Can we talk about Seasonal Affective Disorder?

[MEmama]

Every year DS has struggled this time of year. When he was young, we blamed his mood change on holiday excitement/anxiety. Later, we made other excuses—often he would be sick with bronchitis (asthma related, which we didn’t know), one winter he had Lyme, a couple years ago he had a bad-influence school friend, and so on. This year the pattern is repeating and our first excuse was, well, 2020, but now we are thinking perhaps it’s SAD. Looking back, it’s almost like clockwork.

He tends to get moody and loses all focus and motivation. This year is particularly bad and perhaps we aren’t on the right path but it seems like something to look into.

Other than a happy light (which we have and I find helpful) and upping his vitamin d, what else is recommended? He does get a decent amount of outdoor exercise most days, but other than that he’s been staying in his room.

I appreciate any and all insight and suggestions. 

[regentrude]

First: How much is "decent " amount? I found that I need way more outdoor physical exertion than I thought to stabilize my mood. 

Second: light, light, light. Not just the therapy lamp, that does little for me. Surprisingly,  I feel less depressed this winter,  despite the added stressors of pandemic and family illness, and I am pretty sure it's because I am working in front of a large south facing window in my home office and not in my cold, North facing campus office.

Third: coffee. Has been shown to have mild antidepressant properties ( there are some studies that show a significant reduction in suicide rate), and from personal experience I can confirm that. 

[MEmama]

8 minutes ago, regentrude said:

First: How much is "decent " amount? I found that I need way more outdoor physical exertion than I thought to stabilize my mood. 

Second: light, light, light. Not just the therapy lamp, that does little for me. Surprisingly,  I feel less depressed this winter,  despite the added stressors of pandemic and family illness, and I am pretty sure it's because I am working in front of a large south facing window in my home office and not in my cold, North facing campus office.

Third: coffee. Has been shown to have mild antidepressant properties ( there are some studies that show a significant reduction in suicide rate), and from personal experience I can confirm that. 

He gets outside for 1-2 hours most days to run or ski with teammates/friends. I’m trying to encourage him to take neighborhood walks with me between study sessions, but there’s only so many hours in a day, you know? And it’s dark here by 4 this time of year.

A south facing window would be ideal, especially on sunny days. His faces east which is unhelpful. I’m hopeful he will agree to work downstairs in the afternoons after lectures; the dining room gets lots of sun and I think the change of scenery would be helpful. I'll mention the light factor.
 

He won’t drink coffee, alas. 

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

He gets outside for 1-2 hours most days to run or ski with teammates/friends. I’m trying to encourage him to take neighborhood walks with me between study sessions, but there’s only so many hours in a day, you know? And it’s dark here by 4 this time of year.

A south facing window would be ideal, especially on sunny days. His faces east which is unhelpful. I’m hopeful he will agree to work downstairs in the afternoons after lectures; the dining room gets lots of sun and I think the change of scenery would be helpful. I'll mention the light factor.
 

He won’t drink coffee, alas. 

That does sound like he gets good exercise. And yes, early dark makes things difficult. I am trying to shift as much of my work as possible into the dark hours of early morning and late afternoon, to be able to use more of the sunny time outdoors. 

SAD sucks. Hope he feels better with a change of work space. 

[Ditto]

It sounds like you guys are doing all the right things.     I wonder if it is time to talk to his pediatrician and maybe a low dose antidepressant for the winter months?  I am not sure if they are used for just the winter months or not, but throwing it out there in case it is an option you want to explore.

[MEmama]

4 minutes ago, Ditto said:

It sounds like you guys are doing all the right things.     I wonder if it is time to talk to his pediatrician and maybe a low dose antidepressant for the winter months?  I am not sure if they are used for just the winter months or not, but throwing it out there in case it is an option you want to explore.

I hadn’t considered an antidepressant. Thanks for the idea. You might be on to something. 

[Acadie]

Timing matters for getting outside. Going out first thing in the morning (after sunrise, even if it's cloudy) helps me immensely. I can't recall the exact physiology--something to do with resetting our internal clocks or melatonin? The only winter in my adult l life when my SAD symptoms were almost nonexistent was the one when I ran outdoors every morning, bundled up and often in Yaktrax. Actually typing this is reminding me to get back in the habit of walking first thing, so thank you! 

If he's willing and able to go out for a short walk or jog in the morning, I really think it's worth waking up 10-15 minutes earlier. Do you have a dog, by any chance, and could your son be the early morning walker?

I also think fish oil helps me--I like Carlson Fish Oil with Orange. Well, like is too strong a word. Not too objectionable is more like it 🙂 

[wintermom]

Do you see when/if the mood suddenly improves? Are allergies a possible source? I'm asking because I have a similar pattern of drastic moods changes, anxiety, insomnia, health problems/symptoms in the fall that suddenly improve by December when there have been a couple solid frosts and/or snow. My dr has tried to pin it all on menopause (after ruling out loads of other possibilities), but the fact that the pattern stops as suddenly as it starts makes me suspect allergies.

