s/o Vaccine - required? voluntary? for various jobs/people

[RootAnn]

In a related but not exactly the same as the Covid class thread, what do you think of the possibility of some employers requiring the covid vaccine? (There is still debate on whether it can be required legally, but let's assume there is a possibility it could be required as long as there was not a medical reason that it couldn't be given.)

After health care workers & nursing home residents are voluntarily allowed to receive the vaccine, should certain types of employees be required to get it? 

What about colleges (since most of the vaccines haven't been tested on children yet) requiring it? Airlines? Service providers requiring it for clients before they will allow them in for appointments? Doctor's offices making them mandatory for further treatment? Hospitals requiring them before elective surgery? 

What will you think of someone who decides not to get the vaccine when it is offered to them?

This all assumes the vaccine would be free to those it is required of or to whom it is offered which may not be the case.

Edited December 2, 2020 by RootAnn
Added the assumption that vaccine would be free

[hippymamato3]

6 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

 

What about colleges (since most of the vaccines haven't been tested on children yet) requiring it? Airlines? Service providers requiring it for clients before they will allow them in for appointments? Doctor's offices making them mandatory for further treatment? Hospitals requiring them before elective surgery? 

 

College students aren't children...

As far as the others, I think as many people as possible should get it as soon as possible. People are dying every day in this country. I want life to get back to normal and it can't until the US gets control of the virus. As far as requiring it, I'm not sure of the legalities. 

[Arcadia]

My guess is that for companies and colleges, the covid vaccination policy would be similar to what they have for the flu vaccine and meningitis vaccine.

[1234]

My dc’s uni added the flu vaccine as mandatory this year so I would assume they will do the same for Covid.

I hope everyone who can get the vaccine will do so and I’m honestly not sure what I will think of those who choose not to. 

[TravelingChris]

In my state, it is very likely to be mandatory for many jobs.  I can guess that the military installation were both my dh and dd work will make it mandatory regardless if they are active or contractors.  

I also think that if colleges require meningitis shots, they will require Covid shots too.

 

[RootAnn]

20 minutes ago, hippymamato3 said:

College students aren't children...

That was actually my point. Sorry it wasn't clear. Elementary & even high schools are likely not going to require it in the early days since the vaccines haven't been tested on children. Since some of them were tested on 18 year olds & up, I can see colleges requiring it. I was trying to say schools - specifically colleges. 

17 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

My guess is that for companies and colleges, the covid vaccination policy would be similar to what they have for the flu vaccine and meningitis vaccine.

To my knowledge, only some health care providers require their employees to get the flu vaccine. I know there are some colleges that require certain vaccines, but I am only familiar with ones that require the MMR. [Link for schools that require MengB vaccine.] My kids haven't run across any which require any of the meningitis vaccines (of which there are at least two different types). So, are you saying it will likely be encouraged but not required?

Should it be required?

[Kinda goes back to stick or carrot]

Edited December 2, 2020 by RootAnn
Added link

[hippymamato3]

3 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

That was actually my point. Sorry it wasn't clear. Elementary & even high schools are likely not going to require it in the early days since the vaccines haven't been tested on children. Since some of them were tested on 18 year olds & up, I can see colleges requiring it. I was trying to say schools - specifically colleges. 

Should it be required?

[Kinda goes back to stick or carrot]

That makes more sense - thanks for clarifying!

[QueenCat]

It'll likely be required for int. travel, so we'll get it asap. Dh's job has been made permanent remote in the past month. He'll start traveling for work as soon as it becomes safe, so he'll be expected to vaccinate at that point too. 

[Ausmumof3]

I am pretty sure Dh will have to have it for work.  I would feel happier about compulsory vaccines if there was more data to be honest.

[teachermom2834]

The college my ds plans to attend in Fall 2021 announced months ago it would start requiring the flu shot and Covid when available. There was alot of pushback as we have a pretty significant anti vax population. But, in my personal experience, those folks don't generally attend the big state U. So I'm not sure if the people fussing the loudest are a population that likely attends that university anyway. I haven't heard of it lately and I'm not sure what exemptions will be allowed. My ds wouldn't let that stop him from attending so I think that will make the decision for him if it is required. We are regular with the flu shot anyway. So I do expect that ds to get vaccinated if available.

I feel like most of the people in my family will be strongly encourgaged to get it, if not required. 

