The Vaccine Thread

[Danae]

10 minutes ago, SKL said:

Our state's covid vax dashboard (as of yesterday) shows total number of vaccinations, all ages, as 126 more than total number of vaccinations, ages 12+.  What could that mean, other than some providers are vaxing kids under 12?  (Unless there are people for whom they don't have the age.?)

Data entry error.  
 

Edit:  or the different parts of the dashboard getting data from different sources and one updates faster than another.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Danae

[KSera]

9 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

How many hours reserve so they typically run with?  Is it a just in time thing or is there normally a supply?

This is what I wondered when I read that as well, and still haven’t found an answer. I did read they are having trouble with getting their deliveries due to drivers being out sick, so a hospital might get down to 12 hours of oxygen left and be waiting for their driver who is 12 hours overdue. 

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot - Bloomberg

I read a discussion of this last night that emphasized the survivor bias in this data. It’s great news that people who have been infected and recovered have decent protection against Delta, at least for a good while, but a whole lot of people didn’t make it out the other side of that experience, and many more endured being very sick and hospitalized in order to get that immunity. So, while it’s good news for those who have survived, it’s not at all a reason that people should pursue getting infected rather than getting vaccinated. The immunity difference is clearly not at all worth that risk. And still, being vaccinated after being infected more than doubles the protection from repeat infection.  

[Matryoshka]

18 minutes ago, KSera said:

I read a discussion of this last night that emphasized the survivor bias in this data. It’s great news that people who have been infected and recovered have decent protection against Delta, at least for a good while, but a whole lot of people didn’t make it out the other side of that experience, and many more endured being very sick and hospitalized in order to get that immunity. So, while it’s good news for those who have survived, it’s not at all a reason that people should pursue getting infected rather than getting vaccinated. The immunity difference is clearly not at all worth that risk. And still, being vaccinated after being infected more than doubles the protection from repeat infection.  

This is like the argument that we don't need car seats because we all survived childhood without them.  But the people saying this also almost universally weren't in serious crashes - most of kids who got into crashes without carseats didn't survive to tell us about their experience.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, kokotg said:

I talked about this in another thread where someone linked to it, but the abstract says that the best protection was natural infection followed by at least one dose of the vaccine. Which is the same thing that study in KY showed. I'm very curious if the reverse is true: does a breakthrough case boost immunity and provide more protection against future infection? (I would imagine it does; I don't see why it wouldn't)...since obviously a vaccine followed by a probably mild breakthrough case is a lot better than taking one's chances with natural infection before a vaccine. 

This is what i'm hoping - that my most exposed person, 22 yr old DS is now pretty super immune after vaccination plus breakthrough infection. 

[mommyoffive]

COVID-19 poses higher risk for symptoms than vaccines (msn.com)

 

Covid — not vaccination — presents biggest blood clot risk, large study finds (msn.com)

 

Anti-vaxxers online pivot to 'moo juice,' an animal deworming medicine, to treat Covid (msn.com)

 

Arkansas doctor under investigation for prescribing ivermectin thousands of times for Covid-19 despite FDA warning (msn.com)

 

To encourage vaccinations, more US firms turn to incentives -- and threats (msn.com)

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This is what I wondered when I read that as well, and still haven’t found an answer. I did read they are having trouble with getting their deliveries due to drivers being out sick, so a hospital might get down to 12 hours of oxygen left and be waiting for their driver who is 12 hours overdue. 

I read a discussion of this last night that emphasized the survivor bias in this data. It’s great news that people who have been infected and recovered have decent protection against Delta, at least for a good while, but a whole lot of people didn’t make it out the other side of that experience, and many more endured being very sick and hospitalized in order to get that immunity. So, while it’s good news for those who have survived, it’s not at all a reason that people should pursue getting infected rather than getting vaccinated. The immunity difference is clearly not at all worth that risk. And still, being vaccinated after being infected more than doubles the protection from repeat infection.  

I also wonder whether someone is likelier to have a documented infection if one had a bad case. Probably lots of people don't wind up with it recorded... 

