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Posted

My daughter is in 5th grade, and I'm looking for math curriculum suggestions. We did RightStart for three years then switched to Saxon. She loved RightStart, but I found it exhausting to teach. I also noticed that she was falling way behind on her basic math skills. She understood concepts flawlessly but spent ages trying to work out basic math problems. Switching to Saxon took care of this. She benefited tremendously from the constant repetition and really is doing well in math overall. We have two major problems, though. She hates it, and a lesson takes her forever. She has ADHD, and is extraordinarily inattentive (not at all hyperactive), and even having her do only evens or odds or shortcutting through a lesson in some other way, it still takes all morning. The bigger problem is that she hates math now. She thinks it's not Saxon but just math, but I remember when she liked math! I want to get back to that. I don't think it would take so long if she just liked it.

She loves computer work, but I don't let her do much of anything on the computer since I want her learning with real pen and paper. I've considered letting her do math, though, since it could be motivating.

She absolutely loves reading, for whatever that's worth. 

I have five kids, our youngest being medically fragile, and I'm now in my third trimester with #6. We are moving out of state in four months. I can't do anything teacher intensive, unfortunately!

Any ideas??

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Posted

For a kid who likes to read, I would recommend Life of Fred... with reservations. Reservation #1: Only 10 problems per chapter until you get to Beginning Algebra, which has a "Zillions of Practice Problems" companion book. Some kids, like my DS, do OK with the smaller amount of practice, but my DD floundered with it once she started the Fractions book. (After loving the Elementary and Intermediate sets.) Reservation #2: It claims to be self-teaching, but my kids didn't have the maturity for that. I think a 5th grader could definitely read the lesson by herself, but she would need some supervision with checking her answers--you would probably need to have her show you her completed practice before she is allowed to turn the page and look at the worked-out solutions, and you should go over the answers together. Additionally, some of his solutions are less than clear, so you may find yourself needing to explain how to solve a problem in different words or by a different method. I don't know if that is what you're thinking when you say teacher intensive. However, my math-averse DD really enjoyed it and it felt like a refreshing change of pace for her after coming home from PS.

I've heard good things about Beast Academy, but we never tried it. I hope other people chime in with other options for you!

Posted
52 minutes ago, tilbutton said:

I also noticed that she was falling way behind on her basic math skills. She understood concepts flawlessly but spent ages trying to work out basic math problems.

That's how conceptual math works, though. You spend a while working out "basic" problems, but you really get the ideas down. The drill comes later. Can you give me an example of a problem it took her ages to do? 

When she liked math, were you doing Right Start? 

Posted

Yes- we were doing RightStart when she liked Math. We jumped ship during third grade in level C. She could understand how to multiply based on what it meant and then spend thirty minutes trying to work out 5x6. She never could add or subtract quickly, either. She liked the games and the fact that it was a lot of mental math and just answering questions out loud but there was very little writing or drills (her least favorites).

Posted
Just now, tilbutton said:

Yes- we were doing RightStart when she liked Math. We jumped ship during third grade in level C. She could understand how to multiply based on what it meant and then spend thirty minutes trying to work out 5x6. She never could add or subtract quickly, either. She liked the games and the fact that it was a lot of mental math and just answering questions out loud but there was very little writing or drills (her least favorites).

I'm kind of sorry you jumped ship on Right Start since she liked it... it sounded like adding some drill to it would have solved the problem! What would her process for 5*6 look like? 

Posted
1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm kind of sorry you jumped ship on Right Start since she liked it... it sounded like adding some drill to it would have solved the problem! What would her process for 5*6 look like? 

She could figure out a way to multiply most things, so five times six might be counting by fives six times. Other ones were more complicated, but she could figure it out in a way I wouldn't have expected. She just didn't have anything memorized and could never recall anything that she'd worked out before. The bigger problems we had with RightStart were that I was pulling my hair out trying to teach it, and the games didn't get played often enough because the lesson took too long. I had a hard time understanding the lesson on the fly because I was constantly being interrupted by the younger ones. It took a lot of mental effort for me, and I never could get organized enough to prepare a lesson well. I wondered if having the second edition would have helped. Or if I could have adapted lessons better to suit her? Overall, I just burned out really badly and wanted something open and go. I'm revisiting it all right now.

Posted
1 minute ago, tilbutton said:

She could figure out a way to multiply most things, so five times six might be counting by fives six times. Other ones were more complicated, but she could figure it out in a way I wouldn't have expected. She just didn't have anything memorized and could never recall anything that she'd worked out before.

So, I don't have Right Start, but I teach my kids in the same kind of conceptual way, and I had to make a concerted effort to do some drilling AFTER DD8 got fluent at figuring out all the mental tricks. I would first build up ALL the methods, then we'd do pretty hardcore drilling -- we'd drill walking around, but I'm sure flashcards/games/apps would have worked for that, too. (First working out all the methods made it easier for things to be done quick as we'd drill, if she didn't remember.) 

I'm not entirely sure what to suggest, because I only have 2 kids, and I do try to teach in a hands-on way... I think it's actually pretty essential for teaching math well, but I absolutely understand that it might not be feasible 😞 . 

