The Vaccine Thread

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, vonfirmath said:

You say that now. But 6 months from now I can see the villifying start for those who reject the boosters.  The goalposts keep moving to avoid cultural condemination

I mean, I'll assume people who don't take the boosters are on average making the wrong call, just like I do now with the vaccines. But what am I supposed to do? We're obviously not going to hit herd immunity, anyway, given vaccine resistance and also the fact that immunity wanes too quickly. 

So then it's every man and woman for themselves, and what people do is up to them. That's how I've always treated vaccines, anyway -- I know MANY homeschoolers who don't vaccinate, and while I tend to think that's a bad decision for most of them, I don't mind that much since my kids are vaxxed. I see myself going the same way for COVID. 

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

You say that now. But 6 months from now I can see the villifying start for those who reject the boosters.  The goalposts keep moving to avoid cultural condemination

Only if we have evidence that not getting a booster is driving up hospitalizations, etc. As of now, that is not what we are seeing. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Only if we have evidence that not getting a booster is driving up hospitalizations, etc. As of now, that is not what we are seeing. 

I'm sure it will eventually, lol. Why wouldn't it?

[ktgrok]

And the goalposts move when the data changes. 

When the vaccine was keeping people from getting infected and transmitting upwards of 90% of the time, yay. Now that we have Delta, and it is much less effective on that variant, ideas change. 

That's common sense. 

[ktgrok]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I'm sure it will eventually, lol. Why wouldn't it?

Right now, it is unvaccinated people driving up hospitalization and ICU cases. If that changes, recommendations may change. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, ktgrok said:

Right now, it is unvaccinated people driving up hospitalization and ICU cases. If that changes, recommendations may change. 

Since immunity vanes, I do think that in a while, "unvaccinated" will mean "someone who didn't get a shot within the last year." Like with flu shots. 

I can't say I'm happy about that, given how much I disliked the shot. But I'm hoping they iron out the dosing/spacing/etc. 

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I have a real concern that booster shots are going to be a hard sell. Especially if we are heading back to mandatory masking, I can see a lot of people figuring why bother vaccinating if they have to mask anyway.  

I agree, but I want a booster when it's available anyway. I am not sure if I've ever had the flu, though I think DH had it 18 or so years ago. The shot may not be 100%, but most of the people I know who get the flu don't get the shot. I think at some point we'll have boosters that provide overlapping coverage like the flu shot, and people who get the boosters consistently like they do the flu shot will be unlikely to get Covid just like they are unlikely to get the flu. 

2 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Please happen here soon.  I heard something fast on the news last night (don't have an article on it) that said a 3rd shot gives 5 times protection for young people and 11 times for older people.  

That would be awesome! I am curious about the timing--if it's better to wait for waning immunity or just get a third shot as soon as it's available, or if that depends on what Delta and other variants are up to. I can see the recommendations varying by location and on timing of the first two shots. 

6 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

You say that now. But 6 months from now I can see the villifying start for those who reject the boosters.  The goalposts keep moving to avoid cultural condemination

Well, I think it depends how long it takes to keep mutations from forming so rapidly and how long it takes to become as endemic as the flu. We still can have novel flu viruses with pandemic potential, but who knows how long it will take for coronavirus variants to settle into a seasonal pattern where loss of life and healthcare chaos isn't a possibility.

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I mean, I'll assume people who don't take the boosters are on average making the wrong call, just like I do now with the vaccines. But what am I supposed to do? We're obviously not going to hit herd immunity, anyway, given vaccine resistance and also the fact that immunity wanes too quickly. 

So then it's every man and woman for themselves, and what people do is up to them. That's how I've always treated vaccines, anyway -- I know MANY homeschoolers who don't vaccinate, and while I tend to think that's a bad decision for most of them, I don't mind that much since my kids are vaxxed. I see myself going the same way for COVID. 

I agree, but the variant problem is driving me nuts. I am so annoyed that I did the right thing and am no longer as protected as I was just a few weeks ago because of delta. I am doing my own thing, but I will still be subject to tons of exposure from those who don't care. Ugh.

