Can I count programming as a science class?

[bethben]

I’m thinking toward next year as some places around here are starting to get kids enrolled already.  My ds will be in 11th and already have two lab sciences by that time(chemistry and biology).  Can programming be considered a science?

[EKS]

I put it in a section on my kids' transcripts called "natural science and technology."  That said, both had five years of natural science (including biology, chemistry, and physics) in addition to the programming (and other technology) courses.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by EKS

[bethben]

I guess I’m trying to go more for his interests instead of trying to fill spots for college admission.  Sure, physics is next in the sequence, but he’d rather do a ton of programming classes.

[RootAnn]

Are you wondering about college admission guidelines, state graduation recommendations or ???

My eldest only had 3 credits of science (where 1 credit was a 1 semester college class). My next will have more but she is less STEM-y than dd#1-- just the way things went. No idea how #3 will end up. 

I am all for signing them up for what interests them, especially the less motivated ones.

[bethben]

I guess college guidelines.  I don’t want to hamper his chances if he goes that direction.  I guess I need to look into state guidelines.  Forgot about that one.

[Frances]

At the college level, I’ve often seen it allowed to fulfill a math requirement rather than a science requirement. 

[Lanny]

I believe many C.S. courses are very close to Math courses, at least in a percentage of their content. One of the C.S. courses my DD took in the Fall 2020 semester was like that. It was extremely Math heavy.

I do not think Programming or C.S. courses are Science courses and I would not list them as Science courses.

[Roadrunner]

9 hours ago, Lanny said:

s are very close to Math courses, at least in a percentage of their content. One of the C.S. courses my DD took in the Fall 2020 semester was like that. It was extremely Math heavy.

I do not think Programming or C.S. courses are Science courses and I would not list them as Science courses.

University of California classifies C.S. as science. 

 

https://codeorg.medium.com/university-of-california-finally-allows-computer-science-to-count-towards-admissions-science-84239793b3b4

Edited December 18, 2020 by Roadrunner

[EKS]

On 12/16/2020 at 11:05 AM, bethben said:

I guess I’m trying to go more for his interests instead of trying to fill spots for college admission.  Sure, physics is next in the sequence, but he’d rather do a ton of programming classes.

The public school here counts AP Computer Science A as either a math or a career/technical education class.  The CC lists computer science classes as satisfying the natural science requirement for the AA degree.  

Your homeschool, your rules.

[MerryAtHope]

My oldest did robotics and I counted it in the “science and technology” category. I did make sure that he had the number and type of science credits our state u’s wanted to see (Biology was the only standard requirement here, and the rest could vary by interest). 

[Farrar]

Some states will count it as science, others won't and same with colleges. As EKS said, you can count it if you choose to and colleges will take that into account to an extent. But even in states where it "counts" it'll look weak for a STEM student. CS is a competitive major. I think it honestly would hamper his chances at *some* colleges. He should have both the CS and a science if increased college options is the goal, especially for junior year.

Of course, there are always schools a student with a slightly less strong transcript can get into. And if you're in a state where there are lots of less competitive good state schools where he's likely bound anyway, then this may not matter much. Plus, there are goals other than "be competitive for colleges." If his happiness is at stake then that can matter a lot. And if not taking a science will leave space for the ability to do something much more in depth with coding, then maybe it'll be offset and maybe the right college match will come out of that. Still, if I was trying to make room for a student who was interested in computer science, I'd probably keep the math strong, make sure the science and English were good, and go light on social studies and foreign language. Maybe even drop the foreign language if he has two years already. Having 3+ years also helps a student be more competitive for college, but if something needs to go, then I'd ditch that before I'd ditch a science course if the student is interested in any STEM field.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Farrar

[fourisenough]

I have just been following this thread with nothing really to add; none of my students have had any interest in CS so I had no idea what the answer was. I think @Farrar makes a really good point, though. We have a lot of control over what classes our students take and how we count/classify them, but it doesn’t mean all scenarios make for an equally strong transcript. 
 

Each of my older two DDs (both attended PS for high school) took advantage of their school’s option to allow junior & senior students to take a reduced load - only five classes - to accommodate their intense club swimming schedule (6 evening + 3 morning practices per week). We naively thought this was fine since the five courses each took were rigorous (AP or honors) math, Eng, history, science, and foreign language. They just didn’t take any electives those two years.

In retrospect, I think this decision made their transcript look weak compared to their highly competitive peers. I wish we understood this at the time. As it turns out, for them, we chased merit money at a much less selective/competitive small college and it turned out okay. But I do think it closed some doors. I ‘blame’ this on their (really, really weak) guidance counselor; since I AM the guidance counselor for DD3, I’m paying much closer attention this time around!

[katilac]

I think that many colleges will not regard it as a science course, but I also think that many colleges will be fine with it anyway. My kids were accepted to schools where they didn't meet the 'requirements' - and only one school even asked about it (which was funny, bc she had already received her acceptance and scholarship offer, but apparently the different offices weren't communicating, lol). 

If he has a short list of colleges, I would check with them directly. If they say they won't accept CS and that 3 or more sciences are required, your son can decide if he wants to take the chance or not. 

[daijobu]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

I think that many colleges will not regard it as a science course, but I also think that many colleges will be fine with it anyway. My kids were accepted to schools where they didn't meet the 'requirements' - and only one school even asked about it (which was funny, bc she had already received her acceptance and scholarship offer, but apparently the different offices weren't communicating, lol). 

 

I think @katilac has a good lesson here for a variety of circumstances.  If you really want to apply to some school, but you can't cross all the t's and dot all the i's they ask for, then apply anyway.  Even if you call and ask and they tell you the requirements are firm apply anyway.  Often they will make exceptions for an exceptional candidate (or an ordinary candidate) but neither you nor they will know if you are exceptional until you apply.    

[Farrar]

On 12/31/2020 at 4:54 PM, daijobu said:

I think @katilac has a good lesson here for a variety of circumstances.  If you really want to apply to some school, but you can't cross all the t's and dot all the i's they ask for, then apply anyway.  Even if you call and ask and they tell you the requirements are firm apply anyway.  Often they will make exceptions for an exceptional candidate (or an ordinary candidate) but neither you nor they will know if you are exceptional until you apply.    

I agree that they should apply anyway... that's always true. I mean, lots of colleges bend these rules and most of the time, they are recommendations, not rules.

But also, you have to think about how the student looks compared to other students. A student with only three sciences is nearly always going to be at a disadvantage at a truly competitive college. It won't matter that they met the minimum for nearly every state and for what the colleges themselves recommend as a minimum. No one wins a race by running the race's minimum qualifying time. Of course, having a strong transcript in other ways can always make up for it, as can strong extracurriculars, strong rigor, etc. especially for a student not interested in a STEM program. I would just urge parents to keep these things in mind. You can't do it all and it's not necessarily a bad choice to do the minimum. But... it's worth thinking through.