It's very unsettling. Hope you all figure out the cause soon. 

[MEmama]

32 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Timing matters for getting outside. Going out first thing in the morning (after sunrise, even if it's cloudy) helps me immensely. I can't recall the exact physiology--something to do with resetting our internal clocks or melatonin? The only winter in my adult l life when my SAD symptoms were almost nonexistent was the one when I ran outdoors every morning, bundled up and often in Yaktrax. Actually typing this is reminding me to get back in the habit of walking first thing, so thank you! 

If he's willing and able to go out for a short walk or jog in the morning, I really think it's worth waking up 10-15 minutes earlier. Do you have a dog, by any chance, and could your son be the early morning walker?

I also think fish oil helps me--I like Carlson Fish Oil with Orange. Well, like is too strong a word. Not too objectionable is more like it 🙂 

I find early morning light helpful too. Unfortunately it’s still pretty dark when his first classes start so before school won’t work for him. I did set the happy light next to his laptop; I think for mornings it’s the best we can do.

May I ask what the fish oil provides that is helpful? Vitamin d? Are omegas helpful? He is open to supplementing but other than D I’m clueless.

[MEmama]

13 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Do you see when/if the mood suddenly improves? Are allergies a possible source? I'm asking because I have a similar pattern of drastic moods changes, anxiety, insomnia, health problems/symptoms in the fall that suddenly improve by December when there have been a couple solid frosts and/or snow. My dr has tried to pin it all on menopause (after ruling out loads of other possibilities), but the fact that the pattern stops as suddenly as it starts makes me suspect allergies.

It's very unsettling. Hope you all figure out the cause soon. 

I don’t think it’s allergies for him because this pattern starts after our first frosts/freezes, which typically marks the end of allergy season for us. Usually right around the beginning of second quarter of school.
 

Yours symptoms do sound like they could be allergy related—how annoying that your doctor assumes menopause, as though women can’t be affected by anything else. Grrr.

Good luck to you, too! I hope you can source the cause of your misery. Flonase is our go-to seasonal allergy medication, but of course it might not work for you. 

[ScoutTN]

1 hour ago, Ditto said:

It sounds like you guys are doing all the right things.     I wonder if it is time to talk to his pediatrician and maybe a low dose antidepressant for the winter months?  I am not sure if they are used for just the winter months or not, but throwing it out there in case it is an option you want to explore.

I am now taking Wellbutrin for SAD and it does seem to help. Not sure if it is receommended for teens, but perhaps worth investigating.

[wintermom]

1 minute ago, MEmama said:

I don’t think it’s allergies for him because this pattern starts after our first frosts/freezes, which typically marks the end of allergy season for us. Usually right around the beginning of second quarter of school.
 

Yours symptoms do sound like they could be allergy related—how annoying that your doctor assumes menopause, as though women can’t be affected by anything else. Grrr.

Good luck to you, too! I hope you can source the cause of your misery. Flonase is our go-to seasonal allergy medication, but of course it might not work for you. 

Back in my youth, I wrote a song called "November Blues." 😉 It's a tough time of year for us northerners. The daylight hours are so few and the quality of the sunshine is different. Add in that damp, humid cold of the east and who wouldn't be depressed and miserable. I think the best fix would be to travel south for a few weeks, but those of us who can't do that just have to make do as best we can. In Scandinavia, they use a lot of 'living light' sources, like candles, to help make things more cheerful. It works better for me than electric light.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I've had numerous years where I started to feel extra draggy and tired around early November. When it started happening again last year, I got more consistent in taking my vitamin D. NuMedica Micellized Vitamin D3 is the first type that ever seemed to help me feel better (in general, not just in the fall). When I take it, I take about 7-10,000 IUs. It ended the seasonal fatigue for me.

[Acadie]

47 minutes ago, MEmama said:

May I ask what the fish oil provides that is helpful? Vitamin d? Are omegas helpful? He is open to supplementing but other than D I’m clueless.

Yes, essential fatty acids. I've seen fish oil recommended for SAD, and when I look at the diets of Native peoples of the north and Nordic countries where days are so short I think it's no accident that they're high in essential fatty acids. I don't know a whole lot about balancing omega-3s and 6s but like to go with natural food sources when possible.

Does his D supplement also have K2? I've heard it helps absorb the D. 

[KungFuPanda]

What is his daily schedule like? This pandemic has made sleeping in all too easy. If you only get 8 hours of light and you’re sleeping through 4 of them, you can inadvertently make a tough situation even tougher. 