I think my 12 yo dd is the only one I really see not getting it until it has been around longer. For dh and me he risk of Covid feels bigger than the vaccie risk. My young guys wouldn't hesitate to take the vaccine, I don't think. They have always been vaxxers in homeschool groups when it wasn't popular and I nag them to get flu shots so they would probably not hesitate to get it if their employers wanted it.  My dd I will wait on. More concerned about effects on a developing brain and body. 

[Ditto]

24 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I say that as a person who loves the privacy of HIPAA, values privacy itself and has reservations about the vaccine. But the alternative is being jail  home bound one more year, no travel to see my parents and in laws, not hug people, hold hands, eat a meal together with friends, swim in a gym, my children not in school and I am not prepared to live in that world. I have not even touched on the horrific loss of life and the long term complications of this horrible plague. I want the world to go back to normal to bring on the vaccine, reservations and all.

This is how I feel as well.  

[SeaConquest]

18 minutes ago, Dreamergal said:

I come from a region where countries mandate vaccination  and the government will launch a police investigation if you do not vaccinate even if you are a celeb (this actually happened, not hypothetical). I have always marveled that vaccines were a choice in America and I think those days are pretty much over if you ask me.

I wish I could say that I agree with you, but unfortunately, if we couldn't even find the wherewithal to mandate masks, I seriously doubt you are going to find much in the way of government mandates re vaccines. IMO, it will be left to employers, airlines, and schools to decide, in a piecemeal fashion, with no national strategy or requirement. I asked some of my coworkers, at the hospital where I work, if they planned to get the vaccine and their responses were very disconcerting. So, I am really hoping that we have employer mandates for Covid vaccines (as we do for flu) in healthcare.  

[sassenach]

I don't think you can make something mandatory until you have enough of it to go around, so I kind of expect it to be awhile before this is even a thing. Employers can make it harder to do your job but I don't think they can require a medical treatment. For example, all of the hospitals that I have been in strongly encourage the flu vax and there's a definite social stigma around it but ultimately people can opt out and do universal masking. I think Covid may be similar. The hospitals that I am intimate with aren't even hinting at anything mandatory.

On a related note, I just learned that at least one of our hospitals already has the Pfizer vaccine on campus. They are literally just waiting for the FDA approval and will be able to start vaccinating their people the next day. 

[SeaConquest]

7 minutes ago, sassenach said:

I don't think you can make something mandatory until you have enough of it to go around, so I kind of expect it to be awhile before this is even a thing. Employers can make it harder to do your job but I don't think they can require a medical treatment. For example, all of the hospitals that I have been in strongly encourage the flu vax and there's a definite social stigma around it but ultimately people can opt out and do universal masking. I think Covid may be similar. The hospitals that I am intimate with aren't even hinting at anything mandatory.

On a related note, I just learned that at least one of our hospitals already has the Pfizer vaccine on campus. They are literally just waiting for the FDA approval and will be able to start vaccinating their people the next day. 

That's true. You don't have to get the flu vax, but it's not like you can just walk around willy-nilly. You do have to wear a mask for your entire shift through the entirety of flu season. So, for Covid, you would have to mask at work forever. That would suck for a lot of people and may push them over the edge to get the vax (fingers crossed).

Edited December 2, 2020 by SeaConquest

[sassenach]

1 minute ago, SeaConquest said:

That's true. You don't have to get the flu vax, but it's not like you can just walk around willy-nilly. You do have to wear a mask for your entire shift through the entirety of flu season. So, for Covid, you would have to mask at work forever. That would suck for a lot of people and push them over the edge to get the vax. 

Yeah, but it's kind of funny that this is what we all do now, so in a way we're used to it. But having to wear a mask for all of your working hours forevermore? Bleck. That does not sound fun to me.

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

In a related but not exactly the same as the Covid class thread, what do you think of the possibility of some employers requiring the covid vaccine? (There is still debate on whether it can be required legally, but let's assume there is a possibility it could be required as long as there was not a medical reason that it couldn't be given.)

After health care workers & nursing home residents are voluntarily allowed to receive the vaccine, should certain types of employees be required to get it? 

What about colleges (since most of the vaccines haven't been tested on children yet) requiring it? Airlines? Service providers requiring it for clients before they will allow them in for appointments? Doctor's offices making them mandatory for further treatment? Hospitals requiring them before elective surgery? 

