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JennyD

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Can someone who is fluent in legal medicalese tell me what this bolded means -- "certain differences"? I am seeing stories saying the vaccine as approved is different than the EUA product (which this says - but it also says they are formulated the same).

"Pfizer-BioNTech COVID‑19 Vaccine contains a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 formulated in lipid
particles. COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is the same formulation as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and can be used interchangeably with the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.
 
The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used 
interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness."

So, my understanding is that there are "limited supply" of Comirnaty but plenty of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The argument I read was that "since the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is still under a EUA and only Comirnaty is FDA approved, people should make sure they are receiving the FDA approved product if they are mandated to get vaccinated." This all goes back to forcing someone to participate in an experiment/ be an experimental subject plus the ability to sue & win $$ for vaccine-related injuries.

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download

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7 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Can someone who is fluent in legal medicalese tell me what this bolded means -- "certain differences"? I am seeing stories saying the vaccine as approved is different than the EUA product (which this says - but it also says they are formulated the same).

"Pfizer-BioNTech COVID‑19 Vaccine contains a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 formulated in lipid
particles. COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is the same formulation as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and can be used interchangeably with the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.
 
The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used 
interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness."

So, my understanding is that there are "limited supply" of Comirnaty but plenty of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The argument I read was that "since the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is still under a EUA and only Comirnaty is FDA approved, people should make sure they are receiving the FDA approved product if they are mandated to get vaccinated." This all goes back to forcing someone to participate in an experiment/ be an experimental subject plus the ability to sue & win $$ for vaccine-related injuries.

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download

I saw that and wondered the same thing. Weirdly worded. 

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I am so utterly discouraged. People are waiting for days in stand alone ER's to get into the hospitals and yet this is what I am seeing everywhere on FB by the general public, not my close friends but acquaintances:

he fact is that those who are vaccinated are the one spreading the variants. COVID was on almost gone until the experimental gene therapy was unleashed on the world.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I am so utterly discouraged. People are waiting for days in stand alone ER's to get into the hospitals and yet this is what I am seeing everywhere on FB by the general public, not my close friends but acquaintances:

he fact is that those who are vaccinated are the one spreading the variants. COVID was on almost gone until the experimental gene therapy was unleashed on the world.
 

 

 

Yep. After all this time of the anti maskers/anti vaxxers not giving a hoot about who they spread the virus to, now they are trying to blame the vaccinated for spreading it and expecting the vaccinated to feel guilty for infecting them. I know people who had Covid and literally did not stay home and continued playing sports, etc. and did not tell anyone they had it until months had passed. Just said it was allergies/a cold. So truly no concern whatsoever about other people and now I am supposed to feel guilty because I got vaccinated?!?!? 
 

I have been driven this entire pandemic by not wanting to harm others or contribute to any kind of spread even more than I have been concerned about my own potential outcome with it. But good golly right now I am not worried about my vaccinated self spreading to the willfully unvaccinated. Even if that were to be true I am so burned out by the anti (vax/mask/distancing etc) that I just cannot feel responsible for them. It takes a lot for me to get there as I am pretty community minded and concerned for others and have been all along. But I’ve gotten so bitter than I find myself with a big ole shrug about the potential that I am now the true superspreader.

(of course I feel awful for the health care workers and those that can’t be vaccinated for whatever reasons so of course if I truly was spreading Covid all over the place as a vaccinated person with no symptoms I would truly feel sorry for the fallout of that. But the idea that I am supposed to feel responsible for the spread to all those willfully defiant of all mitigation and vaccination? I just can’t. I’m so burned out by fighting that attitude every day of this thing).

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7 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Yep. After all this time of the anti maskers/anti vaxxers not giving a hoot about who they spread the virus to, now they are trying to blame the vaccinated for spreading it and expecting the vaccinated to feel guilty for infecting them. I know people who had Covid and literally did not stay home and continued playing sports, etc. and did not tell anyone they had it until months had passed. Just said it was allergies/a cold. So truly no concern whatsoever about other people and now I am supposed to feel guilty because I got vaccinated?!?!? 
 

Yes, and what I quoted was from the page of an acquaintance whose husband nearly died from Covid. I guess she thinks one of us gave it to him. How do you even combat this...

