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Where online will we find today’s proceedings at the Capitol?


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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, these people were buddy-buddy with the police. Some of them WERE police. 

Having the police take part in an uprising against the legislators... well... that's something else, isn't it? 

Hmm. The words ‘military coup’ come to mind. 

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So it was just bothering me too much and I had to come back to this. There are a lot of little digs and incendiary words, but I’m going to ignore all that and just get to the meat of the actual positi

It's depressing that anyone on this board - a board that's really, at its core, dedicated to logic and reason and self-education - can believe that the crowd was somehow made up significantly or subst

I had originally written something on this, but deleted it in favor of responding to something more relevant. But I keep coming back to this because I think the larger picture of passing the buck is s

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39 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Using an onion to counteract mace is a myth that you hear sometimes.  It's not impossible that she would think an onion is a solution.   I can sort of see the logic that if you make yourself cry more, you'll flush the irritants out faster.  Having said that, my understanding is that it doesn't work.  

Having said that, I'm not sure which is more alarming.  That she stormed the capitol, got maced and is surprised, upset, and indignant about it.  Or that she lied to get likes on social media, because she's so confident that her white skin and political allegiances will protect her, that she isn't worried about being arrested.  

Yeah, I've decided she's not the sharpest tool in the shed either way. 

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36 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Yeah, I've decided she's not the sharpest tool in the shed either way. 

Except if she’s gambling on the fact that she can go on national media, lie and say she committed sedition, and count on her white skin the protect her she is probably right.  She might be morally reprehensible or completely gullible but she does have a pretty clear understanding of how white privilege works in our society.

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

So, as of this morning it is back to "unverified" on Snopes. This has the image, but some are saying it is ice (and that towel looks really wet so that seems right). And others saying if it was an onion, people use them against tear gas? 

So maybe it is true. In which case, wow. https://twitter.com/Mike_P_Williams/status/1347206934592708612/photo/1

ErIsizqW4AEZC8I?format=jpg&name=large

Oh my word!  I need to know the truth darn it.  

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1 hour ago, BaseballandHockey said:

Using an onion to counteract mace is a myth that you hear sometimes.  It's not impossible that she would think an onion is a solution.   I can sort of see the logic that if you make yourself cry more, you'll flush the irritants out faster.  Having said that, my understanding is that it doesn't work.  

Having said that, I'm not sure which is more alarming.  That she stormed the capitol, got maced and is surprised, upset, and indignant about it.  Or that she lied to get likes on social media, because she's so confident that her white skin and political allegiances will protect her, that she isn't worried about being arrested.  

I’m pondering the fact (if it’s an onion) that she had a peeled onion in a towel along with her.  Either someone who believed the onion antidote theory expected to be teargassed and brought onions along or she planned the hoax in advance and brought an onion along.  I hope someone interviews her and discovers the provenance of the onion.

 

edit:  quick, someone ask her about the onion before she gets a lawyer who reminds her that talking about your crimes publicly is bad for your future.

Edited by Danae
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2 hours ago, Lecka said:

Did anyone else notice Mitt Romney’s face?  I assume it’s from wearing the gas mask things? 
 

I saw on Facebook, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris both mentioned the double standard in how protestors were treated compared to this summer. 
 

It is shocking to me especially now that I’ve seen more video.  
 

Mitt wears a N95 under his cloth mask. Sometimes you see it poke out. I thought his face markings were from the  tight seal on the N95. The gas masks I saw on people when they were evacuating were plastic over the head bag style...would not have left those marks.

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2 hours ago, Lecka said:

Well, they are listening to the President.  That is where it’s coming from.  I don’t think it’s surprising for people to listen to the President and think they are doing what he wants.  

 

You're not supposed to listen to the President and then do what you think he wants. You're supposed to do what is right and lawful (and hopefully those two don't conflict)!

Even if you have a job where you're obligated to obey lawful orders from the President, one, they have to be lawful and two, they have to be orders, not vague ramblings that you think will make him happy.

Quote

Actually I put that because I figured any source I used would get criticized for the source rather than discussing the content. I had made my search apparently a couple hours before stuff later came out. But that is the reason I didn't bother, because I didn't need to get ripped for someone saying xyz site is associated with so and so and only read by horrible people.

