SAHM worries

[hippymamato3]

16 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

But who is taking care of their children?

This is the part I could never handle - it had to be me. 

[Jaybee]

OP, is writing something you really love? If so, and if you aren't at a point where you feel you have to get a job of some kind right now, then something came to my mind. Your dd is four, and it's hard to focus right now. So how about you use some of your free time in the evenings now to read and take notes on all types of topics that might interest you. Not in a stressed, intense way, but just following your interests (which seem quite varied), and taking notes on things that you find fascinating or that you would like to follow up on more. That could pull double duty--give you some relaxed time, while also loading up your arsenal and feeding your mind for future writing projects. Then you can also focus on your daughter and meeting her needs. Along with spending time reading and doing projects with her, you could work on training her, bit by bit, to have little periods of time throughout the day (or after lunch for awhile) when she has to entertain herself while you do something you need to do. In that way, she will hopefully become interested in developing her own projects as she matures, which would eventually give you more time to write.

[MoyaPechal]

1 minute ago, hippymamato3 said:

This is the part I could never handle - it had to be me. 

Same. I had a traumatic birth involving a NICU stay and after that even if I had wanted to go back to work or been able to afford daycare, the thought of being away from her for most of the day was horrifying.

[Scarlett]

35 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

This is the part I could never handle - it had to be me. 

Me too.  And in the days I could see I was likely to be divorced.....none of my plans involved putting him in day care and going off to work.  I probably would have opened in home day care so I could keep being with my kid.  

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Exactly this. I am 49 and, at long last, did re-enter the workforce in November. But, though I am happy at my job (at least, so far), it really did become more of a beggars-can't-be-choosers situation. I have no benefits. My pay is not too impressive for someone with my skills. My hopety-hope is that, in time, bossman will see me as a valuable contributor and will raise my pay, but I still don't have much hope of job benefits so long as I stay in this tiny firm. 

I tend towards optimism and it really never occurred to 20-something me that being taken seriously and seen as a valuable employee would be actually really difficult at the half-century point. I did work part-time (very, very PT) over the past couple decades, operating the business side of dh's companies. I always assumed that reflected well on me - I wasn't sitting around eating bon-bons, right? - but it doesn't look good on a resume and when people learned that I homeschooled for 16+ years, many, it seems to me, wrote me off instantly as a little domestic wifey type. The person who finally hired me actually had a lot of respect for homeschooling, but many did not (I don't think). 

In my darker moments, I question whether the whole homeschooling experiment was worth it. My kids have turned out lovely (so far) and I'm proud of my young adults, but still...was it worth what I did? I really wonder that sometimes. 

Me too. I worry about it even more because my kids are not even adults yet.  

[Frances]

4 hours ago, MoyaPechal said:

I should clarify that I do have a degree, in economics and a "target language." I graduated during the recession and ended up working part-time at a school until I was finally able to have our daughter. So I never actually ended up using this degree and I think it would be nearly impossible for me to find a related job. All my experience is in education. Tutoring, ESL summer camp, working at that school.

I'll tell DH we need to look at our life insurance again but it's a solid amount. The idea of this happening just really scares me. That, along with having an only child, are the only two things that make me have doubts about homeschooling. 

Do you have any programming experience, even just through coursework? Any experience with large data sets, again even just from coursework? If you are at all interested in using your economics degree, these two things would be very beneficial, especially the programming. If you don’t have programming ability, some free or inexpensive online self paced classes might be worthwhile. There are all different kinds of analyst positions that would be suitable for someone with an economics degree, especially if you can program and have some experience with data. 
 

Is there no internet service where you live or do you just choose not to purchase it? I ask only because these types of jobs can often be done remotely, at least part of the time.

[Frances]

4 hours ago, MoyaPechal said:

I've looked at George Mason University, which is a local public college where my husband did his master's at night a few years ago. I have a bachelor's but I could do a career change degree for teaching or nursing, which I think about sometimes. But then I couldn't homeschool and our city's schools are not good.

You could potentially do nursing while homeschooling, as there are often weekend or evening shifts available. The difficulty would be doing nursing school while homeschooling, unless it was primarily an online or evening program with in person clinicals for which you could get a babysitter.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

 

I tend towards optimism and it really never occurred to 20-something me that being taken seriously and seen as a valuable employee would be actually really difficult at the half-century point. 

In my darker moments, I question whether the whole homeschooling experiment was worth it. My kids have turned out lovely (so far) and I'm proud of my young adults, but still...was it worth what I did? I really wonder that sometimes. 

My husband and I just turned 48. My husband still have to justify himself as a valuable employee to keep his job. When I was 20-something, I saw the senior engineers I was working with having midlife crisis. They were also worried about layoffs especially when many have two to four kids. 

The homeschooling choice was easier to justify for me since my kids would have likely drop out of public school. Besides I quit working after DS16 was born. 

A good friend thinks that her work stress was what caused her breast cancer. She stopped working since her diagnosis a few years ago. She asked if stress caused mine and my main stress is from homeschooling (bundled with parenting stress). 

1 hour ago, Quill said:

I see my young nieces having children but retaining their jobs; they have graduate degrees and specialized knowledge and quitting that just does not make sense to them. I think it's smart. There's much more security in it. 

My parents working life was different from mine, for one thing they have good pension plans. My younger nieces and nephews who are young adults are having a harder time staying employed in one job then our generation. 

[SoCal_Bear]

I do want to set your expectations and encourage you to lock in your premiums for life insurance as early as possible. Do not forget to get insurance for yourself as well. A lot of people think about only replacing the breadwinner and forget that there are costs if the SAH parent passes away. You just need term life insurance, and there are caluculators online that help you figure out the level of coverage you need. I do advise people don't count of employer life insurance because if you lose that job, you lost that coverage. Treat that as extra on top of your basic coverage. Be prepared for your DH's insurance premiums to be higher than whatever quick quotes you get online or verbally. I guarantee that his premium will be adjusted once you go through underwriting and they get your DH's family medical history and find out that his father and grandfather both passed away in their 40s. Good luck though. I really encourage you to do it as soon as your can though.