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Just now, TexasProud said:

Yes, and what I quoted was from the page of an acquaintance whose husband nearly died from Covid. I guess she thinks one of us gave it to him. How do you even combat this...

Yeah that is the same kind of stuff I am dealing with here. I am so weary and I am not even a health care worker and none of us have been sick with it. Even without major personal fallout I am so weary of bumping up against this constantly.

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36 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

Can someone who is fluent in legal medicalese tell me what this bolded means -- "certain differences"? I am seeing stories saying the vaccine as approved is different than the EUA product (which this says - but it also says they are formulated the same).

"Pfizer-BioNTech COVID‑19 Vaccine contains a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 formulated in lipid
particles. COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is the same formulation as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and can be used interchangeably with the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.
 
The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used 
interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness."

So, my understanding is that there are "limited supply" of Comirnaty but plenty of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The argument I read was that "since the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is still under a EUA and only Comirnaty is FDA approved, people should make sure they are receiving the FDA approved product if they are mandated to get vaccinated." This all goes back to forcing someone to participate in an experiment/ be an experimental subject plus the ability to sue & win $$ for vaccine-related injuries.

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download

When I read that, I assumed that was kinda like the difference between grape flavored chewable Tylenol, and bubblegum flavored chewable Tylenol.  Differences in inactive ingredients, that might be important for someone with allergies to be aware of, but don't impact the rest of us.  Since I think the FDA approves each formulation of a medication, the two are approved separately. 

To be clear, I am not a medical professional.  That's just what I imagined when I read that.  

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9 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Yeah that is the same kind of stuff I am dealing with here. I am so weary and I am not even a health care worker and none of us have been sick with it. Even without major personal fallout I am so weary of bumping up against this constantly.

I am right there with you. I don't have the bandwidth anymore to care about the folks that don't give a damn and keep spreading lies. 

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I guess I don't understand why people allow obvious nonsense on facebook to bother them.  Most likely it's from some Russian bot, reposted by someone who wasn't going to vax/mask regardless.

That is what God created eyerolls for.

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1 minute ago, SKL said:

I guess I don't understand why people allow obvious nonsense on facebook to bother them.  Most likely it's from some Russian bot, reposted by someone who wasn't going to vax/mask regardless.

That is what God created eyerolls for.

Because these are people that I interact with in my community. The people I see at the grocery store. A lot of them used to work at the Christian school where I worked. To be honest, even if it were still open, I wouldn't/couldn't work there anymore. Some of them are periphery members at our church. ( As in attend on Sunday, but don't serve in any capacity. They just show up.) I will see them at Walmart. They have overwhelmed my community to the point that you have to wait in freestanding ER's for several days on oxygen if you have Covid before you can get a bed in the "real" hospital.  What they think matters for my community.

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9 minutes ago, SKL said:

I guess I don't understand why people allow obvious nonsense on facebook to bother them.  Most likely it's from some Russian bot, reposted by someone who wasn't going to vax/mask regardless.

That is what God created eyerolls for.

Because their rhetoric is the equivalent of waving a gun in a crowded space. They may kill someone I love. That gets me upset. YMMV.

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6 minutes ago, SKL said:

I guess I don't understand why people allow obvious nonsense on facebook to bother them.  Most likely it's from some Russian bot, reposted by someone who wasn't going to vax/mask regardless.

That is what God created eyerolls for.

I think for most of us these are actual people we know not random Facebook replies. People who up until the pandemic we were friends with but now there’s no going back to the way it was before. 

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25 minutes ago, SKL said:

I guess I don't understand why people allow obvious nonsense on facebook to bother them.  Most likely it's from some Russian bot, reposted by someone who wasn't going to vax/mask regardless.

That is what God created eyerolls for.

Because in my world, these people are advocating for dangerous changes in law, gathering a following/loyalty, and those doing the eye-rolling (vs. being angry) would rather people who believe the truth leave the community than challenge those in the community spreading these vile lies. Some of the current eye-rollers will be converts eventually or be moved to the very fringe of their community without changing their beliefs (I keep getting more fringe to these people, and I haven't changed my beliefs). Right now, the eye-rollers wish I'd shut up because I make it harder for people to un-see the crazy, and that makes me divisive and "extreme." I am just holding up a flashlight.

