SAHM worries

[cintinative]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m sorry that was your experience of your mom. My mother almost never WOH, but I still felt she put other things ahead of us. For example, she had boundless energy and input for the church. She used her prodigious creative skills to make costumes for VBS and Christmas plays at church; she spent hours calling people from church who needed an ear. But she didn’t have an ear for me when I was a severely depressed teen. 

I grew up thinking her church was way more important than any of us. So it isn’t necessarily paid work that creates this illusion. 

Agreed. And I am sorry that you went through this also.  I was definitely the depressed teen. There was definitely a "slave to financial security" element to it with my mom, but that's a much longer story. My dh's father was like you describe with his church involvement as well. It was hard for my dh. Some boys in church got more of his father's time than he did. 

[Wheres Toto]

15 hours ago, Quill said:

For me, it wasn't that I never worked at all, in two decades. I *thought* I was doing the smart thing. I went to college, I served on the board at co-op, and I operated dh's businesses for years, learning QuickBooks entirely on my own. I *thought* what I was doing was the smart way because I *thought* that if/when I needed/wanted to return to FT work, I would not be twenty-years rusty and with no idea what computer programs were used, no idea how to do any of that stuff, no education since the eighties. This is what I *thought* I was doing. I didn't realize that's not how I would be perceived. Very naive of me, I'm sure, but it never occurred to me that people would see dates of "199X" on my resume and instantly deem me out of the loop. 

I think, if asked by a younger mom or if any of my kids asked, I would now say it is better for both parents to stay relevantly connected to their profession throughout raising kids. 

I remember a bunch of years ago, I read in Rick Edelman's book about finances an account of how one should assess whether having one parent stay at home should be evaluated. I remember how I bristled at the very notion! But I realize now in retrospect what good advice that was, if only I had listened to it. 

Just curious about this - did you put your work for your husband's company on your resume?   When I went back, I did put down work that I did for my husband's business on my resume.  It made my 9-10 year gap more like a 5 or 6 year gap, with the work I did for him being more recent.    I did have to have his business partner provide a reference, but my other reference was from a job I had in the late 90's/early 2000's.  

My mother was a single mom and worked full time at jobs she could never take off throughout my entire childhood.    We had to be super sick before she could take off work to stay home with us so we went to school sick (and I wound up hospitalized twice for things that should have been addressed quicker), no vacations, and definitely no extra money. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m sorry that was your experience of your mom. My mother almost never WOH, but I still felt she put other things ahead of us. For example, she had boundless energy and input for the church. She used her prodigious creative skills to make costumes for VBS and Christmas plays at church; she spent hours calling people from church who needed an ear. But she didn’t have an ear for me when I was a severely depressed teen. 

I grew up thinking her church was way more important than any of us. So it isn’t necessarily paid work that creates this illusion. 

Some people are just not good at sacrificing for their kids 😕 . My mom was like this with my sister -- she stayed at home and didn't work, but she spent most of the day either reading, eating candy, or keeping the place spotlessly clean. The "spotlessly clean" sounds nice, and I did grow up with an expectation of not living in a pigsty, but it wasn't for us -- she found it stressful to have the place messy, and we had lots of fights about it. 

She didn't even cook for her kids -- she was willing to cook for a husband, but when I was a teen and my sister was small, her husband didn't come home for dinner, so then she didn't bother cooking. She also didn't spend time teaching us to cook, or teaching us to do anything else that might come in handy when we're adults (do the laundry; take care of the finances; do the shopping; do our homework; even clean, since she did it herself and never had any chores for the kids.) 

Anyway, I agree with you, Quill -- mothers can wind up not putting their children first whether they work out of the home or not. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[BlsdMama]

I haven't read all the replies, I'll just say this, if it helps GREAT, if it doesn't, discard.  We tend to like to be anxious, play with the what if.  It feels like we're doing something to offset risk, to play out scenarios in our minds and plan around them, but it isn't really that useful.  We ramp ourselves up.

What if, freakishly, your husband dies at 40?  What if, freakishly, he is permanently disabled at 45?
It is one thing to say, "This risk is real, therefore, we will make it a priority to purchase insurance." It is another thing ENTIRELY, to say, "I fear, therefore despite recognizing my fears are NOT the likely outcome, I will make whole lifestyle changes that impact my family and myself, and potentially not for the best ideal scenario."

Four years ago, before I was sick, I attempted to juggle VERY part time work and classes while homeschooling.  You are a finite resource.  Your time, your energy, your effort, these things are finite.  Want to take a class? Go for it.  I can tell you full time school (even online) is taxing in the longterm as is having a part time job.  Even ten hours a week has drive time and impact in the form of distraction and it REALLY wasn't value added.

And I say this from the worst case scenario - I *did* get sick at 40 - terminal diagnosis and long term disability.  I *did* find out I wasn't eligible for disability or Medicare because I didn't have adequate work credits within the past five years.  We had to do all the things - make the wills, make the plans.  And all this and you know what I regret? Working.  I regret it because it wasn't just ten hours.  It sucked because it took more than time.  I invested in it with no returns. 

That said, I did stick with school.  Getting my Bachelors was a bucket list thing for me and I graduate this month. 😉 I did change from full time to part time because it was such a time and mind hog and I wanted to give more of myself to my family.  

It's a very individual choice but I wouldn't sacrifice for the purpose of what if.  If you feel unsafe, reevaluate the amount of insurance to a point that you can say, "I have a five year plan for if DH dies."

My husband has enough life insurance that it would allow the raising of the kids, the pay off the house, etc.  It's expensive.  It's comforting.  

If I was capable? I would need it to support me while I finished a degree and got a couple years of work under my belt and private school tuition for at least the youngest four and pay off the house.  That's my comfort level.  But would I work part time in order to offset the possibility of death? Nope.  Not knowing what I know right now.

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

I haven't read all the replies, I'll just say this, if it helps GREAT, if it doesn't, discard.  We tend to like to be anxious, play with the what if.  It feels like we're doing something to offset risk, to play out scenarios in our minds and plan around them, but it isn't really that useful.  We ramp ourselves up.

What if, freakishly, your husband dies at 40?  What if, freakishly, he is permanently disabled at 45?
It is one thing to say, "This risk is real, therefore, we will make it a priority to purchase insurance." It is another thing ENTIRELY, to say, "I fear, therefore despite recognizing my fears are NOT the likely outcome, I will make whole lifestyle changes that impact my family and myself, and potentially not for the best ideal scenario."

