Sometimes I want a 5th kid, but I'm already 40.

[Tap]

35 minutes ago, rebcoola said:

This the stories are almost all about my siblings babysitting me.  I was 12 yrs younger so it was a big difference. 

My mom doesn't understand this one. She will talk about how much fun my sisters had taking me places. But, she forgets that they were paid to do those things. They were babysitting me and they quite often were not happy about it! I wasn't hanging out with them as an equal. LOL 

[EmilyGF]

24 minutes ago, Tap said:

Since you have tons of love and support....I offer a counter thought.

I am the baby of the family.  I was raised with 4 other kids who are 6-12 years older than I am. My mom had 4 ( living ) kids in 6 years. (The 5th child, who was in the middle of the pack, passed right after birth).  

I was basically an only child, who grew up being left out. I was too young for everything they were doing (games, activities etc) and my parents were burnt out on things like Easter egg hunts, and birthday parties by the time I came along. I was always on the outside looking in. My two oldest sisters are very close and my other sister and brother are very close. All four of them are fairly close too. I am absolutely not part of their crew and never have been. Even into my early 20s, they all called me the 'the baby' (my nickname growing up). I was too much younger to be considered relevant for any adult conversations and since I had a more natural approach to life (natural food/homeschooling/less plastic etc) I was definitely considered the odd ball. They all now agree with these same things, but back in the 90s it wasn't common. 

 I see the same thing for dd14. She is 8/12 years younger than my older kids. She is biologically my niece and came to us unexpectedly. I would not have this big of an age gap on purpose. She has zero in common with my older kids and it is hard to have her around when I am spending time with my married, more independent daughter (who lives in another state)g. We want to have adult conversations about topics, that a 14 yo isn't really privy to.  We try to break our time up in to family time and time for just dd22 and myself, but dd14 doesn't understand why she can't be there all the time. 

I will say, that if you have one, then have 2 kids. That way they aren't the only child, of a big family. 

I also agree with others saying they don't have the same 'big-family memories' that the other kids had. 3/4 of my grandparents died when I was young, so I have few memories of them. My cousins were my siblings ages or older, so I wasn't close to them. We traveled for 6 years in a camptrailer and lived in apartments when I was in middle school and early highschool, so I don't really have any longtime roots in a community. My siblings grew up and live in the same city, so they have a strong connection there (tons of family/school friends/lifetimes of memories etc). I have none of that. I didn't sled on the big hill that now is covered in houses, camp out with my parents, go swim at the river etc. My parents were older, tired, and lots of BTDT, made them not very interested in taking just one child out to do those things. 

My friend's family did this. She said, "DC #4 was unplanned. DC #5 was the most planned!"

[Sneezyone]

My younger sister is 10 years my junior. My next older brother is 10 years older than me. I also have sibs that are 15-20 years older than me. I only know the one who’s 10 years older well. The rest were independent and/or married before I even knew they existed. DHs sister is 9 years his junior. He also has sisters 8 and 12 years older. He was not close to his sisters either.

I thought having a much younger sibling was great fun when I was 10. I enjoyed learning to care for her and play with her. When my own developmental needs changed, when I needed/wanted to do teen/young adult things tho, my sister had a hard time adjusting and my mom did not establish or enforce any boundaries. I resented my sister’s constant presence in my social circle.

DH was born when his bio father was 50 and his mom was 33. Bio dad died three years later. DH has no memories of him. DHs mom remarried and had his youngest sibling when she was 42 and her husband was 62. Ten years later, his mom died. DH was 19, his sister was 9 and living with her 70 year old dad. Seven years after that, DHs stepdad died. His younger sister was orphaned at 16. As a result of these losses, and feeling like his parents were ‘too old, tired, and set in their ways’ to have young kids, DH insisted we not have kids past 30. I missed it by 9 months. 
 

I always thought I’d like to have more kids but IF would have made that a heavy lift. Now I’m happy things worked out as they did. Our kids are very close. I’m pretty sure our finances will survive college x2. I’m excited about being a grandma in my fabulous 50s/60s. DH and I even have some time to travel and rest up before that happens. We only have two parents to worry about WRT end of life care so there’s that too. I dunno. No one can decide this for anyone else...such personal choices. I wish you luck with your decision!

Edited December 5, 2020 by Sneezyone

[MercyA]

So weird to me that people can actually decide if they're going to have a baby or not! 

Yes, you are crazy. Is your husband also crazy and fully on board? If not, I'd drop it and be thankful for my four. 🙂

 

[Sneezyone]

21 minutes ago, MercyA said:

So weird to me that people can actually decide if they're going to have a baby or not! 

IKR!! Ours were very planned and very expensive!! 🤣

Edited December 5, 2020 by Sneezyone

[LindaOz]

I was 44 and 46 when I had our last two. They are now 8 and 10 and it's so good. Wouldn't change it for the world.

 

[MercyA]

10 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

IKR!! Ours were very planned and very expensive!! 🤣

I get it! We planned, we tried, we had tests, I had surgery, we tried some more, still no baby. We had given up by the time she arrived unexpectedly. Most of the other women I know seem to either be able to order up babies on demand or are often surprised by their conception (which I also don't really understand, but whatever!). 

Very thankful for my one. 💕

[2squared]

I think a lot of these caboose stories are the same as stories of younger children in larger families.
 

My five are only 8.5 years apart, but I know my youngest does not have the same childhood and memories as my oldest. My #3 and #4 don’t have the same childhood and memories as #1 and #2. We have moved, we have changed schooling models, we have changed employment situations. All five kids also have different personalities, talents, and needs. I think the only way for my kids to have the same childhood would have been to only have two of them spaced 1-2 years apart (which is how I grew up with one brother 14 months younger than me).