[MEmama]

35 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Back in my youth, I wrote a song called "November Blues." 😉 It's a tough time of year for us northerners. The daylight hours are so few and the quality of the sunshine is different. Add in that damp, humid cold of the east and who wouldn't be depressed and miserable. I think the best fix would be to travel south for a few weeks, but those of us who can't do that just have to make do as best we can. In Scandinavia, they use a lot of 'living light' sources, like candles, to help make things more cheerful. It works better for me than electric light.

One year we went to Florida in February. I had tons of energy there but the worst crash when we got home. I vowed to never do that to myself again! Lol. The effect was *amazing*.

[MEmama]

46 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Touching on a few points already made...

The 10K lux light is a lifesaver for me. But timing is important - it should be done before about 9am and for no longer than a half hour (starting with 15 min and building up to that). Later/longer timing may interfere with nighttime sleep. 
 

Agreeing with outdoor time! Vigorous is great BUT just getting out even if it’s leisurely is still important. I loathe being cold, so this is hard for me  I imagine being in Maine, you have the clothing needs figured out  

As for antidepressants - I suggest trying diet first. SAD causes carb cravings, as the body strives to produce seratonin (just read a fascinating article about this as it relates to SAD, I will link if I can refind it). That can drive one into a sugar crash spiral. So trying to stick to a mostly lower carb diet with lots of fruits, vegetables, nuts and lean protein, with the EXCEPTION of adding potatoes in the afternoon/early evening, really helps. I make a lot of soups and freeze in single serve portions for easy daytime eating to get these good foods in. Avoiding too many carbs is helpful for anyone struggling with depression; for SAD sufferers it’s harder because the cravings are stronger. But that sugar crash is inevitable with overloading. Potatoes stimulate seratonin which enables better sleep and better sense of well being (might want to look up an older book titled Potatoes, Not Prozac). I’d not be excessively restrictive - comfort food is a real thing - but have on hand lots of healthy alternatives and don’t be tempted to default to high carb snacks all the time. Diet is important. 

Stay hydrated. It’s harder to get in enough water when it’s cold and dark, we crave other things instead. Dehydration is sneaky and can masquerade as other things. I fill a huge Nalgene bottle each morning and strive to finish my daily ounces by dinner time.!

regentrude, I am fascinated by the mention of coffee as an antidepressant. I’ve been trying to switch to green tea but happily brewed a cup of joe this morning after reading your post! I have been experimenting with what I need with regard to caffeine levels. Personally, I need a little hit in the morning, but after that I have to go decaf. Because if I don’t, it interrupts my sleep and a night of insomnia just messes with everything else. 

I also take a minimum of 5000iu Vit D3 each morning (more if my doc prescribes a bolus dose), plus essential fatty acids (fish/flax oil). These things have proven good for my immunity and mood stability.

I also love the suggestion to move office/schooling work to the dark hours. Yes, to maximize outdoor hours. But also - and this is weird - to me, it’s ok that it’s dark at night. It’s supposed to be dark at night, kwim? I can be down all day when the sun isn’t shining, but after about 7pm I can feel fine. Because it’s supposed to be dark at 7pm. Don’t know if that makes sense. Anyway, scheduling some desk work with good lighting (not lux but bright) between 4 and 6pm, when the light is fading but I can’t bear to see it fade - distracts me from the fact that the day is too short. Then dinner, and hopefully a little stretching or just dance on the switch before settling down with a bedtime routine (shower, reading, a movie). 
 

These are things I’ve learned as I’ve navigated SAD. HTH. It’s a beast, in large part because others often don’t take it seriously. I had to come home from a doctor’s appointment with a written Rx for a happy light before dh would not brush me off on this issue (despite a few years of my med- field dc telling me that’s what I had and needed to treat it). 
 

 

Thank you! This is all so helpful.

Daytime light here starts to fade in early afternoon, by 4 it’s really dark. It’s tough to stay motivated in the afternoon hours for sure. 

It sounds like boosting his vitamin D and adding in fish or flax oil is a good idea. His diet is pretty good—we are mostly vegetarian but we eat fish (mostly wild salmon) and a bit of chicken. I’ll watch those carbs, he does eat like a teenager after all. Lol. He’s open to eating any and all foods except red meat. 

[MEmama]

46 minutes ago, JumpyTheFrog said:

I've had numerous years where I started to feel extra draggy and tired around early November. When it started happening again last year, I got more consistent in taking my vitamin D. NuMedica Micellized Vitamin D3 is the first type that ever seemed to help me feel better (in general, not just in the fall). When I take it, I take about 7-10,000 IUs. It ended the seasonal fatigue for me.

Thanks for the recommendation. That’s waaay more vitamin d than he takes now so it sounds like I need to increase the amount.