The peer pressure aspect of this is enormous--both in the pressure to believe and in the pressure to hold community together at all costs and not challenge this, even if people have to die because we won't act based on truth and even if we have laws going forward that imperil all public health and emergency/disaster efforts in the future, not just Covid.

This is in my former church, and it's shameful when people who supposedly believe in absolute truth now believe in Fox Noise, OAN, anti-vax propaganda, and Freedumb instead. I have watched people go from simply not fact-checking non-authoritative but "thought-provoking" memes to being way down the rabbit hole. 

Everything about lies is corrosive. 

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Well ... just remember that division is the goal of the entities that are creating that noise.  Why do they want division?  Because it weakens us more than just about anything else.

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15 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well ... just remember that division is the goal of the entities that are creating that noise.  Why do they want division?  Because it weakens us more than just about anything else.

It's the other side that needs to hear this, not the people who are outraged by lies. 

I used to feel as you do until I could see community slipping away (before Covid; Covid has just been gasoline on the fire), though I didn't know it was from bots, etc. at that point. I think I noticed the changes before reading articles about bots, etc. 

The people passing them on need to know where the lies come from, but that's not likely to happen. My being less angry about it is not going to stop the bots or the people spreading the lies. 

Sometimes, a bystander sees someone counter the wrong narrative and is heartened to keep believing truth or is thankful to be pointed to the truth.

Truth always matters. 

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18 minutes ago, SKL said:

Well ... just remember that division is the goal of the entities that are creating that noise.  Why do they want division?  Because it weakens us more than just about anything else.

True. But it's wearisome and hugely unfair --and methinks a type of gaslighting -- to always put the burden on one side. The people who spread this crap are the ones who need to change. Period.

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1 minute ago, Pawz4me said:

True. But it's wearisome and hugely unfair --and methinks a type of gaslighting -- to always put the burden on one side. The people who spread this crap are the ones who need to change. Period.

I'm not suggesting putting a burden on one side.  I'm suggesting not allowing this to be a burden in the form of useless or destructive anger.

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3 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

True. But it's wearisome and hugely unfair --and methinks a type of gaslighting -- to always put the burden on one side. The people who spread this crap are the ones who need to change. Period.

Yeah, I really don't see what I'm supposed to do when information is "divisive." Not say things that are true anymore? Smile and nod when people do stuff that's dangerous to ME? 

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2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, and what I quoted was from the page of an acquaintance whose husband nearly died from Covid. I guess she thinks one of us gave it to him. How do you even combat this...

You don't. You try to move if you can 😕 . 

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In my case, I find that actions speak louder than words.  People in my life (IRL) tend to view me as the sane one (LOL).  They are aware that I got myself and my kids vaccinated, after a fair amount of research.  That's really all they need to know.  Those who were consuming and spreading fake "info" stopped the vitriol and gave it some thought.  They may or may not get vaccinated for whatever reasons, but they won't talk others out of making an informed choice.

It is possible that my refraining from engaging with the crazy might have given me more credibility.  I don't know.

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3 minutes ago, SKL said:

In my case, I find that actions speak louder than words.  People in my life (IRL) tend to view me as the sane one (LOL).  They are aware that I got myself and my kids vaccinated, after a fair amount of research.  That's really all they need to know.  Those who were consuming and spreading fake "info" stopped the vitriol and gave it some thought.  They may or may not get vaccinated for whatever reasons, but they won't talk others out of making an informed choice.

It is possible that my refraining from engaging with the crazy might have given me more credibility.  I don't know.

Yes, but at some point they are going to kill me and my husband. Only a matter of time. Plus I am watching them die one by one. Horrible. Every day more of my friends’ children are getting it.  So hopeless. 

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7 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, I really don't see what I'm supposed to do when information is "divisive." Not say things that are true anymore? Smile and nod when people do stuff that's dangerous to ME? 

I mean, what do you do if your youngest child says something utterly ridiculous while throwing a tantrum?  Do you attempt to prove her wrong with facts, logic, and articles?  Or let it eat at you?  These bots are really just like a tantruming child - ignorant, illogical, and not deserving of serious discussion.