Four years ago, before I was sick, I attempted to juggle VERY part time work and classes while homeschooling.  You are a finite resource.  Your time, your energy, your effort, these things are finite.  Want to take a class? Go for it.  I can tell you full time school (even online) is taxing in the longterm as is having a part time job.  Even ten hours a week has drive time and impact in the form of distraction and it REALLY wasn't value added.

And I say this from the worst case scenario - I *did* get sick at 40 - terminal diagnosis and long term disability.  I *did* find out I wasn't eligible for disability or Medicare because I didn't have adequate work credits within the past five years.  We had to do all the things - make the wills, make the plans.  And all this and you know what I regret? Working.  I regret it because it wasn't just ten hours.  It sucked because it took more than time.  I invested in it with no returns. 

That said, I did stick with school.  Getting my Bachelors was a bucket list thing for me and I graduate this month. 😉 I did change from full time to part time because it was such a time and mind hog and I wanted to give more of myself to my family.  

It's a very individual choice but I wouldn't sacrifice for the purpose of what if.  If you feel unsafe, reevaluate the amount of insurance to a point that you can say, "I have a five year plan for if DH dies."

My husband has enough life insurance that it would allow the raising of the kids, the pay off the house, etc.  It's expensive.  It's comforting.  

If I was capable? I would need it to support me while I finished a degree and got a couple years of work under my belt and private school tuition for at least the youngest four and pay off the house.  That's my comfort level.  But would I work part time in order to offset the possibility of death? Nope.  Not knowing what I know right now.

Thank you.  (((Hugs))) You and @happysmileylady have made important contributions to this thread and the topic in general.

[kiwik]

On 12/18/2020 at 12:45 PM, GoodGrief3 said:

I think the biggest risk for most women is divorce. No help from life insurance at that point, and nobody is holding a go fund me for the family in that circumstance.

It's a worry, for sure. I left nursing after working for nine years to stay home. I don't have any regrets but there is a lot that could have gone wrong. It's certainly benefited my children to have me here though. The regrets I do have are about the years my little ones went to part time child care.

There are many risks in life though. I think you have to weigh the odds and prepare for unfavorable outcomes the best you can. Active volunteering with the community does open up opportunities. Continue to learn and pursue interests. Hope for the best and have a plan for the worst knowing that some of the details will need to be worked out at that time.

Editing to add that my oldest two have graduated from college now and my youngest graduates high school in the next couple years. This is from the perspective of an old mom. I have a part time, not terribly profitable photography business at this point that could keep me busier if I wanted. I've considered substitute teaching as a flexible income stream. I have found that my young adult kids have needed a lot of my time, so I hesitate to tie myself down too much with full time commitments.

This.  I would never recommend someone was a SAHM. Even if it were only a few hours a week I would recommend working outside the home.  It is so much easier to find work when you are already working.  And so much easier to increase hours at an existing job than convince someone to take a chance on you when you have kids and are by yourself.  Even when married it is hard to convince employers you will be reliable once you have kids.

[Scarlett]

57 minutes ago, kiwik said:

This.  I would never recommend someone was a SAHM. Even if it were only a few hours a week I would recommend working outside the home.  It is so much easier to find work when you are already working.  And so much easier to increase hours at an existing job than convince someone to take a chance on you when you have kids and are by yourself.  Even when married it is hard to convince employers you will be reliable once you have kids.

Everyone has to do what they feel is best, but again this is sacrificing your time and energy now, for the things you know need you (your children) for a outcome that is just a potential.  

I was in that situation.  I had not worked for 10 years when I was put in the position of having to divorce my now XH.  I still don't regret not working for those 10 years. 

[prairiewindmomma]

I agree, kiwik and goodgrief3. I have several friends who were SAHMs whose husbands filed for divorce about 20 years into marriage. Several of them are being left with no real assets (heavily mortgaged houses), no income stream (ex is being a butt about paying alimony and child support), and no benefits. They have no timely social security credits, no 401k, nothing. They have ex’s health insurance for a brief period of time, presuming he stays employed, but otherwise nothing.

The death of a spouse is horribly tragic, but divorce is more likely—and more likely devastating. My friends were all blindsided.

 

[Scarlett]

Just now, prairiewindmomma said:

I agree, kiwik and goodgrief3. I have several friends who were SAHMs whose husbands filed for divorce about 20 years into marriage. Several of them are being left with no real assets (heavily mortgaged houses), no income stream (ex is being a butt about paying alimony and child support), and no benefits. They have no timely social security credits, no 401k, nothing. They have ex’s health insurance for a brief period of time, presuming he stays employed, but otherwise nothing.

The death of a spouse is horribly tragic, but divorce is more likely—and more likely devastating. My friends were all blindsided.

 

Mine was 26 years into the marriage.  Things just work out it seems.  

[Not_a_Number]

8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Everyone has to do what they feel is best, but again this is sacrificing your time and energy now, for the things you know need you (your children) for a outcome that is just a potential.  

I was in that situation.  I had not worked for 10 years when I was put in the position of having to divorce my now XH.  I still don't regret not working for those 10 years. 

I don’t ever feel like work is a sacrifice, to be honest. I like having things to think about other than household responsibilities. It keeps me happier.

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don’t ever feel like work is a sacrifice, to be honest. I like having things to think about other than household responsibilities. It keeps me happier.

And I think that is  a separate part of it.  But doing it because you so fear things that very well will never happen is probably not the best use of energy. 

[Arcadia]

35 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The death of a spouse is horribly tragic, but divorce is more likely—and more likely devastating. My friends were all blindsided.

 

In my extended family case, they were divorce by abandonment. Luckily all the ladies have family support to tide them through messy divorce proceedings.

When it comes to death, joint assets aren’t frozen so that helps financially.

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Mine was 26 years into the marriage.  Things just work out it seems.  

You have family support (emotionally and/or financially) at time of divorce which helps substantially.

[BlsdMama]

26 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don’t ever feel like work is a sacrifice, to be honest. I like having things to think about other than household responsibilities. It keeps me happier.

It was a huge sacrifice for me.  When I am at home and focused on family and home, I pour my energy and time and creativity into here.  When I am giving that away to someone or somewhere else, there is less here.

My mom just retired and it's just hit her that everything she gave there, not that it wasn't appreciated, but she was easily replaced.

I look at what I've done over the years - given my kids a top notch education, poured my energy into building things, making things, creating things, growing things, and I KNOW it contributed to how I developed and who I am as a person.  And these things happened because I had the free time and energy and margin to think about stuff - to be proactive rather than reactive. 