What will you think of someone who decides not to get the vaccine when it is offered to them?

This all assumes the vaccine would be free to those it is required of or to whom it is offered which may not be the case.

If the flu shot is required, then they might as well require c*vid. If they want only c*vid, that's not ok.

I will be one of those people who will refuse it. I am not ready to be vaccinated with a drug which has had such a short test lifespan. We don't even know the possible side effects. Two words: Guardicil and Thalidomide.

[SKL]

I am against requiring it, except in situations where some people, who may not be vaccinated themselves, are essentially required to be exposed to people who may have the virus.  Even then, I would not require it if the population being exposed is not a high-risk population.

I would really rather not require it at all, but given how deadly this virus is in certain populations, I think we need to prioritize their health over the liberty of those with whom they are confined.

Edited December 2, 2020 by SKL

[Hyacinth]

I'm with Ellie. There's too much we don't yet know about the virus let alone the vaccines. I'll wait, thankyouverymuch.

As for employers or colleges requiring it, yeah, it'll be a thing. It shouldn't be, but it will be.  

[SKL]

There are two sides to the vax thing.  For most people, if they believe in the vax and don't want the virus, they can get themselves and their families vaxed, and then they don't really have to care so much about what others do.  Those who can't get the vax will benefit from the likelihood that a high % of families will voluntarily get the vax.  Therefore, I believe there isn't enough reason to curtail freedom of choice for the general public.

[Pam in CT]

A great number of private colleges & universities & boarding schools already require meningitis vaccination as a condition to live in campus housing -- (once supplies are adequate) I'd expect that for COVID.

Certain occupations -- including both military and medical sector -- already require a range of vaccinations -- (once supplies are adequate) I'd expect that for COVID.

Certain countries already require proof of yellow fever vaccination for entrance -- (once supplies are adequate) I'd expect that for COVID.

 

There will be a period of adjustment, but unless the virus is fully eliminated from the world like smallpox (and: I don't expect that to happen, ever: look at us) I would also expect that in a year or two, (once supplies are adequate) private congregant residences for seniors would -- like college dorms -- require vaccination as a condition of living there.

Similarly: currently struggling sectors whose ability to regain commercial success depends on public trust and/or ability to cross national boundaries -- cruise ships, airlines, group tour travel -- would require vaccination as a condition of participating.

Depending on how people's perceptions of risk of disease, risk of vaccination, and desire to "get to normal again" all evolve, and also what additional nuances could be driven by international customers (either different personal risk assessment, or different national requirements for re-entry) I could see certain high-end/popular resort locations whose success depends on attracting international customers requiring proof of vaccination as a condition of entry.

All of which would be private and "voluntary" (in the sense of, don't like it? Don't live on campus / find another job / don't come here ... that commodious space between "fully voluntary" and "legally mandated by a governmental authority")...

None of which would be a universal federal mandate (which I strongly doubt ever) or state-level mandate (which I also doubt, but at lower intensity.  I can see states adopting mandates for public school attendance and employment, medical workers, nursing home workers, that sort of thing,)

 

That there look to be several different pretty-effective vaccine options coming in, that work in different ways, helps a lot -- people with medical contraindications to one vaccine may very well be able to take a different one.  That is fortunate.

[sassenach]

3 minutes ago, SKL said:

There are two sides to the vax thing.  For most people, if they believe in the vax and don't want the virus, they can get themselves and their families vaxed, and then they don't really have to care so much about what others do.  Those who can't get the vax will benefit from the likelihood that a high % of families will voluntarily get the vax.  Therefore, I believe there isn't enough reason to curtail freedom of choice for the general public.

I agree. No one should be forced into any medical treatment for any reason. 

Personally, I'm OVERJOYED and ready to get the vax. My son's nurse has stated that if it's mandatory for employment, she'll be retiring. It's important that people get to make their own choices.

[City Mouse]

I see nothing wrong with employers in certain fields requiring it. I also do not have any problem with colleges or even k12 schools (once it is approved for children) requiring it. 

 

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

 For most people, if they believe in the vax and don't want the virus, they can get themselves and their families vaxed, and then they don't really have to care so much about what others do.  Those who can't get the vax will benefit from the likelihood that a high % of families will voluntarily get the vax.  Therefore, I believe there isn't enough reason to curtail freedom of choice for the general public.