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8 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, but at some point they are going to kill me and my husband. Only a matter of time. Plus I am watching them die one by one. Horrible. Every day more of my friends’ children are getting it.  So hopeless. 

I hope they won't kill you and your husband.  Stay physically away from them if that is a real possibility.

I have friends who have both had the vax and Covid (pre-vax) whose kids are catching Delta.  It's not sparing families in any demographic.  I do believe that having the vax and/or being a child are very protective against serious illness.  I feel as safe as I feel driving on the freeway, knowing someone out there could be driving unsafely, but knowing that even so, my chances of survival are good.

As for my friends dying, I have lost a number of friends and relatives to smoking-related illnesses.  It's hard, and it's even harder knowing that some of my loved ones still smoke.  Maybe I should be angry, but I don't think that would help anything.

Edited by SKL
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11 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, but at some point they are going to kill me and my husband. Only a matter of time. Plus I am watching them die one by one. Horrible. Every day more of my friends’ children are getting it.  So hopeless. 

Chances are that no one will kill you. That's unnecessary catastrophizing. 

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3 minutes ago, SKL said:

I hope they won't kill you and your husband.  Stay physically away from them if that is a real possibility.

I have friends who have both had the vax and Covid (pre-vax) whose kids are catching Delta.  It's not sparing families in any demographic.  I do believe that having the vax and/or being a child are very protective against serious illness.  I feel as safe as I feel driving on the freeway, knowing someone out there could be driving unsafely, but knowing that even so, my chances of survival are good.

As for my friends dying, I have lost a number of friends and relatives to smoking-related illnesses.  It's hard, and it's even harder knowing that some of my loved ones still smoke.  Maybe I should be angry, but I don't think that would help anything.

We are currently camping in Colorado.  I am not angry. Just really sad. I do not know how not to care if people die. I just don’t.

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2 minutes ago, SKL said:

In my case, I find that actions speak louder than words.  People in my life (IRL) tend to view me as the sane one (LOL).  They are aware that I got myself and my kids vaccinated, after a fair amount of research.  That's really all they need to know.  Those who were consuming and spreading fake "info" stopped the vitriol and gave it some thought.  They may or may not get vaccinated for whatever reasons, but they won't talk others out of making an informed choice.

It is possible that my refraining from engaging with the crazy might have given me more credibility.  I don't know.

I have had people ask me real stuff about vaccinations even though I sometimes engage the crazy (I post more information than I confront crazy). They aren't people in my local community.

In my local community, I was someone that people thought was a bit outspoken, but they'd ask my opinion (often on the side after I'd been outspoken) and knew I did make informed choices.

Unfortunately, I found out that there were other people who were also seen as authoritative who absolutely believe lies, and they are more socially connected with each other and the community than I am (they've been a part of it for much longer). Some have some positive personal drama on their side (sad, true personal stories that have made them seem like super heroes). If you believe their lies, then you are automatically on the side of apple pie and motherhood, IYKWIM. It's not that those additional sad bits are not true, but they have nothing to do with whether a person is lying, lol! 

And lest this just come across as sour grapes and jealousy, they are sad caricatures of themselves. I can't be jealous of that. Lonely, but not jealous. 

Honestly, the entire baseline of what people think is okay has shifted. A local camp owned by people that have social ties to this community became a superspreader. They put off working with the local health department because they wanted their clients to have privacy and then they moaned and groaned that they were portrayed in the press as not caring about Covid. Many people here view cooperating with contact tracers to be akin to being a traitor. They were catering to their client base vs. following what I assume is the law. This is absolutely coming from the lying side. 

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4 hours ago, SKL said:

Interesting.  My sister who is battling shingles was advised not to get the vax at this time.

Is that a third dose that she’s advise not to get or is she advised just to not start the series until her shingles has resolved? I’m assuming you mean the shingles is currently active?

3 hours ago, RootAnn said:

Can someone who is fluent in legal medicalese tell me what this bolded means -- "certain differences"? I am seeing stories saying the vaccine as approved is different than the EUA product (which this says - but it also says they are formulated the same).