[Shoeless]

6 hours ago, Quill said:

Yeah, I know; none of us knows what was down that road not taken. It's not that I regret it, particularly; it's that I think the career-mom track could have been much better than I thought. I see my young nieces having children but retaining their jobs; they have graduate degrees and specialized knowledge and quitting that just does not make sense to them. I think it's smart. There's much more security in it. It's only in retrospect that I fully appreciate all the "what-ifs" I dodged. 

After watching my sisters juggle young children and the sort of jobs that required professional degrees, there's a big trade-off to that "financial security".  They are under immense stress. I really can't say that either of them are exactly happy with life, (this is true of pre-covid times, not just now). They have nice houses and nice cars, and their kids go to expensive enrichment and afterschool programs because the parents are still working and need the afterschool care. One kid goes to private school; the other kid used to go, but they are trying public school for awhile to save money (they'll be back in private before long, because my brother in law is a "keeping up with the Joneses" type).  They always have the latest and greatest tech gizmos. 

And everyone looks tense and exhausted all the time. They have a lawn service, cleaning service, and get take out several times a week because they are all too exhausted to do those things for themselves.  They drink a lot of alcohol "to relax", "to unwind", "because it's been a long day".  It's a rat race. They work long hours because that is what is expected "at their level", but then all the money goes to paying other people to run their homes and watch their kids. 

When Covid hit, one sister and one BIL got laid off. The other sister worked in higher education, and the college shut down leaving a whole lot of questions up in the air about whether she'd keep her job or not, (she did).  So much for the financial security.  

I sometimes envy their careers. They are in fields that interest them, and people respect what they do.  But gosh, the stress they are under is enormous and unrelenting.  And they've got precious little time leftover to spend with the kids. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

But who is taking care of their children?

A grandmother in one instance. Paid child care in others. I’m saying this: paid childcare is not so dreadful as I once thought, particularly quality care that is available if one’s income is good. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Arcadia said:

A good friend thinks that her work stress was what caused her breast cancer. She stopped working since her diagnosis a few years ago. She asked if stress caused mine and my main stress is from homeschooling (bundled with parenting stress). 

I don’t think stress caused my breast cancer. I think the crappy randomness of life caused it. I’m just grateful it was treatable, as I watch friends my age die of terminal cancers. 

I also think life is not meant to be free from pressure and stress. Of course there is a sweet spot beyond which it is sub-optimal, but some pressure and stress is good; it calls forth ingenuity and creativity. 

[DawnM]

Have you worked before?    Do you have a skillset that could earn a living should anything happen?

I stayed home for 10 years, but I knew my skillset could land me a job if I needed one.    I have now gone back to work full time and didn't have too difficult of a transition, although things have definitely changed in those years I was out.

If you don't have something, I would work on getting it.   What might. you be interested in doing?   With Covid, things that didn't used to be online are now online, so you may have more options.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, MissLemon said:

After watching my sisters juggle young children and the sort of jobs that required professional degrees, there's a big trade-off to that "financial security".  They are under immense stress. I really can't say that either of them are exactly happy with life, (this is true of pre-covid times, not just now). They have nice houses and nice cars, and their kids go to expensive enrichment and afterschool programs because the parents are still working and need the afterschool care. One kid goes to private school; the other kid used to go, but they are trying public school for awhile to save money (they'll be back in private before long, because my brother in law is a "keeping up with the Joneses" type).  They always have the latest and greatest tech gizmos. 

And everyone looks tense and exhausted all the time. They have a lawn service, cleaning service, and get take out several times a week because they are all too exhausted to do those things for themselves.  They drink a lot of alcohol "to relax", "to unwind", "because it's been a long day".  It's a rat race. They work long hours because that is what is expected "at their level", but then all the money goes to paying other people to run their homes and watch their kids. 

When Covid hit, one sister and one BIL got laid off. The other sister worked in higher education, and the college shut down leaving a whole lot of questions up in the air about whether she'd keep her job or not, (she did).  So much for the financial security.  

I sometimes envy their careers. They are in fields that interest them, and people respect what they do.  But gosh, the stress they are under is enormous and unrelenting.  And they've got precious little time leftover to spend with the kids. 

The description in your first paragraph - that is, making lots of money so you can have all the cool toys - is not my cup of tea, sure. There are ways, though, to combine a working life and a raising kids life, from my observation, and it doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is a stressed-out nutcase. I know there are people on these boards who do this; heck, even SWB did this. Professors, medical professionals, accountants and many kinds of small business owners can have both a fulfilling working life at a “real” job and raise their kids. 

As to your note about job security: that stinks for sure, but I suspect it is easier to find a new job if you just had a job two weeks ago, compared with haven’t had a job in twenty years. 

There likely isn’t any iron-clad, trouble-free “best way.” I just think for myself personally, I bought into a myth that staying home is best without any critical assessment of what that means when you’re 50. 

[MoyaPechal]

9 hours ago, Frances said:

Do you have any programming experience, even just through coursework? Any experience with large data sets, again even just from coursework? If you are at all interested in using your economics degree, these two things would be very beneficial, especially the programming. If you don’t have programming ability, some free or inexpensive online self paced classes might be worthwhile. There are all different kinds of analyst positions that would be suitable for someone with an economics degree, especially if you can program and have some experience with data. 
 

Is there no internet service where you live or do you just choose not to purchase it? I ask only because these types of jobs can often be done remotely, at least part of the time.

I have experience in a specific data analysis program and that's it. We're on a tight budget and using the mobile hotspot works out to be much cheaper than paying for separate internet service. The only laptop we have is my husband's work laptop and he barely ever uses it at home.

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

The description in your first paragraph - that is, making lots of money so you can have all the cool toys - is not my cup of tea, sure. There are ways, though, to combine a working life and a raising kids life, from my observation, and it doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is a stressed-out nutcase. I know there are people on these boards who do this; heck, even SWB did this. Professors, medical professionals, accountants and many kinds of small business owners can have both a fulfilling working life at a “real” job and raise their kids. 

As to your note about job security: that stinks for sure, but I suspect it is easier to find a new job if you just had a job two weeks ago, compared with haven’t had a job in twenty years. 