The mother who pours her energy into the home, who HAS that energy and time to pour into the home, does not waste it.  If I had worked 10-20 hours each week, spent time on the commute, did the work that must be done on evenings and weekends? Would I have had the time to read aloud as much as I did, to discuss, to expolore? Would we have spent the hours outside together? The really important question - would we have gotten goats? 😉 Would I have encouraged curiosity and experimentation because all of that meant a lot of time and a lot of clean up?  Some people HAVE to work.  But some think they have to and they're really working for lifestyle and I'm not saying any mother should feel guilty for having to work - EVER.  But neither do I pretend like I could have lived the life I lived and worked part time.  And, now, at a place where I realize time is shockingly finite with my family? I'm so glad they got the best of me instead of what was leftover from my tiredness of "pouring in" to another place and for another person who wasn't family.  Because I did work - both at the beginning of our marriage full time and part time just not that many years ago, and frankly, having done both, you don't get to do both without some cost somewhere.  All choices have a cost and all choices carry risk.  My mother worked.  It carried the risk of not having the time and energy to pour in at home at a certain level.  That risk was true and that cost was real.  And I benefited as well  - private school, nice clothes, and not worrying about food or healthcare.  But I think we need to be honest in that no one can do all the things and do all the things well.  A person is primarily successful in one arena, hence the saying, "a jack of all trades and a master of none."  Either is a valid choice, but either comes with cost and risk.

[Scarlett]

47 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

 

"Work" was always a sacrifice to me.  A few years ago, I was having lunch with a neighbor mom as our kids played in the backyard.  In the course of our discussion, I mentioned dealing with school (student teaching) and working full time and being a single parent to DD24.  And she stopped and looked at me all shocked "wait, you have a degree?"  (something not necessarily average for the area)  I told her I did, in elementary ed.  She said "but, if you have a degree, why aren't you working?"

 

I responded with....

 

"Because I don't have to and I don't want to."  

 

 

The bolded just made me laugh. So she thought that was the only reason you weren't working because you didn't have a degree?  I mean she does realize that people work all of the time WITHOUT degrees?  Or did she just think it was a waste that you weren't working since you have a degree?  

[GoodGrief3]

18 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

It was a huge sacrifice for me.  When I am at home and focused on family and home, I pour my energy and time and creativity into here.  When I am giving that away to someone or somewhere else, there is less here.

 

Thanks for sharing your insights.

There's not much I regret in life, per se, because it is what it is, and it all brought me here. But I do go back and forth about whether I would be employed in nursing again in my children's early years if I got a do-over. It's never about the "work". Work is good for everyone. It's employment that can be problematic. I would have enjoyed continuing in some form of nursing if I could have done it in a manner that fit in with raising my children in the way I liked. Never did figure that part out, though, as I've said before, plenty of people seem to be successful at it.

My family did benefit from my nursing in that I was definitely able to work out better healthcare options for them from my contacts, especially in the early years. I know less people now that I've been out so long, but I still understand the system.

Even now, with a job which is entirely controlled by me, I still find the commitments interfere with the uncertainties of family life.

[Scarlett]

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think, in that area, the degree was viewed as the golden ticket.  Get the degree and that means you can get the job that pays enough to get on with real success.  I don’t think that the idea that there is choice involved in all the steps is something she ever considered.  
 

(she was in school part time, working full time at the time, because she wanted “a better life” for her kids. ).  

And I guess that is what it boils down to....what a person's definition of 'better' or successful is.

I remember my now XH, when he realized I was going to divorce him, said, 'do you think you will find someone more successful than me?'  I just looked at him and said, 'define success.'  He did not have a word to say to that.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

Just curious about this - did you put your work for your husband's company on your resume?   When I went back, I did put down work that I did for my husband's business on my resume.  It made my 9-10 year gap more like a 5 or 6 year gap, with the work I did for him being more recent.    I did have to have his business partner provide a reference, but my other reference was from a job I had in the late 90's/early 2000's.  

My mother was a single mom and worked full time at jobs she could never take off throughout my entire childhood.    We had to be super sick before she could take off work to stay home with us so we went to school sick (and I wound up hospitalized twice for things that should have been addressed quicker), no vacations, and definitely no extra money. 

Yes I did. It was my employment from 1996-Present. Before that, law firms. But twenty years working in a family business (company name makes it apparent) makes it obvious I have not been working in a typical business. 

[Wheres Toto]

35 minutes ago, Quill said:

Yes I did. It was my employment from 1996-Present. Before that, law firms. But twenty years working in a family business (company name makes it apparent) makes it obvious I have not been working in a typical business. 

Gotcha.   That probably did make it harder.  It wasn't obvious that it was a family company on my resume.  I was honest with them when I interviewed but it probably helped me get an interview. 

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

It was a huge sacrifice for me.  When I am at home and focused on family and home, I pour my energy and time and creativity into here.  When I am giving that away to someone or somewhere else, there is less here.

I absolutely believe that's how it was for you. And I've certainly seen it play it out like that for some families I've known. 

However, it never felt to me that I have a finite amount of energy and creativity to give... in the same way that having more kids doesn't mean that you love any one of your kids less, I haven't found that working part time meant I have less to give to my kids. 

When I work out of the home, I learn things from my work and get exposed to a wider range of ideas/thoughts/people. I feel more fulfilled, because I'm not unambitious and I like doing more ambitious things. Since some of my jobs involve teaching, I also get to experiment with teaching strategies before using them on my kids, and we've all benefited from that. Since some of my jobs involve working in my first language, they help me improve my vocabulary, which helps me teach my kids. 

Again, I absolutely believe that it feels like a zero sum game for some people. It just never did for me. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Your wording makes it sound like.  “You think this way....but it’s not the reality. “.  I know what you meant was “your experience was different than my experience has been” but your post didn’t come across that way.  

I am not really sure how I could rephrase it to make it sound like I meant it to. I already said I've seen it play out like that for other families. I'm sure it depends on the specific work one does and lots of other factors. 

ETA: Anyway, I'm sorry it came across that way. I just wanted to point out that it doesn't HAVE to feel like you always lose out on the kid side of the equation if you work 🙂 . But I'm not in any way doubting that it does feel like that sometimes. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

Instead of “I know you believe x” you might actually say “my experience was different.”   The former implies that belief is different from reality.  That latter recognizes that reality is actually different for different people.  

This is all about feelings, no? I said "I absolutely believe it felt that way." 

But I'm happy to change that to "I absolutely believe that's how it was for you." 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I absolutely believe that it feels that way for you. And I've certainly seen it play it out like that for some families I've known. 

However, it never felt to me that I have a finite amount of energy and creativity to give... in the same way that having more kids doesn't mean that you love any one of your kids less, I haven't found that working part time meant I have less to give to my kids. 