[vonfirmath]

Let's look at it another way. A way that doesn't point fingers and make our countrymen the enemy.

These countries that are struggling to get the vaccines to their populations ONCE? They don't have annual flu shots. They won't be able to keep up with every 6 months boosters. If vaccination is the only option, we are not getting out of this.

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by vonfirmath

[kbutton]

I wonder if we'll ultimately have trivalent and quadrivalent seasonal doses for covid, and if so, if those who get a first time shot, say, a year or two from now will end up getting original strains and new ones together?

 

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Let's look at it another way. A way that doesn't point fingers and make our countrymen the enemy.

These countries that are struggling to get the vaccines to their populations ONCE? They don't have annual flu shots. They won't be able to keep up with every 6 months boosters. If vaccination is the only option, we are not getting out of this.

 

Well, we don't know that there will be boosters every 6 months. 

For instance, we vaccinate many things with a series of 3 or 4, but then don't need boosters for years if ever. 

Look at the Hep B vaccine, for instance. 

[Kanin]

10 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I agree, but the variant problem is driving me nuts. I am so annoyed that I did the right thing and am no longer as protected as I was just a few weeks ago because of delta. I am doing my own thing, but I will still be subject to tons of exposure from those who don't care. Ugh.

Same!

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Let's look at it another way. A way that doesn't point fingers and make our countrymen the enemy.

These countries that are struggling to get the vaccines to their populations ONCE? They don't have annual flu shots. They won't be able to keep up with every 6 months boosters. If vaccination is the only option, we are not getting out of this.

 

Who are “we”? I agree that some poor countries will have more trouble than the US. But then they have all sorts of endemic diseases we do not.

[kbutton]

1 minute ago, vonfirmath said:

Let's look at it another way. A way that doesn't point fingers and make our countrymen the enemy.

These countries that are struggling to get the vaccines to their populations ONCE? They don't have annual flu shots. They won't be able to keep up with every 6 months boosters. If vaccination is the only option, we are not getting out of this.

If we had better uptake early on in combination with other precautions like masking (truly doing it, not letting it be up for grabs whether people do it), better contact tracing, etc., there would've been fewer opportunities for variants.

It's never been either/or, but I think there was, at one point, an opportunity for entire countries who do have vaccine access to bring it to a slow burn in their own countries, and then those countries aren't exporting it, and any imported strains have less fuel to burn through. 

This might not be a great analogy, but if people had kept numbers down while vaccinating, a country like the US could maybe be seen as having made a firebreak/controlled burn--a gap between us and the consequences, especially serious illness and death. But instead, we have kind of a firebreak, but it's not a great one--vegetation is coming back (vaccinated but Delta or some who had Covid but could get Delta). Parts of the area that was prepared will have a controlled burn, but we still have a really big area where no preparation has been made at all. That area is all ready to go up in flames (lots of death, long term complications), but worse yet, it's making the firebreaks/controlled burn area more susceptible to fires because of where it's placed. 

We didn't have to let so much dry tinder accumulate even if some parts of the world had no choice. Saying we can't control what happens in other countries denies what we can do here. We can determine to not feed the fire. 

I think someone already said this, but it might've been a different thread...if this were ebola on the loose, I think it would scare people straight.

 

[catz]

I actually think it will be interesting to watching India in the coming months and how things progress there.  70+% of samples are showing covid antibodies.  

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-reports-43654-new-covid-19-cases-last-24-hours-2021-07-28/

[kbutton]

I read a proverb once that went something like, "If everyone swept their own doorstep, the whole world would be clean." Doing what we can is a contribution to the whole. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I will definitely get a booster.  But part of my job is talking to vaccine hesitant people, so anything that makes that worse is on high on my radar.  It’s not just “anti-vax” reasons that people give, but concern over side effects and taking time off work.  While they might sound crazy, I’m working with a low socioeconomic population and a day off work is a huge deal.  If you’ve known six people with Covid and all six were not really symptomatic or just had a cold, and the state paid them to stay home and quarantine, vs you’ve known 12 people who got the shot and had bad side effects and had to take off work and didn’t get paid, what are you going to do?  Then you hear that you have to mask anyway, even if vaccinated.  And then you might have to get a booster, and who knows how many boosters? How many more days off work and feeling sick is that?