[Syllieann]

There is undoubtedly survivor bias in the data, but I kind of think there is a plausible mechanism as well.  In an infection we make antibodies to a whole bunch of different places on the pathogen.  They are more or less effective depending on where they bind, but in vax we only make a very specific type of antibody.  It does seem logical that having a mishmash of antibodies would better protect against variants, even if there are fewer antibodies overall, because the virus would have to have a functional change in multiple places to evade all of them.

[mommyoffive]

COVID vaccine: Experts debate best timing for booster shots for America (msn.com)

Biden says health officials exploring whether to recommend boosters after less than 8 months (msn.com)

[TCB]

5 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Pfizer says a 3rd shot of the original vaccine significantly boosted antibodies above the level of the original shot, and it was even more effective for the elderly — I think it was something like 10x increase in over 65s and 5x in younger people. Moderna's booster though just brought the antibody levels back up to where they were after the original two doses.

 

I thought I heard that the original shot as a booster gave better protection than the Delta specific one as a booster, but I might have dreamt that lol.

[wathe]

Moderna has been approved for 12-17 year-olds in Canada.

[mommyoffive]

15 minutes ago, wathe said:

Moderna has been approved for 12-17 year-olds in Canada.

That is great.  I wish I would have been able to get my 12-17 years Moderna instead of Pfizer.

[mommyoffive]

peds.2021-052286.full.pdf (aappublications.org)

This is about antibodies in breastmilk incase that helps anyone.

[mommyoffive]

Biden and Fauci discuss COVID-19 booster shots every 5 months (nypost.com)

[TexasProud]

4 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Biden and Fauci discuss COVID-19 booster shots every 5 months (nypost.com)

Every 5 months? Forever? Not comfortable with those chemicals in my body that often. I never take medicine 

[Drama Llama]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Every 5 months? Forever? Not comfortable with those chemicals in my body that often. I never take medicine 

I don’t think there is any reason to believe that the time frame between doses 2 and 3 will then be repeated.  What other vaccines work that way besides dog rabies? 

[ktgrok]

15 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

I don’t think there is any reason to believe that the time frame between doses 2 and 3 will then be repeated.  What other vaccines work that way besides dog rabies? 

and even rabies we now have ever 3 year boosters

 

[BeachGal]

22 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Every 5 months? Forever? Not comfortable with those chemicals in my body that often. I never take medicine 

They discussed the pros and cons of shortening the interval of time between the second and third (the booster) doses.

[TexasProud]

Just now, BeachGal said:

They discussed the pros and cons of shortening the interval of time between the second and third (the booster) doses.

Ok. That is not what the headlines say.  That is fine. 

[regentrude]

34 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Biden and Fauci discuss COVID-19 booster shots every 5 months (nypost.com)

All other sources I have seen say AT five months after primary vaccination.  Huge difference! Prepositions matter.

"Every" makes no sense since we don't know yet how effective one booster is. But th NY post isn't exactly the pinnacle of journalism 

Edited August 27, 2021 by regentrude

[BeachGal]

Just now, TexasProud said:

Ok. That is not what the headlines say.  That is fine. 

The headlines are misleading and incorrect. Click bait unfortunately.

[BeachGal]

Biden and Fauci discussed Israel’s data after administering the third booster there. The US was planning to recommend waiting eight months and might change that to five or six months.

[kokotg]

27 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Biden and Fauci discussed Israel’s data after administering the third booster there. The US was planning to recommend waiting eight months and might change that to five or six months.

I wonder if the only reason they're hesitating about 5-6 months is that it would mean so many lower risk people all eligible right away, and they want to give the higher risk people who got their first round early on a chance to get in there first. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, kokotg said:

I wonder if the only reason they're hesitating about 5-6 months is that it would mean so many lower risk people all eligible right away, and they want to give the higher risk people who got their first round early on a chance to get in there first. 

The science pretty clear that it's 5-6 months. 

[Dmmetler]

6 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I wonder if the only reason they're hesitating about 5-6 months is that it would mean so many lower risk people all eligible right away, and they want to give the higher risk people who got their first round early on a chance to get in there first. 

I think they could say 5-6 months, do special clinics for health workers and elderly adults in group settings, do some pop ups for those who also qualified early, but aren't in those groups, and let the rest of us find our way to an Appointment at CVS or Walmart. There are so many more vsccination sites and options now than back in Dec/Jan/Feb. 