When I work out of the home, I learn things from my work and get exposed to a wider range of ideas/thoughts/people. I feel more fulfilled, because I'm not unambitious and I like doing more ambitious things. Since some of my jobs involve teaching, I also get to experiment with teaching strategies before using them on my kids, and we've all benefited from that. Since some of my jobs involve working in my first language, they help me improve my vocabulary, which helps me teach my kids. 

Again, I absolutely believe that it feels like a zero sum game for some people. It just never did for me. 

This is true for me too. I love learning about someone’s case. I love listening in for a status update with a client and thinking about their problems and how they can best be solved. I love soothing a client who is frustrated about how long their cases is taking or some other facet. So many people just need to feel heard and I like talking them out of their frustration, or at least helping them table it for now. I even like the purposeful-ness about getting up in the morning, putting on nice clothes, packing a lunch and driving to work. 

I loved many things about homeschooling, but I did not realize how much I missed those aspects of work until now I have them again. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Quill said:

I even like the purposeful-ness about getting up in the morning, putting on nice clothes, packing a lunch and driving to work. 

Yeah, I agree about that one. I haven't had a "proper job" in an office so far, but before the pandemic, I enjoyed leaving the house without the kids and going to work in a coffee shop. It was freeing and recharging and I came back happier than I left. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

No it’s not all about feelings.  It’s about people’s actually realities.  

It’s actual reality that my home has ALWAYS functioned better with me at home.  That’s not just how I felt, it’s a fact.  It’s also a fact that for other people, it’s not that way.  It’s not how people feel, it’s fact.  

My point is that the way you feel is what makes it a fact. If work is overwhelming and you're exhausted, then obviously working out of the house isn't working well. If it's recharging you and making you feel more useful in the world, then that's a different situation.

Anyway, I work VERY part time. This is a very different calculation with a less flexible job; it was frankly a different calculation when DD4 was a very needy baby who didn't tolerate any babysitters, too. 

But I'm not dismissing "mere feelings" here. I think the way the mother feels about these trade offs is a large part of what makes it work and not work. It's not ONLY the time constraints. There's a difference between "I hate having to work" and "I get some fulfillment out of working," and the difference is almost all feelings. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

My point is that no it’s not “how you feel” that makes it a reality.  There is an objective reality involved.  At its very most basic, that reality is obviously...do the kids have food to eat, a roof over their heads, etc etc.  

but beyond that, the question of “is the family better off” requires more data than “is mom exhausted and overwhelmed.”   That’s an important piece of data, but it’s not the most important one in answering the question”is the family better off.”   

my role as a SAHM was always about so much more than me.  

Sure, there's an objective reality involved. My personal objective reality was that me working outside the home didn't deprive my children of anything. I did have to get paid childcare for them, but that hasn't been a problem for us. 

Again, I'm sure this varies. That's just how it was for us. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, happysmileylady said:

My point is that your reality is different from someone else’s reality.  And that it’s ok for it to be different...but that it’s different because it’s actually for real actually different, and not only a different in beliefs or feelings.

I don't think I ever disagreed with that. People's realities are different. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

No, what you said was people believe their realities are different.  And as I explained that implies that belief is different from reality.  If you mean “your experience was different from mine” then you should say that and not “you believe that your experience was different”

I didn't SAY that. I said "I believe your experience was different." I didn't say "YOU believe your experience was different." 

I'm not sure why you're picking at my wording here. I've been as clear as I possibly can be. 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Choirfarm3 said:

My reality and my children's reality is that I was SO much happier and had so much more to give when I was working. I guess it is just me, but I am SO much more than a mom. Being a mom is not enough for me. Just my personal reality. 

I think this is why the pandemic is getting to me and I'm wishing for a real job outside of the house.  My youngest graduated in May.  I've shut down my dance studio indefinitely.  I've never been JUST a mom/housewife except during the summer months.  This is the first time in 20 years that I haven't had any classes of any kind to teach.  My kids are grown up.  Even my son who has serious physical disabilities does not want me in his space every waking hour.  It's too much.  I'm too much.  I'm a high-energy, social person. 

Right now the holidays are sort-of keeping me busy, but it's not going to matter in ten years that I made 12 kinds of cookies instead of buying them.  It will matter whether or not I've added to our retirement savings.  It seems like a waste of my energy to NOT be producing something real and investing in a future when I'm less energetic and too old to WANT to work.  So much of what I'm doing lately is undone by the next day and has no long-term benefit.  So much of what I'm doing could be done by ANYONE and doesn't HAVE to be done by me.  I have to have detailed lists to keep me focused on household chores because they are too boring to remember.

I feel like I have a lot to offer and I'm ready to start a new chapter, but now I'm being told to expect ageism and to be prepared for it to take a long time to find employment.  I feel young and like I need to go for it while I still have my health.  I'm busting out of my skin here! This next phase would have been easier if I set it up a long time ago.  My kids haven't needed a 24/7 me in years.  My son's physical disabilities mean he needs someone in the house with him, but he's fairly self sufficient once he's in his power chair and my Dh works from home.  

I think I've hit my limit for being fine on house arrest.  I'm never actually bored because I always have something to do or read, but I am frustrated that the whole world is on pause.  

[Wheres Toto]

I feel like how someone feels about being a full time SAHM or working outside of the house has a LOT to do with how that person is going to look at the importance of the various trade-offs involved.

Someone who wants nothing more than to be a SAHM is going to be miserable having to go to work, and will probably emphasize the benefits of a SAHM because that's what is important to them.   Someone who either doesn't mind or wants to have a larger role outside of the house is going to emphasize different things and will not feel like those things given up by working are as important.  

Many of the things that are objective benefits to a SAHM can be achieved to at least some extent without a SAHM.  Maybe not to the same standards but how important that is will vary greatly by how the mom in question prioritizes things and what standards she wants to meet anyway.   

I know for me, I'm not any better at cooking and cleaning when I'm home all day than I am when I work.  I do much better with outside imposed restrictions and get more done when I have to schedule it.  Dh has cooked dinner 99% of the time since we've been married regardless of my status as full time working mom, full time SAHM, part time working mom, running my own business, or whatever.   His status has always been full time working, but he still cooks healthy, nutritious meals from scratch most of the time.  

But whatever I worked my kids know I'm there to help them with school, to talk when they want to, to get them to their activities (during normal times when there are activities).   My oldest, who experienced most of my full time working when she was young, told me recently all her friends thought I was the best (and she agreed!) because I was the one who took them all to see the Twilight movies in the middle of the night when a new one came out and they did a special thing where you watched the first movies then the new one at midnight.    She says she hopes to be a mom just like me. 