Do you think you could maybe mix it up and do something like Right Start on some of the days? The other very conceptual curriculum I know of is Beast Academy, but it's very puzzle based and very low on drill as well. What curricula have you looked at? 

Posted

Here’s one suggestion, perhaps it will help. 

Our similarities:  I tried RS and also found it too parent intensive. (I did RS B with DD, not DS).  DS has ADHD. 

I have found SIngapore to be a good fit for us. THe uncluttered pages (I used Singapore Standards) are really important for the ADHD aspect — my DS used to get so distracted if the page was too cluttered.  SIngapore was much easier for me to teach, as most of what you need is in the Textbook. You can read through the teacher guide (home instructor’s guide) to familiarize yourself with concepts. When you actually teach your child, you only need the textbook, pencil and paper, and occasional manipulatives. (At the 5th grade level, I don’t’ recall us needing many manipulatives.)

I run two types of math with DS every day — “review” and the actual lesson. THe “review” is usually a few problems from a topic we’ve already covered, to keep it fresh. Alternatively, it’s a few problems that are harder for DS, but which would overwhelm him if we did only that type of problem (hence, giving 1-2 per day). For “review” I usually use the INtensive Practice book. 

The actual lesson is whatever the lesson is in the main textbook /Workbook for the day.

Does she hate math because the inattention makes it hard for her to accurately solve the problems? That is my DS”s issue - he understands concepts, but can’t accurately solve problems due to inattention. So I try to be really encouraging, and run the “review” section to help him practice close attention to more complex problems., 

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Posted
1 hour ago, tilbutton said:

Yes- we were doing RightStart when she liked Math. We jumped ship during third grade in level C. She could understand how to multiply based on what it meant and then spend thirty minutes trying to work out 5x6. She never could add or subtract quickly, either. She liked the games and the fact that it was a lot of mental math and just answering questions out loud but there was very little writing or drills (her least favorites).

You always should do drills outside of math class otherwise. Usually, programs that work out the best will not try to make drill a part of the program. Also, for us, I found that allowing my children to use a multiplication table actually helped them learn their math facts. They would look them up at first but eventually, just remembered them. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Janeway said:

You always should do drills outside of math class otherwise. Usually, programs that work out the best will not try to make drill a part of the program. Also, for us, I found that allowing my children to use a multiplication table actually helped them learn their math facts. They would look them up at first but eventually, just remembered them. 

Thank you- sounds like good advice. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

So, I don't have Right Start, but I teach my kids in the same kind of conceptual way, and I had to make a concerted effort to do some drilling AFTER DD8 got fluent at figuring out all the mental tricks. I would first build up ALL the methods, then we'd do pretty hardcore drilling -- we'd drill walking around, but I'm sure flashcards/games/apps would have worked for that, too. (First working out all the methods made it easier for things to be done quick as we'd drill, if she didn't remember.) 

I'm not entirely sure what to suggest, because I only have 2 kids, and I do try to teach in a hands-on way... I think it's actually pretty essential for teaching math well, but I absolutely understand that it might not be feasible 😞 . 

Do you think you could maybe mix it up and do something like Right Start on some of the days? The other very conceptual curriculum I know of is Beast Academy, but it's very puzzle based and very low on drill as well. What curricula have you looked at? 

It sounds like I need to increase the drills in a fun way. I'll try to look into that. I have looked at Teaching Textbooks, Singapore, and briefly at Beast Academy. I might need to just modify Saxon to make it more fun instead of switching curriculum again. I'm so bad at modifying. I struggle with supplementing because that means time away from the book, and I always get scared we'll get behind. If I have a plan, I do well, but I'm rotten at winging it.

Posted
8 hours ago, tilbutton said:

It sounds like I need to increase the drills in a fun way. I'll try to look into that. I have looked at Teaching Textbooks, Singapore, and briefly at Beast Academy. I might need to just modify Saxon to make it more fun instead of switching curriculum again. I'm so bad at modifying. I struggle with supplementing because that means time away from the book, and I always get scared we'll get behind. If I have a plan, I do well, but I'm rotten at winging it.

I have to say, I've never heard anyone describe Saxon as fun 😛 . People sometimes like how solid it is, people like the spiral, but a fun curriculum it is not. 

I like the suggestion of Singapore Math -- I've heard good things about it. And Beast Academy can be a fun add-on. 

When we supplemented the drill, we'd do it outside our standard math time. I've heard people schedule in drill as a separate time in the day. I think it doesn't need to take very long each day, as long as you do it consistently! And you can absolutely make it "fun" -- make it an online game or a game with you. 

Posted

Have you tried sitting with her while she does Saxon?  Have her do as much as she can orally, as this can really speed things up.

That said, Saxon has a way of sucking the joy out of math.  I like Singapore.  It is structured so that there is a piece you'll do with her interactively and then another piece she does independently.  The independent piece has much fewer problems than a Saxon problem set.  If you've been doing RightStart with her, you're probably pretty well versed in teaching conceptual elementary math, but even so, reading through the book Elementary Mathematics for Teachers before you begin will give you an excellent framework to work from.

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Posted
1 minute ago, tilbutton said:

Thank you so much, everyone. I bought the Singapore books, and we're going to give it a whirl. I feel a lot better about the whole thing! Thanks again 😊

Please let us know how they go!! 

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