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How isolated is safe?


Level of isolation and COVID   

24 members have voted

  1. 1. How isolated was the most isolated person you know who still got COVID?

    • Everyone in their bubble avoided ALL indoor interactions; groceries were delivered; doctor's appointments were deferred.
      2
    • Everyone in their bubble always stayed home, except for doctor's appointments.
      1
    • Everyone in their bubble always stayed home, except for doctor's appointments and the store.
      2
    • Everyone in their bubble always stayed home, except for work, doctor's appointments, and the store.
      8
    • Someone in their bubble interacted with people indoors (went to restaurants, or other people's houses, or events.)
      11


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I've been curious about what it means when people say they know people staying locked down who got COVID anyway. 

Note that the questions refer to one's "bubble." So, for example, if you always stay home and never interact with anyone, but someone in your household works, you'd have to rank the level of isolation by that person and not by yourself. If you are podding with friends, and one of the friends goes to restaurants, you'd have to rank your bubble by that, even if you aren't going to restaurants yourself. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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This is the problem. Careful means what I’m doing....to everyone. The best example I have read is comparing COVID risk to spending. What does frugal mean? My friend goes on tons of vacations, but she almost fainted once when she saw what I spend on groceries.  
 

Everyone thinks they are the right degree of careful, or they would be doing things differently. 
 

I have been very shocked by how friends define “Bubble”. 

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've been curious about what it means when people say they know people being careful who got COVID anyway. 

Note that the questions refer to one's "bubble." So, for example, if you always stay home and never interact with anyone, but someone in your household works, you'd have to rank the level of carefulness by that person and not by yourself. If you are podding with friends, and one of the friends goes to restaurants, you'd have to rank your bubble by that, even if you aren't going to restaurants yourself. 

A 30 something friend was as careful as she could be....but she is a hair dresser and even masked with customers masked she got it.  My theory is that she got it while doing eyelashes.but who knows.

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My answer would make it seem the person is more careful than he actually was. My nephew went to work and the store and caught it early on...in April. However, his work as a pastor morphed into him starting up a program in NYC to feed people who were unemployed due to Covid, while helping restaurants also make some money so they could stay in business. So he was ‘at work’ but in the community working w restaurants, other organizers, and drumming up sponsors to help fund it. So his work exposed him to a LOT of people.  Way different than a person going to work and being socially distanced but around the same few coworkers every day.
The people I know who caught it haven’t been very careful although they think they are. I only personally know a handful who have had it.  But when a person is attending indoor weddings, eating  inside restaurants at a table w people not from their household, attending rallies, and attending Thanksgiving dinner with 20+ people, are they really being  careful? 

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I kind of don't like the wording of 'careful' when most people don't have a choice about going in to work - they aren't choosing to be less careful than those of us privileged enough to work from home, kwim? Same for many doctor's appointments; some people can skip that annual checkup with ease, others absolutely have to go to the doctor. 

How isolated was the most isolated person you know who still got covid, maybe? 

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This is ongoing in my extended family: elderly person never left her house since March (79 years old) because she has a heart condition and was scared of Covid, she lives alone in an in-law apartment building on the property of her son. Everything, including her meals and all her needs were left on her doorstep by her family and she used phones to talk to everyone and saw people through closed glass windows at a distance. She fell, fractured her foot, was taken to the hospital, told the doctor that she had felt dizzy for a few days, doctor decides to run a Covid test and it came back positive. Nobody knows how she got it. 

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I live in a rural area. There is no grocery delivery here other than friends going to the store for you. You have to drive to the bigger town for grocery pickup to be an option. Many people here have no work-at-home option.

That said, I know many people who likely contracted it at work, some masked  (where one-layer bandanas are considered adequate), some others have had to interact with unmasked people due to no mask ordinance until recently. 

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Can we stop trying to rate people and assign people a score based on how they’re handling covid?     
Aside from a very few (in the grand scheme of things), most people are trying to do their best according to their own set of circumstances.  We have no idea what their set of circumstances are, so maybe it’s best to just give grace when someone gets covid or when we see someone not masked properly or whatever. Obviously, I’m not talking about someone like the oncology nurse who bragged about having play dates and traveling and not masking.  Obviously it’s difficult to give grace to the (very few) people like that.  But for the vast majority of the population, do we really need to be so flipping judgemental?     It’s just gross. 

