facts, are quite revisionist.

[SKL]

5 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

And to go further, the discussion of Russian interference wasn't focusing on overturning or questioning the votes, from what I remember.  It was on malicious social media influence spreading disinformation.  So the assumption was yes, people voted for Trump, but there was a lot of money and effort spent to sway them to vote.  Which does not invalidate the vote count one bit. 

That was the conclusion, but the purpose was to prove that Trump acted illegally during the 2016 campaign, in order to oust Trump.  And you might recall there was in fact an impeachment in 2019, based partly on the same theory (Russia collusion), which failed.

[SKL]

10 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

 

Well THIS has been a surreal Google search. 

Some of my favorite excerpts: 

Anti-Trump protests, some violent, erupt for 3rd night nationwide : 

The protest was mostly peaceful until demonstrators met with an anarchist group, after which demonstrators vandalized buildings, kicked cars and knocked out power, KGW-TV reported. On Twitter, Portland police said many protesters were "trying to get anarchist groups to stop destroying property" and that "anarchists" were refusing to do so. Demonstrators repeatedly chanted "peaceful protest." Officers ordered protesters to disperse after the demonstration turned into what they called a riot, citing "extensive criminal and dangerous behavior." At least 26 people were arrested. Police said the crowd, which included many people armed with bats, threw projectiles at officers, who responded by pushing back against the crowd, then making arrests and using flash-bang devices, pepper spray, rubber projectiles and types of smoke or tear gas to force people to disperse.

However, most concise information is found on this Wikipedia Timeline of Protests Against Donald Trump (which likes to highlight the more notable and violent protests especially). 

Overall, I will cede there was some violence at the news of his election. This violence, I feel called to note, was in the vast minority of the demonstrations and protests. Notable parts from this refresher (that I didn't know previously from my 2016 conservative news fed) is that a lot of the chants were similar to "Love Trumps Hate" etc. There were a few things that were funny like, "We reject the President-Elect!" which sounds fun to chant because it rhymes, but ironically is acknowledging his legitimate status.

I do think I've cited the most violent protest above, though, with the Portland "riot."

---

Frankly I feel a bit nostalgic for 2016 now. 

ETA: re "protests for years" -- no, it seems that the protests were only for months. Protests after his election weren't about his actual election or legitimacy but more about policies/stances and his general character/personality, which after checking Obama's protest Wiki (not as fleshed out unfortunately) does seem to just be par for the course of a president. I can also vouch for this on a personal level since I know multiple people who attended anti-Obama protests whenever he visited their area. 

Well it's usually true, and was on January 6, that the violence was participated in by a small % of the people present, and was not the intent of organizers of the protest.  A lot of what you quoted above sounds like January 6, including evidence that anti-Trump operatives were instigators of violence.  I don't condone any of it, but I want people to be honest with themselves about the fact that both sides are vulnerable to this kind of thing, both because of some elements in their base, and because of manipulation by political enemies.

Edited January 16, 2021 by SKL

[SKL]

4 hours ago, wathe said:

 I'll duck the rotten tomatoes and say that I am not at all surprised.  There is a lot of overlap between chiropractic and woo.  I would not conflate a chiropractic education with a necessarily scientific one.  To be fair, it's a profession that has seen a lot change in the past 15 years or so, with a move toward evidence-based practice.  There is good evidence for chiropractic management of low back pain, for example.  But lots of (maybe even most) chiro practices here are still firmly in the alt. med sphere, selling a wellness-cult flavored product that is pseudoscientific at best, and absolutely compatible with conspiracy theory belief.

Wellness is not a cult, and it is only non-mainstream because MDs tend to ignore it in practice.  Basic wellness practices have much more influence on good health than what we call conventional medicine.  I'm pretty sure that can be scientifically proven if anyone has a motive to do so.

[Ausmumof3]

5 hours ago, MercyA said:

Just saw this on Reddit and thought of this thread...

I encountered the red zone in real life tonight.  That was an experience!

[horsellian]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

Again, "he didn't really win" was the theme for sure after 2016.  And while HRC did concede, she took it back and fought to overturn it via legal process for some time.  And even after the inauguration, HRC continued to make speeches in the US and abroad about how she really won or should have won.