I have several family members who cannot get vaccinated for medical reasons. I care very much that the staff in the residential facilities where my loved ones are staying are required to be vaccinated.

[catz]

I think you'll start seeing employers require it when it is widely available if numbers aren't coming down quickly enough an we're still seeing outbreaks affecting how businesses operate.  And I'm sure they will have a medical exception rule like places have now.   I'm personally fine with it.  I am happy with the data/science so far and intend on watching closely the next 6 months to see if anything comes up which is kind of how long I expect to wait before it is my turn.  The vast majority of vax issues will come up in the first 60 days after vaccination.  The option to me isn't "vax" or "not". It is "vax" or "get covid".  Based on current data, vax is looking a heck of a lot better to me.  I have a teen and a young adult and we just need to get back to real life for them.  I've developed some sense of zen about being home but I am more stressed in this situation with all 4 of us together constantly.  I'm excited to let the youth here spread their wings again.  

I haven't seen an reputable scientific data there have been regular issues with Gardasil vaccination.  That is one I paused for my oldest, he was right at the front end for boys.  He was very physically immature and sheltered when he was first offered, there was very little risk in waiting.  I did get it for him after a few more years of good data and we had no issues with it here.   Most kids we know have had that vaccine, I don't know anyone who had any sort of issue with it.  Thalidomide was not studied in pregnant women when released.  Drugs and vaccines actually have much tighter safety requirements now.  The problems with Thalidomide actually led to much more rigorous testing programs.

https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/thalidomide-tragedy-lessons-drug-safety-and-regulation

Edited December 2, 2020 by FuzzyCatz

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

In a related but not exactly the same as the Covid class thread, what do you think of the possibility of some employers requiring the covid vaccine? (There is still debate on whether it can be required legally, but let's assume there is a possibility it could be required as long as there was not a medical reason that it couldn't be given.)

After health care workers & nursing home residents are voluntarily allowed to receive the vaccine, should certain types of employees be required to get it? 

What about colleges (since most of the vaccines haven't been tested on children yet) requiring it? Airlines? Service providers requiring it for clients before they will allow them in for appointments? Doctor's offices making them mandatory for further treatment? Hospitals requiring them before elective surgery? 

What will you think of someone who decides not to get the vaccine when it is offered to them?

This all assumes the vaccine would be free to those it is required of or to whom it is offered which may not be the case.

It can be required legally. It's probable hospitals and health care facilities will require their employees to get it as soon as it is available on a scale large enough to support it. It's possible in the early stages of the roll out it might only go to ED employees and those who treat COVID-19 patients and high risk groups. Currently, these employers require their employees to be up to date on all vaccines and to get the flu vaccine each year. It is a condition of employment. As long as the job requirements are written correctly, the legality of this is not up in the air.

College kids are also required to be up to date on their regular vaccines. I have no idea if they have the flu shot as mandatory. I imagine if the flu shot is mandatory, they will likely add this one to that regimen as well. If there is significant evidence of dorm spread, like there is with bacterial meningitis, it may become required of all students living in dorms, just as the bacterial meningitis vaccine is required now.

As far as private companies offering services to the public go - there are anti-discrimination laws in effect that may prohibit them from requiring customers/clients to get vaccines before being allowed to gain access. Besides, this would be really difficult to enforce.

Many pediatricians currently don't see patients who are not adhering to a traditional vaccine schedule. This is because it puts too many vulnerable children at risk - they have patients who can't receive vaccinations and are relying on everyone else to get theirs so that they don't bring a contagious illness into the office. I do not know if adult medical providers are instituting the same policy, but if pediatricians can do it, I don't see why an adult general provider or specialist requiring it would be a legal issue.

As far as what I think about people who wouldn't get the vaccine without a legitimate medical reason to refuse it, assuming they are widely available at some point, well, I guess I'd probably put them in the same category as anti-maskers. By that, I would avoid contact if possible, even if I had been vaccinated.

 

[SeaConquest]

40 minutes ago, Ellie said:

If the flu shot is required, then they might as well require c*vid. If they want only c*vid, that's not ok.

I will be one of those people who will refuse it. I am not ready to be vaccinated with a drug which has had such a short test lifespan. We don't even know the possible side effects. Two words: Guardicil and Thalidomide.