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I don’t want to put a vote in because I don’t know the people I’m thinking of well enough to ask them so directly “But did you ____” or to necessarily believe them when they say or post or I hear through the grapevine that they did *nothing. I don’t think all people are sharing with acquaintances that there was one or two times that they ____, yk?

I do know that my son has tried to be as careful as he could. He quit a job in the spring because they weren’t taking proper precautions. He has a new job and has been in conflict with his employer over precautions. His previous two exposures were from saying goodbye to his dying grandmother and making her final arrangements, but he didn’t contract it then.  He got it from his father, who got it in his office, and I am NOT close enough to him to ask the details of his office’s protocols.  They are in Florida, so I doubt they’re great.

As far as I know, everyone in his house has stayed home except for work, school (ds’s brothers), and curbside pick ups, with the additional exception of dealing with a death a few weeks back.  But I can’t say with full certainty that his father or stepmother never ever went anywhere else.

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I don’t know anyone IRL who can just stay home. Very few jobs in my area are able to be done remotely and the couple of people I know who might have that possibility live rurally without high speed internet access.  I only know one parent who chose the 100% virtual school option; everyone else has to work and chose hybrid or does not have access to high speed internet. The 40% of kids in my locaL school district who don’t have access to high speed internet at home are doing their three virtual days a week at friends houses, family members houses, or at one of the local churches that has opened their doors.  The school district is giving up on hybrid in January. Parents are overwhelmingly demanding full time in person instruction, and they’ve determined through surveys that kids are still gathering on off days for childcare or internet reasons.

My grandmother has stayed home completely except for doctor’s appointments. She doesn’t have access to internet or cell service in the rural community she lives in; so no access to telemedicine. She’s dying of Parkinson’s and can’t just skip doctor’s appointments.  There are no grocery or food delivery services in my town: no Instacart, Grubhub or Doordash.  If you wanted food until early October; you went in the store. Walmart just started pickup service.   Fire and EMS service is almost 100% volunteer in my town too; so if your house catches on fire or you fall and break a hip, you aren’t getting dedicated professionals, you are getting people who work another job and have exposures there as well as while volunteering. That’s double exposure too.  Rural life is just so different with what we have available. Staying home for months on end isn’t possible.

I probably know, estimated 35-40 people who have had Covid by now. All but two were workplace clusters. The other two are a minister and his wife who caught it from a child in the daycare she runs.

Edited by Mrs Tiggywinkle
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1 hour ago, Choirfarm3 said:

Yeah, this thread  feels icky to me as well. Sort of feels like shaming a girl who was raped. Were you drinking? Was your blouse low cut? If you had just taken the proper precautions, this wouldn't have happened.  

I’m not trying to shame anyone. I’m just curious how useful various levels of precaution are. 

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6 hours ago, mathnerd said:

This is ongoing in my extended family: elderly person never left her house since March (79 years old) because she has a heart condition and was scared of Covid, she lives alone in an in-law apartment building on the property of her son. Everything, including her meals and all her needs were left on her doorstep by her family and she used phones to talk to everyone and saw people through closed glass windows at a distance. She fell, fractured her foot, was taken to the hospital, told the doctor that she had felt dizzy for a few days, doctor decides to run a Covid test and it came back positive. Nobody knows how she got it. 

Whoa. That’s scary and mysterious.

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4 hours ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Can we stop trying to rate people and assign people a score based on how they’re handling covid?     
Aside from a very few (in the grand scheme of things), most people are trying to do their best according to their own set of circumstances.  We have no idea what their set of circumstances are, so maybe it’s best to just give grace when someone gets covid or when we see someone not masked properly or whatever. Obviously, I’m not talking about someone like the oncology nurse who bragged about having play dates and traveling and not masking.  Obviously it’s difficult to give grace to the (very few) people like that.  But for the vast majority of the population, do we really need to be so flipping judgemental?     It’s just gross. 

I did not read it as judgmental at all.  I read it as curious if people really are contracting  it when they are taking steps to be careful.  

Edited by Scarlett
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DD's friend who died of COVID probably caught it when she had to go to the ER for a medication reaction. Another friend's mother probably caught it at church and died. This was early summer when everyone was so excited to go back, and there were multiple cases in their congregation at the same time. Most of the other people I know who have caught it, almost certainly caught it at  work. One of DD's former teammates probably caught it from her teacher (in-person school) and spread it to her WAH parents. 

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7 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I did not read it as judgmental at all.  I read it as curious if people really are contracting  it when they are taking steps to be careful.  