I was 37 with my youngest. Would I have had another 5+ years later? No, I wouldn’t. At that point my family and I needed to move into a different season of life. My dh is 50, and our youngest is 10yo. It was time for us to move past baby making. 

[Splash1]

We also have four kids in a six year span.  They are now 25, 23, 21, and 19.  At 41 we added one more that is now 14.  There are so many pluses and minuses.  He is a wonderful kids and we are so thankful for him.  Personally I wouldn't change a thing. Well maybe if things had been different we would have added one more so he wouldn't be the only one.  Kids were all adopted and between our age, the cost, my exhaustion level, and older kids needs we just couldn't figure out how to add another at the time.  When he was five he asked for a three yr old brother, I told him his three year old cousin would have to do.

However, he doesn't like being only one home now.  Wishes he had a sibling to do things with his age, especially when the older ones talk about being little and all they did.  Wyatt was there for a lot of it but he just doesn't remember.  Having a toddler and a high schooler is interesting.  Thankfully our youngest was adaptable and could handle all the run around involved with older siblings.  If he had been like our oldest as a infant/toddler life would have been really hard as he needed absolute structure to function.  We will be old by time we send him to college.  This is fine but sometimes I see my husband looking at friends lifestyle with empty nest and be a little envious.  Covid has helped a little with this as the trips have stopped for now.  Also I have to go through one more year of student driving.  EEK   

Honestly we do not regret having our last and we enjoy our time with him.  His older siblings make a point to stay in contact with him, especially his sisters, he has a pretty special relationship with them.  He thankfully has a cousin(an only child)  that is two years younger than them and they have a great relationship and gives him someone to hang with at large family functions,

Good luck with the decision making.  No right or wrong answer.  

Kimberly

[DawnM]

I am in my early 50s and I have taken on a 3 year old foster child who we plan to adopt.   I am well aware that I will be in my 60s when he graduates high school.   I am ok with that.

Yes, it is tiring, but we love this kid so much.  And there are many, many kids being raised by grandparents out there who are thriving.

[PeterPan]

You might also think through what your life looks through if you *don't* have another. Will you be 50 and going back to work?

[Condessa]

I must say, this thread has been an interesting read on a day when my period is late.

[freesia]

I want to add that I can flip a lot of this around and talk about what was hard for my first born, who was born when dh was in grad school and had to move countries at 7, etc.  Or what is hard for my middles.  My youngest is actually getting my "ideal" homeschool experience at the moment.  The K/1/2 years may have been more fun for the olders (although I made sure through co-ops and having small groups at my house that I did some of the things will the youngest--and didn't have toddlers climbing on me or whining as I did it.)  But since around third grade, it's been better--I don't have youngers to distract, I have time to follow rabbit trails with her bc I don't have such a tight schedule and another child needing to learn to read or something bc the olders are more independent.  I have perspective about some subjects and more skill teaching upper elementary on writing (I get where we are heading and how to get there now and I've successfully done it several times.)  I am definitely more mature and relaxed.  We also know things like the jobs at the local apple farm which would have been fantastic for my oldest, but we didn't really know about it.  She could join ds's FLL team, the BSA troop we've been part of, etc.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I am trying to raise my kids with the knowledge that everyone's life doesn't look the same in our family, but everyone has good things, just not the same good things.

[DawnM]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

You might also think through what your life looks through if you *don't* have another. Will you be 50 and going back to work?

 

I went back to work AND had a new kid! 🤣

I want it all baby!

[Scarlett]

17 hours ago, Quill said:

I would never criticize someone else for having babies later or earlier than I think is ideal. I can relate, though, to thinking I wanted another kid or two soooooo much in my early forties. Dh is 8 years older than me and I was high risk, so he said no. And I was so sad about that for about five years. And then one day, just like nature flipped a switch, I was suddenly very glad I did not have any little babies/toddlers to raise. A couple of my friends had caboose babies and, instead of thinking, “Oh! I wish that would happen to me,” I now thought, “Whew! So glad that didn’t happen to me!” Of course I would love and adore a new child if one had come into our lives but, at about 45, I became ever so glad that phase was in the rear-view mirror. 

As an aside: I used to like watching the Duggar family on TV. In the earlier times, like when they had Johanna, I just thought it was so wonderful. That was even one of my favorite names, too, for a while. A little later, though, I think, “Oh, man, I can’t imagine having so many kids you still have to get all the way raised! And they are closing in on their fifties with, like, 12 kids to still get to adulthood. Just the thought of that is totally exhausting to me!” 

And then I got cancer, and there have been issues with aging parents and, boy am I glad I was not bringing up more little ones! I do not have the energy to raise a whole ‘nother kid. 

It is like you are my twin.  Lol. 
 

Wasn’t the ‘switch’ the strangest thing?  Man did it feel good too.

[marbel]

I am the youngest of 3, all 5 years apart. My oldest sibling and I had very different lives. He and my next-oldest sibling have memories I don't share, and she and I have memories he doesn't share. I have fewer memories of good times with our many cousins, because my family moved across the country when I was 10. By that time my brother was in the military and my sister in high school. The move was hard on all of us but for different reasons. 

Quote

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I am trying to raise my kids with the knowledge that everyone's life doesn't look the same in our family, but everyone has good things, just not the same good things.

In my small family, with 2 kids close in age, this (quote) doesn't really apply to me too much. But my kids also see how their lives are different from their friends, etc. They have no cousins close to their age, because I was older when my kids were born. Their next nearest-age cousin is 8 years older than my oldest.  Plus everyone is scattered so we don't have close relationships. So many things are just different.