[MEmama]

22 minutes ago, Acadie said:

Yes, essential fatty acids. I've seen fish oil recommended for SAD, and when I look at the diets of Native peoples of the north and Nordic countries where days are so short I think it's no accident that they're high in essential fatty acids. I don't know a whole lot about balancing omega-3s and 6s but like to go with natural food sources when possible.

Does his D supplement also have K2? I've heard it helps absorb the D. 

That makes a lot of sense re fatty acids. I’ll do more research into how I can increase amounts in his diet. Thanks.

[MEmama]

14 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

What is his daily schedule like? This pandemic has made sleeping in all too easy. If you only get 8 hours of light and you’re sleeping through 4 of them, you can inadvertently make a tough situation even tougher. 

He actually sleeps really well and has a consistent schedule. Usually asleep by 10/10:30 and up at 7. I’m a huge believer in the healing power of sleep. 

[KungFuPanda]

5 minutes ago, MEmama said:

He actually sleeps really well and has a consistent schedule. Usually asleep by 10/10:30 and up at 7. I’m a huge believer in the healing power of sleep. 

I, too, am a big believer in sleep and his schedule looks optimal for catching ALL of the daylight available. Even though I’m personally dedicated to getting my 8-9 hours per night, I’m not always up with the sun. Standard time is my nemesis and I hate moving the clocks back. 

[Scarlett]

21 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Thank you! This is all so helpful.

Daytime light here starts to fade in early afternoon, by 4 it’s really dark. It’s tough to stay motivated in the afternoon hours for sure. 

It sounds like boosting his vitamin D and adding in fish or flax oil is a good idea. His diet is pretty good—we are mostly vegetarian but we eat fish (mostly wild salmon) and a bit of chicken. I’ll watch those carbs, he does eat like a teenager after all. Lol. He’s open to eating any and all foods except red meat. 

I was going to suggested check his Vit D levels too.  My get low in the winter and are very low by Feb. so I have learned to suppplement....I just realized I have not been with all the other stuff going on.  Anyway, it makes a big difference to me.  

[KungFuPanda]

3 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Same here! I can basically mark the calendar for the onset of my SAD kicking in. The fall time change kicked my fanny especially hard this year in particular.
 

If it’s dark in the morning, it’s harder to get going but in a way I feel like a superhero for rising before dawn, then there’s sunlight for a time after the workday obligations are met. Back in standard time, I feel like I got robbed. 

As if the pandemic wasn’t bad enough, how ‘bout we add 4-something-p.m. sunsets to the pile? Ugh. Just a few more weeks then day length can start creeping back up. 

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

LOL winter solstice is a celebration day for me, not as a religious thing, but as a yay-now-the-days-get-longer thing! It is starred on my calendar!

Same with me!

 

[MEmama]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

LOL winter solstice is a celebration day for me, not as a religious thing, but as a yay-now-the-days-get-longer thing! It is starred on my calendar!

Seriously, though, SAD is the icing on the cake. I do see hope, though, with vaccine rollouts beginning. I know things won’t be over in a flash, that it will take time, but I am choosing to make the correlation between lengthening days and growing in hope that we are also moving towards the lessening of the pandemic. 
 

But yeah, some brilliant legislator would have earned my eternal loyalty if one had simply introduced a bill saying, hey, let’s skip that time change thing this fall. 

Me too! The solstice is a true celebration. Bring back the light! I also put frowny  faces on the time change day in November. Lol

Every year it seems like some Power That Be or another attempts to get rid of standard time. I think there’s a slow moving idea in New England to abolish it but no one ever seems brave enough to just make it happen. (Yeah, yeah I know it’s not simple. But it’s a true annoyance that simply doesn’t have to exist.)

[TravelingChris]

55 minutes ago, MEmama said:

One year we went to Florida in February. I had tons of energy there but the worst crash when we got home. I vowed to never do that to myself again! Lol. The effect was *amazing*.

The absolute worse SAD effect most of my family had, me included, was when we moved from Florida to Northern VA  a few days before Christmas.  I thought the cold would be my problem.  NO- it was the darkness.

[KungFuPanda]

14 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

LOL winter solstice is a celebration day for me, not as a religious thing, but as a yay-now-the-days-get-longer thing! It is starred on my calendar!

Seriously, though, SAD is the icing on the cake. I do see hope, though, with vaccine rollouts beginning. I know things won’t be over in a flash, that it will take time, but I am choosing to make the correlation between lengthening days and growing in hope that we are also moving towards the lessening of the pandemic. 
 

But yeah, some brilliant legislator would have earned my eternal loyalty if one had simply introduced a bill saying, hey, let’s skip that time change thing this fall. 

You can sign my petition! It demands permanent DST.  It also asks that a full month be subtracted from winter and given to summer. Two months is PLENTY of time for winter to do its thing. I haven’t quite worked out the science on this . . . 

