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Since it's a regional campus, the college search engines don't seem to find these kinds of schools based on majors/ feel. Mostly flagships turn up or other regional schools in Alabama.

Are there similar nerd schools that are mid-sized and reasonably priced for out-of-state for a fairly high-stat kid (probably not perfect stats)? Dd has a list that includes a couple of in-state safeties, a financial reach and couple of academic reaches. I feel like we need one more, especially if UAH isn't going to be a financial safety. (I have an email out to them). She's very into aerospace, but she may go for mechanical engineering. 

We checked out the midwest exchange, but none of those schools seemed to be similar. Midwest Student Exchange Program | (mhec.org)

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I am mostly following, as my HS junior is looking for a small school with computer engineering and merit for good-but-not-tippy-top stats. And also his sport. He has recently added Case-Western to the list, though, and I think they offer aerospace as well. I know nothing else about it other than that it is small. 

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38 minutes ago, plansrme said:

I am mostly following, as my HS junior is looking for a small school with computer engineering and merit for good-but-not-tippy-top stats. And also his sport. He has recently added Case-Western to the list, though, and I think they offer aerospace as well. I know nothing else about it other than that it is small. 

It's a nice campus! (At least the side with the art museum.) I should throw that one on the list for dd to look at. I think it's pricey, but NASA Glenn is in Cleveland.

ETA... probably out of our budget, although I do work for a tuition exchange school, it would still come in around $33K a year. The website basically states that scholarships can't be stacked on top of the tuition exchange. I suspect they don't offer much aid for middle income families.

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41 minutes ago, plansrme said:

I am mostly following, as my HS junior is looking for a small school with computer engineering and merit for good-but-not-tippy-top stats. And also his sport. He has recently added Case-Western to the list, though, and I think they offer aerospace as well. I know nothing else about it other than that it is small. 

Do you have info on merit aid for CWR?

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My impression is that Case Western doesn’t offer much merit aid. Of course it varies and it’s always the effort. We have been very impressed with what we’ve learned about the school. Being out of state (and in your case if you are in Alabama.. very out of state and region) tends to be a bonus. Schools really want that All 50 States! representation. 

Have you looked at Clarkson for aerospace? If your daughter can cope with living in upstate New York, it’s a fantastic school. DS has a friend in the program currently and he loves it. He has another friend considering for mech.

Colorado School of Mines? Not sure how good their aid is since technically it’s a state school. 

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21 hours ago, MEmama said:

My impression is that Case Western doesn’t offer much merit aid. Of course it varies and it’s always the effort. We have been very impressed with what we’ve learned about the school. Being out of state (and in your case if you are in Alabama.. very out of state and region) tends to be a bonus. Schools really want that All 50 States! representation. 

Have you looked at Clarkson for aerospace? If your daughter can cope with living in upstate New York, it’s a fantastic school. DS has a friend in the program currently and he loves it. He has another friend considering for mech.

Colorado School of Mines? Not sure how good their aid is since technically it’s a state school. 

We don't live in Alabama, we are in the Midwest. Right now, without UAH, her only other target school is our state flagship, and only if she can get into the honors & engineering programs (it's too big otherwise). She's got a couple of really good safeties, and some academic reaches. She has another tuition exchange school that's kind of a financial reach on her list with a similar financial outcome on paper to Case Western, but the other one is running 75% male, so I'm hoping being a women might make her eligible for a little more merit aid. I think we'll still put CWR on the list. Their application for their big scholarship is probably the shortest I've ever seen. When I asked her about it, she said, "Why would I want to go to Cleveland". Goofy kid.

We had Mines on the list and took it back off. I don't remember why, though.

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9 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

We don't live in Alabama, we are in the Midwest. Right now, without UAH, her only other target school is our state flagship, and only if she can get into the honors & engineering programs (it's too big otherwise). She's got a couple of really good safeties, and some academic reaches. She has another tuition exchange school that's kind of a financial reach on her list with a similar financial outcome on paper to Case Western, but the other one is running 75% male, so I'm hoping being a women might make her eligible for a little more merit aid. I think we'll still put CWR on the list. Their application for their big scholarship is probably the shortest I've ever seen. When I asked her about it, she said, "Why would I want to go to Cleveland". Goofy kid.