I hear this over and over.  So I’m all about a booster if needed, but I also talk to people every work day who didn’t get vaccinated for these reasons, and I don’t have the answers.

[KSera]

 

12 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I will definitely get a booster.  But part of my job is talking to vaccine hesitant people, so anything that makes that worse is on high on my radar.  It’s not just “anti-vax” reasons that people give, but concern over side effects and taking time off work.  While they might sound crazy, I’m working with a low socioeconomic population and a day off work is a huge deal.  If you’ve known six people with Covid and all six were not really symptomatic or just had a cold, and the state paid them to stay home and quarantine, vs you’ve known 12 people who got the shot and had bad side effects and had to take off work and didn’t get paid, what are you going to do?  Then you hear that you have to mask anyway, even if vaccinated.  And then you might have to get a booster, and who knows how many boosters? How many more days off work and feeling sick is that?

I hear this over and over.  So I’m all about a booster if needed, but I also talk to people every work day who didn’t get vaccinated for these reasons, and I don’t have the answers.

The people not vaccinating for these reasons, are actually the most reachable. I think we should do whatever we can to help people in that situation be able to be vaccinated. I’ve thought from the beginning of vaccination that we need to be providing employers and employees with a way to compensate for any missed time due to vaccine side effects. That’s a doable thing to accomplish. For most of the people I’m hearing on the news who have just lost unvaccinated family members to Covid and are pleading with people to get the vaccine though, that hasn’t been the reason. Most of them say they were duped into thinking that Covid was no big deal and the vaccine was dangerous and now they regret it.

[Not_a_Number]

17 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I will definitely get a booster.  But part of my job is talking to vaccine hesitant people, so anything that makes that worse is on high on my radar.  It’s not just “anti-vax” reasons that people give, but concern over side effects and taking time off work.  While they might sound crazy, I’m working with a low socioeconomic population and a day off work is a huge deal.  If you’ve known six people with Covid and all six were not really symptomatic or just had a cold, and the state paid them to stay home and quarantine, vs you’ve known 12 people who got the shot and had bad side effects and had to take off work and didn’t get paid, what are you going to do?  Then you hear that you have to mask anyway, even if vaccinated.  And then you might have to get a booster, and who knows how many boosters? How many more days off work and feeling sick is that?

I hear this over and over.  So I’m all about a booster if needed, but I also talk to people every work day who didn’t get vaccinated for these reasons, and I don’t have the answers.

I’m impressed people are managing to know no one who had serious COVID. I almost wonder if this is due to people’s decisions not to talk about it. I mean, we’re in the protected class who could huddle at home and distance, and we STILL know enough scary stories to worry.

[Syllieann]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’m impressed people are managing to know no one who had serious COVID. I almost wonder if this is due to people’s decisions not to talk about it. I mean, we’re in the protected class who could huddle at home and distance, and we STILL know enough scary stories to worry.

DH's stepdad has long covid but refuses to admit it.  He can't be on his feet more than half an hour and has blood clots all over his lungs.  He presents it as just getting older, doctors aren't sure, etc.  Dh's aunt died of pneumonia that was secondary to covid.  A certain segment of the family says she died of pneumonia.  Full stop.

I think everyone knows someone who has had problems from it, but they might not know that they know someone with problems from it.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’m impressed people are managing to know no one who had serious COVID. I almost wonder if this is due to people’s decisions not to talk about it. I mean, we’re in the protected class who could huddle at home and distance, and we STILL know enough scary stories to worry.

