Jean in Newcastle Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 8 minutes ago, Matryoshka said: bonbon and dawndawn would sound the same, though! Someone needs to tell me what the other possible sounds are.... I agree. I also pronounce "awe" the same as the vowel in "on" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 All sound the same and are said the same - like Mary. From California...but raised by Kansas-raised parents, if it makes a different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 18 minutes ago, Matryoshka said: bonbon and dawndawn would sound the same, though! Someone needs to tell me what the other possible sounds are.... Really?? I think bonbon has an ah and dawndawn has an aw... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said: Really?? I think bonbon has an ah and dawndawn has an aw... It might for you, but not 'round these parts. Are your in-laws locals here, or translplants? If the former, have them give you a sample... So are the "Don is different' folk pronouncing it Dahn? Like Father? But that's an A sound, how is that better? ... and speaking of -aw sounds, I have no explanation of why in the north we pronounce lawyer as loi-yer. But 'law' by itself is still law, not loi. So I have no idea. Edited December 20, 2020 by Matryoshka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Just now, Matryoshka said: It might for you, but not 'round these parts. Are your in-laws locals here? Have them give you a sample... No, they are from NY and NJ. Not native Bostonites 🙂 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Just now, Not_a_Number said: No, they are from NY and NJ. Not native Bostonites 🙂 . Aha. Too bad there's a quarantine on, you could wander around and ask people to enunciate for you... 😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Just now, Matryoshka said: Aha. Too bad there's a quarantine on, you could wander around and ask people to enunciate for you... 😂 I'll ask DH. He went to school with lots of native Bostonians 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xahm Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I'm from the Atlanta suburbs, but really from here for generations. This meant that my classmates always thought I had a strong accent, but if we went fort five minutes in any direction, people asked me where I was from, thinking I couldn't be southern. All that to say, I pronounce Mary, marry, and merry the same, like mare-ee. The exception is that I know some people named Mary who pronounce their name May-ree, so I'll generally go with that when talking about them. Like some Sarahs some here are Say-ra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I think most people around here (midwest / great lakes) pronounce it similar to Mary, but I tend to pronounce things a little differently. I say a different vowel sound and hold the "a" sound a little longer than the "e" sound. It is the same difference with tarry & Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoyaPechal Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 21 hours ago, barnwife said: I've lived most of my life in the Midwest (WI, specifically). Merry/marry/Mary are all said the same. They rhyme with carry. Same here. Grew up in Connecticut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Matryoshka said: bonbon and dawndawn would sound the same, though! Someone needs to tell me what the other possible sounds are.... 2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said: Really?? I think bonbon has an ah and dawndawn has an aw... THIS!!!!! 1 hour ago, Matryoshka said: It might for you, but not 'round these parts. Are your in-laws locals here, or translplants? If the former, have them give you a sample... So are the "Don is different' folk pronouncing it Dahn? Like Father? But that's an A sound, how is that better? ... and speaking of -aw sounds, I have no explanation of why in the north we pronounce lawyer as loi-yer. But 'law' by itself is still law, not loi. So I have no idea. Don rhymes with Khan, like in the Wrath of Khan. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 56 minutes ago, Wheres Toto said: THIS!!!!! Don rhymes with Khan, like in the Wrath of Khan. 😂 Well, that's just crazy talk. LOL. But thanks, that does at least explain it. Here, Don rhymes with pawn, but NOT with Khan, that is something else entirely, so at least now I can figure what you're getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Wheres Toto said: I've lived in Northern NJ my whole life and I've never heard Goosey Night. I'm about 30 minutes from NYC (without traffic). We call that night Mischief Night. 3 hours ago, Carrie12345 said: Clifton? Most people apparently call it Mischief Night. @Carrie12345 you are sooo close. Paterson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Goosey Night - https://www.nj.com/bergen/2014/10/mischief_night_cabbage_night_goosey_night_what_does_it_all_mean.html "Goosey Night is more prevalent in western Bergen County and Passaic County, and the origins of the term are murkier. Wyckoff Police Chief Benjamin Fox used the term in a letter to parents urging them not to let their kids go out. Carol D'Alessandro of the Passaic County Historical Society said she remembers using the term growing in Pompton Lakes, but doesn't know where it came from. "The Jews of Paterson," a history by David Wilson, calls Goosey Night a "Paterson Tradition," during which boys in the 1940s would soap up car and store windows, but also offers no explanation as to where the term came from." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carrie12345 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said: Most people apparently call it Mischief Night. @Carrie12345 you are sooo close. Paterson. Dang it! My mom, Dawn, lol, was born in Paterson, but graduated Clifton. She’s said it before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Mary, Merry, and Marry are all the same to me. I grew up in Central Maryland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 What about knotty and naughty ? Do people who say dawn and don the same say those the same too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 3 minutes ago, Pen said: What about knotty and naughty ? Do people who say dawn and don the same say those the same too? Why yes, those sound exactly the same. 