Not sure what my point is but the bit I quoted really struck me as true for pretty much everyone, no matter how large the family or how spread apart the kids are. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by marbel

[easypeasy]

We stopped at 3, but I really wanted a 4th - but wanted that baby to be spaced farther apart than the previous 3 had been. Having 3 babies aged 4 and under really took toll on me! lol DH was adamantly a "no - never again." So, we stopped.

Now, we're 50 and adding a new baby this winter, if all goes as planned (adoption). Since we're quite a bit older than you, I'll add that we talked to all 3 of our current (adult) children about the decision and that, if something happens to us, would they be willing to work together to finish raising this baby if dh and I were suddenly taken out of the picture. Between the three of them, they actually came up with a custody plan. Of course, those plans will evolve and morph as our older kids take flight and lead lives of their own - but it was amazing to see them come together and how willing they were to step up for a new family member. We will name the oldest as primary custody in the beginning (and I'm pretty sure that's where the baby would wind up... she's a natural at taking care of people, lol), but will change our will as the kids' adult lives begin to take shape (post "this dang virus"!!).

Edited December 5, 2020 by easypeasy

[Momto6inIN]

1 hour ago, freesia said:

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that I am trying to raise my kids with the knowledge that everyone's life doesn't look the same in our family, but everyone has good things, just not the same good things.

This is a perfect way to say it ❤

3 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

We stopped at 3, but I really wanted a 4th - but wanted that baby to be spaced farther apart than the previous 3 had been. DH was adamantly a "no." So, we stopped.

Now, we're 50 and adding a new baby this winter, if all goes as planned (adoption). Since we're quite a bit older than you, I'll add that we talked to all 3 of our current (adult) children about the decision and that, if something happens to us, would they be willing to work together to finish raising this baby if dh and I were suddenly taken out of the picture. Between the three of them, they actually came up with a custody plan. Of course, those plans will evolve and morph as our older kids take flight and lead lives of their own - but it was amazing to see them come together and how willing they were to step up for a new family member. We will name the oldest as primary custody in the beginning (and I'm pretty sure that's where the baby would wind up... she's a natural at taking care of people, lol), but will change our will as the kids' adult lives begin to take shape (post "this dang virus"!!).

My oldest has said the same thing - although our will states that DH's sister will become guardian if something happens to both DH and I, DS has adamantly said he wants them. We are hesitant to legally bind him in that way, but I know SIL will go along with it if anything ever actually happens and she knows he wants to take care of them.

[Happy2BaMom]

I had kids in my mid+-30's (that's just the way it worked out), and, when I was 40, hubby & I were seriously pursuing adoption. We were licensed foster parents, we had our adoption paperwork done for both foster-to-adopt and international, and we had started accepting kids. To make a long story short, it didn't work out for us, for a variety of reasons, and we remained respite foster parents for several years and then gave it up (for now).

Now I'm in my late 40's and hubby is in his mid-50's and I am so, so, so glad we didn't add another child. I still feel sad about the lost opportunity for an adoptive child, but based on my experience & observation of many other couples our age, life for 50-ish couples is much more likely to bring you additional challenges for which you need time, energy & money. We are both thin, active & healthy, yet age does take a toll.... I had a bad back injury for a while (a struggle for 2-ish years); I'm currently dealing with frozen shoulder. DH had to have surgery a few years ago. His brother recently fought, then died, of cancer. His mom now has Stage IV cancer. Even though we were at a distance from his family, we've made several extra trips (5+ hours in the car one way) to help them and are currently helping resolve, or set up, both estates. My mom had a very bad fall last year & needed a lot of getting to-and-from doctors appointments and therapies. I literally don't know how we would have done it with another young child to care for on top of all of the above.

And, for us, there's been another issue as well. DH is really ready to start thinking about retirement. He talks about it a lot (I say constantly, he'd disagree). We can't financially swing it at this point, but should be able to mostly retire by the time he's 60. He wants to check places out, maybe buy a home where we think we'll settle, etc. Yet we can't even make a weekend trip anywhere to check places out, due to kids' activities and school, etc (besides Covid). He's wanting to start moving into a retirement mindset, but we still have kids at home. It's a natural, constant tension. Not bad, but still there.

And, of course, there have been *many* couples who've had babies at 40 and are fine & completely happy. But life definitely is more complex in your 50s than your 30s, and I don't see that component of late-in-life parenting get the attention I think it should.

[katilac]

12 hours ago, LindaOz said:

I was 44 and 46 when I had our last two. They are now 8 and 10 and it's so good. Wouldn't change it for the world.

 

Time to update your signature! 

59 minutes ago, easypeasy said:

 Now, we're 50 and adding a new baby this winter, if all goes as planned (adoption).  

Feel free to ignore this question, because it's simply curiosity: did the possibility enter your life unexpectedly and you decided to go for it, or did you specifically plan to adopt a baby? 

52 minutes ago, Momto6inIN said:

My oldest has said the same thing - although our will states that DH's sister will become guardian if something happens to both DH and I, DS has adamantly said he wants them. We are hesitant to legally bind him in that way, but I know SIL will go along with it if anything ever actually happens and she knows he wants to take care of them.

Just FYI, a request that someone be guardian does not legally bind them in any way. It's actually highly recommended to name at least one alternate, in case your first choice is unable to follow through - maybe they suddenly discover they have a terminal illness, or maybe they're in the same car crash that kills the parents.. If you can't amend your will for a while, you can go ahead and write an unofficial addendum to it and keep them together. The more official, the better, but the courts will take what's available into consideration. 

[HS Mom in NC]

1 hour ago, Happy2BaMom said:

 But life definitely is more complex in your 50s than your 30s, and I don't see that component of late-in-life parenting get the attention I think it should.

It's interesting to me how many people are measuring their answers based on feelings about household family dynamics and how many are factoring inevitable issues outside of family life like eldercare, retirement/employment, and middle age health issues that accumulate.