There is no evidence of any safety issue with the HPV vaccine: 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2759485

With more than 28 million doses administered since 2014, the CDC hasn’t identified any new or unexpected safety concerns with the human papillomavirus vaccine, according to a pair of CDC studies published in Pediatrics.

The first study mined data from 7244 reports of adverse events after administration of the 9-valent human papillomavirus vaccine (9vHPV) submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) between December 2014 and December 2017. About 97% of the reports weren’t serious. The most commonly reported adverse events were dizziness, syncope, headache, and injection site reactions. The authors reported 2 verified deaths after use of the vaccine but found no evidence that the vaccine caused the deaths. The overall rate of adverse event reports was 259 per million doses of 9vHPV and 7 serious adverse event reports per million doses.

https://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_hpv.asp

Since 2006, more than 120 million doses of HPV vaccine have been distributed in the United States. Among all reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) following HPV vaccines, the most frequently reported symptoms overall were dizziness; fainting; headache; nausea; fever; and pain, redness, and swelling in the arm where the shot was given. Of the reports to VAERS, 6% were classified as "serious." About 22% of the VAERS reports were not related to health problems, but were reported for reasons such as improper vaccine storage or the vaccine being given to someone for whom it was not recommended. Although deaths have been reported among vaccine recipients none has been conclusively shown to have been caused by the vaccine. Occurrences of rare conditions, such as Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) have also been reported among vaccine recipients but there is no evidence that HPV vaccine increased the rate of GBS above what is expected in the population.

CDC, working with the FDA and other immunization partners, will continue to monitor the safety of HPV vaccines. You can find complete information on this and other vaccine safety issues at www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/hpv-safety-faqs.html.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by SeaConquest

[SKL]

Do people really think it is normal for employers in general to require vaxes?  Other than a couple of narrow types of jobs like nursing, I have never heard of such a thing.  Nor have I seen it required for travel, although it's been recommended.

Also, I don't think this is going to be around forever like measles.  I think it will be more like H1N1 which, yes, it's still around, but it's not something we fuss over and mandate vaxes for.

[EKS]

1 hour ago, Ellie said:

c*vid

Off topic, but why the asterisk?

[SKL]

22 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

There is no evidence of any safety issue with the HPV vaccine: 

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2759485

With more than 28 million doses administered since 2014, the CDC hasn’t identified any new or unexpected safety concerns with the human papillomavirus vaccine, according to a pair of CDC studies published in Pediatrics.

 

The first study mined data from 7244 reports of adverse events after administration of the 9-valent human papillomavirus vaccine (9vHPV) submitted to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) between December 2014 and December 2017. About 97% of the reports weren’t serious. The most commonly reported adverse events were dizziness, syncope, headache, and injection site reactions. The authors reported 2 verified deaths after use of the vaccine but found no evidence that the vaccine caused the deaths. The overall rate of adverse event reports was 259 per million doses of 9vHPV and 7 serious adverse event reports per million doses.

https://www.immunize.org/askexperts/experts_hpv.asp

Since 2006, more than 120 million doses of HPV vaccine have been distributed in the United States. Among all reports to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) following HPV vaccines, the most frequently reported symptoms overall were dizziness; fainting; headache; nausea; fever; and pain, redness, and swelling in the arm where the shot was given. Of the reports to VAERS, 6% were classified as "serious." About 22% of the VAERS reports were not related to health problems, but were reported for reasons such as improper vaccine storage or the vaccine being given to someone for whom it was not recommended. Although deaths have been reported among vaccine recipients none has been conclusively shown to have been caused by the vaccine. Occurrences of rare conditions, such as Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) have also been reported among vaccine recipients but there is no evidence that HPV vaccine increased the rate of GBS above what is expected in the population.

CDC, working with the FDA and other immunization partners, will continue to monitor the safety of HPV vaccines. You can find complete information on this and other vaccine safety issues at www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/vaccines/hpv/hpv-safety-faqs.html.

 

259 per million x 120 million = 31,000 adverse reports.

7 per million x 120 million = 840 serious adverse event reports.

These don't include the cases that are not reported to the CDC.

[SeaConquest]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

259 per million x 120 million = 31,000 adverse reports.

7 per million x 120 million = 840 serious adverse event reports.