There likely isn’t any iron-clad, trouble-free “best way.” I just think for myself personally, I bought into a myth that staying home is best without any critical assessment of what that means when you’re 50. 

What @MissLemon described above is my sister’s life too.  And it has definitely caused her untold stress. 
 

I do agree there are ways to bring in some income and mostly have your kids with you but the fact is you did that Quill.  And then when your kids were almost grown you did a bit of training and got a job.  You did not get one of those big hig powered jobs like @MissLemontalked about, but is that what you wanted? When you were job searching I felt like I could detect a bit of nostalgia for the one you had at Big Law Firm when you were young.  I will never have that for sure.  But I easily got a part time job (actually it came to me when I wasn’t even looking) when ds was almost grown which is ow full time.  Initially it was not a job most people would have wanted, but I took it and what it has turned into I love but certainly it is not glamorous lol.  I can support myself simply if Dh were to die. I honestly would prefer to be home at least part time but in the middle of a pandemic I feel it is wise to take the money when we can get it in case Dh loses his job.  
 

I tried really hard to instill in my son that money will not make you happy.  His dad in the meantime was telling him, you have to work 40 hours you may as well make the most money you can.  I constantly tried to balance that with my belief of balance and moderation.  I told my son he needed to think about how much money he actually needed to live a life of dignity.  And I have encouraged my DIL who is working full time and doing school too to look for skills that will allow her to be with her children if they have any.  However, I get the sense they are falling into the trap of more more more.  I hope I am wrong and they do find some balance because I have seen that path lead to disaster many many times.
 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Scarlett

[MoyaPechal]

6 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I am 43.  Dh had just turned 50 in June.  
 

Of all the things to be concerned about, being able to pay the bills is not one of them.  
 

I have done this before.  Been a single mom I mean.  The situation is of course different on a number of levels but having done it before, I have no doubt about my ability to do it again 

 

SAHM is a description of what my situation is, not a title set in stone never to be changed.  I haven’t ever had a career, but I have worked before and can do so again.  I don’t need to have a career to pay the bills.   
 

When DH was laid off in 2013, I went out at got a job.  Two actually.  They weren’t great jobs and had he remained laid off much longer I would have had to start working smarter rather than harder.  But...they paid the bills.  
 

Life insurance.  We had what we could get.  It wasn’t enough to set us up for life...he wasn’t easily or affordably insureable before his ILD diagnosis.  But it’s enough.  
 

Cash is king.  Save an emergency fund, and make sure it’s set up in such a way that you don’t have to use it to pay off debts.  Better yet, pay off debt as quickly as possible so that there aren’t creditors to eat up funds in the first place.  Best yet, do both. 
 

Social Security Survivors benefits are a thing.  In my case they almost totally replace his income.  
 

Paying the bills is the easy part.  It’s everything else that’s awful.  

We have an emergency fund but it's slow going with rent being so high here and we had over $2k of emergency expenses this year. There's always something. Every single year.

[Scarlett]

6 hours ago, happysmileylady said:

I am 43.  Dh had just turned 50 in June.  
 

Of all the things to be concerned about, being able to pay the bills is not one of them.  
 

I have done this before.  Been a single mom I mean.  The situation is of course different on a number of levels but having done it before, I have no doubt about my ability to do it again 

 

SAHM is a description of what my situation is, not a title set in stone never to be changed.  I haven’t ever had a career, but I have worked before and can do so again.  I don’t need to have a career to pay the bills.   
 

When DH was laid off in 2013, I went out at got a job.  Two actually.  They weren’t great jobs and had he remained laid off much longer I would have had to start working smarter rather than harder.  But...they paid the bills.  
 

Life insurance.  We had what we could get.  It wasn’t enough to set us up for life...he wasn’t easily or affordably insureable before his ILD diagnosis.  But it’s enough.  
 

Cash is king.  Save an emergency fund, and make sure it’s set up in such a way that you don’t have to use it to pay off debts.  Better yet, pay off debt as quickly as possible so that there aren’t creditors to eat up funds in the first place.  Best yet, do both. 
 

Social Security Survivors benefits are a thing.  In my case they almost totally replace his income.  
 

Paying the bills is the easy part.  It’s everything else that’s awful.  

Thank you for this post.  I am so sorry for you and your kids but I do feel good knowing you can pay your bills.   That was my point earlier in this thread.  People worry themselves sick about financial things that really will work out.

[lmrich]

At the very least you could keep another kid. Open your home to a mom in need of some daycare. Maybe you could find a playmate for your daughter and earn a little income along the way. You will eventually need the funds to purchase a computer and internet to get any job online.

Start looking at homeschool hybrids in your area. You can offer an economics and foreign language courses. Depending where you live, you can charge $40 - $75 a month per student - 10 students per class, 2 classes it is possible to earn a $1,000 a month. This will also lead to building your confidence and you can add another class the next year or teach at another location, etc.. It will also lead to tutoring jobs. It also allows you time to homeschool your dd, especially if the hybrid offers classes for your dd. You will need a computer and internet for that type of job so you are available to answer questions, email homework etc.. 

Make a plan to slowly increase your income and it will happen. 

[Soror]

We have as max life insurance on dh and a policy on myself as well.

We don't have any debts.

We wanted that security if he was to ever lose his job or get laid off that we would have a house (and just having to pay for taxes and insurance is not much compared to a mortgage and much easier to make up). Now as dh gets older it is good peace in mind in case something happened to him.

I have thought a lot about the pros and cons of staying at home over the last several years. I have loved it. I love taking care of the house and children and homeschooling. I wish I would have worked out a way to keep my foot in the door somewhere although what I did before didn't have a lot of PT jobs worth doing and I was with the kids 24/7- always nursed and never used a bottle.  I was so tied up in the children that I didn't have a lot of spare time or energy when they were younger. It is hard to have it all. And I wouldn't want to change that time I had with them. Maybe I could have looked for a PT job sooner but with having several in a row I still would have been out of the work force 10 yrs or so. I started teaching online a little over 2 yrs ago, it is a good fit. Decent money, I can do it at home, and it fits the schedule well. I still don't know what I want to do when they finish schooling at home (whether that is graduating or the younger 2 decide they want to go PS when they are older). Dh talks about me just staying home as he'll be finished with his degree by then and making more. But I kind of like the idea of working some to sock extra away from retirement and be able to cash flow some big trips and things around the house before we both retire. We'll see.