I think people who have never personally done a long stint of directly caring for an elder don't really grasp how intense it is. It's one of those things where they're huge difference in theoretical knowledge and experiential knowledge. If they didn't help their parents care for long term dependent grandparents, they're probably in for a shock with their own parents and step-parents.

People are probably also unaware of how limited resources are for help.  In home nursing and nursing assistants are a thing, but there aren't enough of them to go around everywhere.  And the range of quality in care facilities is alarming, and that's before you factor in out of pocket costs. 

And what percentage of Americans are on track for a fully funded retirement?  Life expectancy is now, what, 80+? The amount of resources required to have at the ready in order to not financially rely on adult children or taxpayers before they're forced to mentally/physically rely on adult children is larger than most people realize.

[mommyoffive]

I love this thread.  Kudos to people in their 50s adopting kids.  That is amazing.  Long ago I thought I would do that too.  Who knows, but I see the side now of this group of kids is exhausting me now.  Plus I am getting older everyday, will I really have the energy to do it again one day?  The thoughts about having teens and young adults is something you don't think about.  I feel that they are more exhausting then babies.  I am sure the next 10 years for us are going to be so busy parenting and launching young adults.  And the thoughts on your body being older and the trials of that while having young kids is such a good point.  And the elder care issue is so important too.  All things that you don't think of when you are thinking of having a child at an older age.  Thanks for everyone putting out their thoughts and experiences.  So much good food for thought.  

 

More babbling about  having another from me.  When I think we were really deciding to have a 6th or not, I just couldn't imagine adding another person to take care of.   I was at my limit.  My youngest was a lot until age 4.  I couldn't see having a newborn and a 2 year that was as much as she was.  I did it all the times before, but with the older 4 other kids to take care of and school, it was all I could do.  I am sad and sometimes mad at myself for making that choice.    None of the things brought up did I even think about.  Those probably would have been things I considered at that time too.  

[teachermom2834]

I have often thought about my caboose dd being such an easy and delightful child. She is the only girl and just spreads sunshine and sparkles all over. LOL. But, as awful as it sounds, I have often thought about what it would have been like if she wasn't so easy and sweet. It sounds terrible but how would I have handled another difficult boy? Would I have had the patience or would I have been resentful? I'm not positive even though it is an awful thing to say. What if I had a child with special needs that demanded more energy and intervention? What if my caboose did not tell me everyday I am the most beautiful woman in the world? I find myself so thankful that she is so easy. Not sure how it would have gone otherwise. Or maybe she is easy because I am more mature and a better mom now? That could be too.

We are experiencing something and it sounds so shallow but I'm going to say it anyway. My dh is 46 and just now really hitting his stride in his career. He is starting to make more serious money. It is such a relief after so many years of struggling with a house full of kids. Now he is starting to really make career moves and it is really really nice that there are no more braces to buy and two are out of college. We are turning the corner on things and seeing some fruit after 25 years of working so hard to get ahead. If we still had little kids and all the teen and college expenses ahead of us it probably wouldn't feel like he was even making more money. Now he is making more money and dh and I can finally use it for things for ourselves! Or we can help our adult children or give away more or whatever. It's just nice to have dh start making more money and have some freedom about what to do with it. 

Also- for a few years we had five vehicles on our insurance policy. Those kind of expenses are draining. I actually find them emotionally draining as well as financially. I am feeling some relief as the kids come off of those things and I'm glad there is a limit to the ones still needing to be added on.

I think we all have different capabilites and circumstances. I used to think I could handle and would like even more than the four I have. But I really couldn't have. 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by teachermom2834

[fairfarmhand]

56 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

It's interesting to me how many people are measuring their answers based on feelings about household family dynamics and how many are factoring inevitable issues outside of family life like eldercare, retirement/employment, and middle age health issues that accumulate.

I think people who have never personally done a long stint of directly caring for an elder don't really grasp how intense it is. It's one of those things where they're huge difference in theoretical knowledge and experiential knowledge. If they didn't help their parents care for long term dependent grandparents, they're probably in for a shock with their own parents and step-parents.

People are probably also unaware of how limited resources are for help.  In home nursing and nursing assistants are a thing, but there aren't enough of them to go around everywhere.  And the range of quality in care facilities is alarming, and that's before you factor in out of pocket costs. 

And what percentage of Americans are on track for a fully funded retirement?  Life expectancy is now, what, 80+? The amount of resources required to have at the ready in order to not financially rely on adult children or taxpayers before they're forced to mentally/physically rely on adult children is larger than most people realize.

YES!!!! 
I had originally wanted more than 4. But I got to the point where with my oldest dds needs, I just wouldn’t have been able to give another child what they needed of me. And in 2015 my dhs dad got cancer and needed intensive nursing care for 2 year. My son was 7. Had we added another child or 2 would’ve meant that I’d have stated home with the kids and only seen my dh for 3-4 days a week for 18 months or so.  Then my dd had some issues that tore our family apart. My son was 11 when that hit the fan and I remember being so relieved that there were no smaller kids being torn up with that drama. Then my mil had some mental struggles and wow, was that a wild ride.  My baby switch went off about the time my son was 5 or so and man it was the best thing for what was ahead. I’ve wondered if that was Gods provision for all we had ahead of us at the time.

[HS Mom in NC]

1 minute ago, fairfarmhand said:

My baby switch went off about the time my son was 5 or so and man it was the best thing for what was ahead. I’ve wondered if that was Gods provision for all we had ahead of us at the time.

Agreed. 