She really did win the popular vote, just not the electoral college.

[Sneezyone]

I’m way down in the green zone, phew. (although I’m quite sure people can find a way to equate COINTELPRO and Russian interference with Q variants). Never mind that there is documentary support, government reports even, for only two of the three.  Over the last few decades, the ‘my hunch/intuition is just as valid as your evidence’ concept has become so entrenched. These discussions will never be especially productive so long as that stance persists and the people who adopt it resist contrary information. I know this isn’t an especially anxiety reducing stance but this feels like an indicator of a nation in decline to me. Just today, WAPOST reported on the denialist movement already underway. I don’t know what to do with or about this level of cray...besides move. I know many Americans don’t believe this but there are other, safer places on earth. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/15/worst-defenses-trump-capitol-riot/

Edited January 16, 2021 by Sneezyone

[Ausmumof3]

So I finally decided to find out what the lizard people was about 

according to Wiki

“According to British conspiracy theorist David Icke, who first published on this theme in his 1999 work The Biggest Secret, tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy against humanity.^[20] He contends that most of the world's ancient and modern leaders are related to these reptilians, including the Merovingian dynasty, the Rothschilds, the Bush family and the British Royal family.^[21] Icke's conspiracy theories now have supporters in up to 47 countries and he has given lectures to crowds of up to 6,000.^[22][23] American writer Vicki Santillano included it in her list of the 10 most popular conspiracy theories.^[24]

A poll of Americans in 2013 by Public Policy Polling indicated that 4% of registered voters (±2.8%) believed in David Icke's ideas.^[25]”

 

I really really hope that that was a seriously flawed poll!

 

 

Politics

 

 

 

[Carrie12345]

18 hours ago, SKL said:

Trying not to violate the politics rules but ... they are terrified of a regime that leans toward communism, because that is what destroyed their families' lives in Cuba.

Which leans heavily on the lie that socialism/socialist practices = communism. Despite the long standing history of so many countries having socialist practices with ZERO signs of communism.  But if it’s said often and loud enough...

[Pawz4me]

2 hours ago, SKL said:

Well it's usually true, and was on January 6, that the violence was participated in by a small % of the people present, and was not the intent of organizers of the protest.  A lot of what you quoted above sounds like January 6, including the recently confirmed info that anti-Trump operatives were instigators of violence.  I don't condone any of it, but I want people to be honest with themselves about the fact that both sides are vulnerable to this kind of thing, both because of some elements in their base, and because of manipulation by political enemies.

We'll need you to show your work on all of that, of course.

[Katy]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

I’m way down in the green zone, phew. (although I’m quite sure people can find a way to equate COINTELPRO and Russian interference with Q variants). Never mind that there is documentary support, government reports even, for only two of the three.  Over the last few decades, the ‘my hunch/intuition is just as valid as your evidence’ concept has become so entrenched. These discussions will never be especially productive so long as that stance persists and the people who adopt it resist contrary information. I know this isn’t an especially anxiety reducing stance but this feels like an indicator of a nation in decline to me. Just today, WAPOST reported on the denialist movement already underway. I don’t know what to do with or about this level of cray...besides move. I know many Americans don’t believe this but there are other, safer places on earth. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/15/worst-defenses-trump-capitol-riot/

Yes. New Zealand is looking better and better all the time. 

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

So I finally decided to find out what the lizard people was about 

according to Wiki

“According to British conspiracy theorist David Icke, who first published on this theme in his 1999 work The Biggest Secret, tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy against humanity.^[20] He contends that most of the world's ancient and modern leaders are related to these reptilians, including the Merovingian dynasty, the Rothschilds, the Bush family and the British Royal family.^[21] Icke's conspiracy theories now have supporters in up to 47 countries and he has given lectures to crowds of up to 6,000.^[22][23] American writer Vicki Santillano included it in her list of the 10 most popular conspiracy theories.^[24]

A poll of Americans in 2013 by Public Policy Polling indicated that 4% of registered voters (±2.8%) believed in David Icke's ideas.^[25]”

 

I really really hope that that was a seriously flawed poll!