[elegantlion]

14 hours ago, MoyaPechal said:

 

I'll tell DH we need to look at our life insurance again but it's a solid amount. The idea of this happening just really scares me. That, along with having an only child, are the only two things that make me have doubts about homeschooling. 

My financial situation was different than yours, so I won't speak on that. I will, however, speak to the only child situation. I homeschooled my ds from first grade through high school graduation. It was a great experience, our relationship is better for it, his education was better for it. There are perks to homeschooling one child -ways you can't necessarily be flexible in a larger family - tangents you can take for the day or semester. Ds and I are both introverts, so having a handful of friends and activities was enough for him. 

We always had a small budget and even though we are a tech heavy family, we didn't use a lot of tech in homeschooling until high school at least. 

[MoyaPechal]

28 minutes ago, lmrich said:

At the very least you could keep another kid. Open your home to a mom in need of some daycare. Maybe you could find a playmate for your daughter and earn a little income along the way. You will eventually need the funds to purchase a computer and internet to get any job online.

Start looking at homeschool hybrids in your area. You can offer an economics and foreign language courses. Depending where you live, you can charge $40 - $75 a month per student - 10 students per class, 2 classes it is possible to earn a $1,000 a month. This will also lead to building your confidence and you can add another class the next year or teach at another location, etc.. It will also lead to tutoring jobs. It also allows you time to homeschool your dd, especially if the hybrid offers classes for your dd. You will need a computer and internet for that type of job so you are available to answer questions, email homework etc.. 

Make a plan to slowly increase your income and it will happen. 

I can't watch another kid, unfortunately. Our lease forbids running an in-person business out of the apartment and specifically mentions childcare. 

Edit: The hybrids are a good idea. My friend teaches art at one. I'll have to start practicing the language somehow.

Edited December 18, 2020 by MoyaPechal

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I’ve worked at least part time.  My plan was always to work full time but it was apparent by the time oldest DS was 3 that he was not going to manage day care or after school programs due to ASD.  I work two nights a week right now. 
Watching DH get promoted in the company we work at while I’m definitely on the part time Mommy track bothers me. A lot. But there isn’t a choice; I was the one who went part time seven years ago and we can’t switch now.

We have enormous amounts of life insurance on both of us. If DH died I’d be financially set for a while.  But it isn’t death that concerns me, it’s disability.  There’s a lot of comfort to me in knowing that because I’ve stayed working, I could go full time in a job tomorrow and make nearly what DH is making. Maybe not a job I loved, but it’s possible and doable. 
I also have a couple degrees, but my work history isn’t in those fields.

[MoyaPechal]

13 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

If you end up in a situation where your spouse is no longer able to provide your income, you might end up moving anyway.  You might not be able to watch another kid *right now* but should you find yourself in my situation, you might be able to then.

 

(also, babysitting a single child for a few hours a day is rarely considered "running an in person business."  I suppose it could be considered such if a landlord wanted to be a butt nugget, but such a rule is generally made to cut down on car and people traffic and one person with one kid is unlikely to create the kind of traffic issue that causes concern.)

True, but we'd likely move to a studio if we stayed in the area and I think all the apartment complexes here forbid childcare. Of course, DH is 33 now so it's not like he's going to drop dead tomorrow, God willing. If he follows the same track as those relatives (they did smoke and he doesn't so hopefully that is a big factor in his favor), DD would be almost out of school. This isn't something I normally worry a ton about but we all had covid and I know it can cause heart damage so it's on my mind, especially since I might have it again. I'm getting tested today.

Edited December 18, 2020 by MoyaPechal
Forgot Friday was today

[MoyaPechal]

27 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

You seem rather determined to simply be worried, as you seem to have all the reasons why whatever ideas are mentioned simply won't work.

 

And if the purpose of this thread simply is to vent a worry, that's totally ok.  We all have those things that strike us as something worry about, even if we are taking the steps we are comfortable with in order to try to manage that worry.

 

So, I will simply say, I am living what you are worried about.  There are lots of steps that can be taken to make the financial concerns work out should you end up in the situation.  

I'm not sure where you're getting that because I've responded to several suggestions by saying they sound like good ideas and I'll look into them. Tutoring, co-op classes, etc. If it becomes obviously worth it, I'm willing to invest in a laptop. The fact is that without owning a house here, I can't provide childcare without violating my lease, which I'm not willing to do. That's not me refusing to listen to ideas.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

I'm not sure where you're getting that because I've responded to several suggestions by saying they sound like good ideas and I'll look into them. Tutoring, co-op classes, etc. If it becomes obviously worth it, I'm willing to invest in a laptop. The fact is that without owning a house here, I can't provide childcare without violating my lease, which I'm not willing to do. That's not me refusing to listen to ideas.

Do you live in a HCOL area?  Here it is absolutely less expensive to own a home.  I really can't believe how much some houses rent for here.  

[mom2scouts]

The most interesting thing for me is that the skills I've learned from raising children and homeschooling them are much greater than the skills I had when I was a young woman working in my field in a corporate office. I was young and had a recent degree, but I had very few of the organizational skills, people skills, writing skills, teaching skills, or research skills that I've developed over years of homeschooling. While I was hardworking and eager to learn years ago, I would make a much better employee now. I spent several years doing office work for a business we owned, but otherwise I've been out of the workforce for 30 years and few would appreciate what I've learned.

[Spryte]

OP, I think I know approximately where you live.  It is a HCOL area, for sure. 

Without going into the financial and work issues, you’ve got lots of help on that, I just want to say that homeschooling an only can be incredibly fun.  We have three kids, but a huge age span.  So middle child was the only kid at home from K-3.  Oldest was at college, youngest not born.  DS and I did All The Things.  There was freedom to explore every rabbit hole, do every craft and project.  We spent a year on ancient Egypt, and went on trips all over the place to see traveling exhibits, combining them with other sightseeing, theater, and museums.  It was formative for DS, and I still think it helped shape his perspective on the arts, education, and family. I think it was an experience that we both cherish.