😁 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Pen said: What about knotty and naughty ? Do people who say dawn and don the same say those the same too? Yes. Homophones: Knotty and Naughty sound exactly the same; they rhyme with spotty. Dawn and Don sound exactly the same; they rhyme with Khan, on, spawn, and faun. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 5 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: Yes. Homophones: Knotty and Naughty sound exactly the same; they rhyme with spotty. Dawn and Don sound exactly the same; they rhyme with Khan, on, spawn, and faun. Wait, what? All of those rhyme for me except khan, which has a different sound than all the rest. That does *not* rhyme with con (which would rhyme with kawn, if that were a word). But, yeah, not, knot, and naught are all homophones and have the same vowel sound as Don/dawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Amethyst said: Ok if we’re going to talk about names...I can’t stand when people pronounce my name (Karen) as CARE-in. It’s Karen. Karen. The a is like the a in bat. I'm just going to apologize for all the clueless people who have mispronounced your name because honestly in all my life I've never heard your name pronounced any way other than CARE-in and would have been very befuddled if you told me I was saying it wrong because before this thread I wouldn't even know how else to pronounce it. And now, well I'm back to trying to saying the short a sound next to an r in the first syllable and failing miserably. Is by chance the R in the second syllable? (And I'm really really hoping you say yes) Because maybe then I might stand a chance of being able to pronounce your name the way you would like and would make sense with the syllablication that we discussed upthread. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 Just now, cjzimmer1 said: I'm just going to apologize for all the clueless people who have mispronounced your name because honestly in all my life I've never heard your name pronounced any way other than CARE-in and would have been very befuddled if you told me I was saying it wrong because before this thread I wouldn't even know how else to pronounce it. And now, well I'm back to trying to saying the short a sound next to an r in the first syllable and failing miserably. Is by chance the R in the second syllable? (And I'm really really hoping you say yes) Because maybe then I might stand a chance of being able to pronounce your name the way you would like and would make sense with the syllablication that we discussed upthread. Whoa. I've never heard Karen pronounced CARE-in. But in this case it isn't the syllabification- the R is definitely in the first syllable, but sounds, of course, nothing like CAR. As Amethyst says, it's like the A in Bat. But with an R after. I do have a friend who pronounces it CAR-in, like CAR, but it's because her family was Swedish, and that's how they pronounce it there. She has to correct everyone all the time, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 I just tried DH!! His merry, marry, and Mary all sound different! And his “dawn” and “Don” do, too. He’s brought up by parents from NY and NJ in the suburbs of Boston. He says that online dialect checkers tell him he sounds like he’s from Philly, though... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not_a_Number Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 On the other hand, for my sister from Toronto, merry and marry are the same but Mary is different. And dawn and Don are the same, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjzimmer1 Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 6 minutes ago, Matryoshka said: Whoa. I've never heard Karen pronounced CARE-in. But in this case it isn't the syllabification- the R is definitely in the first syllable, but sounds, of course, nothing like CAR. As Amethyst says, it's like the A in Bat. But with an R after. I do have a friend who pronounces it CAR-in, like CAR, but it's because her family was Swedish, and that's how they pronounce it there. She has to correct everyone all the time, lol. CARE rhyming with AIR? I'm still trying to get the short a sound that I use in bat, cat, sat next to an R and I truly can't make that sound. Maybe we are making slightly different short a sounds? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) On 12/19/2020 at 5:27 PM, MissLemon said: Merry rhymes with cherry. Mary rhymes with hairy. I grew up in the NYC area. Yes, Merry rhymes with cherry which also rhyme with Mary, Berry, Marry, Carry, Larry 🙂 Don and Dawn sound a like, as do Laura and Lora. I will admit that I do say Laura differently now. I can't remember if it was because of this board or if a Laura IRL got upset with me 😁 Midwest, Iowa Edited December 20, 2020 by SquirrellyMama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said: CARE rhyming with AIR? I'm still trying to get the short a sound that I use in bat, cat, sat next to an R and I truly can't make that sound. Maybe we are making slightly different short a sounds? When I say AIR it sounds like AYER but said quickly. CARE has that same sound. Kind of like CAYER. It isn't a short a sound but it is also not a drawn out sound. Kelly Edited December 20, 2020 by SquirrellyMama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted December 20, 2020 Share Posted December 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Pen said: What about knotty and naughty ? Do people who say dawn and don the same say those the same too? They sound different to me too. Not, knot, knotty, rot, pot, hot, lot all sound the same. Naughty has the awe sound. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said: Ok, I've been trying and how do you do that? I cannot make the short a sound in Karen. Like I tried, but it sounds like care Yeah, but care has a long A! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Just now, Choirfarm3 said: No, it has a short a Care has a short a?! Uh, no. Silent E, long vowel. Same sound as fair and bear. Long A. What words *do* have long A then? For you, cat (short A) and Kate (long A - same as care) sound the same??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Choirfarm3 said: It is the addition of the r soun. I cannot do ca as in cat and then add an r. It comes out air not short a with r Hmm. Try elongating it? kaaaaaah-r? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Choirfarm3 said: Ok, I've been trying and how do you do that? I cannot make the short a sound in Karen. Like I tried, but it sounds like care I can't either. Plus I know several Karens, and all pronounce their own name as care-in. Maybe it's a regional difference? Edited December 21, 2020 by Pawz4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 Just now, Pawz4me said: I can't either. Plus I know several Karen, and all pronounce their own name as care-in. Maybe it's a regional difference? I'm sure of that. Marry and Karen (and Harry and carry and Carrie) have the same short A sound followed by R. If Mary and marry are the same (both long A) where you are, then I'm sure all the similar words are also long A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Matryoshka said: Whoa. I've never heard Karen pronounced CARE-in. But in this case it isn't the syllabification- the R is definitely in the first syllable, but sounds, of course, nothing like CAR. As Amethyst says, it's like the A in Bat. But with an R after. Imagine that you are about to say “cat”. But don’t say the T. Now add rin ca - rin (Although to me, the R is in the first syllable, but maybe this will help those who can’t get the short A with the R) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquirrellyMama Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, cjzimmer1 said: CARE rhyming with AIR? I'm still trying to get the short a sound that I use in bat, cat, sat next to an R and I truly can't make that sound. Maybe we are making slightly different short a sounds? I can get the short a in there, but have never heard it pronounced like that. I've know a few Karens and it has always been Care-in. This thread is interesting and confusing all at the same time 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) I’d say it’s a regional thing but I know people who grew up in Philadelphia like me and said it the other way. And my husband (who did not grow up in Philly) says it different than his brother. (Referring to pronunciation of Karen) Edited December 21, 2020 by Amethyst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Wheres Toto said: They sound different to me too. Not, knot, knotty, rot, pot, hot, lot all sound the same. Naughty has the awe sound. Usually different for me too (depending a bit on where I’m living). I think that many people who have same sound have an “awe” sound in all those words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 7 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said: I agree. I also pronounce "awe" the same as the vowel in "on" Do you pronounce "caught" and "cot" the same? That's the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emba Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 On 12/19/2020 at 4:16 PM, barnwife said: I've lived most of my life in the Midwest (WI, specifically). Merry/marry/Mary are all said the same. They rhyme with carry. This is how I say them too. I’m in Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, barnwife said: Do you pronounce "caught" and "cot" the same? That's the difference. No, they're the same! 😂 The Khan explanation was helpful - that is different. Do one of those rhyme with khan for you?? Edited December 21, 2020 by Matryoshka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Matryoshka said: No, they're the same! 😂 Well, as I tell our kids, "everybody's got to be wrong sometime...and it's your turn." 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, barnwife said: Do you pronounce "caught" and "cot" the same? That's the difference. I pronounce those the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS Mom in NC Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, barnwife said: Do you pronounce "caught" and "cot" the same? That's the difference. I pronounce those exactly the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said: I pronounce those exactly the same. Despite evidence in this thread, I refuse to believe that there are people who think "caught" rhymes with "cot" and "hot." I just refuse! 😄 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matryoshka Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, barnwife said: Despite evidence in this thread, I refuse to believe that there are people who think "caught" rhymes with "cot" and "hot." I just refuse! 😄 Caught and cot don't just rhyme... they sound *exactly* the same... 🤣 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, Matryoshka said: Caught and cot don't just rhyme... they sound *exactly* the same... 🤣 ::sticks fingers in ears:: Lalalalala...I can't hear you! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happi duck Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 This thread is fascinating! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Pawz4me said: I can't either. Plus I know several Karens, and all pronounce their own name as care-in. Maybe it's a regional difference? We have that name in our family and pronounce it like care-in also. However, I would not say care has a long or short a sound. When I was studying phonics, it used to be represented by an upside-down v over the letter a, but now I can't find examples of that on the internet. Basically it differs from "cair-in" it isn't a combination of 2 vowel sounds (like foal vs. foil). It's more like the "e" sound in the old word "ere." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheres Toto Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Matryoshka said: No, they're the same! 😂 The Khan explanation was helpful - that is different. Do one of those rhyme with khan for you?? Cot has the same vowel sound as khan to me. Caught has the awe sound. Khan and con are identical. I don't pronounce Karen like care but I can't think of anything that matches. Nothing is quite right. It's almost like the first syllable of carousel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 When I first started learning Chinese, my tutor drilled me on the tones - how you 'sing' the syllables to produce different meaning - for weeks. My brain needed to be retrained to hear the tones before I could progress with the language. My husband's Mandarin learning was more based around producing useful phrases - perhaps in consequence, his tones were never very good. If your brain has never registered differences in sound, it will take more than a quick demonstration to pick them up. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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