What I don’t see there is that it’s also an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. Icke himself vacillates on outright equating “lizard people” with Jews, but to many they are one and the same.  

[I talk to the trees]

8 hours ago, MercyA said:

Just saw this on Reddit and thought of this thread...

Wait, what? Prince Charles is a vampire? No, wait...an alien lizard? Sheesh, people, get your Doctor Who episodes straight! Prince Charles is a werewolf!* All of the alien lizards except one ** have now gone into hibernation. And the vampires were destroyed in a fire in 1580.***

 

Works cited

*Tooth and Claw, season 2

**Cold Blood, season 5. The lone “awake” Silurian is Madame Vastra, first seen in A Good Man Goes to War, season 6. 
 

***Vampires of Venice, season 5

 

Y'all can carry on with the conversation now. Just wanted to point out that we Whovians know the truth! (Edited because although I know the truth, I apparently can't punctuate a sentence without extra periods. I blame my poor typing on the iPad.)

Edited January 16, 2021 by I talk to the trees

[teachermom2834]

I live in the red zone. As in, I had a piece delivered from Wayfair and I absolutely made sure to be home when it was delivered so none of my neighbors saw a package from Wayfair sitting on my porch. I wish I was kidding but I am not. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Nm. Found the Wayfair conspiracy explanation upthread. Yikes. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

We'll need you to show your work on all of that, of course.

The only people I've seen identified were known as far-right figures for years. I suppose I wouldn't be surprised if an anarchist or someone else who's just in it for chaos for its own sake got in there, but I haven't seen evidence. 

But I'm open to evidence. If there's evidence of a serious anti-Trump presence, I'd love to see it. 

[livetoread]

I think the Ds who protested the electors in 2016 were wrong to do so, but up until that point, rational politicians thought it was a game to dabble in wacko stuff from time to time. They could dip their foot in the crazy pool periodically for headlines and pull back without consequences. The adults in leadership made sure nothing really came of the teens acting out.

And then we got a president who embraced the crazy and a critical mass of leadership who cheered it on for political gain, and it got serious quick. Political theater that was simply eye-rolling when done before has been dangerous for awhile now, and many of us could see that was true a long time ago. Those who refused to see it and insisted on pretending it was harmless shoulder much of the responsibility. The context is totally different, and the consequences literally threaten our country.

[SanDiegoMom]

4 hours ago, SKL said:

That was the conclusion, but the purpose was to prove that Trump acted illegally during the 2016 campaign, in order to oust Trump.  And you might recall there was in fact an impeachment in 2019, based partly on the same theory (Russia collusion), which failed.

No: as per Wikipedia, "Trump's impeachment came after a formal House inquiry alleged that he had solicited foreign interference in the 2020 U.S. presidential election to help his re-election bid, and then obstructed the inquiry itself by telling his administration officials to ignore subpoenas for documents and testimony. 

It was not about Russian interference. The Mueller investigation which looked into Russian interference was separate from that.  

[Moonhawk]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

Again, (1)"he didn't really win" was the theme for sure after 2016.  And (2)while HRC did concede, she took it back and(3) fought to overturn it via legal process for some time.  And (4)even after the inauguration, HRC continued to make speeches in the US and (4a) abroad about how she really won or should have won.

You may or may not also recall that there was a (5)big push for the 2016 electoral college to vote differently than what the state populations voted for.  And I think (6) some of the electors actually did that.

A (7)very large % of the USA spent the entire last 4.2 years insisting that the 2016 election was stolen.  (8)Some of the comments on this thread, written by people who think they like facts, are quite revisionist.

I count 8 statements. Two of these statements were made as "opinion"('I think' on #6, and #8 is certainly gut-based unless proved otherwise) but the rest read as facts.

I already gave a response to 1, stating that there was no real movement saying that he didn't win, only that he shouldn't have won (anger about electoral college). There is no comparison to the 2020 movement "Stop The Steal" movement. If you want to show otherwise, please do.