Yeah, that’s all I wanted to know. We’re still pretty locked down and I was curious if that’s failing for lots of people. But I know we’re privileged to be able to do that.

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7 hours ago, mathnerd said:

This is ongoing in my extended family: elderly person never left her house since March (79 years old) because she has a heart condition and was scared of Covid, she lives alone in an in-law apartment building on the property of her son. Everything, including her meals and all her needs were left on her doorstep by her family and she used phones to talk to everyone and saw people through closed glass windows at a distance. She fell, fractured her foot, was taken to the hospital, told the doctor that she had felt dizzy for a few days, doctor decides to run a Covid test and it came back positive. Nobody knows how she got it. 

This is similar to my sister in law.  She has multiple ongoing health problems and no immune system, is isolated in her bedroom and doesn't even see husband or son.  Never leaves.  Somehow she got it.  Twice now, second time it was probably from her son who helped her one day when she was having some problems.  Speculation is maybe the dogs, or on one of the boxes of supplies, or gifts people dropped off.  First time both husband and son had no symptoms, tested negative, and tested negative to antibodies.

 

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4 minutes ago, Splash1 said:

This is similar to my sister in law.  She has multiple ongoing health problems and no immune system, is isolated in her bedroom and doesn't even see husband or son.  Never leaves.  Somehow she got it.  Twice now, second time it was probably from her son who helped her one day when she was having some problems.  Speculation is maybe the dogs, or on one of the boxes of supplies, or gifts people dropped off.  First time both husband and son had no symptoms, tested negative, and tested negative to antibodies.

 

Wow. She got it twice? Is she ok?

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DS had Covid at the end of May (and DH and I both had mild symptoms that were easy to overlook). He hadn’t left the house—not even to go for a run or chauffeur me anywhere—since early/mid March. Neither had DH, except to go on neighborhood walks. Absolutely not one public place for either of them for 6+ weeks prior.

I had gone grocery shopping (started masking there in early March IIRC) and to my office, where I worked only with my boss. He was a proud conspiracy theorist and anti masker and made a point of mocking my precautions (masking at work, generous use of Lysol) and flouting his ignorance. He violated state mandates for masking and social distancing in offices, frequently intentionally coming as close to me as possible. The office is the only really possible exposure point. (I quit when he threatened to fire me for receiving doctors orders to quarantine for 2 weeks after DS's diagnosis).
 

DH and I would have overlooked our mild symptoms (fever/severe, long lasting hot flashes for me, mild upset stomachs for both of us) if it hadn’t been for DS’s Covid toes. 

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1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I did not read it as judgmental at all.  I read it as curious if people really are contracting  it when they are taking steps to be careful.  

Same here. I think it’s a good question. It’s interesting, and I just it took as someone is curious to know if there are people out there who took precautions and still got COVID.

 

 

Edited by Indigo Blue
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It's so hard to know what other people mean by 'being careful'. One says they wore masks everywhere - but then you discover they didn't to church.  I have friends who say they are being careful, but when it gets close to the end of their quarantine (for positive tests or another family member is positive and they've been sick), they go visit relatives or go to store because of something they need. My definition of COVID careful is obviously different than theirs. Now, I do realize that we all have our spectrum of being COVID careful, and I'm good with that. I do some things that others here won't do, and won't do things others here will do.  

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4 hours ago, Thatboyofmine said:

Can we stop trying to rate people and assign people a score based on how they’re handling covid?     
Aside from a very few (in the grand scheme of things), most people are trying to do their best according to their own set of circumstances.  We have no idea what their set of circumstances are, so maybe it’s best to just give grace when someone gets covid or when we see someone not masked properly or whatever. Obviously, I’m not talking about someone like the oncology nurse who bragged about having play dates and traveling and not masking.  Obviously it’s difficult to give grace to the (very few) people like that.  But for the vast majority of the population, do we really need to be so flipping judgemental?     It’s just gross. 

Collecting and analyzing data is how we (as a society- I’m not a statistician) learn about the spread of disease as it relates to beliefs and behaviors. I’m fairly certain that’s the OP's intent. There is such a focus on individuals doing what they feel is best and safest for themselves and their families. How are individuals supposed to evaluate and decide which activities (like a walk in the park or going to the library) they are comfortable doing if they don’t have some information about the behaviors of others? 
 

Number, I really appreciate your threads and your analysis of the situation. I live in an area where most of the people I see aren’t masking, and many of those who are are doing so improperly- not covering nose, taking it on and off repeatedly, etc..- so it is helpful for me to see these threads and know that there are places where it is being taken more seriously than it is in my city.