We had few deaths locally and never really reached ICU capacity due to Covid(we have recently because of other things though).  Most people here don’t know anyone who had a serious case of Covid.  There is the vaccine hesitant who don’t think Covid is a big deal or simply don’t vaccinate, but I don’t think they are going to change their mind at this point.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

We had few deaths locally and never really reached ICU capacity due to Covid(we have recently because of other things though).  Most people here don’t know anyone who had a serious case of Covid.  There is the vaccine hesitant who don’t think Covid is a big deal or simply don’t vaccinate, but I don’t think they are going to change their mind at this point.

It's too bad that this run of luck could very well end with Delta 😕 . I hope it doesn't. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Syllieann said:

DH's stepdad has long covid but refuses to admit it.  He can't be on his feet more than half an hour and has blood clots all over his lungs.  He presents it as just getting older, doctors aren't sure, etc.  Dh's aunt died of pneumonia that was secondary to covid.  A certain segment of the family says she died of pneumonia.  Full stop.

I think everyone knows someone who has had problems from it, but they might not know that they know someone with problems from it.

Thanks for confirming. I've been wondering if that's going on.

I know that even in our protected family, DH's great-uncle died, and DH has coworkers he doesn't know closely who have long COVID. I also definitely know people who had mild cases: one toddler, our babysitter, the great-uncle's wife, a dad in a local homeschooling family... obviously, both possibilities are around. But given our personal sample, I'd be surprised if anyone living in an area where COVID has at any point been rampant doesn't know someone who's had a bad case. 

[Not_a_Number]

I guess there's always the possibility that someone knows mostly young people, and young people who aren't necessarily open about long-term symptoms. That would do it. 

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Most people here don’t know anyone who had a serious case of Covid.

I'm still stuck on the fact that even if people don't know someone personally who did, can't they look at the numbers in the US and across the world, and come to the conclusion that it clearly is a very big deal for a very large number of people, and that it just appears they have been lucky so far to not know someone? Why does it have to be someone they know personally?

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, KSera said:

I'm still stuck on the fact that even if people don't know someone personally who did, can't they look at the numbers in the US and across the world, and come to the conclusion that it clearly is a very big deal for a very large number of people, and that it just appears they have been lucky so far to not know someone? Why does it have to be someone they know personally?

I mean, I kind of get this, psychologically. I was totally feeling a completely unreasonable sense of security back when COVID was serious in Italy but not serious here. I'm not really sure why, to be honest -- it just somehow didn't affect my life enough for me to think about it. 

Now, it's true that it's been 1.5 years since then and people ought to know better 😛 . But I bet the psychology is similar. 

[JennyD]

20 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 I mean, we’re in the protected class who could huddle at home and distance, and we STILL know enough scary stories to worry.

Same.  Back in March 2020 my MIL sent me some thing from an epidemiologist who said "you will know people who die from this," and I thought it was a ridiculous exaggeration.  Nope.  I think of that email often.

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by JennyD

[mommyoffive]

People are dressing in disguise for COVID-19 vaccines, Missouri doctor says (msn.com)

 

The effectiveness of Pfizer’s COVID-19 shot can drop to 83.7% within four to six months after getting the second dose of its vaccine. This is the latest indication that vaccine-induced immunity to the virus can wane and some kind of boost may be necessary in the future.

New research published Wednesday as a preprint indicates that the Pfizer Inc. PFE, -0.62% shot provides 96.2% protection for the first two months, 90.1% effectiveness between the second and fourth months, and between 83.7% of protection for the fourth, fifth, and six months. 

“We will need a booster eight to 12 months from the second dose,” Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said Wednesday, according to a FactSet transcript of the company’s second-quarter earnings call. 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

I'm still stuck on the fact that even if people don't know someone personally who did, can't they look at the numbers in the US and across the world, and come to the conclusion that it clearly is a very big deal for a very large number of people, and that it just appears they have been lucky so far to not know someone? Why does it have to be someone they know personally?