2. No, I cannot find ANY source online for this, please send me a link. My Google results

3. No, HRC campaign did not ask for the recount in Wisconsin, Stein did and then the HRC campaign later got involved from an integrity point of view. From an article, "Clinton was presented with evidence from electoral experts that her vote totals in counties using electronic voting machines was 7 percent lower than those using hand-counted paper ballots and optical scan voting systems, both considered more precise and reliable and less open to miscounts or hacking than the electronic machines... The Russians were accused of hacking email accounts during the campaign to benefit Trump. There was a concern, although no evidence existed to indicate this had happened, that the voting machines might have been hacked. ... The Clinton campaign chose not to exercise its own right to call for a recount after failing to find compelling evidence of voter fraud or result manipulation."

This is a COMPLETELY different approach and stance than then last 2 months of rhetoric from the losing side. I mean... nostalgia in waves now.

Another article addressing 5 state recounts altogether: "Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein is behind recount efforts in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin, states where Republican Donald Trump won narrowly over Democrat Hillary Clinton. In Nevada, a partial recount of the race was requested by independent presidential candidate Roque De La Fuente. Clinton won in that state. And a motion was filed Tuesday in central Florida by three voters who say that the election in Florida, which went to Trump, was marred because of hacking, malfunctioning voting machines and other problems.." 

4-8. At this point, I do not want to fact check any more statements. I started on #4 and was getting frustrated because I cannot find anything but *maybe* you were interpreting some weak statement about the Mueller investigation during an interview as a "speech"?  

I was engaging in good faith and trying to recreate a faithful narrative of the past since you seem so focused on showing how 2020 is the same as 2016. You're making a lot of loaded posts and statements without sources. I feel I am working towards this alone, so I think I am going to stop here. 

edited for easier skimming.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Moonhawk

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, SanDiegoMom said:

No: as per Wikipedia, "Trump's impeachment came after a formal House inquiry alleged that he had solicited foreign interference in the 2020 U.S. presidential election to help his re-election bid, and then obstructed the inquiry itself by telling his administration officials to ignore subpoenas for documents and testimony. 

It was not about Russian interference. The Mueller investigation which looked into Russian interference was separate from that.  

But also... at some point you've got to also look at evidence. There is very good evidence Trump actually did solicit foreign interference in the US election. And there's evidence he has done the same kinds of stuff after this election: called people up and cajoled and threatened in turn to get something he wants.

How is "alleging there's massive fraud without evidence" the same as "alleging someone did inappropriate things to win the election with evidence"? The reason that the fraud allegations are unfounded are the SAME reasons that the foreign interference allegations ARE founded: because Trump operates using a purely win/lose calculus, without paying any attention to the morality or legality of it. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Moonhawk said:

I was engaging in good faith and trying to recreate a faithful narrative of the past since you seem so focused on showing how 2020 is the same as 2016. You're making a lot of loaded posts and statements without sources. I feel I am working towards this alone, so I think I am going to stop here. 

I think that would be wise, and I shall also stop. 

[Ausmumof3]

2 hours ago, Katy said:

Yes. New Zealand is looking better and better all the time. 

What I don’t see there is that it’s also an anti-semitic conspiracy theory. Icke himself vacillates on outright equating “lizard people” with Jews, but to many they are one and the same.  

Yes the context I heard it in was linked to the rothschilds or something 

[Moonhawk]

Re anxiety: I don't necessarily have anxiety around current events, but I'm under the gun on the business and trying to learn a bunch of new skills to make it happen. (If you look at my posting word count over the past 2 days, you can guess how well it's going, lol)

So my stress-relief recipe:

Ingredients

1. Mr Rogers Neighborhood on in the background 
2. The grocery market is now having sales on Valentine's Day chocolates....

Instructions

Mix ingredients liberally. For optimal results, multiple sample boxes (WITH the flavor key) along with know-what-you-get chocolates should both be included.

It took me at least 3 different attempts before I got the proportions just right, but thankfully it looks like there's another few weeks of chocolate sales so I can perfect the recipe well before then! 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Moonhawk said:

Re anxiety: I don't necessarily have anxiety around current events, but I'm under the gun on the business and trying to learn a bunch of new skills to make it happen. (If you look at my posting word count over the past 2 days, you can guess how well it's going, lol)

So my stress-relief recipe:

Ingredients

1. Mr Rogers Neighborhood on in the background 
2. The grocery market is now having sales on Valentine's Day chocolates....