As for the pricey area... having BTDT, I would just think about what you need, want, and whether you are getting out of it whatever makes it worthwhile.  If the trade offs are worth it, embrace it.  DH and I pondered this, and opted for a longer commute on days he goes in (though that’s only a half day once a week, if that, and not at all since Covid), but not everyone has that option. Maybe there is something that makes the area worth the trade off to you, or maybe there are alternative options.  
 

 

[skimomma]

I homeschooled an only.  She is graduating this year and I have no regrets. 

I had many of the same worries as you.  I was home 100% when my dd was born and I decided pretty early on that working at least part time to keep my foot in the door was important.  So I picked up a part-time job when dd was 3.  It was not in my field.  It was the type of job that I knew I could expand to full time if I ever needed to.  I did that until dd was 15.  At that point, she was mostly dual enrolled so I sought out full time employment.  I also picked up the occasional bartending job to get us through some rough patches.  I now work full time.

I am very VERY glad I maintained my emplyability.  Dh's field is feast or famine.  He is currently unemployed and this will be the second time we were blindsided with unemployment.  And because lots and LOTS of people who do what he does were also laid off, it could be a long time before he finds a new job.  We are 9 months and counting with no promising leads.  I do not have a high salary but I am now carrying the health insurance for the family.  Because his industry is so unstable, we have always maintained a hearty emergency fund. So while things are tight and there is stress, we are not in danger of losing our house or going hungry.  I also have the comfort of knowing that should something catastrophic happen to dh, my job plus life and/or disability insurance is enough to live comfortably until retirement. 

A previous poster mentioned data analytics.  This is what I do now.  It is not what my degree is in but the work was a good fit.  I work from home, even pre-pandemic, and there is always a demand for data analysts. There are part-time opportunities too.  It sounds like your eduction and experience would lend itself well to this type of work.  Almost any large company, hospital, and higher learning institution has an army of us.  I did not need special training and most job postings only require an unspecified 4-year degree.  With decent spreadsheet skills and the equivalent of an intro-to-programming knowledge base, I found myself more prepared than most to do this type of work. 

[Beth S]

OP has gotten a lot of great suggestions.
I quit work to raise our kids & just graduated the last one.

I think both dh & I worried about his job as sole-paychecker over the years.
However, our response was to
--SLOWLY shore up our finances
--have $250K *term* life insurance on each of us
--have a solid Will and Trust documents
--regularly discuss various scenarios if indeed our worst worries became reality.

I would sell the house, move in with my folks short-term, live off the life insurance until I came up with a good Next Step.
Friends and Family help.  Your kids contribute.  You live lean.

None of us knows how the future will unfold.
But please don't ruin your life NOW with anxiety (& rushing to get/keep a job now) for an event which is only a possibility.
Your child will benefit from their SAHM being present, creating sweet memories, and not stressed out.

Yes, there will always be surprise emergency expenses. 
Yes, cutting back and saving is a challenge . . . but working to build up an emergency fund can be a tangible step toward relieving the uncertainty.

Thank you for starting this thread--yet again, the Hive gives me a lot to think about! 
 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Beth S

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, Quill said:

A grandmother in one instance. Paid child care in others. I’m saying this: paid childcare is not so dreadful as I once thought, particularly quality care that is available if one’s income is good. 

Paid childcare can be a very nice component of one’s life, if you’re careful.

I’ve always worked part time, and we’ve always had some childcare. It was important to me to be the main caregiver for my kids, but we had some really lovely babysitters who adored the kids and a couple of very sweet play-based preschools that allowed my kids to spend time with other adults and make friends.

It’s definitely a tricky balance, but I recommend it 🙂 . I’ve mostly translated books and taught math for work, one of which I’m trained in, and one of which I’m not at all. But it does mean that my resume shows quite a lot of employment, as well as my degrees. I’m hopeful this will make it easier to get a job later if I need to... although my current plan is an education start up when I have time 🙂 .

Edited December 18, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[HS Mom in NC]

OP, if you haven't already, I'd looking to frugal living/minimalism/early retirement/debt free living resources for money saving ideas. Those crowds are serious about reducing unnecessary expenses.  Cost cutting is like losing weight, you have to be holistic about it if you want maximum effectiveness.  The change in mindset and practices advocated by them have increased savings and peace of mind for many people, me included.  There are always new ideas out there, so I try to keep up to date on things and incorporate new approaches. I'm tackling food costs with Cook Once, Eat All Week starting in the new year (eating up frozen bulk cooked food and pantry items first) to free up some grocery money for additional monthly savings.

This is a soapbox of mine, but I think anyone wanting to avoid an unplanned pregnancy should be using a minimum of 2 types of contraception every. single. time. unless they've been surgically sterilized.  Most people don't really grasp failure rates. Way too many pregnancies are unplanned and happen to people using 1 method correctly. And it's not unheard of for someone with a history of fertility issues to become pregnant at the worst possible time.  I have no idea if any of this applies to you, but I think sex ed and medical doctors are failing the general public by not teaching doubling up as a standard policy.  Especially for someone already under stress about stability, make as sure as humanly possible you don't add an unplanned conception to your life.

I would love to pay for an online economics class for my high schooler now or an in person one when COVID isn't a factor.  I think people are more likely to pay for a high school level class.

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, Quill said:

I don’t think stress caused my breast cancer. I think the crappy randomness of life caused it. I’m just grateful it was treatable, as I watch friends my age die of terminal cancers. 

I always had crappy health so I don’t think stress is the main/only factor. I do think my friend is slightly bitter. 
 

As for heart attacks, my uncle and my cousin died in their 40s of sudden heart attack. My uncle left behind his wife and five young adults. They have a family business and two paid for homes. My cousin left behind his wife and three kids (10 to 17). His wife is a college lecturer and they have four homes (one to stay and three to rent out). They all have extended family to fall back on.

My husband and I don’t have any relatives in the US. I have friends to fall back on for support. 
 