These don't include the cases that are not reported to the CDC.

Yes, you have people report things to VAERS all the time. Correlation does not equal causation. That's why they do long-term safety studies. For example, my oldest broke out into hives a few hours after getting his first flu shot. According to what I read at the time, this was a serious enough reaction that I was supposed to report to VAERS through his ped, so I did. The ped recommended not getting any more flu shots, so we didn't for years. At that time, Sacha was having a lot of reactions to different foods. He was a breastfed baby and we were trying a lot of new foods and flavors. I was a really allergic kid, so I just assumed that I had a really allergic kid.

Turns out, none of that was true. He was just a young baby having some mild food reactions and may/may not have had a reaction to the vax that day. For all we know, the hives could have been from what he had for lunch. But, that didn't stop my very crunchy ped and me from holding off on having him get a flu shot for years because we assumed a vaccine reaction. Years later, I was seeing a Kaiser allergist for my younger son (who has asthma) and the allergist noticed that none of us had flu shots. I told him that I used to get sick from them in the Army, that Sacha had a reaction, yadda yadda. So, he encouraged me to do a challenge trial of the family with him in his office. I did. Nothing happened. We were all fine. Sacha outgrew whatever food reactions he had as a baby and we have all had flu shots annually without any issues ever since. 

So please, take all those VAERS reports of adverse reactions with a grain of salt. Many of the serious health issues would have happened anyway. That's why people far smarter than me analyze the data and are able to compare it with expected findings, etc. over the long-term in making conclusions and recommendations about its safety profile. And yes, Sacha got the HPV vaccine. No issues. 

[catz]

I think vaccine mandates will be new for some places, but I don't think it's weird.  I mean plenty of jobs require drug tests or physicals.  My husband's office has always had onsite flu shot availability in the fall and though it hasn't been mandated, but I won't be surprised if it is.  Really if it is a liability issue for a business to have covid circulating in their work spaces, I won't be surprised to see this pop up.   I also think in terms of international travel it is a no brainer if some countries are having outbreaks and another country is well controlled.   

In terms of this sticking around, we'll just have to wait and see.  This is a much bigger deal than H1N1.  

[RootAnn]

51 minutes ago, TechWife said:

College kids are also required to be up to date on their regular vaccines

I have two kids attending college in person. Only the MMR was required of one. I had forgotten that one Meningococcal ACWY shot within the last five years was required of the one living on the dorms. The other college recommends it for students living in on-campus housing but doesn't require it. Neither college required other shots to be up to date (other than 2 MMRs).

53 minutes ago, TechWife said:

Many pediatricians currently don't see patients who are not adhering to a traditional vaccine schedule.

Yep, that's why I asked that question.

[TechWife]

27 minutes ago, SKL said:

Do people really think it is normal for employers in general to require vaxes?  Other than a couple of narrow types of jobs like nursing, I have never heard of such a thing.  Nor have I seen it required for travel, although it's been recommended.

Also, I don't think this is going to be around forever like measles.  I think it will be more like H1N1 which, yes, it's still around, but it's not something we fuss over and mandate vaxes for.

There are vaccination requirements and recommendations for international travel & have been for a long time. Required vaccinations are determined by each country. Obtaining an entry visa is dependent upon proof of vaccination for some countries. 
 

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/page/travel-vaccines

The US has vaccination requirements for people applying for residency status. 
https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html

[Corraleno]

Here is the list of vaccines currently required by son's university. I fully expect (and certainly hope!) they will add covid to the list once it's widely available.

REQUIRED VACCINATIONS

The following vaccines are given in accordance with guidelines set forth by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Hepatitis B

• Three (3) doses OR lab report confirming immunity

Measles, Mumps, Rubella

• Two (2) doses of MMR OR two (2) doses of Measles, two (2) doses of Mumps and one (1) dose of Rubella OR lab report confirming immunity

Meningococcal Conjugate (ACWY)

• Required for those students who will be younger than twenty-two (22) at the start of their first semester
• One dose received since age 16

Polio

• Required for those students who will be younger than eighteen at the start of their first semester
• Four doses of IPV or OPV

Tetanus-Diphtheria-Pertussis

• One dose of TDap received within the past ten (10) years OR
• One dose of TDap received since age 10 and one (1) dose or either TDap or TD within the last ten years

Varicella

• Two doses OR lab report confirming immunity
• Documentation of history of disease does not satisfy the requirement

All requirements are to be completed prior to the start of the student's first semester.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Corraleno

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

There is no evidence of any safety issue with the HPV vaccine:

The hundreds of people who showed up just at my state capital to testify against making it mandatory would strongly disagree.