"Pfizer-BioNTech COVID‑19 Vaccine contains a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2 formulated in lipid
particles. COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) is the same formulation as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and can be used interchangeably with the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series.
 
The licensed vaccine has the same formulation as the EUA-authorized vaccine and the products can be used 
interchangeably to provide the vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. The products are legally distinct with certain differences that do not impact safety or effectiveness."

So, my understanding is that there are "limited supply" of Comirnaty but plenty of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The argument I read was that "since the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is still under a EUA and only Comirnaty is FDA approved, people should make sure they are receiving the FDA approved product if they are mandated to get vaccinated." This all goes back to forcing someone to participate in an experiment/ be an experimental subject plus the ability to sue & win $$ for vaccine-related injuries.

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download

It looks like this is one of the new anti-vax talking points that cropped up Tuesday, being spread by the likes of Robert F Kennedy and the “Children’s Health Defense Fund”.  There’s nothing in good faith about their “concerns”, just a way to try to stop people who were waiting until full approval before getting the vaccine from doing so, by scaring them.

2 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

(of course I feel awful for the health care workers and those that can’t be vaccinated for whatever reasons so of course if I truly was spreading Covid all over the place as a vaccinated person with no symptoms I would truly feel sorry for the fallout of that. But the idea that I am supposed to feel responsible for the spread to all those willfully defiant of all mitigation and vaccination? I just can’t. I’m so burned out by fighting that attitude every day of this thing).

Please don’t let that trouble you. You are  doing all the things. Asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic spread is not some new thing that just started with vaccination. It’s been that way all along, and unvaccinated people are many times over more likely to be carrying the virus and spreading the virus. Don’t let their nonsense get to you ((hugs)).

23 minutes ago, SKL said:

I mean, what do you do if your youngest child says something utterly ridiculous while throwing a tantrum?  Do you attempt to prove her wrong with facts, logic, and articles?  Or let it eat at you?  These bots are really just like a tantruming child - ignorant, illogical, and not deserving of serious discussion.

The bots would be easy to ignore if it weren’t real life people who are responding and being influenced by them. I don’t think people are talking about the bots, they’re talking about friends and family and people they know who are repeating this stuff. It matters because without people latching onto all this baloney, we wouldn’t have overflowing hospitals and schools closing again and water rationing, not enough morgue space, etc., etc. Unfortunately the real world effects are very, very real.

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1 minute ago, KSera said:

It looks like this is one of the new anti-vax talking points that cropped up Tuesday, being spread by the likes of Robert F Kennedy and the “Children’s Health Defense Fund”.  There’s nothing in good faith about their “concerns”, just a way to try to stop people who were waiting until full approval before getting the vaccine from doing so, by scaring them.

I wanted to see if there was anything to it which is why I went to the paper itself & included wording. I mean, there is obviously something different about them, but I believe what @BaseballandHockey said is right that only the inactive ingredients must be slightly different. 

I think it is important to check things & not just dismiss them.

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7 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I think it is important to check things & not just dismiss them.

I agree. Checking into it before replying is where I saw this is a big anti vax thing right now, yet all the FDA paperwork says the vaccine is the same formulation. I can see how a web search might lead someone to think it wasn’t, because there are all these “BOMBSHELL!” “Only the new name was approved!” “Still experimental!” conspiracy theory things that come up mixed in with all the boring FDA documents and press releases. I still can’t fathom why these people work so hard to get people to not be vaccinated so that more people will get sick and die 😥. I truly just can’t understand. 

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25 minutes ago, KSera said:

I still can’t fathom why these people work so hard to get people to not be vaccinated so that more people will get sick and die 😥. I truly just can’t understand. 

They (the people behind the bots) don't have the US' good at heart, that's for sure.

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4 minutes ago, SKL said:

They (the people behind the bots) don't have the US' good at heart, that's for sure.

I agree, but that’s also where I’m confused. I almost added something to that post about how the Russians must be happy at least, but I deleted because the sites that are currently promoting this new conspiracy theory (and that have been the primary sources for so much misinformation during this pandemic) are largely belonging to people in the US. People like Robert F Kennedy and the guy who runs the mercola website, and people like that. Now, they’re certainly getting a ton of clicks and a ton of money from this, so it may just come down to that for them.