A lot of people don’t watch the news or read newspapers or news articles online. They are not scientifically literate and don’t pay a lot of attention to nationwide statistics.  This is a large part of the population that I work with through the county health department. We are talking about a county where the median individual income is $28,000 a year and only 25% have a bachelor’s degree or higher according the US Census bureau.  They know their neighbors, coworkers and maybe church members.   There’s many people who are minorities or of ethnicities that generally do not trust the government and are suspicious of some white woman encouraging them to get vaccinated.

Getting people vaccinated is an uphill battle but we’re almost at 50 percent of eligible adults. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[ktgrok]

1 minute ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

A lot of people don’t watch the news or read newspapers or news articles online. They are not scientifically literate and don’t pay a lot of attention to nationwide statistics.  This is a large part of the population that I work with through the county health department. We are talking about a county where the median individual income is $28,000 a year and only 25% have a bachelor’s degree or higher according the US Census bureau.  They know their neighbors, coworkers and maybe church members.   Getting people vaccinated is an uphill battle but we’re almost at 50 percent of eligible adults. 

Yup. 

When my neighbor got it I brought soup and mentioned how contagious Delta was. He'd never heard of it. This was only a few weeks ago - Delta was all over the news everywhere. but he gets his news from facebook memes and sketchy youtube videos. 

[mommyoffive]

Biden calls on states to offer $100 vaccine incentives (msn.com)

[Laura Corin]

Behind the Masks, a Mystery: How Often Do the Vaccinated Spread the Virus? https://nyti.ms/3xavpDl

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I’m impressed people are managing to know no one who had serious COVID. I almost wonder if this is due to people’s decisions not to talk about it. I mean, we’re in the protected class who could huddle at home and distance, and we STILL know enough scary stories to worry.

I think it is deciding to not talk about it. We know someone whose family was pretty scared to tell people several family members had it because they were getting some backlash. It hit their family through a caregiver that picked it up in the community. 

We knew more scary stories than not at the beginning, and four older family members died (three were very active). A couple we're related to got quite sick in Florida--they wore masks and basically did only medical appointments and had groceries dumped into their trunk. That's it. They are pretty sure one of them picked it up at the doctor's office. 

One story makes me furious if I think about it too hard. A friend got it and didn't have to go to the ER, but she had it early on before people monitored oxygen sats and such--that advice hadn't gone around here much. Anyway, she did get to a point where she felt like she had to pray to be able to breathe. You'd think that would make her want to tell people to be careful. Nope. She gave "glory to God" for giving her each and every breath and making her feel safe, and he could do that for everyone. This is someone that wears seat belts, obeys traffic laws, and teaches her kids to cross the street properly, so I would assume she was still hypoxic except that she's been consistently all about Freedom ever since.

I think I stated this months ago, but it was like I watched a cloud fall over people I thought I knew well (and did know for years), including types who were likely to give you the shirt off their back. It was like in Wrinkle in Time (book) where people's eyes did that weird thing when they were starting to listen to the disembodied brain's ideas. They start parroting things, and they became impervious to truth. It was utterly creepy to watch. Many people used the same words for it all, and a lot of it turned out to be related to Q stuff and influencers who spout Q stuff. Some people knew that, and some didn't. 

I do know ONE person at church that stated on social media that she hates it when people downplay the pandemic because it's changed her life permanently. I don't know what happened though. 

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I guess there's always the possibility that someone knows mostly young people, and young people who aren't necessarily open about long-term symptoms. That would do it. 

A family at a friend's church lost a 20ish young man because his parents wouldn't take him to the ER. They were sorry afterwards, but they were really convinced it was a hoax. That particular church has been really good about following guidelines and promoting the vaccine though they have a few hold outs. I think they started precautions before this young man died, so I am not sure where that family got their views.

4 hours ago, JennyD said:

Same.  Back in March 2020 my MIL sent me some thing from an epidemiologist who said "you will know people who die from this," and I thought it was a ridiculous exaggeration.  Nope.  I think of that email often.