3 years ago I woke up one day having no plans to have another child in my life and at them end of the day I had an emergency placement toddler (my step-niece's toddler) for an up to 3 month stay.  Another family member that step-niece approved of offered to openly adopt the toddler a month into her stay with us, so she was then placed with them and adopted later.  I had young adult live in help, a helpful husband, and an enthusiastic 12 year old, but that wasn't going to cut it long term.   It was clear our switches went off because we saw that we didn't have the bandwidth for it long term.  We truly enjoyed her, but more in a "come stay with us for the summer" way. She was an easy kid in spite of the circumstances she had been in that were later revealed. (Who knows what will crop up long term.)

My brother and his wife who adopted her were 45 and 46 when they adopted her.  They already had a mild special needs son to him, step-son to her, who was 14 at the time. She'd been wanting another child all along as she had none and he had recently considered it, so it really IS for some people. But they are dealing with her thyroid cancer treatment, elder care, preschool, and late teen issues all at once. 

For people who have the bandwidth to deal with starting over with littles in addition to all the middle age factors discussed at length in this thread, more power to them.  But most people don't.  Everyone should go into whatever is ahead of them with full disclosure and eyes wide open.

[J-rap]

I just figure you do the best you can with the decisions you make and with whatever life throws at you.   But then, finding a perfect formula for planning life has never been my thing.  It's more about having the right attitude and gumption to keep handling things as they come up.  

So, if you're in good health, mentally and financially stable, and it's something you and your husband are both very excited about, I'd say go for it.  

 

[porque?]

Quote

5 hours ago, easypeasy said:

 

Now, we're 50 and adding a new baby this winter, if all goes as planned (adoption). 

 

Quote

8 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am in my early 50s and I have taken on a 3 year old foster child who we plan to adopt. 

Yes, it is tiring, but we love this kid so much.  And there are many, many kids being raised by grandparents out there who are thriving.

 

I am in the same situation as DawnM and EasyPeasy (except even older!). Unexpectedly became a foster parent and it  looks like adoption will happen this summer.

I have considered the experiences that she may not have (I gave up on birthday parties a loooong time ago!) and today she was very excited to hang Christmas stockings but  it had to be put off due to my son's work schedule - and admittedly my teens are not nearly as excited as she is to hang the stockings! So it is definitely different- 

Quote

55 minutes ago, J-rap said:

I just figure you do the best you can with the decisions you make and with whatever life throws at you.   But then, finding a perfect formula for planning life has never been my thing.  It's more about having the right attitude and gumption to keep handling things as they come up.  

 

 

 

 

This sums it up I guess- life can take us to all kinds of unexpected places and we just have to do our best with it!

 

[marbel]

NM, misinterpreted something I think.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by marbel

[easypeasy]

10 hours ago, katilac said:

Feel free to ignore this question, because it's simply curiosity: did the possibility enter your life unexpectedly and you decided to go for it, or did you specifically plan to adopt a baby? 

 

The possibility was, quite literally, unexpectedly dropped into our lives. A distant relative contacted us, and dh was immediately on board with the idea. Took me a little longer, because we were jusssssst reaching empty nest and I've really looked forward to that. With a new baby at our ages, we won't ever have that. 
 

But we just looked at our lives and what we want to do with the remaining years and figured we can haul a kid around with us! It'll only be one, so she/he will just become portable! 😊 We plan to homeschool on the road as much as possible while they're little and will put them in school around middle school age once we've settled somewhere!

I have started working out again so I can keep up with what's coming. 😂

[Suzanne in ABQ]

I had our youngest at 42. Her siblings were 7.5 and 9 when she was born. She is an absolute joy and a wonder. Yes, I'll be 60 when she graduates high school, and no, I don't homeschool her (though I did through grade 5). She gets the benefit of all our parenting experience. Perhaps that what makes her so easy to parent. Or maybe we just got lucky? I have no idea. I just know that she brightens our world and keeps us young. 

You can absolutely do this.

[DawnM]

16 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

It's interesting to me how many people are measuring their answers based on feelings about household family dynamics and how many are factoring inevitable issues outside of family life like eldercare, retirement/employment, and middle age health issues that accumulate.

I think people who have never personally done a long stint of directly caring for an elder don't really grasp how intense it is. It's one of those things where they're huge difference in theoretical knowledge and experiential knowledge. If they didn't help their parents care for long term dependent grandparents, they're probably in for a shock with their own parents and step-parents.

People are probably also unaware of how limited resources are for help.  In home nursing and nursing assistants are a thing, but there aren't enough of them to go around everywhere.  And the range of quality in care facilities is alarming, and that's before you factor in out of pocket costs. 

And what percentage of Americans are on track for a fully funded retirement?  Life expectancy is now, what, 80+? The amount of resources required to have at the ready in order to not financially rely on adult children or taxpayers before they're forced to mentally/physically rely on adult children is larger than most people realize.

Because not everyone has that concern.

Edited December 6, 2020 by DawnM

[Laura Corin]

17 minutes ago, DawnM said:

Because not everyone has that concern.

Because their retirement is well funded or for other reasons? 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Laura Corin

[Scarlett]

I have only been caring for my parents post accident for 6 weeks and yes I can attest to how difficult it is. 
 

As for all of the what ifs........I think we can only do the best we can because none of us know what the future holds for us personally or for the country we live in,  We could carry that to the extreme and think maybe we should never have children because what if we die young and leave our children orphaned,  

Financial Security in retirement is a myth too because entire systems can collapse overnight or a tragedy can wipe out a substantial life savings.  Or a divorce after a long term marriage can make your plans go poof overnight.  
 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

Because not everyone has that concern.

Sure, some people don't have that issue if there aren't elders in their lives, causing them no concern, but many people who do have elders to care for in the future aren't concerned because they haven't been thinking long term about the inevitable in realistic terms. I'm at the age where many of my friends are starting to deal with this and the most common thing they say about it is how completely shocked they are at the duration and intensity of elder care. It's so much more than they thought it would be-even for those few who did think about it some.