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6 hours ago, KSera said:

The bots would be easy to ignore if it weren’t real life people who are responding and being influenced by them. I don’t think people are talking about the bots, they’re talking about friends and family and people they know who are repeating this stuff. It matters because without people latching onto all this baloney, we wouldn’t have overflowing hospitals and schools closing again and water rationing, not enough morgue space, etc., etc. Unfortunately the real world effects are very, very real.

I just posted this in another Covid thread, but here is potentially relevant book:

https://www.amazon.com/Constitution-Knowledge-Jonathan-Rauch/dp/0815738862

Quote

Disinformation. Trolling. Conspiracies. Social media pile-ons. Campus intolerance. On the surface, these recent additions to our daily vocabulary appear to have little in common. But together, they are driving an epistemic crisis: a multi-front challenge to America’s ability to distinguish fact from fiction and elevate truth above falsehood.

...

In this pathbreaking book, Jonathan Rauch reaches back to the parallel eighteenth-century developments of liberal democracy and science to explain what he calls the “Constitution of Knowledge”—our social system for turning disagreement into truth.

By explicating the Constitution of Knowledge and probing the war on reality, Rauch arms defenders of truth with a clearer understanding of what they must protect, why they must do—and how they can do it. His book is a sweeping and readable description of how every American can help defend objective truth and free inquiry from threats as far away as Russia and as close as the cellphone.

I haven't read it but heard an interview with the author (The Dispatch Podcast). Won't link the podcast in case it's more political than I think it is (they criticize both sides in this episode).

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9 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yes, and what I quoted was from the page of an acquaintance whose husband nearly died from Covid. I guess she thinks one of us gave it to him. How do you even combat this...

Hopefully she is being general and doesn't think that you specifically gave it to them.

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The Florida Hospital Association is sounding the alarm, saying a survey shows 68 hospitals have less than a 48-hour supply of oxygen.

Hospitals are using three to four times as much oxygen as they were before the pandemic because more than 17,000 patients are hospitalized statewide with COVID-19.

The FHA survey, which was done Wednesday, shows 68 hospitals have less than 48 hours worth of supply, with about half of these have less than 36 hours.

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2021-08-26/survey-68-florida-hospitals-have-less-than-48-hours-worth-of-oxygen

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2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

The Florida Hospital Association is sounding the alarm, saying a survey shows 68 hospitals have less than a 48-hour supply of oxygen.

Hospitals are using three to four times as much oxygen as they were before the pandemic because more than 17,000 patients are hospitalized statewide with COVID-19.

The FHA survey, which was done Wednesday, shows 68 hospitals have less than 48 hours worth of supply, with about half of these have less than 36 hours.

https://wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2021-08-26/survey-68-florida-hospitals-have-less-than-48-hours-worth-of-oxygen

How many hours reserve so they typically run with?  Is it a just in time thing or is there normally a supply?

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On 8/26/2021 at 5:05 AM, RootAnn said:

So, my understanding is that there are "limited supply" of Comirnaty but plenty of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine. The argument I read was that "since the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine is still under a EUA and only Comirnaty is FDA approved, people should make sure they are receiving the FDA approved product if they are mandated to get vaccinated." This all goes back to forcing someone to participate in an experiment/ be an experimental subject plus the ability to sue & win $$ for vaccine-related injuries.

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download

The EUA was extended for two reasons: (1) to allow the vaccine to be used in kids 12-15, which aren't covered by the full approval, and (2) to allow the vaccine that was manufactured before the full approval was granted to continue to be used. Legally, the substance that was manufactured and labeled under the EUA as Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine cannot be relabeled as the now-approved Comirnaty, even though it's the exact same thing manufactured the exact same way. So extension of the EUA allows HCPs to continue to use vaccine in boxes that say Pfizer-BioNTech until they are replaced with vaccine in boxes that say Comirnaty.

There's a good explanation of it here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/26/vaccine-conspiracy-theorists-become-even-more-desperate-after-full-fda-authorization/

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3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

This is paywalled for me. 

Here's one that isn't: 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

Super interesting. And I'd guess most of those people were infected right around the time when the vaccinations started, so the length of the immunity looks like it's longer for the natural infection, too. 