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20 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Apartment buildings often have shared ventilations.

Yes, which is currently worrying me — we do live in apartments. But I haven’t heard of too many apartment building outbreaks. 

There was also that weird case in New Zealand where people lived on the same block but didn’t know each other... one does wonder how things spread in these rare cases!!

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’m not trying to shame anyone. I’m just curious how useful various levels of precaution are. 

I chose to respond in the spirit of the question rather than parsing the word choice, but the word choice *is a little problematic and can probably be avoided in the future.

I mean, it doesn’t feel right to say my household is less cautious having a working EMT in the family.  I think I’m taking *more precautions because of it.
Or that my mom is taking less precautions because her husband has life-dependent medical appointments on a frequent basis while the granddaughter she raised has to visit outside, masked, and at a distance.

The intent is valid, for sure. But the wording incorporates a level of choice that isn’t actually there for many, many people.

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1 minute ago, Carrie12345 said:

I chose to respond in the spirit of the question rather than parsing the word choice, but the word choice *is a little problematic and can probably be avoided in the future.

I mean, it doesn’t feel right to say my household is less cautious having a working EMT in the family.  I think I’m taking *more precautions because of it.
Or that my mom is taking less precautions because her husband has life-dependent medical appointments on a frequent basis while the granddaughter she raised has to visit outside, masked, and at a distance.

The intent is valid, for sure. But the wording incorporates a level of choice that isn’t actually there for many, many people.

Yeah, I’m sorry about that. Should I edit? 

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  • Not_a_Number changed the title to How isolated is safe?

Ok, I edited to “isolated.” I sincerely apologize for the judgment implicit in the original question. I do NOT judge anyone who has to go out to work right now (although I wish fewer people had to, and I also wish we had gotten control of this raging pandemic so that working wasn’t as risky.)

Edited by Not_a_Number
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This does remind me of my mom making a few comments about people choosing 'work over their life.'  I called her on it several times--I said, 'mom, how are people suppose to feed their kids and pay for their housing?'  I reminded her that not everyone has the option of staying home and collecting a pension.  She did finally quit saying it.  

I am thankful my job requires very little contact with the public.  I had one customer in the lobby yesterday. As of this week we have a sign on the door requiring masks.  She came in without one....I could tell she did not even see the sign.  I found the courage to tell her we are requiring masks and she quickly apologized and went back and got her mask.  

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34 minutes ago, I talk to the trees said:

Collecting and analyzing data is how we (as a society- I’m not a statistician) learn about the spread of disease as it relates to beliefs and behaviors. I’m fairly certain that’s the OP's intent. There is such a focus on individuals doing what they feel is best and safest for themselves and their families. How are individuals supposed to evaluate and decide which activities (like a walk in the park or going to the library) they are comfortable doing if they don’t have some information about the behaviors of others? 
 

Number, I really appreciate your threads and your analysis of the situation. I live in an area where most of the people I see aren’t masking, and many of those who are are doing so improperly- not covering nose, taking it on and off repeatedly, etc..- so it is helpful for me to see these threads and know that there are places where it is being taken more seriously than it is in my city.

I had to go in WM  yesterday and I would say 75% of the employees were wearing masks VERY improperly.  In fact, I am to the point I want to complain about it to the manager.

 

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I’ve only known two people who have had it and they are both college students. They got it through one of their boyfriends who has to works outside the home everyday. They are both fine. I think they’ve all been rather careful. They do get together here and there but I think it’s important for them not to feel too isolated. I know it’s been very important for my dc to still have small get togethers with their friends. It’s a balance and I think they’ve found a healthy one. 

I actually have a lot of family that has continued to travel and go out quite often through all of this, including my mom who works in our largest hospital here. I feel like I was really judgmental in the beginning, but I’ve let that go. I do worry about them more, though. 

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re unavoidable risk

40 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Apartment buildings often have shared ventilations.

This.  And big box stores and large supermarkets have few windows and one HVAC system.  However unavoidable it may be to enter any building where the air is shared -- I really do understand how unavoidable it is for many people, in many circumstances -- there is still contagion risk.  Risk of contracting (even with a mask), risk of spreading (even if asymptomatic).

 

18 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, which is currently worrying me — we do live in apartments. But I haven’t heard of too many apartment building outbreaks. 