I was sick inside--we thought it would be my DH or our family since he's a frontline worker. Thank God our state acted proactively early to shut down and to secure PPE because our area has not taken it seriously. I never thought the US would go for lockdowns, so I didn't hold out much hope for anything other misery to ensue. (And it has, but it could've been so much worse without lockdowns, I think.)

I really was picturing field tents all over the state (but lockdowns really did prevent that). DH was being surveyed ahead of time to see how far outside his scope of practice he was willing to go. So not cool. One of his co-workers was already down with it, and as of November, she's not recovered (young and healthy previously). He had been working a lot of shifts with her until about two weeks before it was declared a pandemic. He could've been exposed to the same patient. 

[mommyoffive]

Corporate America to workers: Get vaccinated or get out (msn.com)

"You must be vaccinated if you want to come to work," he tells me. "There are some organizations that are trying one more step before that. They're saying, if you choose not to be vaccinated, then you will have to be tested several times during the week on your own dime. And you will have to wear a mask in the workplace and not any mask, but that N95 surgical mask. I mean, we are going to, at the end of the day, make this a little uncomfortable for you because you're making it uncomfortable and the workplace less comfortable for your colleagues."

That's the case for MGM Grand. Unvaccinated workers must regularly test for the virus, and if found positive, they will quarantine -- without pay.

[KSera]

18 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

And you will have to wear a mask in the workplace and not any mask, but that N95 surgical mask.

This would make a huge difference. I would feel much better going in businesses, and even taking my unvaccinated kids, if people were all wearing really good, well fitted masks. I know people can't all get fit tested, but testing on real people shows a good mask with a good fit doing a really good job.

[Not_a_Number]

On 6/10/2021 at 11:18 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Honestly, I have a bit of an "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you may die" feeling about this summer. It feels like FOR NOW, things are safe near where I am, and I'm going to darn well enjoy it. But my ability to predict what happens next (both with and without vaccines) is really low 😕 . 

Oooh, look, I found a wise quote of mine from a month ago. Anyone ever feel like they'd rather NOT be prescient?? I hate getting back on this hamster wheel. 

[mommyoffive]

29 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oooh, look, I found a wise quote of mine from a month ago. Anyone ever feel like they'd rather NOT be prescient?? I hate getting back on this hamster wheel. 

Yep.  I have been right a lot during this.  I want to not be right anymore.  But I wasn't right on the timing of this.  I really thought we would have until October before this hit.  And I didn't see how bad this was going to be for the vaccinated. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Yep.  I have been right a lot during this.  I want to not be right anymore.  But I wasn't right on the timing of this.  I really thought we would have until October before this hit.  And I didn't see how bad this was going to be for the vaccinated. 

I also thought we had until October. And I'm also incredibly sick of being right. 

[mommyoffive]

Israel to offer third Covid-19 vaccine dose to people over 60 - CNN

[mommyoffive]

The CDC documents show that since January, people who got infected after vaccination make up an increasing portion of hospitalisations and in-hospital deaths among Covid-19 patients, the Associated Press reports.

Van Kerkhove added that Covid-19 variants are not targeting children in the UK.

Coronavirus live news: WHO says Delta variant not more deadly as CDC warns over transmissibility | World news | The Guardian

 

 

Broadway theatres to require Covid-19 vaccinations and masks

Covid-19 vaccinations and masks will be required for all Broadway audience members when theaters reopen in the coming weeks, New York theatre operators announced today.

 

Audience members will have to wear face coverings and show proof they are fully vaccinated when they enter the theatres, the Broadway League said.

There will be exceptions to the vaccine rule for children under 12, who are not yet eligible for any of the approved shots, and for people with a medical condition or religious belief that prevents vaccination, the theatre operators said. Those individuals will need to show proof of a negative Covid-19 test, the Associated Press reports.

Vaccinations will also be required for all performers, crew members and theatre employees, the league said. Bruce Springsteen’s one-man show is the only performance currently running on Broadway.