[BeachGal]

7 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I wonder if the only reason they're hesitating about 5-6 months is that it would mean so many lower risk people all eligible right away, and they want to give the higher risk people who got their first round early on a chance to get in there first. 

Possibly. We should definitely give priority to our HCWs.

Those who are immunocompromised should also be prioritized because they don’t have a robust enough response with just two doses.

[Dmmetler]

2 minutes ago, BeachGal said:

Possibly. We should definitely give priority to our HCWs.

Those who are immunocompromised should also be prioritized because they don’t have a robust enough response with just two doses.

immunocompromised are eligible now, and hopefully getting the third dose already. 

[mommyoffive]

FDA Vaccine Approval, Mandates Persuade New York City Holdouts (msn.com)

 

7 Myths About the COVID Vaccines Debunked (msn.com)

 

 

 

[mommyoffive]

Safe activities to do if you're fully vaccinated, according to Dr. Wen (msn.com)

 

When free doughnuts aren’t enough: Why monthly surcharges may be the way to convince unvaccinated Americans to get their COVID shot (msn.com)

[ktgrok]

24 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Safe activities to do if you're fully vaccinated, according to Dr. Wen (msn.com)

 

I love this analogy from that article: 

We need to think about the vaccine as a very good raincoat. If it's drizzling outside — if the level of infection isn't very high — the vaccines will protect very well. But if it's a constant thunderstorm, then there's a higher chance of getting wet. A vaccinated person is at higher risk when surrounded by a lot of people who could be infected with Covid-19, and that's what occurring throughout the US right now.

[mommyoffive]

Health officials sticking with 8-month COVID booster shot timeline: Fauci (msn.com)

[BeachGal]

4 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Health officials sticking with 8-month COVID booster shot timeline: Fauci (msn.com)

I think the longer interval yields better results but not sure. They might change to a shorter interval if necessary, though.

"Well, we're still sticking with the eight months," Fauci, the chief medical adviser for the White House, told ABC "This Week" co-anchor Martha Raddatz. "However, as we've said, even in the original statement that came out, we're gonna have to go through the standard way of the FDA looking at the data and then the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices. So although we're sticking with eight, we're remaining flexible, that if the data tells us differently, we'll make adjustments accordingly. But for now, we're sticking with the eight."

[kbutton]

[Syllieann]

5 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I'm curious about the 4% of unvaccinated doctors.  The medical contraindication rate can't be that high, I don't think?  I wonder if some of the doctors who were already infected decided not to get vaccinated.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Syllieann

[kbutton]

28 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I'm curious about the 4% of unvaccinated doctors.  The medical contraindication rate can't be that high, I don't think?  I wonder if some of the doctors who were already infected decided not to get vaccinated.

I don't know, but I think that a similar stat has been referenced on the boards before. 

[Spy Car]

36 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I just saw this meme and thought I should post it in this thread...but then I realized I saw it in this thread. LOL.

Clearly not enough coffee for this lunkhead.

Bill

[kbutton]

4 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I just saw this meme and thought I should post it in this thread...but then I realized I saw it in this thread. LOL.

Clearly not enough coffee for this lunkhead.

Bill

This made my day. I am sure I've done the same. Enjoy your coffee!

[TexasProud]

38 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

I'm curious about the 4% of unvaccinated doctors.  The medical contraindication rate can't be that high, I don't think?  I wonder if some of the doctors who were already infected decided not to get vaccinated.

I know several. One, not in Texas, whose wife is deep into Q theories. The others (3) 2 have already had it. Don’t know exactly why other one hasn’t . 

[RootAnn]

On 8/27/2021 at 6:40 PM, Not_a_Number said:

The science pretty clear that it's 5-6 months. 

Can someone link to the studies that show the 3rd shot is leading to less infection or less hospitalization or less transmission than "full immunization" (after 5, 6, 8, whatever months). The last I saw from Israel (a few weeks ago) was that a 3rd shot wasn't reducing infection.

ETA: I'm surrounded by lots of anti-mask, not pro-vax people. I know several few doctors & nurses who are not vaccinated.

Edited August 29, 2021 by RootAnn

[KSera]

1 hour ago, RootAnn said:

Can someone link to the studies that show the 3rd shot is leading to less infection or less hospitalization or less transmission than "full immunization" (after 5, 6, 8, whatever months). The last I saw from Israel (a few weeks ago) was that a 3rd shot wasn't reducing infection.