Working may mean a slightly messier house and simpler meals but for many of us, we're okay with that.  It doesn't have to mean not being there for your kids. 

[Amy Gen]

I have always known that I wanted to be a stay at home mom for a biggish family. I remember when my mom went back to school and to work. She told me that her therapist told her that when the mom does things that fulfill her, the whole family is happier. 
 

But I wasn’t happier. 
 

I think I was just a bratty kid at the time, but the neighbor who started watching me after school had a house that smelled like egg salad sandwiches. That made me feel very sorry for myself. I guess I was pretty spoiled because I did resent the change in my life when I no longer had a stay at home mom. 
 

I knew that I didn’t want that for my own kids. I knew that would never make me happy. I did worry about how I would support my future children, and so I got a degree in education so if I was widowed, I would be able to at least be home with them on school holidays and in the summer. I warned my husband that if he married me, I would never leave my child to go to work. I took out my teacher retirement when my oldest was born. 
 

But here is the thing. I know moms who have worked their kids’ entire lives, and they are every bit as good of mothers as I consider myself to be. Their kids are every bit as happy and successful and emotionally well cared for as mine. Those mothers didn’t do it all. They hired loving nannies and paid for kumon when the schools didn’t teach phonics and one had a husband who retired when the kids reached high school age because that was a time they felt was crucial to have extra support. But they got it all done and all done well. 
 

There really isn’t one right way to parent. 
 

I just know myself. I generally have low energy and hyper focus and a hard time making transitions and a hard time making comprises. I’m not good candidate for having a career and raising a family at the same time. 
 

My time at home has been fulfilling. I have folded different kids into our homeschool at various times. I have almost gotten in my 10,000 hours of mastery in cooking. My husband and I both spend many hours volunteering each week. I don’t think that is some kind of sad, less than life. I don’t regret anything or wish I had chosen differently. 
 

But none of that means that working part time or full time while raising a family is wrong or somehow less than for someone else. 

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

But here is the thing. I know moms who have worked their kids’ entire lives, and they are every bit as good of mothers as I consider myself to be. Their kids are every bit as happy and successful and emotionally well cared for as mine. Those mothers didn’t do it all. They hired loving nannies and paid for kumon when the schools didn’t teach phonics and one had a husband who retired when the kids reached high school age because that was a time they felt was crucial to have extra support. But they got it all done and all done well. 

There really isn’t one right way to parent. 

I just know myself. I generally have low energy and hyper focus and a hard time making transitions and a hard time making comprises. I’m not good candidate for having a career and raising a family at the same time. 

I think "knowing yourself" is the crux of the matter. One ought to know what is important to one and what is important to one's kids and also what one is good at and what one is not good at. 

So, for example, I happen to KNOW that I'm very good at picking out babysitters that genuinely enjoy time with my kids and develop enduring, loving relationships with them. We had 3 NYC babysitters we used occasionally before COVID, and almost a year later, all of them still check in on the kids, occasionally come to DD8's Zoom recitals, and some send presents for holidays. We saw our last babysitter from Austin when we visited right before COVID... she obviously hadn't watched the kids for 2 years at that point, but she was STILL excited to meet up when we visited. So I'm pretty sure all of these relationships benefited the kids and enriched their lives. 

But that's not true in general! When I watched the nannies at preschool pick up, only some seemed to genuinely like the kids they were watching. It was clear from watching that kids could get VERY different experiences of paid childcare depending on the people you hired. Even DH, who is pretty savvy about people, wasn't nearly as good at figuring out which babysitters would actually do well with the kids. (He was a little too tempted to pick people he'd want to be friends with instead.) 

So... knowing that we could do a good job with this made a big difference for my decision-making. So did knowing my other strengths and weaknesses. It really does come back to knowing yourself. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Amy Gen]

38 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'm very good at picking out babysitters that genuinely enjoy time with my kids and develop enduring, loving relationships with them.

I have to tell you this story. I recently reconnected with a little girl (who is somehow now 40) who I babysat when she was 8 and I was 18. 
 

I didn’t know it at the time, but her mother told me that she was clinically depressed at the time. I came over twice a week and loved on the kids and ironed the basket of wrinkled clothes and made banana bread from the banana’s that were just about to turn and cooked dinner for everyone. 
 

The “little girl” says that I’m one of the most influential people in her life. She is ready to be an auntie to my own kids and is already stepping up in some super helpful ways. 
 

Moms really don’t have to do it all. A village isn’t always inferior. 

[sassenach]

7 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

My mom just retired and it's just hit her that everything she gave there, not that it wasn't appreciated, but she was easily replaced.

 

This is really interesting because I think it's the close to the same emotion that SAHMs feel when the kids move out and they're left behind. You can't win for losing.

 

I think I possess a weird ability to be content in whatever season I'm in. I've been a SAHM for 23 years and pretty content with that. Now I'm in school and pursuing a career in nursing. Not gonna lie, I'm really excited about making an income and contributing to my kids' college educations. Other than occasional fear about being too old to score a new grad nursing job (stay tuned), I feel very good about it all. 

 

[kiwik]

9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

And I think that is  a separate part of it.  But doing it because you so fear things that very well will never happen is probably not the best use of energy. 

I don't have a husband bit I don't think I would be doing it out of fear.  More as something I do for myself for my long term well being.

 

[kiwik]

9 hours ago, BlsdMama said:

It was a huge sacrifice for me.  When I am at home and focused on family and home, I pour my energy and time and creativity into here.  When I am giving that away to someone or somewhere else, there is less here.

My mom just retired and it's just hit her that everything she gave there, not that it wasn't appreciated, but she was easily replaced.

I look at what I've done over the years - given my kids a top notch education, poured my energy into building things, making things, creating things, growing things, and I KNOW it contributed to how I developed and who I am as a person.  And these things happened because I had the free time and energy and margin to think about stuff - to be proactive rather than reactive. 