[TravelingChris]

28 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Same here! I can basically mark the calendar for the onset of my SAD kicking in. The fall time change kicked my fanny especially hard this year in particular.
 

If it’s dark in the morning, it’s harder to get going but in a way I feel like a superhero for rising before dawn, then there’s sunlight for a time after the workday obligations are met. Back in standard time, I feel like I got robbed. 

Same here

[KungFuPanda]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

The absolute worse SAD effect most of my family had, me included, was when we moved from Florida to Northern VA  a few days before Christmas.  I thought the cold would be my problem.  NO- it was the darkness.

It took me YEARS to figure this out. I think it finally clicked that year it rained in MD 48% of the year and many of the non-rainy days were cloudy. I don’t get emotionally sad; I just feel like I’m a bit foggy and in slow motion. (I read a lot more books that year.) That’s the year I realized that I am a solar powered person. My nature defaults to fairly energetic so getting things done was a challenge when my natural perkiness subsided. I had to rely on self-discipline and that’s not my best mode of operation. 🤣

[Pam in CT]

re "living light" sources

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

Back in my youth, I wrote a song called "November Blues." 😉 It's a tough time of year for us northerners. The daylight hours are so few and the quality of the sunshine is different. Add in that damp, humid cold of the east and who wouldn't be depressed and miserable. I think the best fix would be to travel south for a few weeks, but those of us who can't do that just have to make do as best we can. In Scandinavia, they use a lot of 'living light' sources, like candles, to help make things more cheerful. It works better for me than electric light.

Of the many good ideas above, this is the *one thing* I've never tried - thank you.

 

It's hard to be persuaded that any one thing really helps; there are too many variables so it's not a controlled experiment. That said, I *feel* like I've been modestly helped over the years by

• Vitamin D
• Lightbox (unlike many pp, I try to time it so I'm using it at the *end* of the natural light cycle, which right now around here is ~4:20, so I do it with a cuppa mint tea)
• Caffeine in the morning, hard cut-off at 10:30 am
• Forcing myself to Go Outside and Stay There for at least ~20 minutes even when the idea is excruciating (TBH I do not always succeed on this one, discipline-wise)
• Forcing myself to get some kind of daily cardio exercise (TBH I'm often substituting indoor elliptical or, in the BeforeTimes, an IRL class, for outdoors, on this, but, see below re: forgiveness)
• Forcing myself to get up early enough that I'm awake for every single moment of natural light
• Hard in-bed-lights-off by midnight, no exceptions

But the other thing that has, for me, been absolutely essential to my longterm mental health is to forgive myself for having this condition.  To accept that my energy levels will be lower from November-February. To plan that I'll be less productive and organized, and therefore to take less on during that time, to scale back commitments, in particular (back in the BeforeTimes) commitments that require me to drive out in the dark to things that *start* well after dark. Because I just don't want to.

This was my Great Realization: It's OK to try to plan the chronology of a year around the time *I know I'll have less to give.*  I'll host Passover, y'all do Thanksgiving, okay?  It's OK to defer time-consuming, physically demanding tasks like stripping wallpaper/ clearing out the basement out to spirng, when I know from hard-won experience I'll have more oomph to complete them.  It's OK to declare November-February the "cozy" time, fit only for knitting and reading and Netflix, a time to be endured until the light returns.

I honestly think that has helped more than anything else.  Letting go of the frame that "this is weakness" and accepting instead that "this is how I'm designed, find a way to live within that design." 

[Amy Gen]

My 22 year old started experiencing SAD when she went to college in Oregon. She would just fall completely apart during the winter quarter. 
 

A couple have things have helped. She takes 10,000 IUs of D and drinks a coffee we call pharmaceutical grade. A friend roasts it for us. I don’t know the details, but my friend has struggled with depression since I met him in 7th grade. This coffee is what he uses to lift it. 
 

Dd has a light but she left it in her storage unit. She is doing great this quarter despite the pandemic. We live in a cool but sunny little section of California, so she does her work in the breakfast nook where there are windows on all sides. Her therapist put her on a low dose of Zoloft. Lexapro caused stomach issues, but she tolerates Zoloft well. 
 

We always swim outside 3 times a week, but sometimes we are able to get enough lane space to swim 6 times a week. That is when she feels her best. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, swimming is at 6:00 am instead of being in the afternoon. She looks forward to those days because when we get home, she is so energized and gets so much accomplished. 
 

Her friends are all having a hard time managing finals week, but Dd is sailing through finishing finals early and making great grades. I’m super thankful that this multi pronged approach is effective for her, but she wants to start applying for jobs back in Oregon so it may return full force when she moves.  

 

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, Pam in CT said:

re "living light" sources

Of the many good ideas above, this is the *one thing* I've never tried - thank you.