We had Mines on the list and took it back off. I don't remember why, though.

Mines has a pretty dismal gender ratio IIRC—DS applied (but really only because he had a fee waiver) but all of us were turned off by the stark divide. All engineering schools have a pretty bad record, unfortunately. Change is slow. The good news for your daughter is that it probably will help her—I think engineering schools understandably want to get those numbers up. 
 

Have you looked at Rose Hullman? Idk if they have aero specifically but it’s a very strong engineering school and I think they offer decent aid.
 

Does WPI appeal? Worcester isn’t great but the school is sooooo fabulous. Idk if they offer enough aid though. Again, being female might help? We didn’t get the sense that the gender ratio was as bad as RPI and the culture suited DS much better (more balanced). 
 

idk why I thought you are in Alabama, sorry for the misunderstanding. 

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@MamaSproutI do sympathize. It is quite difficult finding excellent merit for the very good, but not tippy top, student. There are many great engineering schools, but the ones like UAH that offer fantastic automatic merit are not very common. Our last college search for our tippy top student looks very different from the one for our upcoming very good student. It's a little stressful, honestly. I hope you find just the thing. I doubt admissions will be much of an issue for her, but I know paying might be a different story.

I don't know your income situation, but maybe consider one application to a school that is known for excellent need-based aid, even if you think she might not qualify. My engineer went to Princeton. We don't normally qualify for anything other than loans, but our aid there was excellent. I have shared the story of my daughter's brother-in-law, who I was helping with college apps because of his difficult family situation. I would call him a very good student and interesting person, but not tippy top. I did NOT recommend that he apply to Ivies because he did not need to waste money on apps, and it seemed unlikely that he would be admitted. The kid secretly applied to Yale, got in, and now attends for $1600/year because the school was so responsive to considering his individual circumstances in his financial aid appeal.

Take all that with a grain of salt, but wanted to throw it out there. I know nothing about your individual circumstances, but maybe it can help somebody. That said, my youngest is not applying to Ivies. Unless she does it secretly, lol.

 

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1 hour ago, MEmama said:

Does WPI appeal? Worcester isn’t great but the school is sooooo fabulous. Idk if they offer enough aid though. Again, being female might help? We didn’t get the sense that the gender ratio was as bad as RPI and the culture suited DS much better (more balanced). 

Dd got into WPI just fine, but nowhere near enough merit (she did get a bunch, but it starts out $$$$).

But on the other hand, all she had on her side was strong female student - but not geography.  We're very close.  Maybe with the geographical diversity card, it would help further.  Also, for some reason, our financial profile worked against us for the CSS profile schools; could work out the other way for others.  It's so wacky and hard to predict.  Worth a shot.  Dd really liked that school.

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2 hours ago, MEmama said:

Mines has a pretty dismal gender ratio IIRC—DS applied (but really only because he had a fee waiver) but all of us were turned off by the stark divide. All engineering schools have a pretty bad record, unfortunately. Change is slow. The good news for your daughter is that it probably will help her—I think engineering schools understandably want to get those numbers up. 
 

Have you looked at Rose Hullman? Idk if they have aero specifically but it’s a very strong engineering school and I think they offer decent aid.
 

Does WPI appeal? Worcester isn’t great but the school is sooooo fabulous. Idk if they offer enough aid though. Again, being female might help? We didn’t get the sense that the gender ratio was as bad as RPI and the culture suited DS much better (more balanced). 
 

idk why I thought you are in Alabama, sorry for the misunderstanding. 

No worries! Thanks for helping me think this through.

Rose Hulman would be good if she can stack merit with tuition exchange... but if not, it's still a $50K a year school for her. She has seen it and likes it.