Instructions

Mix ingredients liberally. For optimal results, multiple sample boxes (WITH the flavor key) along with know-what-you-get chocolates should both be included.

It took me at least 3 different attempts before I got the proportions just right, but thankfully it looks like there's another few weeks of chocolate sales so I can perfect the recipe well before then! 

That sounds delicious but perhaps not compatible with my attempt not to gain a ton of pandemic weight, lol. 

[MercyA]

Okay, is anyone else thinking of this scene from So I Married an Axe Murderer?

 

[wathe]

7 hours ago, SKL said:

Wellness is not a cult, and it is only non-mainstream because MDs tend to ignore it in practice.  Basic wellness practices have much more influence on good health than what we call conventional medicine.  I'm pretty sure that can be scientifically proven if anyone has a motive to do so.

Wellness itself is not a cult, you are right.  I think it does nicely describe the way many chiro practices are firmly in pseudoscience territory though.  Which was the point - pp had observed that those with science educations seemed more prone to conspiracy theory belief, then cited a chiropractor as her example.  Chiropractic education does not mean a scientific education, and that many chiros are in fact anti-science in their practice.

Edited January 16, 2021 by wathe

[Jean in Newcastle]

16 minutes ago, wathe said:

Wellness itself is not a cult, you are right.  I think it does nicely describe the way many chiro practices are firmly in pseudoscience territory though.  Which was the point - pp had observed that those with science educations seemed more prone to conspiracy theory belief, then cited a chiropractor as her example.  Chiropractic education does not mean a scientific education, and that many chiros are in fact anti-science in their practice.

I absolutely love my chiropractor.  He's very very good at what he's been trained to do and keeps me literally mobile.  (My skeletal problems are major and very painful.)  But I agree (and he agrees) that many chiros lean anti-science.  I am just fortunate that mine checks out anything he hears in the chiro "network" with me as his "fact checker".  (Not that he has to depend on me but he trusts me as someone who he knows who reads a variety of sources and can explain things to him including US history and culture since he is not from the US.) 

[Frances]

9 hours ago, SKL said:

A very large % of the USA spent the entire last 4.2 years insisting that the 2016 election was stolen.  Some of the comments on this thread, written by people who think they like facts, are quite revisionist.

Once again, just as you did earlier in this thread, I think you are purposely misinterpreting unhappiness with and statements about the electoral college with what is happening now. Yes, many people do not think the electoral college is fair and would like to see it go away and have the popular vote prevail so that one person equals one vote. And there are various movements to change it, including the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. But trying to work for change between presidential elections is not at all the same as trying to overturn the valid results of an election. The key is that Clinton did not try to get the 2016 results overturned after Election Day using the popular vote argument. She quickly conceded and called for the normal smooth transition of power and Obama agreed.

I think you have to admit that frustration on the left with the Electoral College is pretty understandable. Despite only winning the popular vote once in the last 21 years, the Rs have won half of the presidential elections during that time. I’m sure feelings would be similar if the tables were turned.

Here’s an editorial from a conservative source explaining the difference between Trump and other US presidents.

https://thedispatch.com/p/we-knew

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Frances

[Not_a_Number]

10 minutes ago, Frances said:

But trying to work for change between presidential elections is not at all the same as trying to overturn the valid results of an election. 

The difference is night and day. One of these is working within the system, and the other is trying to undermine the system. 

It's the difference between studying hard between chess tournaments to learn your opponent's strategy and moving the pieces around on the board while your opponent's back is turned. It's the difference between practicing shooting hoops in basketball and bringing a gun to a basketball game and threatening to shoot the opposing team if they don't stand still and let you win. 

The key point is that elections, like games, are ritualized combat, and therefore they prey to Prisoner's Dilemma: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

Specifically, they are easiest to win by NOT following the rules and therefore there is incentive to not follow the rules... but as soon as you stop following the rules, everyone loses, because the ritual loses its meaning. 