 

It's hard to be persuaded that any one thing really helps; there are too many variables so it's not a controlled experiment. That said, I *feel* like I've been modestly helped over the years by

• Vitamin D
• Lightbox (unlike many pp, I try to time it so I'm using it at the *end* of the natural light cycle, which right now around here is ~4:20, so I do it with a cuppa mint tea)
• Caffeine in the morning, hard cut-off at 10:30 am
• Forcing myself to Go Outside and Stay There for at least ~20 minutes even when the idea is excruciating (TBH I do not always succeed on this one, discipline-wise)
• Forcing myself to get some kind of daily cardio exercise (TBH I'm often substituting indoor elliptical or, in the BeforeTimes, an IRL class, for outdoors, on this, but, see below re: forgiveness)
• Forcing myself to get up early enough that I'm awake for every single moment of natural light
• Hard in-bed-lights-off by midnight, no exceptions

But the other thing that has, for me, been absolutely essential to my longterm mental health is to forgive myself for having this condition.  To accept that my energy levels will be lower from November-February. To plan that I'll be less productive and organized, and therefore to take less on during that time, to scale back commitments, in particular (back in the BeforeTimes) commitments that require me to drive out in the dark to things that *start* well after dark. Because I just don't want to.

This was my Great Realization: It's OK to try to plan the chronology of a year around the time *I know I'll have less to give.*  I'll host Passover, y'all do Thanksgiving, okay?  It's OK to defer time-consuming, physically demanding tasks like stripping wallpaper/ clearing out the basement out to spirng, when I know from hard-won experience I'll have more oomph to complete them.  It's OK to declare November-February the "cozy" time, fit only for knitting and reading and Netflix, a time to be endured until the light returns.

I honestly think that has helped more than anything else.  Letting go of the frame that "this is weakness" and accepting instead that "this is how I'm designed, find a way to live within that design." 

I rather like the idea of just leaning into the coziness (or whatever descriptive vocabulary Nordic people use.) I kind of enjoy thinking of it as a season of planned down time and not a 'diagnosis.' This gives me permission to plan lower energy activities when I know I won't be running at top speed and embrace it as a natural season instead of a defect.

[Pen]

Also B vitamins especially B12

 

5 Tweaks You Can Make to Your Diet to Help Combat Seasonal Affective ...

Mar 21, 2018 — ... suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), this change in hours of ... Minerals such as chromium, iodine, iron, selenium, magnesium, and ...

and possibly helpful is to look at information from other far North and gloomy parts of world like: https://www.justvitamins.co.uk/blog/supplements-to-help-beat-seasonal-affective-disorder-sad/

I have a friend in Oregon with SAD who went into landscape type business so as to be able to be outdoors while working much of every day, most of year ... a couple hours wasn’t enough 

 

full spectrum incandescent “daylight” light bulbs in rooms he is in may help as regular lighting, not just special short use light therapy

Bright light colors,  clothes, surroundings...

reflecting surfaces like mirrors to maximize what outside light there is

get any curtains on windows to outdoors daylight opened at first dawn if possible 

greet the day Yoga etc type exercises 

[JumpyTheFrog]

3 hours ago, MEmama said:

Thanks for the recommendation. That’s waaay more vitamin d than he takes now so it sounds like I need to increase the amount.

He could try a bolus dose (say 50,000 IUs) in a day and then 5-10,000 IUs daily. If it helps, I think he'd see results in 3-4 weeks.

[ktgrok]

Happy light must be within 18-24 inches of the eyes. For 30 minutes. 

Most people react best with it in the AM. A very few (but a teen might be in that category) do better in the afternoon. Make sure you are using it close enought o the face, for long enough, before trying a different time of day. 

Exercise - it helps, but only specific exercise. (for me).  After trying EVERYTHING over the course of 3 years of SAD, what actually helps me is 15 minutes of cardio, set to music, in the morning. Actually, right before lunch seems to be optimal. I do a Walk at Home video on youtube every day. It is VERY obvious when I skip it. Other forms of exercise, like just going for a walk, doing more strength training, yoga, etc do not have the same effect. Workouts longer than 30 minutes made it worse. So yeah, 15 minutes every day, around 11am, I do a walk at home video. For whatever reason, that boosts my mood and energy the way other exercise doesn't. 

I also do yoga in the afternoon or evening, which helps with my sleep at night. But the days I do yoga in the morning and the walk at home later in the day I don't do as well, mood wise or energy wise. 

And that foggy feeling sucks - i used to say it was like my coffee was broken, lol. 

[wintermom]

Did anyone mentioned dark chocolate to help fight the winter blues? Lindt is my favourite, and I'm loving the Intense Mint for the tangy flavour. It's great with peppermint tea, too. 😉  

I've also put up LOTS of outdoor lights in the front and backyard this fall/winter. They will stay up all winter. I put mostly soft white LEDs and they will be really nice to keep up when everyone stops turning on their Christmas lights. 