 

 

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On 12/5/2020 at 5:24 PM, GoodGrief3 said:

@MamaSproutI do sympathize. It is quite difficult finding excellent merit for the very good, but not tippy top, student. There are many great engineering schools, but the ones like UAH that offer fantastic automatic merit are not very common. Our last college search for our tippy top student looks very different from the one for our upcoming very good student. It's a little stressful, honestly. I hope you find just the thing. I doubt admissions will be much of an issue for her, but I know paying might be a different story.

I don't know your income situation, but maybe consider one application to a school that is known for excellent need-based aid, even if you think she might not qualify. My engineer went to Princeton. We don't normally qualify for anything other than loans, but our aid there was excellent. I have shared the story of my daughter's brother-in-law, who I was helping with college apps because of his difficult family situation. I would call him a very good student and interesting person, but not tippy top. I did NOT recommend that he apply to Ivies because he did not need to waste money on apps, and it seemed unlikely that he would be admitted. The kid secretly applied to Yale, got in, and now attends for $1600/year because the school was so responsive to considering his individual circumstances in his financial aid appeal.

Take all that with a grain of salt, but wanted to throw it out there. I know nothing about your individual circumstances, but maybe it can help somebody. That said, my youngest is not applying to Ivies. Unless she does it secretly, lol.

 

 

When everyone says tippy top, we're talking perfect SAT and 4.0+, right?

 

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3 hours ago, Arch at Home said:

I have heard that S&T is affordable for out of state. Unfortunately the male/female ratio is quite skewed. 

Yes- my DD applied and was accepted.   Shes decided against it in part due to m/f ratio and also bc its such a narrow school in terms of degrees- and she also wants a bit more in terms of the town and area.  She has great aid- this week she got a letter giving her more- and is eligible for even more possible scholarships.   

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A school which doesn’t fit the traditional engineering school profile is Smith College. Smith is a women’s college in western Massachusetts. They have a small accredited engineering program. Financial aid is 100% need-based. DD2 is currently attending Smith. Her financial aid package at Smith is really good, not UAH, but better than any of the other small to mid-sized schools she applied to with the exception of our in-state school. My DD was a good student but not tiptop. 

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12 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

Yes- my DD applied and was accepted.   Shes decided against it in part due to m/f ratio and also bc its such a narrow school in terms of degrees- and she also wants a bit more in terms of the town and area.  She has great aid- this week she got a letter giving her more- and is eligible for even more possible scholarships.   

I went to a school with a very skewed M/F ratio and it turned out really really well for me. I have some of the closest female friends of my life from that time, even though there were so few women. I think, because we were engineers, we tended not to have the drama you see in normal groups of women. Actually, I can't stand the drama I see in most groups of women now. Once I realized what was going on, I started focusing friendships around women who are good at math and that's been working out better for me.

Also, I had good male friends during college, though I haven't kept in close contact with them. I got married soon after college, though that was true of a lot of couples, both Christian and non-Christian. I've read that higher numbers of males to females leads to longer term, more monogamous relationships, and that's what I've seen.

If she'd like a perspective from someone who went to a school with a skewed gender ratio, she is welcome to contact me privately.

Emily

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In our case, the gender ratio isn't really a problem. We see it more as an advantage, at least in admissions. One of my degrees was in a program that was literally 90% male. I was never uncomfortable and made some great friends. Industry was another matter (not engineering).

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On 12/5/2020 at 3:35 PM, MamaSprout said:

I wish she would look at Princeton, but she won't look at any true Ivies. With her love of languages and engineering, I think it would be a long shot, but a potential fit. 

When everyone says tippy top, we're talking perfect SAT and 4.0+, right?

She'll be close to a 4.0 (at least so far, although AP Lang might be a very time-consuming B). Not sure about SAT, though. She took it in middle school because it was the easiest test for us to do, but not since then. She'll do the PSAT on the January test date.