The mother who pours her energy into the home, who HAS that energy and time to pour into the home, does not waste it.  If I had worked 10-20 hours each week, spent time on the commute, did the work that must be done on evenings and weekends? Would I have had the time to read aloud as much as I did, to discuss, to expolore? Would we have spent the hours outside together? The really important question - would we have gotten goats? 😉 Would I have encouraged curiosity and experimentation because all of that meant a lot of time and a lot of clean up?  Some people HAVE to work.  But some think they have to and they're really working for lifestyle and I'm not saying any mother should feel guilty for having to work - EVER.  But neither do I pretend like I could have lived the life I lived and worked part time.  And, now, at a place where I realize time is shockingly finite with my family? I'm so glad they got the best of me instead of what was leftover from my tiredness of "pouring in" to another place and for another person who wasn't family.  Because I did work - both at the beginning of our marriage full time and part time just not that many years ago, and frankly, having done both, you don't get to do both without some cost somewhere.  All choices have a cost and all choices carry risk.  My mother worked.  It carried the risk of not having the time and energy to pour in at home at a certain level.  That risk was true and that cost was real.  And I benefited as well  - private school, nice clothes, and not worrying about food or healthcare.  But I think we need to be honest in that no one can do all the things and do all the things well.  A person is primarily successful in one arena, hence the saying, "a jack of all trades and a master of none."  Either is a valid choice, but either comes with cost and risk.

I do agree there.  I wish I could cut my hours to 15 a week so I wasn't so damn tired all the time.  I also know it is better for me mentally to work and it is the only income we have.

And I do agree that most households do work better with one person staying at home or mostly at home.

Edited December 22, 2020 by kiwik

[2squared]

12 hours ago, Wheres Toto said:

Many of the things that are objective benefits to a SAHM can be achieved to at least some extent without a SAHM.  Maybe not to the same standards but how important that is will vary greatly by how the mom in question prioritizes things and what standards she wants to meet anyway.   

But whatever I worked my kids know I'm there to help them with school, to talk when they want to, to get them to their activities (during normal times when there are activities).   My oldest, who experienced most of my full time working when she was young, told me recently all her friends thought I was the best (and she agreed!) because I was the one who took them all to see the Twilight movies in the middle of the night when a new one came out and they did a special thing where you watched the first movies then the new one at midnight.    She says she hopes to be a mom just like me. 

Working may mean a slightly messier house and simpler meals but for many of us, we're okay with that.  It doesn't have to mean not being there for your kids. 

I snipped this comment, but I agree with your thoughts. I transitioned from homeschooling to FT career when my oldest was in 6th grade. It was a rough transition, and I believe we all prefer homeschooling. However, we also prefer the financial stability and luxuries two FT incomes provide. While our house is messier and our meals are simpler, my connection with my kids is no different than when I was at home FT. 

I have a very high need for financial security. I can't handle living paycheck-to-paycheck or underfunding retirement. I need a large emergency fund, and I want to pay for my kids' activities, first cars, and college educations. My dh wasn't able to make enough $ for me to be secure, and his need to job hop every 4-5 years made me nervous. My skills allowed me to jump back into the workforce after an 8 year absence, making more $ than dh. We didn't make the change blindly, though. We were mostly through the daycare years before making the change. We chose to live in a very small rural community so the kids do have a village. My employer is extremely family friendly, and I work from home as needed. I have rarely missed anything with my five active kids. While not everyone has the ability to balance a flexible work-life balance with a higher salary and I do dearly wish I could be home every day with my kids, I believe my kids are turning out great with two FT working parents. 

We all do the best we can with the circumstances in our control.

Edited December 22, 2020 by 2squared

[Alicia64]

On 12/17/2020 at 5:32 PM, MoyaPechal said:

I've looked at George Mason University, which is a local public college where my husband did his master's at night a few years ago. I have a bachelor's but I could do a career change degree for teaching or nursing, which I think about sometimes. But then I couldn't homeschool and our city's schools are not good.

The unexpected happens. You're super smart to be thinking about this.

I LOVE the nursing degree idea. Love it. I'm doing research on this now for a friend. You can go to a two-year college to get an RN (registered nurse) degree, and then you take a state exam to get the RN certificate. You have to have the cert to be an RN. (Many states are hurting for nurses.)

If you up the life insurance so that you're covered for at least three years, you'll have time to get your RN cert.

Or, alternatively, you can start now taking a class or two a semester toward your RN degree. Honestly, that's what I would do. I'd do the following:

1) Up your life insurance to cover you and the kids for three to four years.

2) Begin working toward your RN degree.

3) Some jobs actually give disability insurance as part of their benefits package. Ask dh to look into this.

4) What would your dh's job pay if he were to die? Some give a certain amount, others give one year's salary to the spouse.

5) I'm assuming you guys are young, but his social security would come to you too.

I wouldn't go the teaching route. I just hear friends who are constantly annoyed with their teaching jobs.

Hugs -- I've thought long and hard about this very topic too. My boys are 17 now, but when they were 16 and under we had massive life insurance on dh. And I kept a file on where everything was hidden (a bank here, a credit union there, asked what dh's job would pay etc)

You're smart for thinking about this!! (You'll feel way better once you have a plan.)

Wendy

[Random]

2 hours ago, 2squared said:

I snipped this comment, but I agree with your thoughts. I transitioned from homeschooling to FT career when my oldest was in 6th grade. It was a rough transition, and I believe we all prefer homeschooling. However, we also prefer the financial stability and luxuries two FT incomes provide. While our house is messier and our meals are simpler, my connection with my kids is no different than when I was at home FT. 

I have a very high need for financial security. I can't handle living paycheck-to-paycheck or underfunding retirement. I need a large emergency fund, and I want to pay for my kids' activities, first cars, and college educations. My dh wasn't able to make enough $ for me to be secure, and his need to job hop every 4-5 years made me nervous. My skills allowed me to jump back into the workforce after an 8 year absence, making more $ than dh. We didn't make the change blindly, though. We were mostly through the daycare years before making the change. We chose to live in a very small rural community so the kids do have a village. My employer is extremely family friendly, and I work from home as needed. I have rarely missed anything with my five active kids. While not everyone has the ability to balance a flexible work-life balance with a higher salary and I do dearly wish I could be home every day with my kids, I believe my kids are turning out great with two FT working parents. 

We all do the best we can with the circumstances in our control.

Just...wow!  This is the stuff my fantasies consist of.  (HA!)  I'm curious to know what line of work you're in, if you're willing to share.  It sounds like the perfect career.  A very small rural community typically limits higher income careers.  I'm also in the midlife pivot and have started working again, but it's been a long, hard uphill slog with multiple stepping-stone jobs that will hopefully lead back into where I was 20-ish years ago.  I'm in a very small rural community and for me that has meant low income potential, very few employment opportunities, bad schools (still compelled to homeschool), kid activities require traveling to other cities (huge time commitment from a driving parent), etc.

[Garga]

13 hours ago, sassenach said:

This is really interesting because I think it's the close to the same emotion that SAHMs feel when the kids move out and they're left behind. You can't win for losing.