Your child is small and it’s such a morbid thought. However, it would be good to make sure you have joint bank accounts, your own credit card and all the relevant information on his insurance. Utilities are all in my name. 
 

For me, the most scary part was when we were here on h1/h4 visas. We would have to deal with immigration issues as well (leaving the country immediately since my husband is the h1 holder). Once we had our green card, it was less scary because we didn’t have to leave. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Arcadia
Autocorrect

[Melissa Louise]

8 hours ago, Quill said:

The description in your first paragraph - that is, making lots of money so you can have all the cool toys - is not my cup of tea, sure. There are ways, though, to combine a working life and a raising kids life, from my observation, and it doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is a stressed-out nutcase. I know there are people on these boards who do this; heck, even SWB did this. Professors, medical professionals, accountants and many kinds of small business owners can have both a fulfilling working life at a “real” job and raise their kids. 

As to your note about job security: that stinks for sure, but I suspect it is easier to find a new job if you just had a job two weeks ago, compared with haven’t had a job in twenty years. 

There likely isn’t any iron-clad, trouble-free “best way.” I just think for myself personally, I bought into a myth that staying home is best without any critical assessment of what that means when you’re 50. 

Yes, I recognise this. 

(50, working, but not secure in a way I may have been had I not taken a two decade break to raise children/homeschool. No noticeable difference in outcomes between my intensively mothered children, and the children of peers who used high quality childcare/school.)

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

3 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

OP, if you haven't already, I'd looking to frugal living/minimalism/early retirement/debt free living resources for money saving ideas. Those crowds are serious about reducing unnecessary expenses.  Cost cutting is like losing weight, you have to be holistic about it if you want maximum effectiveness.  The change in mindset and practices advocated by them have increased savings and peace of mind for many people, me included.  There are always new ideas out there, so I try to keep up to date on things and incorporate new approaches. I'm tackling food costs with Cook Once, Eat All Week starting in the new year (eating up frozen bulk cooked food and pantry items first) to free up some grocery money for additional monthly savings.

This is a soapbox of mine, but I think anyone wanting to avoid an unplanned pregnancy should be using a minimum of 2 types of contraception every. single. time. unless they've been surgically sterilized.  Most people don't really grasp failure rates. Way too many pregnancies are unplanned and happen to people using 1 method correctly. And it's not unheard of for someone with a history of fertility issues to become pregnant at the worst possible time.  I have no idea if any of this applies to you, but I think sex ed and medical doctors are failing the general public by not teaching doubling up as a standard policy.  Especially for someone already under stress about stability, make as sure as humanly possible you don't add an unplanned conception to your life.

I would love to pay for an online economics class for my high schooler now or an in person one when COVID isn't a factor.  I think people are more likely to pay for a high school level class.

I got pregnant with my third while on the pill and having been given a 0% chance of conceiving naturally(first two kids we used fertility treatments).  It happens.

We both got sterilized after that and I’m still on the pill. I was taking no chances.

[BlsdMama]

22 hours ago, MoyaPechal said:

We do have life insurance, but I'd still need to somehow find a job with zero full-time work experience.

Do you have enough insurance? 
 

Some does not equal enough. IMO, everyone also needs long term disability insurance to replace income. You also need a will. Remember, your children will also receive his social security. 

[Frances]

7 hours ago, skimomma said:

I homeschooled an only.  She is graduating this year and I have no regrets. 

I had many of the same worries as you.  I was home 100% when my dd was born and I decided pretty early on that working at least part time to keep my foot in the door was important.  

A previous poster mentioned data analytics.  This is what I do now.  It is not what my degree is in but the work was a good fit.  I work from home, even pre-pandemic, and there is always a demand for data analysts. There are part-time opportunities too.  It sounds like your eduction and experience would lend itself well to this type of work.  Almost any large company, hospital, and higher learning institution has an army of us.  I did not need special training and most job postings only require an unspecified 4-year degree.  With decent spreadsheet skills and the equivalent of an intro-to-programming knowledge base, I found myself more prepared than most to do this type of work. 

I agree. To the OP, I think you are underestimating the value of your economics degree. Data analytics is a wide open field with the opportunity to work in a wide variety of settings and subject areas, often with a great deal of flexibility. When I was in your position as a SAHM with one child and a few years out from my MS, I turned down adjunct college teaching gigs (for which I hadn’t even applied) in favor of pursuing part-time analyst work because ultimately I wanted something that would be well compensated with full benefits, whether that was due to changing life circumstances or after my child was grown and gone. While I knew I enjoyed teaching and tutoring due to experiences during grad school and could also have tutored or taught homeschool classes, I knew that type of part-time work was often under-paid without benefits. As it turned out, I transitioned to full time work earlier than expected due to changes in my husband’s career, but then went back and forth between part and full time until my son was grown and gone. Now I work full-time, although still have flexibility.
 

And contrary to what some have posted, it was never about having a new car or the latest gadgets or a big house. We still own the first house we bought, have always driven used cars and usually owned only one vehicle at a time, have never had cable, and I don’t even own a smart phone by choice. But it’s very nice to know that barring some huge catastrophic event, we are set for retirement. There were no worries about paying for our son’s college education. It’s nice to be able to help out our parents and nieces when needed and donate to charities we favor. And after many, many years of living very frugally due to a significant chunk of our adult lives being devoted to pursuing advanced degrees, it’s nice to not really worry about finances, to have no debt and a hefty emergency fund, and to be able to afford experiences like traveling further afield and pursuing hobbies.

My husband and I were fortunate that our careers afforded us enough flexibility that we were able to make all of it work while still homeschooling. Our son was never in daycare, but he did attend preschool and we had occasional babysitters or swaps with other families. It was definitely a partnership, especially the older our son got. Compared to some of the stories I hear on this board, my husband was incredibly involved with our son from day one. And our son was still involved with all of the outside activities, homeschool classes, college classes, etc. as those who didn’t have working moms. We were also lucky that none of our jobs since our son was born really involve commuting. They’ve been walking distance and/or done from home.