People are trying to give fair warning here. Voices of experience are describing common, predictable realities. We even have a common term for it, "The Sandwiched Generation." Are there exceptions?  Absolutely.  But there's a reason the advice: Plan for the worst, hope for the best is used for so many situations. It's good, solid advice.

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I have only been caring for my parents post accident for 6 weeks and yes I can attest to how difficult it is. 
 

As for all of the what ifs........I think we can only do the best we can because none of us know what the future holds for us personally or for the country we live in,  We could carry that to the extreme and think maybe we should never have children because what if we die young and leave our children orphaned,  

Financial Security in retirement is a myth too because entire systems can collapse overnight or a tragedy can wipe out a substantial life savings.  Or a divorce after a long term marriage can make your plans go poof overnight.  
 

 

I'm struggling with how to put this correctly but the idea of deciding against having a child because of the possibility of having to provide long-term care for aging parents is bothering me.

I get it that people who are in the midst of a serious illness or other family crisis would not want to add to their families just then and even to be glad that they did not have as many kids as they had previously wanted. But not to have children, or as many children as desired, in anticipation... I don't know.

If I had planned my life around the possibility of long-term care for my parents I would probably not have had children at all, because I knew that if my parents had needed help, it would have all fallen on me. As it happened, my father died before I was married and my mother died when my kids were quite little. Both had relatively short illnesses. While I wish they had lived longer, I am also grateful for the fact that they were not infirm for years (both for their sakes and mine).  <shrug> If I had never had children, or fewer children than I wanted [ETA I actually would have been happy to have more than 2 kids but I didn't limit myself to two, biology and other circumstances did], I would still have a good life, but... it would have been a shame to have given it up for no reason. Haven't we all heard of, or at least read novels about, women who stayed single to care for aging parents and ended up alone and full of regret for all they gave up, once those parents were gone? 

Likewise, one could say that people shouldn't have children at all, but save as much money as possible in order to pay for good care in the event it is needed and thus not be a burden to adult children. Or, just the opposite, have a lot of children so the work/cost is spread around.  Those are extreme views; I don't know anyone who holds them really. It's just a result of thinking about how one could possibly plan for all the possibilities. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by marbel

[Scarlett]

5 minutes ago, marbel said:

I'm struggling with how to put this correctly but the idea of deciding against having a child because of the possibility of having to provide long-term care for aging parents is bothering me.

I get it that people who are in the midst of a serious illness or other family crisis would not want to add to their families just then and even to be glad that they did not have as many kids as they had previously wanted. But not to have children, or as many children as desired, in anticipation... I don't know.

If I had planned my life around the possibility of long-term care for my parents I would probably not have had children at all, because I knew that if my parents had needed help, it would have all fallen on me. As it happened, my father died before I was married and my mother died when my kids were quite little. Both had relatively short illnesses. While I wish they had lived longer, I am also grateful for the fact that they were not infirm for years (both for their sakes and mine).  <shrug> If I had never had children, or fewer children than I wanted, I would still have a good life, but... it would have been a shame to have given it up for no reason. Haven't we all heard of, or at least read novels about, women who stayed single to care for aging parents and ended up alone and full of regret for all they gave up, once those parents were gone? 

Likewise, one could say that people shouldn't have children at all, but save as much money as possible in order to pay for good care in the event it is needed and thus not be a burden to adult children. Or, just the opposite, have a lot of children so the work/cost is spread around.  Those are extreme views; I don't know anyone who holds them really. It's just a result of thinking about how one could possibly plan for all the possibilities. 

 

 

And along the same lines people putting off having kids trying to make everything  perfect first.  That is the reason I only have one child.....my XH could not bear to PLAN to get pregnant.  He was just terrified by the entire process.  In fact, when I was 33 and he was 34 and he finally agreed......he was suddenly never interested in sex.  So he didn’t really ever agree because he was so scared.  We had been married for 16 1/2 years before ds was born.  

[katilac]

18 hours ago, porque? said:

and today she was very excited to hang Christmas stockings but  it had to be put off due to my son's work schedule - and admittedly my teens are not nearly as excited as she is to hang the stockings! 

I have one friend who uses the "let's do it for them as a surprise!" route. It's much easier for the older kids to be happy and sincerely thankful that the stockings were hung and cookies were baked, than for them to conjure up genuine excitement for the whole process. The little one loves the secrecy and surprise element, and the bigger ones are happy to admire and make a fuss. 

My 20-somethings still put out cookies and milk for Santa, so I really can't relate 😄

11 hours ago, easypeasy said:

The possibility was, quite literally, unexpectedly dropped into our lives. 

But we just looked at our lives and what we want to do with the remaining years and figured we can haul a kid around with us! It'll only be one, so she/he will just become portable! 😊  !

I have started working out again so I can keep up with what's coming. 😂

Thanks for indulging me! I love getting glimpse's into people's lives. 

I think it's actually probably easier to travel and such with a little one than it is to drag them along to endless older sibling activities! With the benefit that there's only one kid schedule and kid personality to work around. 

The working out is a great idea, in all seriousness. When I watch my preschool-aged great niblings, that is all I do, and then I'm exhausted, lol. 

34 minutes ago, marbel said:

I'm struggling with how to put this correctly but the idea of deciding against having a child because of the possibility of having to provide long-term care for aging parents is bothering me.

I think she was more saying it was something to consider, if you hadn't thought about it. It is one important consideration among many, imo. And it's not just the  possibility of proving long-term or intensive type care, imo, it's the near-certainty that they will need some additional help and support. My parents are very independent and do very well overall, but they're in their 80s and there are definitely things they can no longer do. Even a low level of help and support is surprisingly time-consuming. 