 

I think I possess a weird ability to be content in whatever season I'm in. I've been a SAHM for 23 years and pretty content with that. Now I'm in school and pursuing a career in nursing. Not gonna lie, I'm really excited about making an income and contributing to my kids' college educations. Other than occasional fear about being too old to score a new grad nursing job (stay tuned), I feel very good about it all. 

 

All this resonates with me.

I’m still SAHMing, but I suspect that when it’s time to get some work, I’ll be content about it. 

 

 

[Arcadia]

42 minutes ago, Garga said:

All this resonates with me.

I’m still SAHMing, but I suspect that when it’s time to get some work, I’ll be content about it. 

I’m an extrovert so I have been taking classes at the same community college my kids are doing dual enrollment in. My husband is of the opinion that if I want to go back to the workforce then that’s my choice but he earns enough for me to just go into full time volunteer work.

For the OP, there isn’t much anyone can plan for sudden death other than the financial aspects and your support system. So having your name on bank accounts, utilities, and as the beneficiary for his life insurances. My husband bought life insurances in college that has his parents as beneficiary. 

[1234]

I airways thought I would go back to work but when the time came none of us wanted that. Our dc are now 18 and 21 and I have no plans to look for a job. Dh and I are excited about doing our own thing now. Dh works from home (has for the last five years) and that makes travel easier so we don’t now want to be tied to a work schedule for me.

My own dad was killed in a car accident at the age of 54 and there is no planning for that. I’m glad we spent so much time together as a family. I’m just not someone who is going to spend time worrying about what if’s because I prefer to just enjoy the now. Dh has a generous life insurance policy so I’ll have time to figure things out of something did happen to him and divorce is just not a thing I see happening here so I’m not going to plan for it.

I also have zero regrets that I’ve been a stay home mom since oldest was born 21 years ago. I’ve enjoyed it and never felt like I wasn’t  doing something worthwhile.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Joker2

[2squared]

7 hours ago, Random said:

Just...wow!  This is the stuff my fantasies consist of.  (HA!)  I'm curious to know what line of work you're in, if you're willing to share.  It sounds like the perfect career.  A very small rural community typically limits higher income careers.  I'm also in the midlife pivot and have started working again, but it's been a long, hard uphill slog with multiple stepping-stone jobs that will hopefully lead back into where I was 20-ish years ago.  I'm in a very small rural community and for me that has meant low income potential, very few employment opportunities, bad schools (still compelled to homeschool), kid activities require traveling to other cities (huge time commitment from a driving parent), etc.

I have a four year accounting degree, and I passed the CPA exam before college graduation but my CPA is not active  Before I was a SAHM, I worked in  accounting for a couple Fortune 100 companies. This career choice suites me perfectly, and I have always advanced quickly. All companies need accountants.

While I have lived in large cities, I have also strategically chosen employment in rural locations which have divisions of large companies. This allows me to have the benefits of LCOL but with higher salary potential.

We live in a rural community of 1400. I commute ~10 miles to a town of 14,000 - the largest city in our county. We did have to relocate for my current job, but my company paid all our relocation costs. I made $80k when they hired me as a senior accountant (a couple steps down from my previous career), and 7 years later I am well over $100k as a senior accounting manager. I love the work I do, and I enjoy the team I manage. My company and boss have provided me with a fantastic work/life balance, and I will not leave willingly. Lol  

Edited December 23, 2020 by 2squared

[shawthorne44]

One thing I would keep in forefront of your what-if plans, is that if you won't have DH's income, you will no longer be tied to the HCOL area.  You could move anywhere.  Anywhere.  So, I wouldn't toss out the idea of, for example, a home daycare because your current lease doesn't allow it.  It is a lease.   States are different, but death usually allows you out of a lease.   If you hated the idea of running a home daycare, that is different.  You could also start a pod homeschool.  With the school shutdowns, they became very popular, and I expect that they'll stay an accepted thing.  You accept three or four kids at your child's level, that they get along with.  And you homeschool the other kids along with your own.  

We live in an exurb in a small town on one acre of land.  We also own and rent out the house next door.  We paid less than 200K for both houses and if we had no income we could survive on the rental income + food stamps, etc.   No loans is what would allow us to survive.  There is no one nearby that smokes.  In fact, it is on the lease that they can't smoke.  And we have dairy goats and chickens!  

I don't know what the life insurance is, but the amount of rent you'd pay in rent for three years in a very HCOL area, would buy outright a 3/2/2 in a LCOL area.  
 

----------------------------

Someone else mentioned nursing as a possible idea for themselves.  My bestfriend who also homeschools works as a RN at night on weekends.    She takes care of disabled former NICU babies who need round-the-clock care.  Since it is 12 hour shifts she works 3-4 nights a week.   Of course she has a DH who is home during that time.  

 

[regentrude]

On 12/21/2020 at 5:26 PM, Choirfarm3 said:

My reality and my children's reality is that I was SO much happier and had so much more to give when I was working. I guess it is just me, but I am SO much more than a mom. Being a mom is not enough for me.

So much this.

I became a much happier mom and a better wife with more energy and more to give once I went back to work. I was tired and depressed as a SAHM, and it did my entire family a world of good when I realized that that did not work for me. It would have been beneficial for all of us, even without considering the financial benefits of me working.

ETA: My kids still got read alouds and park afternoons and home cooked meals and a fantastic home education and weekend forest adventures and mountain backpacks with mom and dad. Of any regrets I may have at my life's end, not having spent enough time with my kids is definitely not one of them. It is possible to find a balance.

Edited December 23, 2020 by regentrude

[2squared]

10 hours ago, regentrude said:

So much this.

I became a much happier mom and a better wife with more energy and more to give once I went back to work. I was tired and depressed as a SAHM, and it did my entire family a world of good when I realized that that did not work for me. It would have been beneficial for all of us, even without considering the financial benefits of me working.

ETA: My kids still got read alouds and park afternoons and home cooked meals and a fantastic home education and weekend forest adventures and mountain backpacks with mom and dad. Of any regrets I may have at my life's end, not having spent enough time with my kids is definitely not one of them. It is possible to find a balance.

I saw this time regret playing out when my oldest left for college in the fall. I work FT and I would have dearly loved to be home with the kids FT, but I have the relationship that I wanted with her. Dh, however, would probably like a redo on some items. Having her home a lot more than expected this freshman year has been good for him. 

[fairfarmhand]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:42 PM, Not_a_Number said:

I absolutely believe that's how it was for you. And I've certainly seen it play it out like that for some families I've known. 

However, it never felt to me that I have a finite amount of energy and creativity to give... in the same way that having more kids doesn't mean that you love any one of your kids less, I haven't found that working part time meant I have less to give to my kids. 