When I say "tippy top", I mean high GPA and scores, but also leadership, strong writing skills, quality consistent community involvement and extracurriculars. My youngest has the 4.0, and can probably get the test scores up, but is missing a lot of the other pieces (which is fine :-) ) There are not enough spaces at the Ivies (and similar) for all the valedictorians to attend. It does come down to other factors, and that's the part that is hard to predict. And sometimes the other factors can overcome less-than-top-tier academics

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13 hours ago, MEmama said:

Fwiw I was wrong about Case—DH just informed me they give  100% need based aid. I had Case and Rose mixed up, apparently. Just wanted to throw that out there! 

Case lists several merit scholarships on their website. It does not appear to be just need-based.

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My DD was offered fairly generous merit scholarship by Case (in 2016), but opted to attend elsewhere. She didn’t have tippy top scores/GPA/APs, but was very solid and was a recruited athlete (D3, so no athletic scholarship, but I’m sure it factored into her offer). Iirc, she was offered $22-24K, which still left a lot to pay as the school is expensive!

Ironically, her first job out of undergrad is in Cleveland, so she’s living in University Circle anyway. She loves the area for its many outdoor recreation/natural areas and museums. She also doesn’t mind the heavy snowfall! They just got a 15-18” snowstorm. It was quite beautiful if you’re a winter lover.

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Is this the thread that touched on Aeronautical Engineering, in addition to Case in Cleveland?

First, about Case. I come from a Software Engineering background in Aerospace.  My memory tells me that over the years I read a number of good things about Case.  Well worth checking out IMO.

Secondly, if this is the thread that touched on Aeronautical Engineering, I want to throw into the pot, with reservations, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.  https://erau.edu/  My reservations, from looking at it a few years ago are that it is not selective, and also Merit and Need Based Aid may be limited. On the other hand,d for Aeronautical it could be awesome?

Third is this list of schools for Aeronautical, which is a good place to begin:

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate-aerospace-aeronautical-astronautical

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And UAH got back to me- they do have a way to weight AP/ DE classes, it’s jut not obvious in the instructions. So UAH isn’t off the table.

This has been a good thread. We did get a couple more schools on dd’s list. She has a good variety of schools, most with good options fo merit.

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On 12/5/2020 at 4:24 PM, GoodGrief3 said:

@MamaSproutI do sympathize. It is quite difficult finding excellent merit for the very good, but not tippy top, student. There are many great engineering schools, but the ones like UAH that offer fantastic automatic merit are not very common.  

Sadly, UAH's automatic merit has become much less fantastic over the past four years. My dd graduated in spring - if she were going in now, we would be paying more than triple the amount! Which, granted, is still not a high amount for out-of-state by any means, but I remain very grateful for our timing, lol. 

You can see the current OOS matrix here.

OP, one thing to keep in mind is that engineering students at UAH can usually easily obtain decent-paying jobs that work around their school schedule, even as freshman. As upperclassmen, many well-paying co-ops are available. This was a few years ago, but one of dd's engineering friends once gave someone a ride to a job interview and sat in the waiting area. Someone came out and asked if he was there for an interview, he said 'no' and they said, well, would you like to be here for an interview? And they interviewed him and gave him a job. There are just tons of engineering jobs in Huntsville, and the companies like to get a look at the students early on. 

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Just a note that I would stay tuned about UAH merit aid. My ds applied as an OOS student for fall 2021 and he would have had full tuition based on last year’s matrix. They adjusted it for this year and it wasn’t such a great deal anymore. Then he got a letter a few weeks later that they were adjusting it again and he got a couple thousand more dollars. He just got a letter today. They are giving him in state tuition and an adjusted scholarship amount that equals full tuition. So after a couple adjustments he is back to the merit aid he thought he would have when he applied. (Full tuition for OOS). 
 

I suspect their applications were down or the quality of applications down with the reduced merit and they are trying to get their footing with the Covid disruptions. Just wanted to mention that the merit aid situation at UAH is certainly under review. Unfortunately in the meantime my ds has moved on and has written off UAH, but it is still there for him as a good option if something goes awry with his first choice. 
 