You're not going to get a pass by trying to pin this on everybody else. If you don't think your source is reliable, you can always go to mediabiasfactcheck, as stated above. Or you can google "Is this source reliable?", or you can post and say "Hey, is this a good source?" (Just please don't do what my niece did yesterday and call me up at 7 in the morning to ask my opinion!)

Alternatively, you can google some keywords and see what other sources say about your info. Even generally reliable organizations make mistakes sometimes, but if 5 reputable sources are agreeing that your story is wrong, then you shouldn't post it without a few warnings. I did that recently myself - I wanted to share a dismaying story with a friend, but I was worried that it might be unreliable even though I generally trust that publication, and so I checked to see if anybody else had reported on the same set of facts before I shared the link.

You did none of those things, and then you weaseled when people asked you where you got your information. Uncool.

(And for the record, the Washington Times is a right wing publication owned by the Moonies, which are the next best thing to a cult. Neither of these things necessarily means their reporting side is bad - the CSM, after all, holds multiple Pulitizers! - but when their credibility is already shoddy those two facts provide an explanation.)

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4 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Elizabeth from Knoxville has been identified as Elizabeth Koch from Maryville TN.  I think.  

I still can't figure out if it was staged or real.  

ASK ABOUT THE ONION!!!!!

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Just now, Danae said:

ASK ABOUT THE ONION!!!!!

LOL.  I just want to know if she is really whining about 'just trying to storm the capitol'.  

It is not a stretch that she believed the onion would help against tear gas.

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11 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Elizabeth from Knoxville has been identified as Elizabeth Koch from Maryville TN.  I think.  

I still can't figure out if it was staged or real.  

It looked to me that she was pretending by enacting a piece by stitching together a bunch of stereotypes: the way it was done, it did look as if it was supposed to be like Borat or a skit for “The Onion” (get it?). But my demographic is so far removed from such people with such outlooks that I could be 100% wrong.

Edited by mathnerd
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2 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

It looked to me that she was pretending by enacting a piece by stitching together a bunch of stereotypes: the way it was done, it did look as if it was supposed to be like Borat or a skit for “The Onion” (get it?). But my demographic is so far removed from such people with such outlooks that I could be 100% wrong.

The performative social media aspect of the whole thing complicates a lot.  When you mix up people cosplaying insurrection, people performing insurrection ironically, and people actually attempting insurrection it can be hard to tell who is who.

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3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

It looked to me that she was pretending by enacting a piece by stitching together a bunch of stereotypes: the way it was done, it did look as if it was supposed to be like Borat or a skit for “The Onion” (get it?). But my demographic is so far removed from such people with such outlooks that I could be 100% wrong.

Right me too.  But look at the video I just posted.  Pretty sure that one is real and his attitude is unbelievable.  

And did anyone listen to the raging of Ashli Babbitt on that video she did in her car?  Completely unhinged. 

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3 hours ago, Lecka said:

Did anyone else notice Mitt Romney’s face?  I assume it’s from wearing the gas mask things? 
 

I saw on Facebook, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris both mentioned the double standard in how protestors were treated compared to this summer. 
 

It is shocking to me especially now that I’ve seen more video.  
 

 

39 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Mitt wears a N95 under his cloth mask. Sometimes you see it poke out. I thought his face markings were from the  tight seal on the N95. The gas masks I saw on people when they were evacuating were plastic over the head bag style...would not have left those marks.

I agree, looks like N95 pressure injury.  (His face looks just like mine does after prolonged N95 use.)

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re cosplaying insurrection

43 minutes ago, Danae said:

The performative social media aspect of the whole thing complicates a lot.  When you mix up people cosplaying insurrection, people performing insurrection ironically, and people actually attempting insurrection it can be hard to tell who is who.

Fun fact: sedition performed "ironically" is still sedition.  See: Ken White's legal analysis of The Rule of Goats

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1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

See: Ken White's legal analysis of The Rule of Goats

I just HAD to look this up... here’s the sanitized version printed in the LA Times:

The Rule of Goats applies. Slightly paraphrased — for this family newspaper — the rule states: If you kiss a goat, even if you say you’re doing it ironically, you’re still a goat-kisser. 