Even five years ago, the idea of having to help my parents on an ongoing basis seemed quite distant, but it was not. It's just something to consider, just like not being able to travel or retire is something to consider. It's very much a good idea to think about these things before making a decision. If you decide you can handle it and can be happy changing your plans, that's awesome, and you go in with your eyes open.  

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Even five years ago, the idea of having to help my parents on an ongoing basis seemed quite distant, but it was not. It's just something to consider, just like not being able to travel or retire is something to consider. It's very much a good idea to think about these things before making a decision. If you decide you can handle it and can be happy changing your plans, that's awesome, and you go in with your eyes open.  

THIS. We are in our early 40s and only have two remaining parents between us that are 74 and 69. Time is not on our side. We know that at least one of them will require significant assistance and, despite a strained relationship, we will do that. My younger sister just had a baby so there’s no way in hell she could or should do that job. Her kiddo deserves her time and resources and attention much more than our parent. DH and I, with older kids nearing launch, are best positioned to be caregivers. I feel like this is also a gift I can give my younger sister, thanks to DHs prescience.

[marbel]

2 hours ago, katilac said:

<snip>

I think she was more saying it was something to consider, if you hadn't thought about it. It is one important consideration among many, imo. And it's not just the  possibility of proving long-term or intensive type care, imo, it's the near-certainty that they will need some additional help and support. My parents are very independent and do very well overall, but they're in their 80s and there are definitely things they can no longer do. Even a low level of help and support is surprisingly time-consuming. 

Even five years ago, the idea of having to help my parents on an ongoing basis seemed quite distant, but it was not. It's just something to consider, just like not being able to travel or retire is something to consider. It's very much a good idea to think about these things before making a decision. If you decide you can handle it and can be happy changing your plans, that's awesome, and you go in with your eyes open.  

Yeah, that makes sense.  But I sure hate the thought of my kids and their as-yet-hypothetical spouses limiting their families out of fear they were going to have to take care of aged parents someday.  Because no matter how much one plans for income in their old age, absent great wealth and/or a generous pension that won't run out, there is nearly always the possibility that there won't be enough. 

[DawnM]

9 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Because their retirement is well funded or for other reasons? 

Yes, funded retirement.   My retirement is through the public school system and will include health care.   DH has been paying the max into his 401k (and has a decent match from his company) since Day 1.

My parents were the same way and bought into a retirement place when they retired.   

[porque?]

4 hours ago, katilac said:

I have one friend who uses the "let's do it for them as a surprise!" route. It's much easier for the older kids to be happy and sincerely thankful that the stockings were hung and cookies were baked, than for them to conjure up genuine excitement for the whole process. The little one loves the secrecy and surprise element, and the bigger ones are happy to admire and make a fuss. 

Ok, I know I am derailing a bit here but I love this idea and think it will work very well for us! Thanks!

[DawnM]

6 hours ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Sure, some people don't have that issue if there aren't elders in their lives, causing them no concern, but many people who do have elders to care for in the future aren't concerned because they haven't been thinking long term about the inevitable in realistic terms. I'm at the age where many of my friends are starting to deal with this and the most common thing they say about it is how completely shocked they are at the duration and intensity of elder care. It's so much more than they thought it would be-even for those few who did think about it some.

People are trying to give fair warning here. Voices of experience are describing common, predictable realities. We even have a common term for it, "The Sandwiched Generation." Are there exceptions?  Absolutely.  But there's a reason the advice: Plan for the worst, hope for the best is used for so many situations. It's good, solid advice.

I am well aware of all of that, I never said everyone.

But I don't think this should deter someone from having another child if they so choose.   For us, this is a foster child and he would be on this earth with or without us taking him in, and we are the best option for him given the others that we're available.

We will keep him AND help my dad with whatever he needs us to do.

Edited December 6, 2020 by DawnM

[fairfarmhand]

By the way, I don't think that anyone who DOES choose to have children later in life is making a poor choice. I was just offering my thoughts about the conclusions that we came to, and how it actually played out in MY family. It really all ended up for the best. I'm sure the OP will come to the best conclusion for HER family after lots of thought and consideration.

[Desert Strawberry]

So much depends on your wishes and your health.
All of my pregnancies were hard. I'm a diabetic. I had Luna at 38, and had wanted at least one more after her, but my body just couldn't. We came close to losing #3 and #5 because I just couldn't support them. Luna has delays. While we think now that she will live a full life, we didn't know for a long time. I definitely would not risk another one. I can only imagine that it would go badly.
Now that I'm 44, my body is starting to shut down and I do have to wonder if I haven't pushed my body too hard. I'm afraid I've shortened my life and will be leaving my children without a mother.
I'm sure your situation isn't quite as dire, but advancing age and inevitable decline is something to factor in. 

 

[Desert Strawberry]

16 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Because their retirement is well funded or for other reasons? 

 

16 hours ago, DawnM said:

Because not everyone has that concern.

Because we don't have living parents.

 

[HS Mom in NC]

16 hours ago, DawnM said:

I am well aware of all of that, I never said everyone.

But I don't think this should deter someone from having another child if they so choose.   For us, this is a foster child and he would be on this earth with or without us taking him in, and we are the best option for him given the others that we're available.

We will keep him AND help my dad with whatever he needs us to do.

I think situations vary enough that while it might not deter some, it certainly would deter others.  The context of this conversation, I'll remind everyone, is someone with 4 at home right now already and will likely have some of them there for another decade, which is an entirely different equation than 1 child at home.

It's easy to take general discussions of these hard realities personally, but that was never the intention.  Again,  beating a dead horse, the point is to get people to seriously consider in practical terms what many people don't give any or much thought to and to take seriously things that are usually minimized or ignored by those who haven't seen them up close all the way through to the end. 