 

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Thanks for the update, @teachermom2834!

There are certainly some departments & profs that are doing better with the covid challenges at UAH than others but, overall, there is a lot of bad word of mouth out there right now. Add to that the negative press around a campus police incident with a local high schooler that was not handled well by the University and I suspect Admissions is probably struggling a bit. 

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Interesting @RootAnn

I really haven’t followed anything regarding UAH since ds stopped considering it but we did enjoy our visit there. I also figured since ds has not applied for any competitive scholarships or the honors program they might be able to guess he isn’t really interested anymore. And if they are seeing that from alot of the higher stat kids they might be revisiting scholarships again. 

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1 hour ago, JoJosMom said:

I have been gone for a while, but my DD is a freshman at UAH, should anyone have questions. As for the OP, you might want to check out UT Dallas. It was my daughter's favorite, but it got crossed off the list because it does not offer Russian language instruction.

My dd is a freshman at UT Dallas.  She's there on their very generous National Merit scholarship, but I believe it's pretty expensive for OOS students unless they get merit aid.  

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Yes, UT-Dallas was one of DS's faves, def. a nerd vibe and heavy science focus, which he really liked. If you have a National Merit Finalist it's a great deal, probably $$$$ otherwise for out of state kids.

Another one on DS's list was Purdue, for aerospace engineering, but he ended up not going that direction, so I don't know about their financial offerings or really much about it at all, at this point.

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12 minutes ago, Kassia said:

My dd is a freshman at UT Dallas.  She's there on their very generous National Merit scholarship, but I believe it's pretty expensive for OOS students unless they get merit aid.  

Ah, good information. I just remembered that they had excellent merit aid; I did not recall the specifics.

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On 12/14/2020 at 3:10 PM, TarynB said:

Yes, UT-Dallas was one of DS's faves, def. a nerd vibe and heavy science focus, which he really liked. If you have a National Merit Finalist it's a great deal, probably $$$$ otherwise for out of state kids.

Another one on DS's list was Purdue, for aerospace engineering, but he ended up not going that direction, so I don't know about their financial offerings or really much about it at all, at this point.

They have an excellent NMF scholarship, but do give other merit awards as well.

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6 hours ago, GoodGrief3 said:

They have an excellent NMF scholarship, but do give other merit awards as well.

Yes, they do!  Their Academic Excellence Scholarship (AES) is very generous, but it is getting more and more competitive each year with less money given.  

 

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15 hours ago, GoodGrief3 said:

They have an excellent NMF scholarship, but do give other merit awards as well.

You're right, they do. I might be misremembering or it may have changed, but I think UTD's AES scholarship brings tuition down to in-state cost for OOS recipients, and covers fees as well, but does not cover any portion of housing - ? (Housing is almost half the total cost, IIRC.) Also, I believe UTD does NOT allow stacking of scholarships. I don't remember all the details bc DS would have gotten the NMF scholarship instead of the AES, but worth looking into for sure.

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7 hours ago, JoJosMom said:

The bolded part seems to be rather universal, unfortunately.

UAH's NMF offer for this year's seniors dropped so much that I told DD that I might not have even included UAH on her list of NM schools to apply to. She was chagrinned to hear that I probably would have put U Alabama on it instead.

I have three more kids to help find inexpensive colleges and it is getting harder & harder!

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On 12/14/2020 at 1:43 PM, teachermom2834 said:

Just a note that I would stay tuned about UAH merit aid. My ds applied as an OOS student for fall 2021 and he would have had full tuition based on last year’s matrix. They adjusted it for this year and it wasn’t such a great deal anymore. Then he got a letter a few weeks later that they were adjusting it again and he got a couple thousand more dollars. He just got a letter today. They are giving him in state tuition and an adjusted scholarship amount that equals full tuition. So after a couple adjustments he is back to the merit aid he thought he would have when he applied. (Full tuition for OOS). 
 