Meanwhile, Walmart has made it mandatory for its retail workers in US counties with substantial or high transmission of coronavirus to wear masks in its stores, clubs and distribution centres, according to a memo reported by Reuters.

The memo also showed retail workers would receive an incentive of $150, double the amount it had been paying, to get inoculated, with those already paid $75 set to receive the rest next month.

[frogger]

23 hours ago, KSera said:

I'm still stuck on the fact that even if people don't know someone personally who did, can't they look at the numbers in the US and across the world, and come to the conclusion that it clearly is a very big deal for a very large number of people, and that it just appears they have been lucky so far to not know someone? Why does it have to be someone they know personally?

Because they are brainwashed to think all those people actually died from something else or at least some people. They are told that really the people died of a stroke or heart attack but just tested positive for Covid so that was put on their death certificate.

When DH's grandma died there was a lot of talk of "making sure" they didn't put Covid on the death certificate. It wasn't put on there because that isn't what she died from but they thought there would be an attempt to. 🙄

If everyone you know that has it says it feels like a cold it can be confusing and then you are fed all these other lies. I don't think people are evil and selfish; I think most are just confused and frightened by gov't actions.

[historically accurate]

22 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Biden calls on states to offer $100 vaccine incentives (msn.com)

I work in a public library, so technically I'm a city employee. We were told today that the city will give us a $50 bonus for showing them our vaccination card. 

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, historically accurate said:

I work in a public library, so technically I'm a city employee. We were told today that the city will give us a $50 bonus for showing them our vaccination card. 

Good.  It bugs me that the ones I have seen are not backtracking for people.  So the people who went and got it right away don't get anything.  

[Syllieann]

26 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Good.  It bugs me that the ones I have seen are not backtracking for people.  So the people who went and got it right away don't get anything.  

Right, so then people are like no, I'm going to wait until they offer more...ugh.

[mommyoffive]

FDA Puts All Hands on Deck to Review Pfizer-BioNTech Covid Shot (msn.com)

[Frances]

4 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

Good.  It bugs me that the ones I have seen are not backtracking for people.  So the people who went and got it right away don't get anything.  

My state gave $100 to public employees fully vaccinated before the end of the month, so it actually favored those who vaccinated early.

[Ausmumof3]

Someone floated the idea here of a million dollar lottery but anyone vaccinated by a certain date gets automatic entry.  

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Parents consider lying to public health officials to secure vaccine for under 12 children - NBC

 

It makes sense to me. It seems the majority of people are deciding for themselves whether or not to vaccinate, so I’m guessing it’s no different when deciding for their kids. Children certainly grow, mature, and develop at different rates, so an age cutoff is somewhat arbitrary. By 12 some kids are completely done with puberty and have reached their full adult height and weight and others haven’t even started puberty. So if my child was right on the border of not qualifying by age and was heading back to school, especially in a low vaccine state, I would probably consider it. Although I would likely defer to the recommendation of the healthcare professionals and scientists in the family.

[Frances]

1 minute ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Someone floated the idea here of a million dollar lottery but anyone vaccinated by a certain date gets automatic entry.  

We did it in my state. After the announcement, vaccine rates continued to decline. There were also smaller prizes by county and some large college scholarships.

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Someone floated the idea here of a million dollar lottery but anyone vaccinated by a certain date gets automatic entry.  

Our state did that. They've just handed out the first two checks, $1m for an adult,  and a $300k college scholarship for a teen. Four more of each of these awards is coming up.

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

It makes sense to me. It seems the majority of people are deciding for themselves whether or not to vaccinate, so I’m guessing it’s no different when deciding for their kids. Children certainly grow, mature, and develop at different rates, so an age cutoff is somewhat arbitrary. By 12 some kids are completely done with puberty and have reached their full adult height and weight and others haven’t even started puberty. So if my child was right on the border of not qualifying by age and was heading back to school, especially in a low vaccine state, I would probably consider it. Although I would likely defer to the recommendation of the healthcare professionals and scientists in the family.

We've had someone think about this on this forum, lol.