I really don't know how to communicate the yawning chasm here. I wish I did. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[MEmama]

nm. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by MEmama

[Sneezyone]

2 hours ago, wathe said:

Wellness itself is not a cult, you are right.  I think it does nicely describe the way many chiro practices are firmly in pseudoscience territory though.  Which was the point - pp had observed that those with science educations seemed more prone to conspiracy theory belief, then cited a chiropractor as her example.  Chiropractic education does not mean a scientific education, and that many chiros are in fact anti-science in their practice.

My niece, owner of a Chiropractic clinic, was an early, vocal, and persistent  proponent of hydroxychloroquine. She, too, is a conspiracy theorist.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

My niece, owner of a Chiropractic clinic, was an early, vocal, and persistent  proponent of hydroxychloroquine. She, too, is a conspiracy theorist.

My experience has also been that chiropractors are associated with conspiracies. I knew a LOT of anti-vaxxers who talked about their chiropractors' views, and they seemed broadly aligned. (I've always known lots of anti-vaccine people through babywearing groups and other attachment parenting adjacent stuff.) 

[Pam in CT]

re folks unhappy with the 2016 electoral outcome vs folks unhappy with the 2020 outcome

33 minutes ago, Frances said:

Once again, just as you did earlier in this thread, I think you are purposely misinterpreting unhappiness with and statements about the electoral college with what is happening now. Yes, many people do not think the electoral college is fair and would like to see it go away and have the popular vote prevail so that one person equals one vote. And there are various movements to change it, including the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. But trying to work for change between presidential elections is not at all the same as trying to overturn the valid results of an election. The key is that Clinton did not try to get the 2016 results overturned after Election Day using the popular vote argument. She quickly conceded and called for the normal smooth transition of power and Obama agreed.

I think you have to admit that frustration on the left with the Electoral College is pretty understandable. Despite only winning the popular vote once in the last 21 years, the Rs have won half of the presidential elections during that time. I’m sure feelings would be similar if the tables were turned.

Here’s an editorial from a conservative source explaining the difference between Trump and other US presidents.

https://thedispatch.com/p/we-knew

 

In 2016, there were a lot of folks deeply unhappy with the outcome of the election. I was one. We stressed and stewed and vented; then we pulled it together and sat up to knit pink hats; then stood up and marched; then organized hard for the next electoral round.

What we did not do was orchestrate kidnappings of governors, storm state capitols, break entry into the US Capitol, construct gallows with nooses, bring napalm and IED to the Mall.  Or make repeated cries to overturn the electoral results by force.

There is real difference. The anguish of 2016 was raw and real and carried out within the guardrails of Constitution and law. The anguish of 2020 has not been.

 

And it is not over. This is the United States' first coup attempt, so we aren't well equipped to recognize the signs.  In other nations, coups very often take weeks, not hours, to conclude.  That democracy survived 1/6 does not guarantee it will survive 1/20, or 2021.

The insurrectionists carrying Confederate flags and Nazi insignia, their direct enablers, and their sympathizers all know this.

 

[Ausmumof3]

https://www.9news.com.au/national/us-man-arrested-us-capitol-with-gun-fake-inauguration-credentials-protest-fears/b43bef40-2057-4a1b-8617-f2f36fe13f71

[Alte Veste Academy]

6 hours ago, Moonhawk said:

Re anxiety: I don't necessarily have anxiety around current events, but I'm under the gun on the business and trying to learn a bunch of new skills to make it happen. (If you look at my posting word count over the past 2 days, you can guess how well it's going, lol)

So my stress-relief recipe:

Ingredients

1. Mr Rogers Neighborhood on in the background 
2. The grocery market is now having sales on Valentine's Day chocolates....

Instructions

Mix ingredients liberally. For optimal results, multiple sample boxes (WITH the flavor key) along with know-what-you-get chocolates should both be included.

It took me at least 3 different attempts before I got the proportions just right, but thankfully it looks like there's another few weeks of chocolate sales so I can perfect the recipe well before then! 