I suspect their applications were down or the quality of applications down with the reduced merit and they are trying to get their footing with the Covid disruptions. Just wanted to mention that the merit aid situation at UAH is certainly under review. Unfortunately in the meantime my ds has moved on and has written off UAH, but it is still there for him as a good option if something goes awry with his first choice. 
 

 

How long did it take to get an award letter? My son was accepted about a month ago by email, with the promise of paperwork to follow and hasn't gotten anything other than a suggestion to apply to the Honors college. 

Is he missing seeing something in the online account? 

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8 minutes ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

How long did it take to get an award letter? My son was accepted about a month ago by email, with the promise of paperwork to follow and hasn't gotten anything other than a suggestion to apply to the Honors college. 

Is he missing something in the online account? 

I’m honestly not sure. He applied back when it opened in August. I think he got a letter within a couple weeks with the acceptance and initial scholarship (the automatic amount that is posted online). I’m pretty sure it was less than a month but it was early on when they likely had less applications. 

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My DD applied super early and got her initial award letter about a month later. She has gotten two revisions since, one a few weeks after the initial, and another just this past week. The last came only days after her honors college acceptance, making me think that applying for the honors college might have triggered it. At this point, pre-competitive aid, UAH is comparable with in-state schools for her. 

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7 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

How long did it take to get an award letter? My son was accepted about a month ago by email, with the promise of paperwork to follow and hasn't gotten anything other than a suggestion to apply to the Honors college. 

Is he missing seeing something in the online account? 

Nothing in snailmail? I'd have him check that his snail mail address is correct.

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On 12/17/2020 at 11:29 AM, Dmmetler said:

My DD applied super early and got her initial award letter about a month later. She has gotten two revisions since, one a few weeks after the initial, and another just this past week. The last came only days after her honors college acceptance, making me think that applying for the honors college might have triggered it. At this point, pre-competitive aid, UAH is comparable with in-state schools for her. 

 

On 12/17/2020 at 3:30 PM, RootAnn said:

Nothing in snailmail? I'd have him check that his snail mail address is correct.

Thank you both. We finally found the award letter and [cough] he also pulled out the snail mail packet that both of us had seen and forgotten about.

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1 hour ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

 

Thank you both. We finally found the award letter and [cough] he also pulled out the snail mail packet that both of us had seen and forgotten about.

The amount of “college mail” that comes in makes that perfectly understandable.

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14 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

The amount of “college mail” that comes in makes that perfectly understandable.

The package was pretty light on info. It did not include what I would consider an award letter, showing direct costs against aid and a remaining cost to be paid. There was a mention of the score based merit scholarship in the middle of a paragraph in the admissions letter. 

He submitted the centralized scholarship application a week ago. Hopefully a more formal financial offet letter will follow. 

It may be that this is the only aid he gets. As an Educational Consultant, I am looking for an award letter that is more transparent about cost of attendance. 

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5 hours ago, Sebastian (a lady) said:

The package was pretty light on info. It did not include what I would consider an award letter, showing direct costs against aid and a remaining cost to be paid. There was a mention of the score based merit scholarship in the middle of a paragraph in the admissions letter. 

He submitted the centralized scholarship application a week ago. Hopefully a more formal financial offet letter will follow. 

It may be that this is the only aid he gets. As an Educational Consultant, I am looking for an award letter that is more transparent about cost of attendance. 

In our experience, most of our award letters have come in the spring. It  has been common for my boys to get an acceptance with an automatic scholarship award or an acceptance followed by an automatic award shortly after. Then, later in the process, a full award letter would come showing the full costs and aid. I do feel like one of my kids got an award letter with an acceptance from one school but that one we got adjusted award letters throughout the year. So, while I am sure some schools send award letters early, our experience has been that most do it like UAH has done with an initial scholarship with the acceptance and full aid packages to come later. 

We didn't do ED anywhere but I feel like those usually come with award letters? 

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