There was also that weird case in New Zealand where people lived on the same block but didn’t know each other... one does wonder how things spread in these rare cases!!

Don't mean to make you more crazy: there seemed to be one in my eldest's boyfriend's building (one of those old high-ceiling 8 story brownstones in Brooklyn Heights). Contact tracing efforts were erratic, but after no cases all through March and April, there was a cluster of 10+ in late October. right around the time the weather turned (a/c is through the window, heat is central).

It makes sense that older apartment building systems are less efficient in truly exchanging the air.

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12 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Don't mean to make you more crazy: there seemed to be one in my eldest's boyfriend's building (one of those old high-ceiling 8 story brownstones in Brooklyn Heights). Contact tracing efforts were erratic, but after no cases all through March and April, there was a cluster of 10+ in late October. right around the time the weather turned (a/c is through the window, heat is central).

It makes sense that older apartment building systems are less efficient in truly exchanging the air.

Crud. No, it’s good to know. So, heat was not radiator heat? It was centrally heated air? And could it have been elevators or common rooms or no?

We’re in a building right now — a small building with 4 units. It’s a new building with central air. I’m hoping that’s fine 😕 . I’ve definitely heard of fewer cases through buildings than one would expect, given how many people live in buildings, but this is making me nervous.

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The only person I know who has gotten covid is my younger son, who got it, he believes, when he ate unmasked in the dining hall at college.  What the heck was he thinking, you might ask?  Yes, well, I had that question too, but I didn't phrase it as nicely.  Anyway, he recovered and is now home until the end of January.

I've heard of people through friends who have gotten covid in spite of "never" going anywhere, but invariably it comes out that a person in the household had significant contact with people on the outside.

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6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Crud. No, it’s good to know. So, heat was not radiator heat? It was centrally heated air? And could it have been elevators or common rooms or no?

We’re in a building right now — a small building with 4 units. It’s a new building with central air. I’m hoping that’s fine 😕 . I’ve definitely heard of fewer cases through buildings than one would expect, given how many people live in buildings, but this is making me nervous.

Do you have your own HVAC unit or is it shared for the building? Could you buy a filter that could provide more protection? 

 

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2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Wow. She got it twice? Is she ok?

Not really,  She now has congestive heart failure diagnosis and some other damage due to Covid to add to all her other pre existing conditions like POTs, chronic Lyme, etc. She isn't even 40 yet

 

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I might have found the question icky if I didn't know that Not A Number is very analytical and likes (?not sure likes is the word) data.   I have been told I come across unfriendly or rudely because I tend to be very matter of fact and not flowery in the way I talk and ask questions sometimes.  

Anyway, I don't know anyone who was positive well enough to ask these questions.  My aunt died a few months back of Covid but she worked as a CNA.   I do know people who think they are being careful but they have eaten indoors at least once or twice, they go shopping, they may meet up with a small group of friends (not a pod) for dinner, etc. 

To me careful means only doing what is essential - work, groceries/pharmacy shopping, possibly other things for health (including mental health but I think to some people taking care of their mental health means living life like there's no pandemic). 

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In the community, the most isolated person I know who has caught COVID was in a bubble with people who were leaving the house to go to work and the store, but nothing else (no medical appointments occurred during the potential infection window). That person is 95% sure it was picked up at the store, because in that phase of the virus, they were struggling to locate any shops bothering to uphold the masking law in their area (I should say this person does not live in the USA, and they have since found a suitably safe store) and the workplace of the person in bubble who was working was taking a lot of COVID precautions.

However, I know quite a few people in care homes who didn't leave their rooms and still got COVID. That's a bit trickier, since depending on definition of "bubble", they may be support-bubbling with staff, who obviously can't be isolating to the same extent they are...

 

(Hearteningly, I also know someone who hunkered down when they saw their fellow dorm members weren't following good practise. This was successful, resulting in her being the only person on that dorm floor who did not get COVID. That person is currently waiting to see if their family starts following COVID best practise as a result).

Edited by ieta_cassiopeia
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I saw a post on Twitter yesterday from an oncologist who said that her long-time isolating cancer patients are now testing positive. She said that, although they have been isolating, there is so much community spread that loved ones (who have tried to be careful, but still have to work, grocery shop, etc.) are passing it on to her patients in greater numbers. I know that we have been saying this for awhile, but it's statistically truer than ever -- you really have to assume that every person you meet is Covid positive.