It's not a matter of having a positive attitude and a certain mindset.  Mindset doesn't add hours to your day, it doesn't heal the health issues of caregivers and care recipients, it doesn't generate funds as needed, it doesn't provide outside supports, and it doesn't create mental and physical energy out of nowhere. We live a finite existence, not an infinite one. This is not a movie or a novel, this is real life. When people experience multiple mid-life issues at the same time, something has to give.  There is no reality in which something does not give. People should consider what they'll give on and if that's acceptable to them or not.

I've met my moral obligation to try and emphasize a reality to people who will be subject to it whether or not they thought it through beforehand.

[DawnM]

27 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

I think situations vary enough that while it might not deter some, it certainly would deter others.  The context of this conversation, I'll remind everyone, is someone with 4 at home right now already and will likely have some of them there for another decade, which is an entirely different equation than 1 child at home.

It's easy to take general discussions of these hard realities personally, but that was never the intention.  Again,  beating a dead horse, the point is to get people to seriously consider in practical terms what many people don't give any or much thought to and to take seriously things that are usually minimized or ignored by those who haven't seen them up close all the way through to the end. 

It's not a matter of having a positive attitude and a certain mindset.  Mindset doesn't add hours to your day, it doesn't heal the health issues of caregivers and care recipients, it doesn't generate funds as needed, it doesn't provide outside supports, and it doesn't create mental and physical energy out of nowhere. We live a finite existence, not an infinite one. This is not a movie or a novel, this is real life. When people experience multiple mid-life issues at the same time, something has to give.  There is no reality in which something does not give. People should consider what they'll give on and if that's acceptable to them or not.

I've met my moral obligation to try and emphasize a reality to people who will be subject to it whether or not they thought it through beforehand.

 

I didn't say it had to do with mindset.  But I feel as if you need to keep responding to me and set me straight.   

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

On 12/6/2020 at 11:16 AM, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Sure, some people don't have that issue if there aren't elders in their lives, causing them no concern, but many people who do have elders to care for in the future aren't concerned because they haven't been thinking long term about the inevitable in realistic terms. I'm at the age where many of my friends are starting to deal with this and the most common thing they say about it is how completely shocked they are at the duration and intensity of elder care. It's so much more than they thought it would be-even for those few who did think about it some.

People are trying to give fair warning here. Voices of experience are describing common, predictable realities. We even have a common term for it, "The Sandwiched Generation." Are there exceptions?  Absolutely.  But there's a reason the advice: Plan for the worst, hope for the best is used for so many situations. It's good, solid advice.

I think it’s so dependent.  People in my family tend to be very long lived—my great grandmother was still living independently at 98.  My mom had my youngest sister at 42, and that child was 20 when my grandparents started needing help.  So my mom never had to deal with the Sandwich generation.(also, her parents were young 20s when they had her)

On the other hand, My dad’s parents were in their 40s when they had him, and he was not even 40 when they both had passed away. There was only a few weeks of caregiving needed there, but it would have been difficult if there had been more caregiving needed, because my parents still had and were having babies. 

I cannot biologically have more children, but my SIL is pursuing foster to adoption. She married in her late 30s, did fertility treatments for eighteen months before discovering she cannot have kids, and will probably be over 40 when an adoption is finalized.  We’ve talked about becoming respite licensed to help them before the adoption(s) are finalized, and I can easily see that turning into adoption for us.  My in laws are likely to need some help, I suspect, in another 15-20 years or so.  My parents have the resources for fancy assisted living places and have been clear they’d prefer that.  Out of their eight kids, I am the only one who lives in driving distance.

My real concern is my SN sister that my parents have not sought adult services or made any provisions for her.  They naively believed for a long time that one of her sisters would take her in down the road, but are coming to realize that won’t happen. Unfortunately she is almost 30 with no driver’s license, work experience, or even a diagnosis that would get her state services.  
 

Sorry for the tangent, but there are so many variables in the childbearing decisions.

[kesmom]

I had my very much wanted youngest at 40, 5 years after #4. I don't regret it for a moment and I had a fairly uneventful pregnancy and birth, but it's been exhausting. (and he is hands down my very best sleeper) We were already looking at sending my oldest to ps for high school, but having a new little one pushed that over the edge.

We did not consider having a "buddy" for him. I don't think that would have been good for my mental health - and that would have negatively affected the entire family. (Anecdotally, our babies have alternated between good sleepers and not so good sleepers - so we will stop here thank you!) I used to be unable to name a specific # of children I wanted and figured that I would never feel "done" but I did very quickly after he was born.

Slightly different because of divorce/remarriages, but my youngest sibling is almost 18 years younger than me (oldest) and she got a better version of our dad than any of the rest of us did. Her gushy posts about him are part of the reason I avoid Facebook on Father's Day. I don't blame her for it, but I think she is kind of blissfully unaware about how different it is for her older siblings.

 

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Choirfarm3 said:

It isn't just money, though, it is emotional bandwidth. I raised my children and helped out a disabled parent at the same time and it nearly killed me emotionally, as in almost committed suicide. It is a real stress. No you cannot live by fear, but you do need to take those things in consideration. I'm glad my last kid was at 35.  Also, if I am like my grandmother and my mom, then I am about to be diagnosed with breast cancer.  I'm glad we have an empty nest now. There is no way I would have enough in me to parent kids, fight breast cancer and take care of a parent. No way.

That's true, and I'm sorry for the difficulties you have had and the worries you still have!

The point about money is that it pays for care. If there is plenty of money, caregivers can be hired. 

But as several people have said, this is very individual. My perspective is based on my own experience in having kids late in life and with parents who lived long but whose last years were relatively easy.