If you are not interested in analytic work or favor something that is more just to make extra money and get in the workforce and are not concerned about benefits or a long term career, then the suggestions about teaching and tutoring might be a better fit.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Frances

[Shoeless]

11 hours ago, Quill said:

The description in your first paragraph - that is, making lots of money so you can have all the cool toys - is not my cup of tea, sure. There are ways, though, to combine a working life and a raising kids life, from my observation, and it doesn’t necessarily mean everyone is a stressed-out nutcase. I know there are people on these boards who do this; heck, even SWB did this. Professors, medical professionals, accountants and many kinds of small business owners can have both a fulfilling working life at a “real” job and raise their kids. 

As to your note about job security: that stinks for sure, but I suspect it is easier to find a new job if you just had a job two weeks ago, compared with haven’t had a job in twenty years. 

There likely isn’t any iron-clad, trouble-free “best way.” I just think for myself personally, I bought into a myth that staying home is best without any critical assessment of what that means when you’re 50. 

Without dismissing your feelings about re-entering the workforce at 50, I think you may be buying into the other myth that working outside the home is  best, without any assessment of what *that* entails, day in and day out.  I kind of wish I hadn't said anything about the fancy house and tech gadgets, because that's getting all the focus and not the stress and exhaustion part. 

I was a working mom until my son was 5.  He was in good quality, inexpensive daycare until he was 18 months old, and then I moved to a job with more "flexible" hours, which enabled me to drop daycare. "Inexpensive" is relative in daycare. It was cheap compared to what others paid, but it still took half my check. My job with "flexible" hours meant I worked 3 12 hour overnight shifts at the veterinary ER. It was exhausting, but easier than working days, because I no longer had to worry about calling out of work if my son got sick, trying to schedule medical appointments in a very narrow window during the week, being late for daycare pickups or having to lean heavily on my coworkers to pick up my slack when it's 4:55pm and a sick patient came in.  That's the tricky part of working in a lot of health-care fields. You can't just leave when the clock says your shift is over. You are there until the last patient leaves. 

Yes, there are many women that both work and raise kids, but that doesn't mean it's not incredibly hard to keep all those balls in the air.  

 

 

[Not_a_Number]

16 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Without dismissing your feelings about re-entering the workforce at 50, I think you may be buying into the other myth that working outside the home is  best, without any assessment of what *that* entails, day in and day out.  I kind of wish I hadn't said anything about the fancy house and tech gadgets, because that's getting all the focus and not the stress and exhaustion part. 

But I think it really does depend on WHAT you do as your work. I find my work fulfilling and not incredibly stressful, and my specific jobs actually combine well with homeschooling (since they have to do with things I might want to teach the kids.) I would be sorry not to have ANY work while I stayed at home. 

There are obviously jobs that are no fun to do at the same time as parenting. And there are jobs that genuinely require having full-time caregivers for one's kids, which wasn't something I was interested in. 

I'm never all that interested in saying something is "best" or "not best." I'm not going to argue that working part-time while homeschooling is best. I just know that it has worked well for our specific family. 

[Scarlett]

47 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But I think it really does depend on WHAT you do as your work. I find my work fulfilling and not incredibly stressful, and my specific jobs actually combine well with homeschooling (since they have to do with things I might want to teach the kids.) I would be sorry not to have ANY work while I stayed at home. 

There are obviously jobs that are no fun to do at the same time as parenting. And there are jobs that genuinely require having full-time caregivers for one's kids, which wasn't something I was interested in. 

I'm never all that interested in saying something is "best" or "not best." I'm not going to argue that working part-time while homeschooling is best. I just know that it has worked well for our specific family. 

Society as a whole DOES say what is best.  Get a career,  make a lot of money, prepare for retirement and if you have kids put them in a quality daycare.  That is the overwhelming message ‘out there’.  So I try as often as I can to be the voice that says, ‘hey, being with your kids and learning how to live on less is a really really possible option’. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Scarlett

[Shoeless]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

But I think it really does depend on WHAT you do as your work. I find my work fulfilling and not incredibly stressful, and my specific jobs actually combine well with homeschooling (since they have to do with things I might want to teach the kids.) I would be sorry not to have ANY work while I stayed at home. 

There are obviously jobs that are no fun to do at the same time as parenting. And there are jobs that genuinely require having full-time caregivers for one's kids, which wasn't something I was interested in. 

I'm never all that interested in saying something is "best" or "not best." I'm not going to argue that working part-time while homeschooling is best. I just know that it has worked well for our specific family. 

Yes, some jobs are more adaptable to part time work or homeschooling.  But not everyone is trained in those sorts of jobs, and many of those jobs were not available 10-20 years ago when Quill was homeschooling. 

You have a job that can be done at home, via the internet. That's a fairly recent option for employment.  Up until the pandemic, a lot of employers were opposed to having employees work from home, even though everyone knew there was really no reason they could not be done at home.  

My job cannot be done at home or via the internet.  Maybe I should have chosen something different, or stayed in programming, even though I found it painfully dull.  I'd probably be employed, but not very happy. 

I also don't want to argue that one path or another is "best", because we're not all on the same path.  Working nights at the ER was the right choice for that moment in my life. Quitting work to homeschool these last 7 years is the right choice for this part of my life. I'll probably go back to clinic work once kiddo is high school age.

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Society as a whole DOES say what is best.  Get a career,  are a lot of money, prepare for retirement and if you have kids put them in a quality daycare.  That is the overwhelming message ‘out there’.  So I try as often as I can to be the voice that says, ‘hey, being with your kids and learning how to live on less is a really really possible option’. 

Oh, I dunno, I think society tells you that you need to do EVERYTHING, at least if you're a woman. You need to be there for every one of your children's milestones, but you're also letting feminism down if you don't have a career. You need to bake cookies and also be the breadwinner. You need to keep a spotless house without hiring a cleaning lady but you also need to be a hotshot at work. 

I think one does a lot better in this life if one realizes one can't have one's cake and eat it, too 😉 . I did have to hire babysitters and send my kids to preschool to do my work. And don't get me started on the state of my house 😉 . But I think my life is a good, middle of the road example of the things one actually CAN have if you want to stay part of the working world but also want to spend a lot of time with one's children. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Frances]

9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Society as a whole DOES say what is best.  Get a career,  are a lot of money, prepare for retirement and if you have kids put them in a quality daycare.  That is the overwhelming message ‘out there’.  So I try as often as I can to be the voice that says, ‘hey, being with your kids and learning how to live on less is a really really possible option’. 

