Dating: guy picking up tab

[hjffkj]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

I'd argue that if he was that mature he wouldn't be attracted to a child who is in no way his equal.  I'm not saying he wouldn't find her attractive or charming or cute, but I don't think a mature person would be attracted to a child as a spouse.  It's not normal, it's creepy.

And if we're talking about the 17 year old being mature for her age then if she doesn't realize why a 17/27 relationship isn't a power difference, then she isn't actually as mature as she thinks IMHO.

[Katy]

Just now, Scarlett said:

Ok well,you are making my point, that she is a child.  And she would be a child regardless of whether the boy/man was 18 or 28.  So two children getting together is better than a child and an adult?

Yes, because there isn't a power differential between two children.

[hjffkj]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Ok well,you are making my point, that she is a child.  And she would be a child regardless of whether the boy/man was 18 or 28.  So two children getting together is better than a child and an adult?

because two minors are on the same playing field in terms of life experience, stage of life, brain development, etc.  

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

because two minors are on the same playing field in terms of life experience, stage of life, brain development, etc.  

I just don’t see how that is better.  

[Melissa in Australia]

8 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I am sorry I even said anything in this thread because it was a total t/j.  But I don’t think most 17 year olds know themselves yet to know what kind of mate they want.  Or how to discern various people and situations.  Of course exceptions abound.  

??????

 

many many people met the person they married and lived with for the rest of their life in their late teens.

 it is a pretty modern thing for  late start in relationships

 I myself was married at 18, my mother at 16, my grandmother and her mother at 18

 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Melissa in Australia said:

??????

 

many many people met the person they married and lived with for the rest of their life in their late teens.

 it is a pretty modern thing for  late start in relationships

 I myself was married at 18, my mother at 16, my grandmother and her mother at 18

 

I would say that 18 is very very different than 16.  And anecdotal doesn’t equal data.

[Katy]

Just now, Scarlett said:

I just don’t see how that is better.  

When there is a power difference the one with less power is likely to be abused.  This doesn't have to be big, obvious abuse.  It could be as minor as over-controlling in minor ways, financial abuse, taking the younger person for granted because they lack power, or even the older cheating on the younger.

[Scarlett]

Just now, Katy said:

When there is a power difference the one with less power is likely to be abused.  This doesn't have to be big, obvious abuse.  It could be as minor as over-controlling in minor ways, financial abuse, taking the younger person for granted because they lack power, or even the older cheating on the younger.

Your Points are valid.  Do you really think though that the biggest problem is when one party is young vs another not! Because if those things were going to be a problem, they would be a problem regardless 

[Katy]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Your Points are valid.  Do you really think though that the biggest problem is when one party is young vs another not! Because if those things were going to be a problem, they would be a problem regardless 

Yes, I think the age difference is likely to be a problem even if she was 25 when they met.  Not to the same degree because by that time she'd have a much more defined sense of self and probably some boundaries. And I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule.  But for the most part with age differences of that degree the younger frequently defers to the older IME.  Which isn't the case at all of couples within a few years of each other.

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

But her parents would have had to sign whether the husband was 18 or 27.  

Yes. I think it is a mistake to sign in either case, but a much bigger mistake to sign in the husband is 27. 

13 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I just don’t see how that is better.  

I agree with Katy about the power deferential, and I think it's very likely to persist in a marriage when the younger person was a minor - because they will never have the experience of being an adult who is making decisions on their own. They have that right as they come of age, but ime still have the tendency to defer and to not feel their own power. 

And I do think it's very difficult for the older person to not abuse the power they have, even if it doesn't lead to outright abuse of the person. Are they going to encourage their young bride to pursue a job they're interested in, or further education that they want, when they know it's going to change the power dynamic? That's not the reason they're going to give, but it's a reason that's going to exist for sure. 

[IfIOnly]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

And so I come back to 15, 16, 17, year old is not mature enough to make a decision about romance, dating, marriage.  Whether her date is her age or 10 years older...she isn't mature enough.  

17 is, but 18 isn't? 

I don't have all of the answers, but what I do know is that I'm not going hurt my relationship with my kids by not respecting and supporting them as they navigate romantic relationships. I'm not afraid to say things that I believe they need to consider either. That's not good parenting.  But my guys talk openly and honestly with me about this topic generally and more personally. I think it's because I've always listened and treated them with interest and respect, even if I did ultimately encourage them to focus on friendship for a time because of their age or whatever. 

[Wheres Toto]

7 hours ago, Katy said:

When there is a power difference the one with less power is likely to be abused.  This doesn't have to be big, obvious abuse.  It could be as minor as over-controlling in minor ways, financial abuse, taking the younger person for granted because they lack power, or even the older cheating on the younger.

 

7 hours ago, Katy said:

Yes, I think the age difference is likely to be a problem even if she was 25 when they met.  Not to the same degree because by that time she'd have a much more defined sense of self and probably some boundaries. And I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule.  But for the most part with age differences of that degree the younger frequently defers to the older IME.  Which isn't the case at all of couples within a few years of each other.

This was a big part of the problem in my first marriage and I wasn't a minor when we started dating I was 19, he was 27.  Almost 22 and 30 when married.   The difference in life experience, the feeling in charge because of age/experience, were definitely a problem. 

Dh is 13 years older than me but we were 35 and 48 when we got married.   We have none of those issues.   Now I do think personality contributes as well because we've had other "power differentials" in our relationship (mostly financial), but dh is much more laid-back than ex.  

I personally am not a fan of early marriage.  I've always encouraged dd to get her degree before getting married.  I would have supported her with what ever decision she made, but she also understood why I felt that way.  

[wintermom]

On 12/3/2020 at 11:36 PM, IfIOnly said:

All I can say is they're both mature for their age and seem to be doing a great job navigating their interest in one another. Dating at this age isn't something we've encouraged, but they're also both close enough to being legal adults that it's not like they're children either. 

Not to be snarky, but if they are both mature for their age and 'close enough to being legal adults,' then they are 'nearly financially independent' as well, right?. So let them figure it out.

Are they actually asking for your input, or are you simply curious about what other people are doing these days? My sense would be that teens living at home and working have money to spend on non-essentials. Hopefully they are also saving and planning for future essentials. How they spend their money is their business. I wouldn't fund their dates, though, but that's my reality. I'm sure that there are people who do pick up the tab for their teens' social lives.