[TechWife]

58 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I have two kids attending college in person. Only the MMR was required of one. I had forgotten that one Meningococcal ACWY shot within the last five years was required of the one living on the dorms. The other college recommends it for students living in on-campus housing but doesn't require it. Neither college required other shots to be up to date (other than 2 MMRs).

Yep, that's why I asked that question.

That seems irresponsible for a group living situation. Is it that all your particular student needed was the MMR because all others were up to date? 

[SeaConquest]

14 minutes ago, Ellie said:

The hundreds of people who showed up just at my state capital to testify against making it mandatory would strongly disagree.

Why would I care about anti-vax hysterics who are persuaded by social media misinformation? How is that even remotely relevant to policymakers making evidence-based public health decisions? 

[Hyacinth]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I think vaccine mandates will be new for some places, but I don't think it's weird.  I mean plenty of jobs require drug tests or physicals.  My husband's office has always had onsite flu shot availability in the fall and though it hasn't been mandated, but I won't be surprised if it is.  Really if it is a liability issue for a business to have covid circulating in their work spaces, I won't be surprised to see this pop up.   I also think in terms of international travel it is a no brainer if some countries are having outbreaks and another country is well controlled.   

In terms of this sticking around, we'll just have to wait and see.  This is a much bigger deal than H1N1.  

I wouldn’t put drug testing and physicals in the same category as vaccinations. There’s zero risk in urinating in a cup. Can we say with absolute certainty the same for the COVID vaccination? 

[Shoeless]

Vaccine compliance and mandates will vary by state. You'll see some states have very good uptake of the vaccine, (like Massachusetts), and other states that will puff out their chest and refuse because "Freedom!" (like Texas). 

I have no idea if states will or will not be able to mandate vaccines for every citizen, but I can see them making things really, really difficult if people refuse. Don't want to vax your kids? That's fine. That means you get remote learning.   

From what I remember reading, the Pfizer vaccine was tested in people ages 16-85, so older teens will be able to get it when it's available. Pfizer is currently running a trial on kids age 12 and up. 

[Hyacinth]

6 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Vaccine compliance and mandates will vary by state. You'll see some states have very good uptake of the vaccine, (like Massachusetts), and other states that will puff out their chest and refuse because "Freedom!" (like Texas). 

Yeah, the idea of medical freedom is so stupid. 🙄

[Shoeless]

Just now, Hyacinth said:

Yeah, the idea of medical freedom is so stupid. 🙄

Glad we agree.

[Shoeless]

That's as much bait as I'm willing to take in this conversation. Enjoy your week, ladies.

[catz]

I totally get that physicals and drug tests aren't the same as getting a vaccine.  But it is the similar from a liability if something went wrong stand point.  Imagine the anti vaxxer spreads covid in a closed meeting with customers.  All I am saying is I won't be surprised if some employers require it.  My kid's college requires certain vaccines.  It really doesn't seem that off the wall to me.  I think we are unlikely to see any state or federal mandates though.  

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, TechWife said:

That seems irresponsible for a group living situation. Is it that all your particular student needed was the MMR because all others were up to date? 

One college requires proof of two MMRs plus the Meningitis one I listed above if you are living in the dorms. That's it unless you are an international student.

The other requires you to send a copy of your baby shot book records with the date of your last polio & DPT (not specifying that you had to have a certain number or that they are required) but it does states that you need 2 MMRs. 

I made my oldest get another MMR because I wasn't sure the college would allow her to attend since she never got a second Rubella shot; she had the individual Measles/Mumps shots. Anyway, colleges vary on their requirements!

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, FuzzyCatz said:

All I am saying is I won't be surprised if some employers require it. 

I won't be surprised either. 

[Bootsie]

6 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Vaccine compliance and mandates will vary by state. You'll see some states have very good uptake of the vaccine, (like Massachusetts), and other states that will puff out their chest and refuse because "Freedom!" (like Texas). 