 

I can’t find the actual study data, just many articles reporting four times greater protection overall and six times greater protection against serious illness for those 60 and over. I’m guessing that must be based on antibody levels from the way it’s worded, and because it seems too early to know actual case count differences, but that’s just my guess. https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/23/22637687/third-covid-vaccine-lower-risk-israel

[catz]

Here was a recent article about hospitalization in decline due to boosters in Israel

https://www.timesofisrael.com/experts-say-current-covid-outbreak-being-curbed-thanks-to-booster-vaccines/

[RootAnn]

Thanks @FuzzyCatz & @KSera. Looks like so far the linited data is pointing to less serious infections after 3rd doses but too early to know if there is less transmission or less infection.

ETA: Missed this one https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/third-pfizer-dose-86-effective-over-60s-israeli-hmo-says-2021-08-18/  that has prelim results that the booster lowers infection risk by 86% in over 60s (data study group)

Edited August 29, 2021 by RootAnn
Missed a study

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Syllieann said:

I'm curious about the 4% of unvaccinated doctors.  The medical contraindication rate can't be that high, I don't think?  I wonder if some of the doctors who were already infected decided not to get vaccinated.

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/ama-survey-shows-over-96-doctors-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-19#:~:text=Jun%2011%2C%202021,in%20vaccination%20rates%20across%20regions.

It's from a survey the AMA sent out.

Someone else on SM tipped me off to its origin, and then I googled. HTH.

[mommyoffive]

States press forward on vax passports without Biden’s guidance (msn.com)

[TCB]

On 8/29/2021 at 11:18 AM, RootAnn said:

Can someone link to the studies that show the 3rd shot is leading to less infection or less hospitalization or less transmission than "full immunization" (after 5, 6, 8, whatever months). The last I saw from Israel (a few weeks ago) was that a 3rd shot wasn't reducing infection.

ETA: I'm surrounded by lots of anti-mask, not pro-vax people. I know several few doctors & nurses who are not vaccinated.

When I listened to TWIV they said there really wasn’t data to support it yet. I think I heard something about a study from Israel, but maybe it was just a report saying cases seemed to be dropping in Israel, maybe due to the booster, but I don’t have a link I’m afraid.

[Kanin]

On 8/27/2021 at 7:10 PM, BeachGal said:

Biden and Fauci discussed Israel’s data after administering the third booster there. The US was planning to recommend waiting eight months and might change that to five or six months.

I hope so! I'm a basket case at school. 

[mommyoffive]

Unvaccinated employees at Duke will face termination (msn.com)

 

Some element of vaccine hesitancy is rooted in faith — but party still seems to be more important (msn.com)

 

Pfizer director Dr. Scott Gottlieb says Covid vaccine for kids 5 to 11 could come by winter (msn.com)

 

Pastor Says He Was Fired From Religious Broadcasting Group for Promoting COVID Vaccines (msn.com)

[mommyoffive]

Israel offers COVID-19 booster to all vaccinated people | Reuters

[mommyoffive]

How the antidepressant fluvoxamine emerged as a promising Covid-19 treatment - Vox

[mommyoffive]

A judge asked a mother if she got the coronavirus vaccine. She said no, and he revoked custody of her son. (msn.com)

 

I wrote about why I got a COVID vaccination. Then I was fired from my job. (msn.com)

[Lanny]

The logistics for the manufacture and distribution of the COVID-19 vaccines are quite complicated. My Stepson had the first dose of the Moderna vaccine a few weeks ago. I was contemplating going with him, when he goes back for the 2nd dose. We live in Colombia.  Something happened.  Colombia ordered 5 million doses to arrive in Bogota during the 3rd quarter of 2021. There's September to go, but so far, only 180,000 doses have arrived in Bogota.

Colombia has asked the U.S. Government if they can loan us 5 million doses of Moderna and then Colombia can have what we paid for sent to the USA to repay them.

This has made a huge dent in the vaccination plan for COVID-19 here.

I think I missed my chance for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, but I would like to get that one or the Moderna, if I have the opportunity.  The vaccine is Free here, it's just a matter of them having the one I want available in a place that isn't too far from where we live.