When I work out of the home, I learn things from my work and get exposed to a wider range of ideas/thoughts/people. I feel more fulfilled, because I'm not unambitious and I like doing more ambitious things. Since some of my jobs involve teaching, I also get to experiment with teaching strategies before using them on my kids, and we've all benefited from that. Since some of my jobs involve working in my first language, they help me improve my vocabulary, which helps me teach my kids. 

Again, I absolutely believe that it feels like a zero sum game for some people. It just never did for me. 

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different with just 2 kids. Depending on which of my 2 kids we were discussing. 

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different if I lived in a small apartment with no yard.

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different if my dh didn't work a demanding job.

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different if my mother, hypothetical sister, or another close relative lived nearby to help fill in the cracks.

What I mean is that everyone has different factors that determine whether full time SAH parenting is a good choice for them. 

Everyone has different energy levels; everyone has different comfort with risk. Everyone has different social and intellectual stimulation needs. What we must be careful of is saying "x way is the best way of doing life and parenting." when what is actually reality is much more nuanced. There are so many factors that play into whether full time or part time work is best FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY UNIT. 

And mom is a part of that unit as well. Yes, many kids dislike it when their mothers go to work. Perhaps they don't understand the full ramifications of what having an at home parent means. Generally, kids do want and need stability and the idea that their parents make them a priority, no matter what their employment status is. 

 

22 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I’m an extrovert so I have been taking classes at the same community college my kids are doing dual enrollment in. My husband is of the opinion that if I want to go back to the workforce then that’s my choice but he earns enough for me to just go into full time volunteer work.

For the OP, there isn’t much anyone can plan for sudden death other than the financial aspects and your support system. So having your name on bank accounts, utilities, and as the beneficiary for his life insurances. My husband bought life insurances in college that has his parents as beneficiary. 

One thing I should add in this conversation that I discovered when my MIL passed is that if both spouses are not on an account, then it will be split up in probate for the inheritors, should one of the spouses pass. Which means that part of the money could go directly to the children, bypassing the spouse.  This could be a problem if you're depending on that asset to help raise the kids. So in my state, if my dh died and I was not on his investment accounts, I would get 1/3 of those assets and my four children would split the remaining 2/3. If I need that money to finish raising them, that could be hairy. This varies by state, but that's how it is in my state. I don't know how the surviving parent is permitted to utilize the assets of their minor children, but I'm fairly certain that there would be rules about it. So it's pretty important for both spouses to have their names on financial accounts. 

And yes, having some sort of cash savings account to pay for things until insurance comes through is super important. 

[Not_a_Number]

20 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Everyone has different energy levels; everyone has different comfort with risk. Everyone has different social and intellectual stimulation needs. What we must be careful of is saying "x way is the best way of doing life and parenting." when what is actually reality is much more nuanced. There are so many factors that play into whether full time or part time work is best FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY UNIT. 

Definitely. I hope I haven't sounded like there's a "best way." 

 

20 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

And mom is a part of that unit as well. Yes, many kids dislike it when their mothers go to work. Perhaps they don't understand the full ramifications of what having an at home parent means. Generally, kids do want and need stability and the idea that their parents make them a priority, no matter what their employment status is. 

Isn't saying "many kids dislike it when their mothers go to work" a way of saying that for many kids, it's NOT the best way? That seems like exactly the kind of thing we shouldn't be saying. 

I think kids like feeling like they are a priority. I think kids can feel like they are a priority even when mothers work out of the house.

[Not_a_Number]

Also, frankly, why does it HAVE to be the mother that stays home? I know that's a whole other can of worms, but I sometimes worry what exactly I'm communicating to my extremely bright girls by staying home. I don't regret the choices I've made in any way, but I'd like my girls to feel like they have the choice to change the world in other ways... this was my way, and they may have their own. 

[Jaybee]

6 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different with just 2 kids. Depending on which of my 2 kids we were discussing. 

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different if I lived in a small apartment with no yard.

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different if my dh didn't work a demanding job.

I think that my thoughts on this topic would be different if my mother, hypothetical sister, or another close relative lived nearby to help fill in the cracks.

What I mean is that everyone has different factors that determine whether full time SAH parenting is a good choice for them. 

Everyone has different energy levels; everyone has different comfort with risk. Everyone has different social and intellectual stimulation needs. What we must be careful of is saying "x way is the best way of doing life and parenting." when what is actually reality is much more nuanced. There are so many factors that play into whether full time or part time work is best FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY UNIT. 

And mom is a part of that unit as well. Yes, many kids dislike it when their mothers go to work. Perhaps they don't understand the full ramifications of what having an at home parent means. Generally, kids do want and need stability and the idea that their parents make them a priority, no matter what their employment status is. 

 

So much this! Very well said. I'd been a SAHM for years and years. Then our circumstances changed, youngest went to ps, we needed the funds, so I got a part-time job. Despite being out of the workforce for over 30 years, I was hired for 30 hrs/wk. At the risk of sounding prideful, I'm very good at what I do (office work+). I was afraid I'd be behind in the tech areas, but because I used my computer a lot at home, I was actually ahead of most, if not all, of my co-workers. I've worked this job for several years. 

Dh was never just real happy I was working, for several reasons (none of which was to limit my possibilities), but we didn't see a way for me to quit. There were things I enjoyed about it, and aspects that were good for me. However, in the past months, it has gradually become an unhealthy place for me to be. My stress level has shot up, and I am so exhausted when I get home, even not working full-time. My kids at home are older, but still, things just run better when I am here. So I have quit my job. 

Before I started working, we had had changes in our family life that I hadn't quite adjusted to yet, and I hadn't gotten into a good, disciplined routine (not homeschooling anymore, for one). I was struggling a bit with figuring out what to do with myself in this new stage. However, now that I have been working several years, I don't think that will be as much of a problem. I'm in a routine that will need tweaking, but I have plans and ideas of things I want to accomplish. I am not sorry I worked for those years, but I am very glad they are done. 

The factors FFH mentions above do affect so much whether being a SAHM is a good choice. I have seen both work well, and both not work well at all.

[regentrude]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Also, frankly, why does it HAVE to be the mother that stays home? 

Excellent point. Besides culture: finances, biology, and politics. 
In many families there is an asymmetry in earning potential, so financially it would make no sense for the father to quit the higher paying job.
Pumping breastmilk at work so the father can bottle feed at home adds an extra layer of stress that many families would rather avoid.
Things would probably look very different if we had decent maternity leave in this country and mothers would know they had a job to return to after the first baby phase - something all other countries seem to have figured out.

 

Edited December 23, 2020 by regentrude