[ktgrok]

11 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Did anyone mentioned dark chocolate to help fight the winter blues? Lindt is my favourite, and I'm loving the Intense Mint for the tangy flavour. It's great with peppermint tea, too. 😉  

I've also put up LOTS of outdoor lights in the front and backyard this fall/winter. They will stay up all winter. I put mostly soft white LEDs and they will be really nice to keep up when everyone stops turning on their Christmas lights. 

I was literally eating a square of lindt dark chocolate as I read this, lol. (with a tablespoon of peanuts). 

I haven't tried the mint! Lindt is my favorite. 

[ktgrok]

I do find turning on brighter lights in the house helps, during the day. 

[regentrude]

5 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

But the other thing that has, for me, been absolutely essential to my longterm mental health is to forgive myself for having this condition.  To accept that my energy levels will be lower from November-February. To plan that I'll be less productive and organized, and therefore to take less on during that time, to scale back commitments, in particular (back in the BeforeTimes) commitments that require me to drive out in the dark to things that *start* well after dark.

Just for different perspective: For me, the bolded would make me even more depressed. I am energized by activity, and when I have SAD,  it's never that I don't have the energy to do things - it's that life seems purposeless. The worst thing about winter, to me, is everybody crawling into their hole and hibernating, and there aren't as many things to do. (Like the entire pandemic, right)
I am wondering: could this be a difference between extroverts and introverts, Pam? (In case nobody has noticed: I am an extreme extrovert who medicates with people)

Edited December 8, 2020 by regentrude

[wintermom]

11 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Just for different perspective: For me, the bolded would make me even more depressed. I am energized by activity, and when I have SAD,  it's never that I don't have the energy to do things - it's that life seems purposeless. The worst thing about winter, to me, is everybody crawling into their hole and hibernating, and there aren't as many things to do. (Like the entire pandemic, right)
I am wondering: could this be a difference between extroverts and introverts, Pam? (In case nobody has noticed: I am an extreme extrovert who medicates with people)

Maybe you could look for alternative activities for winter. Climbing might be modified, or perhaps look for places to climb on ice. There may be fewer things to do in winter, but what is available can be thrilling. Here's a photo from my hike today. No snow for skiing or snowshoeing, then let's hike! Ds and I had one of our most exciting hikes today, Dec. 8th. Who would have thought? 😉

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by wintermom

[regentrude]

22 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Maybe you could look for alternative activities for winter. Climbing might be modified, or perhaps look for places to climb on ice. There may be fewer things to do in winter, but what is available can be thrilling. Here's a photo from my hike today. No snow for skiing or snowshoeing, then let's hike! Ds and I had one of our most exciting hikes today, Dec. 8th. Who would have thought? 😉

Oh, we do get outside and hike. A lot. Winter is prime hiking season here. I was more thinking of doing things with people. People tend to hibernate - even if DH and I are happy hiking in single digit temps.

Edited December 8, 2020 by regentrude

[Pam in CT]

re SAD affecting introverts v extroverts differently

35 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Just for different perspective: For me, the bolded would make me even more depressed. I am energized by activity, and when I have SAD,  it's never that I don't have the energy to do things - it's that life seems purposeless. The worst thing about winter, to me, is everybody crawling into their hole and hibernating, and there aren't as many things to do. (Like the entire pandemic, right)
I am wondering: could this be a difference between extroverts and introverts, Pam? (In case nobody has noticed: I am an extreme extrovert who medicates with people)

That is interesting; for all that I've thought about SAD, I've never considered this aspect.  For me, SAD manifests as a drain of *physical* energy, not so much psychic... but the two are intertwined, aren't they; and how we experience "energy" itself could be a function of intro- v extro-version.

If we take the definition of intro- v extro- as how do we refuel, through contact with other people or by time alone, it makes good sense that we'd experience "loss of energy" differently.

By this definition I am an introvert, despite how much I cherish family and friends and enjoy time spent with them (and desperately miss that contact, during COVID).  But after a big event -- even if I don't host it or organize it or otherwise sweat the logistics -- I need a full day ALL BY MYSELF.

 

(( I am so sorry you're feeling life is purposeless. ))  That is a lot, on top of all the plagues 2020 has thrown.

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re SAD affecting introverts v extroverts differently

That is interesting; for all that I've thought about SAD, I've never considered this aspect.  For me, SAD manifests as a drain of *physical* energy, not so much psychic... but the two are intertwined, aren't they; and how we experience "energy" itself could be a function of intro- v extro-version.

If we take the definition of intro- v extro- as how do we refuel, through contact with other people or by time alone, it makes good sense that we'd experience "loss of energy" differently.