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Here's one that isn't: 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

Super interesting. And I'd guess most of those people were infected right around the time when the vaccinations started, so the length of the immunity looks like it's longer for the natural infection, too. 

One note there is that this is comparing to protection from quite early vaccines, AFTER immunity has waned. It'd be interesting to see the comparison at 4-5 months out. 

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10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Here's one that isn't: 

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-no-infection-parties

Super interesting. And I'd guess most of those people were infected right around the time when the vaccinations started, so the length of the immunity looks like it's longer for the natural infection, too. 

It also is comparing very recent repeat infections.  You have a 13x greater risk of reinfection if you got sick as recently as Jan/Feb 2021 - which is about when most people in Israel got vaxxed with Pfizer.  So, if they're only comparing recent infection, does that mean they're mostly comparing Delta cases x2 vs. the vaccine, which is not Delta-specific?

The analysis also showed that protection from an earlier infection wanes with time. The risk of a vaccine-breakthrough delta case was 13-fold higher than the risk of developing a second infection when the original illness occurred during January or February 2021. That’s significantly more than the risk for people who were ill earlier in the outbreak. 

I've heard over and over that the mRNA vaxes are great because if there's a variant that escapes the current vax, they could have a new variant-specific version out within 3 months.  WHY have they not done that for Delta?  They should be making a DELTA booster.

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10 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

 

I've heard over and over that the mRNA vaxes are great because if there's a variant that escapes the current vax, they could have a new variant-specific version out within 3 months.  WHY have they not done that for Delta?  They should be making a DELTA booster.

Exactly. I've been wondering that, too. The third shot doesn't make much sense(to me) if it barely touches Delta. Why haven't they done this?

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5 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

I've heard over and over that the mRNA vaxes are great because if there's a variant that escapes the current vax, they could have a new variant-specific version out within 3 months.  WHY have they not done that for Delta?  They should be making a DELTA booster.

Pfizer already has a Delta-specific booster, but the trial results aren't expected before October at the earliest, then it needs approval, and THEN they say they can ramp up manufacturing and have it available within 3 months. But who knows if Delta will still be the dominant variant by early next year — by then it could be C.1.2 or some other as-yet-undiscovered variant.

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14 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

It also is comparing very recent repeat infections.  You have a 13x greater risk of reinfection if you got sick as recently as Jan/Feb 2021 - which is about when most people in Israel got vaxxed with Pfizer.  So, if they're only comparing recent infection, does that mean they're mostly comparing Delta cases x2 vs. the vaccine, which is not Delta-specific?

I think the last Israeli wave wasn't Delta, though. I assume most oeioke are coming from that winter wave. 

 

14 minutes ago, Matryoshka said:

The analysis also showed that protection from an earlier infection wanes with time. The risk of a vaccine-breakthrough delta case was 13-fold higher than the risk of developing a second infection when the original illness occurred during January or February 2021. That’s significantly more than the risk for people who were ill earlier in the outbreak. 

I've heard over and over that the mRNA vaxes are great because if there's a variant that escapes the current vax, they could have a new variant-specific version out within 3 months.  WHY have they not done that for Delta?  They should be making a DELTA booster.

I guess it'd take longer to test the Delta booster than we have. However quickly we can make the vaccines, we still have to get the data. 

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess it'd take longer to test the Delta booster than we have. However quickly we can make the vaccines, we still have to get the data. 

Saying they can have a variant-specific booster ready within three months is then... quite misleading.  Yeah, ready in three months, but not in arms for another... year?  I thought the whole idea is that with the variant tweaking, it's still the same basic vaccine so it wouldn't have to go through the full approval time-line as for the original one.  With this timeline, Delta will have ripped through the population and be done before they get anything ready for use...

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5 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

Exactly. I've been wondering that, too. The third shit doesn't make much sense(to me) if it barely touches Delta. Why haven't they done this?

Pfizer says a 3rd shot of the original vaccine significantly boosted antibodies above the level of the original shot, and it was even more effective for the elderly — I think it was something like 10x increase in over 65s and 5x in younger people. Moderna's booster though just brought the antibody levels back up to where they were after the original two doses.

 

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