I have no idea if states will or will not be able to mandate vaccines for every citizen, but I can see them making things really, really difficult if people refuse. Don't want to vax your kids? That's fine. That means you get remote learning.   

From what I remember reading, the Pfizer vaccine was tested in people ages 16-85, so older teens will be able to get it when it's available. Pfizer is currently running a trial on kids age 12 and up. 

According to this States With the Highest and Lowest Vaccination Rates – Page 8 – 24/7 Wall St. Texas ranks 33 in vaccination rates.  Yes, Massachusetts rates 1st.  But, with a 69.5% vaccination rate (especially given the high rate of uninsured in Texas), Texas ranks higher than California (65%) and Oregon (58%) 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

My employer will offer it, as they do the flu shot, but not require it.  I suspect the hospitals at least locally will follow their flu shot guidelines; you can get it or you can mask.

I actually see the biggest problem being public buy in.  It’s hard enough to get people to come back for their second dose of a shot; and I think there are a lot of people who are hesitant enough that a series of two shots is enough to make them not get it. 

[Dmmetler]

I am really hoping DD will be able to get it before going to college next fall. I think group living situations like dorms need to be an area where vaccination is prioritized-and if it is prioritized for the students who can be fully vaccinated, it will protect those who cannot be. 

 

And I will be getting it as soon as my specialists recommend it, which, I suspect, will be as soon as it is readily available for people in my age group/risk factors. Mandatory or not. 

[Wheres Toto]

5 hours ago, Bootsie said:

According to this States With the Highest and Lowest Vaccination Rates – Page 8 – 24/7 Wall St. Texas ranks 33 in vaccination rates.  Yes, Massachusetts rates 1st.  But, with a 69.5% vaccination rate (especially given the high rate of uninsured in Texas), Texas ranks higher than California (65%) and Oregon (58%) 

I'm surprised NJ isn't higher on this list.  We don't have that many exceptions for vaccination for school kids.  Although I couldn't tell if the vaccination rate was mainly for kids under 5 (since that's the population they mention) or all kids.  I do know a lot of people who "catch up" with vaccines in order to go to school.    Universities (at least state universities) here require meningitis to live on campus.  I'm not sure about any others, dd was fully vaccinated so it wasn't something I paid a lot of attention to. 

Dh and I were just talking about Covid vaccine the other day.   I think I'll be comfortable making a decision about it by summer 2021.   By that point, I think a lot of people - healthcare workers, military, high risk - will have been vaccinated and we'll hear about any major issues.   Odds are good we wouldn't be able to get it before that point anyway since neither of us work for the type of industry likely to require it (I run my own business) or travel for business very often.  

What I do hope is that the mask mandates continue until a decent percentage of the population can be vaccinated or is vaccinated.  I'm sure I will run into issues if I try to require masks longer than the mandates go on.   Requiring proof of vax will definitely be a no-go (my "clientele" is mainly children so that has multiple issues) so the way this all shakes out could end up being very awkward for me.  

[Dmmetler]

10 minutes ago, DorothyNJ said:

I'm surprised NJ isn't higher on this list.  We don't have that many exceptions for vaccination for school kids.  Although I couldn't tell if the vaccination rate was mainly for kids under 5 (since that's the population they mention) or all kids.  I do know a lot of people who "catch up" with vaccines in order to go to school.    Universities (at least state universities) here require meningitis to live on campus.  I'm not sure about any others, dd was fully vaccinated so it wasn't something I paid a lot of attention to. 

Dh and I were just talking about Covid vaccine the other day.   I think I'll be comfortable making a decision about it by summer 2021.   By that point, I think a lot of people - healthcare workers, military, high risk - will have been vaccinated and we'll hear about any major issues.   Odds are good we wouldn't be able to get it before that point anyway since neither of us work for the type of industry likely to require it (I run my own business) or travel for business very often.  

What I do hope is that the mask mandates continue until a decent percentage of the population can be vaccinated or is vaccinated.  I'm sure I will run into issues if I try to require masks longer than the mandates go on.   Requiring proof of vax will definitely be a no-go (my "clientele" is mainly children so that has multiple issues) so the way this all shakes out could end up being very awkward for me.  

I'm concerned about that as well. Since the vaccines have not even started testing on kids, I cannot imagine that my students will be able to get it any time soon. I am hoping that the mask mandate stays around until most adults, at least, can be vaccinated.