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I can't even...

Georgia woman trampled to death in Capitol riot brought ‘don’t tread on me' flag to protest

 

ETA: While I'm talking about those who died of "natural causes" during the riots, it is being suggested that a man accidentally tasered himself into having a heart attack.  https://www.revolt.tv/news/2021/1/7/22219433/man-died-at-us-capitol-tasering-himself 

(Not in the article and I do not vouch for its veracity, but many are saying that he tasered himself in probably the last place a man wants to be tasered). 

Edited by OH_Homeschooler
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I also suspect there were people who were going to push it as far as they could, but really expected capitol security to stop them before their conduct crossed the line into federal felonies.  Then when the capitol police tuned out to be woefully unprepared and understaffed they had to decide in the moment whether to pull back from the line or be swept across it.  They weren't prepared for that moment of ethical responsibility and missed it.

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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

 

And did anyone listen to the raging of Ashli Babbitt on that video she did in her car?  Completely unhinged. 

Do you have a link? I'd like to watch this.

Edited by Happy2BaMom
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On 1/7/2021 at 2:29 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Great. We have members ON THIS BOARD claiming it was antifa. Without evidence, at that.

Oh don’t worry, this board has well and truly alienated me many times over. I was retaining this ID to occasionally chime in and give updates, but you’re right. Any different view or assessment isn’t welcome and I should remember that. This pond* would rather stay free of anyone like moi.

Edited by TAFKAPastry
In deference to a friend, picking a nicer adjective.
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4 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

Oh don’t worry, this board has well and truly alienated me many times over. I was retaining this ID to occasionally chime in and give updates, but you’re right. Any different view or assessment isn’t welcome and I should remember that. This cesspool would rather stay free of anyone like moi.

Well, nice knowing you then. 

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3 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

Oh don’t worry, this board has well and truly alienated me many times over. I was retaining this ID to occasionally chime in and give updates, but you’re right. Any different view or assessment isn’t welcome and I should remember that. This cesspool would rather stay free of anyone like moi.

😮 Ouch.

I have no objection whatsoever to hearing different perspectives. That's one of the reasons I come here. Just expect them to be challenged sometimes, that's all. My views have been challenged hundreds of times here. 🙂  I try not to take it personally, and I think it's been good for me.

Hope you'll stick around.

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Washington Post has a detailed analysis of what when wrong with the (lack of) police planning and protection. Here's a summary:

Not only did the Capitol police have no plan whatsoever, they did not even ask for Guard backup until well after the building had been breached. And then the DOD initially refused the request — it was TWO HOURS before they sent even the small contingent who were pulled off traffic duty, and they didn't activate the full DC Guard until after that. 

Meanwhile, Hoyer & Grassley were making frantic calls to Gov. Hogan to send the Maryland Guard, and Pelosi called Gov. Northam to send the Virginia Guard. Both were willing to send troops immediately, but again the DOD initially refused. Eventually, a hour and a half after the frantic requests were made by members of Congress who were In hiding while a mob rampaged through the Capitol, Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy approved the request.

Thankfully, DC police (MPD) sent reinforcements, led by Inspector Robert Glover, who immediately took charge, sent one group of officers to clear Statuary Hall, and sent others to do a door to door search to clear the building. One CP officer said that if not for Glover, the entire Capitol would have been completely overrun and ransacked. The CP union is demanding the resignation of "the entire command structure," saying there was a complete failure of command during the incident.

The fact that the DOD (which controls the DC Guard) not only abdicated their responsibilities in terms of advance planning, they dragged their feet even after the Capitol was breached and the VP and many members of Congress were hiding from the mob, is just inexcusable. They say they were worried about the "optics" of soldiers in the Capitol. IMO what they were really worried about was the  optics of soldiers fighting white, flagwaving, Trump-supporting "patriots."  There have been multiple reports that the delay came from the top, that aides desperately tried to convince the president to deploy the guard but he refused to send them against "his people."