By this definition I am an introvert, despite how much I cherish family and friends and enjoy time spent with them (and desperately miss that contact, during COVID).  But after a big event -- even if I don't host it or organize it or otherwise sweat the logistics -- I need a full day ALL BY MYSELF.

(( I am so sorry you're feeling life is purposeless. ))  That is a lot, on top of all the plagues 2020 has thrown.

Thanks - right now I am actually feeling surprisingly well which I can only attribute to my very sunny workspace, because otherwise I have no reason to be less depressed this winter than in previous ones 🙂

For me, people are energizing. I love hosting parties, dinners, get-togethers of all kinds and sizes and it makes me feel energized and alive. I rarely have the experience of being "peopled out" - only when I am hosting a big event and then attend several others right afterwards. 
For me, SAD manifests in feeling emotionally tired and drained, and people would be the surest way to recharge. I never feel like not wanting to go out to an event, LOL.

I think that's precisely the definition of extro vs introvert: what energizes a person. It is a common misconception that introverts are shy/don't like to be with people/don't enjoy parties etc. The introverts in my family are perfectly able to socialize and find joy in it - but as you describe, they need time alone to recharge. The extroverts OTOH are perfectly capable of being in solitude and finding things to do by themselves - but they need people to recharge.

[Acadie]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

Just for different perspective: For me, the bolded would make me even more depressed. I am energized by activity, and when I have SAD,  it's never that I don't have the energy to do things - it's that life seems purposeless. The worst thing about winter, to me, is everybody crawling into their hole and hibernating, and there aren't as many things to do. (Like the entire pandemic, right)
I am wondering: could this be a difference between extroverts and introverts, Pam? (In case nobody has noticed: I am an extreme extrovert who medicates with people)

Thank you!!! The idea of an extreme extrovert medicating with people resonates with dd18, who is struggling being home after her first semester of college.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Just for different perspective: For me, the bolded would make me even more depressed. I am energized by activity, and when I have SAD,  it's never that I don't have the energy to do things - it's that life seems purposeless. The worst thing about winter, to me, is everybody crawling into their hole and hibernating, and there aren't as many things to do. (Like the entire pandemic, right)
I am wondering: could this be a difference between extroverts and introverts, Pam? (In case nobody has noticed: I am an extreme extrovert who medicates with people)

Definitely must be. Even being around my own family is too many people in winter. I'd be totally content to just curl up in bed with a book until the sun comes back. 

Actually, going back to the other post, about giving oneself permission, and your idea of recharging...maybe I just SHOULD spend some time doing that!

[ScoutTN]

3 hours ago, wintermom said:

Did anyone mentioned dark chocolate to help fight the winter blues? Lindt is my favourite, and I'm loving the Intense Mint for the tangy flavour. It's great with peppermint tea, too. 😉  

I've also put up LOTS of outdoor lights in the front and backyard this fall/winter. They will stay up all winter. I put mostly soft white LEDs and they will be really nice to keep up when everyone stops turning on their Christmas lights. 

For those who cannot have sugar, Lily's chocolate is a good substitute!

[TravelingChris]

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I do find turning on brighter lights in the house helps, during the day. 

Oh yes,   I turn on so many lights in our house.  Dh used to complain but since he has been working at home, he really hasn't.  

[KungFuPanda]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

Oh, we do get outside and hike. A lot. Winter is prime hiking season here. I was more thinking of doing things with people. People tend to hibernate - even if DH and I are happy hiking in single digit temps.

Single-digit hikes?  I never once considered myself a fair-weather friend until this post.  I am literally, exactly that.  If it's below 40 I am nobody's hiking buddy.  I "might" be able to psych myself up for a walk around the block if I wear long-johns, but all bets are off when you hit the 30s.

[wintermom]

14 hours ago, regentrude said:

Oh, we do get outside and hike. A lot. Winter is prime hiking season here. I was more thinking of doing things with people. People tend to hibernate - even if DH and I are happy hiking in single digit temps.

Seek out the people who don't 'hibernate' if you need people. Or build your own little group.  My social groups these days consist of people who are active in either tennis, cycling, skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, walking (with and without our dogs). People who are active in one area, are often active in multiple areas. We're not competitive, we socialize while we doing our activity. 

[ScoutTN]

13 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Seek out the people who don't 'hibernate' if you need people. Or build your own little group.  My social groups these days consist of people who are active in either tennis, cycling, skiing, snowshoeing, hiking, walking (with and without our dogs). People who are active in one area, are often active in multiple areas. We're not competitive, we socialize while we doing our activity. 

I have made a couple new friends walking/hiking in a local park (huge natural area, not a playground type park). I go at the same day and time, so I regularly see others with asimilar schedule.