I started watching Looney Toons sometime around the election and still find them quite therapeutic. Today I will add chocolate chip cookies.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/us-man-arrested-us-capitol-with-gun-fake-inauguration-credentials-protest-fears/b43bef40-2057-4a1b-8617-f2f36fe13f71

In addition to reporting on the guy with guns, 500 rounds of ammo, and fake inauguration credentials, that article also included this tidbit:

"Military leaders spent chunks of Thursday evening and Friday calling states in an unprecedented appeal for more National Guard troops to help lock down much of the city in the days before President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration. In dribs and drabs, governors responded, some agreeing to send an extra dozen, 100 or even 1,000, while others said no."

So... the same DOD that refused the DC mayor's request for guard protection in advance of 1/6, who refused to deploy the guard while the Capitol was literally under siege and Capitol police were being beaten (to death in one case), who even refused to allow deployment of troops from Maryland and Virginia after Hogan and Northam received frantic calls from members of congress while terrorists ransacked their offices, is now begging states to pull NG troops away from their own capital cities, which are also at risk for violence on 1/20, and send them to DC. The least incendiary word I can think of for that is... ironic. 

 

[Frances]

14 hours ago, SKL said:

but I want people to be honest with themselves about the fact that both sides are vulnerable to this kind of thing, both because of some elements in their base, and because of manipulation by political enemies.

You are conveniently leaving out the most important factor here, the character, personality traits, and motives of our president. Yes, both sides have a fringe element. Yes, our enemies would like to see us weakened and vulnerable. But instead of the usual and very necessary peaceful transfer of power we are here now with thousands of National Guard troops protecting the US Capitol and state capitols throughout the country ahead of the presidential inauguration primarily due to the words and actions of our current president and those who enabled and supported him.
 

People from both sides (leaders, former leaders, national security officials, historians, political scientists, psychiatrists, etc) have been raising the alarm for five years about the dangers of him being president, including what would happen if a narcissist such as him were to lose an election. Here’s one prominent conservative example from almost exactly five years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/opinion/campaign-stops/why-i-will-never-vote-for-donald-trump.html

It boggles the mind after the events of January 6 that some can still be in such denial. The damage he has done to our democratic norms and institutions will continue to impact us all long after he leaves office next week.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Frances

[Not_a_Number]

Apparently, another police officer who was on duty during the riots died of suicide a few days later 😕. Just read that. It's really sad. 

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Apparently, another police officer who was on duty during the riots died of suicide a few days later 😕. Just read that. It's really sad. 

Yes, I just saw that yesterday. From all accounts he was a good guy--friendly, professional, dedicated. Served at the Capitol for 15 years. Horrible. 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Apparently, another police officer who was on duty during the riots died of suicide a few days later 😕. Just read that. It's really sad. 

Other officers have surrendered their guns because of suicidal ideation.  

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

Other officers have surrendered their guns because of suicidal ideation.  

Do they feel like they failed the country? 😞 This is so terrible. This wasn't supposed to be their job, not really. 

[Vintage81]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

https://www.9news.com.au/national/us-man-arrested-us-capitol-with-gun-fake-inauguration-credentials-protest-fears/b43bef40-2057-4a1b-8617-f2f36fe13f71

FYI...an update on this:

 

[MercyA]

37 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Do they feel like they failed the country? 😞 This is so terrible. This wasn't supposed to be their job, not really. 

I wonder, too. What did they see or hear or experience that has driven them to such despair?

[Terabith]

22 hours ago, MercyA said:

Just saw this on Reddit and thought of this thread...

Okay, I'm sorry, I know I'm really behind but....hold up.  

What questions are we supposed to have about Denver International Airport???  I'm confused.  I flew in and out of that airport a lot for awhile.  

[HeartString]

The Denver airport has a seriously weird mural that is the center of a lot of conspiracy theories. Deeply weird. 

 

https://thechive.com/2012/03/08/something-is-rotten-in-the-denver-airport-25-photos/

[Terabith]

30 minutes ago, Cnew02 said:

The Denver airport has a seriously weird mural that is the center of a lot of conspiracy theories. Deeply weird. 

 

https://thechive.com/2012/03/08/something-is-rotten-in-the-denver-airport-25-photos/

Okay, yeah.  That's pretty weird.  I'm not sure that was there 18 years ago, when I was there last.  Or maybe I was just focused on where I was going and didn't notice?  But that's pretty bizarre.