Houston PC Art Acevedo said he thought the CP had a false sense of security because the mob were white and "had their blue lives matter flags," and therefore wouldn't fight police. CP Chief Contee (who was forced to resign) claimed there "was no intelligence" that a breach of the Capitol was possible, to which Michael Chertoff (head of Homeland Security under Bush) said "You didn’t need intelligence. You just needed to read the newspaper. They were advertising, ‘Let’s go wild. Bring your guns.’ You don’t need to have an FBI investigation. You just need to be able to be able to read.” 

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10 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

Oh don’t worry, this board has well and truly alienated me many times over. I was retaining this ID to occasionally chime in and give updates, but you’re right. Any different view or assessment isn’t welcome and I should remember that. This cesspool would rather stay free of anyone like moi.

Is all this outrage because you’re asked to SHOW YOUR SOURCES? Would performative outrage be what you expect from one of your kids if asked to justify their reasoning??

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15 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

Oh don’t worry, this board has well and truly alienated me many times over. I was retaining this ID to occasionally chime in and give updates, but you’re right. Any different view or assessment isn’t welcome and I should remember that. This cesspool would rather stay free of anyone like moi.

Claiming that it was really "antifa" that stormed the Capitol is blatantly false information, not just "a different view." 

Edited by Corraleno
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2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

LOL.  I just want to know if she is really whining about 'just trying to storm the capitol'.  

It is not a stretch that she believed the onion would help against tear gas.

It looked real to me. I know people who would act like that.

A woman who claims to be her cousin says she was actually maced, and it was ice in the towel:

See also:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9126861/Woman-gave-interview-crying-saying-maced-holding-ONION.html

Y'all can criticize my source all you want. 😉 

Edited by MercyA
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I just got back online and had enough energy to post, thanks. Not everyone spends as much time annoying boardies on here and fighting as you do. Though I admit I used to and learned my lesson. I believe the side by side was Post Millenial, WashTimes, and some independent sourcing via Cheong and Posobiec. I’m not forming a firm opinion for awhile yet as investigations into the arrests are ongoing.

The caterwauling about alternative viewpoints on this forum are why I left to begin with, and the echo chamber here is strong. I am sure most of you are happier for it, I know I am. But in the interest of intellectual honesty, perhaps self evaluating how this protest and mob was treated compared to the ones raging in neighborhoods around this country all summer would be in order. Or even the flaming cars and broken windows from the exact same town earlier in the year. Since we are all so interested in intellectual integrity and honesty here. But I don’t expect to see that no matter how long I lurk.

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1 minute ago, TAFKAPastry said:

But in the interest of intellectual honesty, perhaps self evaluating how this protest and mob was treated compared to the ones raging in neighborhoods around this country all summer would be in order.

Intellectual honesty, eh? How would you have felt if one of the crowds of protesters broke into the Capitol this summer?

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1 hour ago, TAFKAPastry said:

Oh don’t worry, this board has well and truly alienated me many times over. I was retaining this ID to occasionally chime in and give updates, but you’re right. Any different view or assessment isn’t welcome and I should remember that. This cesspool would rather stay free of anyone like moi.

I was asked to remove her new username and was specifically told to ask anyone interested in who she is to PM me. I am doing that but I want to go on record to say that I don’t agree with it. 

Edited by Jean in Newcastle
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6 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

I just got back online and had enough energy to post, thanks. Not everyone spends as much time annoying boardies on here and fighting as you do. Though I admit I used to and learned my lesson. I believe the side by side was Post Millenial, WashTimes, and some independent sourcing via Cheong and Posobiec. I’m not forming a firm opinion for awhile yet as investigations into the arrests are ongoing.

The caterwauling about alternative viewpoints on this forum are why I left to begin with, and the echo chamber here is strong. I am sure most of you are happier for it, I know I am. But in the interest of intellectual honesty, perhaps self evaluating how this protest and mob was treated compared to the ones raging in neighborhoods around this country all summer would be in order. Or even the flaming cars and broken windows from the exact same town earlier in the year. Since we are all so interested in intellectual integrity and honesty here. But I don’t expect to see that no matter how long I lurk.

Let me ask you a question. If you're so interested in intellectual honesty, why can't you post your sources? Last I checked, your sources have recanted, anyway. But we could have had a conversation about that. 

See that conversation upthread we were having about Elizabeth and whether she was pretending to cry or not? Everyone cites their sources. We talk about it. We try to figure out what's true and what's false. (We still aren't sure, lol.) 