I’m not sure I agree with this. At work and in my neighborhood I’m surrounded by well-educated, primarily middle or upper middle people. I would say the minority have both parents working with kids in daycare. Most people I know have taken less pay and hours, less career advancement, traded off with spouses, lived on less, etc. etc. in order to not have their children in full time daycare. I know it’s not always an option for everyone, but at least in my experience, many people do choose it. Even before the pandemic, the percentage of women in the workforce was declining in the US. Plus, in my cohort, the men are generally very involved with child rearing, so it’s not just the women making sacrifices.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Frances

[Shoeless]

3 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Society as a whole DOES say what is best.  Get a career,  are a lot of money, prepare for retirement and if you have kids put them in a quality daycare.  That is the overwhelming message ‘out there’.  So I try as often as I can to be the voice that says, ‘hey, being with your kids and learning how to live on less is a really really possible option’. 

I agree with you, Scarlett. There is a very strong message of "If you just try a little harder and make better choices, you can have it all and never, ever have to make any trade offs, ever!"

For the years I worked outside of the home, I didn't find that to be true. Either the job isn't getting 100% or the kids aren't getting 100% or the husband isn't getting 100% or you aren't getting 100%. 

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, Frances said:

I’m not sure I agree with this. At work and in my neighborhood I’m surrounded by well-educated, primarily middle or upper middle people. I would say the minority have both parents working with kids in daycare. Most people I know have taken less pay and hours, less career advancement, traded off with spouses, lived on less, etc. etc. in order to not have their children in full time daycare. I know it’s not always an option for everyone, but at least in my experience, many people do choose it. Even before the pandemic, the percentage of women in the workforce was declining in the US.

Yes, but the cost down the road is less financial security later in life, which is what Quill has noticed. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, MissLemon said:

Yes, but the cost down the road is less financial security later in life, which is what Quill has noticed. 

But there's a difference between quitting the working world entirely and still having a foot in it. At least... I really hope there is. I know I've chosen a less ambitious path than I would have if I hadn't had kids, and it does rankle sometimes, but I do hope my work counts for something. 

[Frances]

Just now, MissLemon said:

Yes, but the cost down the road is less financial security later in life, which is what Quill has noticed. 

One spouse working full-time and one working part-time or both working some version of part-time while kids are home and then transitioning to full or almost full time is what I was talking about. Not one spouse (usually the husband) working full time and the other not working at all until the kids are gone. My husband and I are living proof it can work, as are many of our friends and coworkers. But then again, we’ve always lived frugally, even now that we have money. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Frances said:

One spouse working full-time and one working part-time or both working some version of part-time while kids are home and then transitioning to full or almost full time is what I was talking about. Not one spouse (usually the husband) working full time and the other not working at all until the kids are gone. My husband and I are living proof it can work, as are many of our friends and coworkers. But then again, we’ve always lived frugally, even now that we have money. 

Yeah, that's what we're doing over here. It was easier before the pandemic, when we could pay for some amount of childcare, but we're managing. 

I work about 10-15 hours a week normally. Some of the hours are at set, non-negotiable times, but they are either in the evening or involve my kids (homeschooling classes.) The rest are flexible. It works well. 

I won't pretend it doesn't involve ANY extra stress, but it's a good balance overall for us. And the money doesn't hurt. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

Without dismissing your feelings about re-entering the workforce at 50, I think you may be buying into the other myth that working outside the home is  best, without any assessment of what *that* entails, day in and day out.  I kind of wish I hadn't said anything about the fancy house and tech gadgets, because that's getting all the focus and not the stress and exhaustion part. 

I was a working mom until my son was 5.  He was in good quality, inexpensive daycare until he was 18 months old, and then I moved to a job with more "flexible" hours, which enabled me to drop daycare. "Inexpensive" is relative in daycare. It was cheap compared to what others paid, but it still took half my check. My job with "flexible" hours meant I worked 3 12 hour overnight shifts at the veterinary ER. It was exhausting, but easier than working days, because I no longer had to worry about calling out of work if my son got sick, trying to schedule medical appointments in a very narrow window during the week, being late for daycare pickups or having to lean heavily on my coworkers to pick up my slack when it's 4:55pm and a sick patient came in.  That's the tricky part of working in a lot of health-care fields. You can't just leave when the clock says your shift is over. You are there until the last patient leaves. 

Yes, there are many women that both work and raise kids, but that doesn't mean it's not incredibly hard to keep all those balls in the air.  

 

 

I’m not prescribing what is better or best, regardless of my own experiences. What I’m saying is this: now with the benefit hindsight provides, I see lots of parents who maintained meaningful work while raising kids and, in some cases, even while homeschooling. In a few cases, they did extraordinary things, (sounds like that was true for you) like leave for work at 3:30am, so they could be home much earlier than otherwise. In some cases, they moved to be near parents, so the grandparents could both be involved, and could offer loving help. In some cases, they reduced their hours, though still stayed relevant, or they arranged their own off-shoot. 

I certainly do know my life raising kids was much easier and less grueling than it may have been had I been trying to keep the balls in the air for a career as well. Clearly, I couldn’t have done a lot of the things I have done, like be on the board at a homeschool co-op or make a loaf of cinnamon swirl bread so good you could cry. (😄) I think I did some things for the wrong reasons, though, and I do think, with a magic wand and a time machine, I would make some different choices. 

 

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Frances said:

I’m not sure I agree with this. At work and in my neighborhood I’m surrounded by well-educated, primarily middle or upper middle people. I would say the minority have both parents working with kids in daycare. Most people I know have taken less pay and hours, less career advancement, traded off with spouses, lived on less, etc. etc. in order to not have their children in full time daycare. I know it’s not always an option for everyone, but at least in my experience, many people do choose it. Even before the pandemic, the percentage of women in the workforce was declining in the US. Plus, in my cohort, the men are generally very involved with child rearing, so it’s not just the women making sacrifices.

Well I hope you are right that things are changing.