Just in the past week, I've had several friends message me to ask what to do because they found out that they are Covid positive, one friend lost her husband (mid 40s, no comorbidities), one friend's husband is on week 10 of his long recovery after an ICU stay, and another's mother was just put on a vent. I am sure that most Americans are starting to feel the circle tightening on them, at this point, if they haven't yet been personally affected already. And, as everyone has been saying, it is still going to get worse. Johns Hopkins reported 3,157 US deaths (highest number of deaths in one day since the beginning of the pandemic) and another 200,070 cases yesterday. That's another 3,600 dead Americans in about 22 days (and likely upwards of 60,000 additional deaths between now and then). For context, 2,977 perished on 9/11.

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1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, which is currently worrying me — we do live in apartments. But I haven’t heard of too many apartment building outbreaks. 

There was also that weird case in New Zealand where people lived on the same block but didn’t know each other... one does wonder how things spread in these rare cases!!

I recall one such case being traced to dustbin lids. I live in a building split into 4 flats, where I only know any members of 2 out of my 3 neighbours. We have an unspoken, informal rota for the bins, where one person takes them out and another puts them back (we've sort of noticed that 3 people, in the entire building, do anything with the bins).

 

So if someone brings back the bins someone else took out (especially if it was shortly after the bin was emptied),

and the weather is dodgy (in dry, warm weather, the half-"life" of the virus is under 5 minutes, but that rises considerably if it is cold and/or damp),

and that person forgets to wash their hands before carrying on with their day (something it's advisable to do after handling bins regardless of pandemics),

then it's possible to catch COVID-19 that way, without knowing the neighbour. (It's hypothetically possible to catch it from the refuse workers that way too, though given the PPE they use it would take a lot of bad luck).

Edited by ieta_cassiopeia
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4 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Just in the past week, I've had several friends message me to ask what to do because they found out that they are Covid positive, one friend lost her husband (mid 40s, no comorbidities), one friend's husband is on week 10 of his long recovery after an ICU stay, and another's mother was just put on a vent. I am sure that most Americans are starting to feel the circle tightening on them, at this point, if they haven't yet been personally affected already. 

Yes. Circle tightening on me is exactly how I feel. I'm currently trying to figure out if I should do something about the fact that we live in an apartment, if we should stop getting takeout, if we should wipe down our groceries more... The list is endless. 

Things aren't that bad locally right now, but it's probably prudent to assume they'll get worse. 

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43 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Do you have your own HVAC unit or is it shared for the building? Could you buy a filter that could provide more protection? 

I don't know. We should ask -- good point. 

We have air purifiers that we left back in our apartment in NYC, and maybe we should bring those back when we pick up my sister after her quarantine. 

48 minutes ago, EKS said:

The only person I know who has gotten covid is my younger son, who got it, he believes, when he ate unmasked in the dining hall at college.  What the heck was he thinking, you might ask?  Yes, well, I had that question too, but I didn't phrase it as nicely.  Anyway, he recovered and is now home until the end of January.

Oh, I didn't realize he had COVID! Sorry to hear. Did he have a relatively mild case? 

(And teens, you know... hard to expect rationality, lol.) 

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I think it's more of a "you can't get your risk to zero, but you can get it low". While I cannot say zero people get it from wiped-down groceries, I suspect it's a lot lower than the number who didn't wipe it down or take other precautions, or forgot to do it that one time. Consistency may be more important than taking out the last possible %. Pandemic burnout is a thing (and may be the cause of some pandemic apathy out there).

 

Takeout can be wiped down, at which point it should be as safe as regular groceries provided you pick somewhere with good hygeine practices. (Phoning places and asking seems like a good move).

 

Thinking about risk is good. However, good core practices are helpful for avoiding it. If you had asked me about the average person I know who's had COVID, rather than the most precaution-taking, I'd have answered with a good solid category 4 (because COVID-unsafe workplaces, getting drunk in the pub and illegal parties/gatherings are the three biggest sources I've seen between lockdowns).

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2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, I didn't realize he had COVID! Sorry to hear. Did he have a relatively mild case?

His case was extremely mild, and all of the covid-specific symptoms resolved by day 7.   But around day 8 he got what we think now was a run of the mill cold.  He was in the covid dorm, and of course, even though they were required to mask, they didn't, so it wouldn't be surprising if other diseases were also running rampant.  Anyway, it's now been 23 days since he tested positive.  I'm hoping that he is no longer contagious since he's here in the house with us, and I was overruled on the subject of masking in the house.  

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