Why can't we do this with this claim that this is all Antifa? Is there something beyond examination in this opinion? 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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10 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

But in the interest of intellectual honesty, perhaps self evaluating how this protest and mob was treated compared to the ones raging in neighborhoods around this country all summer would be in order. Or even the flaming cars and broken windows from the exact same town earlier in the year. Since we are all so interested in intellectual integrity and honesty here. But I don’t expect to see that no matter how long I lurk.

Are you saying that the mob that broke into the Capitol, took selfies with police, ransacked offices, and then were helpfully escorted out, with very few arrests after having committed multiple federal crimes, were treated worse than, say, the peaceful protestors who were gassed and attacked so the president could have a photo op in front of a church last summer?

Trump to BLM protestors: "When the looting starts, the shooting starts."
Trump to the armed mob that just stormed the capitol, ransacked offices, and forced Congress into hiding: "We love you. You are very special."

Edited by Corraleno
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I just looked it up. In the BLM protests, 25 people died over the course of the summer. 

In the protests yesterday, 5 people died in ONE DAY. And that was given the fact that they didn't find anyone they actually wanted to hurt, like the Democratic legislators. 

Whatever you think of the BLM protests, you cannot argue that the protests yesterday were more peaceful. Unless, of course, they are more peaceful by definition, because anything else is untenable within your belief system. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Unfortunately not for long. Every time I even come by here I’m reminded of exactly why I can’t be involved, even just to see what’s going on or post kid updates. It’s just not healthy on so many levels. I swore I’d keep an active ID long enough for a happy postpartum update, but am thinking that’s not a great idea due to the environment and posters. My bad.

Edited by TAFKAPastry
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2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I just looked it up. In the BLM protests, 25 people died over the course of the summer. 

In the protests yesterday, 5 people died in ONE DAY. And that was given the fact that they didn't find anyone they actually wanted to hurt, like the Democratic legislators. 

Whatever you think of the BLM protests, you cannot argue that the protests yesterday were more peaceful. Unless, of course, they are more peaceful by definition, because anything else is untenable within your belief system. 

Yesterday 60 cops were injured, 15 were hospitalized, and 1 died. So much for "blue lives matter."

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

If you decide to be "involved" by posting fake information and then getting extremely huffy when asked to justify it... then yeah, maybe involvement in these specific threads isn't for you. 

Maybe you should stick to the non-political threads until you've spent some thinking about whether your political beliefs are actually falsifiable. If they are such a core part of your identity that even the IDEA of justifying your facts offends you, there's probably no point talking to anyone who doesn't agree with you 100%. I'm sure you have those spaces, so you may as well just talk about politics there, and keep these forums for baby updates and education talk. 

Don’t engage. It will just get the thread locked. We’ve largely had a civil and fact based discussion. Derailing is the goal.

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3 minutes ago, TAFKAPastry said:

Unfortunately not for long. Every time I even come by here I’m reminded of exactly why I can’t be involved, even just to see what’s going on or post kid updates. It’s just not healthy on so many levels. I swore I’d keep an active ID long enough for a happy postpartum update, but am thinking that’s not a great idea due to the environment and posters. My bad.

Honestly, I don't know why you would want to update them on anything. They don't care. They treat you like this over and over again. You, your sanity and your well being are worth more than arguing with nobodies who vomit thousands of posts per month because they have ego issues. 

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Just now, Sneezyone said:

Don’t engage. It will just get the thread locked. We’ve largely had a civil and fact based discussion. Derailing is the goal.

You're right. This is what my Ignore list is for. 

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5 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said:

Honestly, I don't know why you would want to update them on anything. They don't care. They treat you like this over and over again. You, your sanity and your well being are worth more than arguing with nobodies who vomit thousands of posts per month because they have ego issues. 

I know you’re right, and I thought I could compartmentalize better. It was my mistake, though I’m glad I’ve been able to message and touch bases privately with a few people in the meantime. But the groupthink and verbal slices are just too much to make it worth it, even in simply trying to find a thread on a board that asked about me. Happy chimed in anyway, so I probably shouldn’t have bothered trying to find it to say hi in person. 
 

Edited by TAFKAPastry
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