The Vaccine Thread

[ieta_cassiopeia]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:10 AM, ktgrok said:

I think she meant more that we could be testing on various age groups at once at this point. 

I don't think the law allows that in all places; the younger the child, the more risks there are, especially when dosing modifications for teenagers are yet to be established.

(Edited as I realied from reading some other responses that American law does allow this).

Edited March 5, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[kokotg]

Good thread on twitter re: J&J: 

I have a couple of concerns about J&J--one is whether it prevents long term covid effects, given how often those are seen with mild disease. The other is whether it's less effective at preventing transmission to unvaccinated people than the others (it seems like it would be given that it's less effective at preventing symptomatic illness at all, but I don't know if there's any official word on it). In Georgia the governor has said that all of our J&J supply will be reserved for teachers, and honestly, this seems like the WORST population to vaccinate with J&J, given that they'll be in contact with tons and tons of unvaccinated people in the short to medium term. There are the transmission concerns and also the fact that even mild illness wreaks havoc on schools because of staffing issues. And, yeah, also the fact--as this twitter thread points out--that how hard TPTB are pushing it as being just as good kind of smells like "you don't need to wear a mask!" from back in the spring, and it erodes trust.

[ieta_cassiopeia]

I think I'd have been inclined to reserve the J&J for people who were likely to have problems with making it to two appointments (that being its main strength over the other options the USA has approved), if I was going to reserve it for any particular population at all.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

As much as I know the elderly need the vaccines, if we are going to keep teachers from quitting, this was the right call. Especially since kids won't be vaccinated for who knows how long. The grocery check out person will at least be in contact mostly with other adults, who are hopefuly going to be vaccinated in a few months. Teachers will be the ones left dealing with a totally unvaccinated population. 

Grocery store check out people are dealing with thousands and thousands of different customers day in and out including children who come super close to them during checkout. 
And unlike other privileged employees who have been sitting home since March (as in CA) and throwing demands, grocery employees (many with preexisting conditions) have been on their feet and in person working every single day of this pandemic. They also have families and I bet many are medically vulnerable.

I am done with this teacher adoration. 

[Roadrunner]

2 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

re annual COVID boosters

Perhaps so. And: here's my arm.  If that is what it takes to haul ourselves out from this miasma, Dayenu.

There've been a lot of lessons in the last year. Among them: Americans have very, very, very little endurance.  There have been REAL hardships and loss, and I am not referring to that. More the kvetching about inconveniences: not being able to get preferred % of milk, or to go to the nail salon, or that the price of chicken increased, or constraints on preferred vacations.

So we might have to get an annual booster. Shrug.

 

re teachers' eligibility

This is due to Biden's decision earlier this week to use the federal pharmacy partnership program -- which has its own vaccine allocation, parallel but separate from the states' allocation -- to prioritize teachers whether or not the states are doing so. 

Until this decision, the pharmacies have followed whatever the state guidelines were. But starting next week, ALL participating pharmacies in ALL states will provide vaccine to public and private K-12 teachers.

(The communication of this, and the implications, seems to have been uneven thus far. It didn't affect CT since teachers already were eligible under state guidelines. But in my area it affects MA and NY, and the word seems not to have gotten out very well. If you are or know a teacher in any state, spread the word: sign up now for Walgreen / Walmart / CVS portals -- you have to do each one separately, and start trolling for appointments as of midnight on Sunday.)

I think there is an unrealistic expectation among people that the pandemic will just end. Period. I think we need to figure out a way to live with this as we fight. We need a shift in thinking. There is enough data now to be able to resume life with modifications - install filters, improve air circulation, UV disinfect large concert halls, continue masking, using booster shots..... Instead I see our children’s orchestra just sitting and waiting for this pandemic to magically disappear. Our CC will be online again next Fall. We could have fundraisers to improve ventilation, created smaller groups, moved some things outside.... everybody is paralyzed here. 

[Laura Corin]

These are the riskiest professions in England and Wales.  The ONS is the Office for National Statistics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Pam in CT]

re "re-entry" challenges

2 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think there is an unrealistic expectation among people that the pandemic will just end. Period. I think we need to figure out a way to live with this as we fight. We need a shift in thinking. There is enough data now to be able to resume life with modifications - install filters, improve air circulation, UV disinfect large concert halls, continue masking, using booster shots..... Instead I see our children’s orchestra just sitting and waiting for this pandemic to magically disappear. Our CC will be online again next Fall. We could have fundraisers to improve ventilation, created smaller groups, moved some things outside.... everybody is paralyzed here. 

I agree.  My extended family is *already* grappling with the phased aspect of re-entry -- the octogenarians are fully vaccinated; a handful of the middle-aged cohort is partially or fully vaccinated if their jobs have given them priority; and the younger generation is not.

So is it time for a full-family celebration of my youngest's high school graduation this spring (as we did for her siblings)? If not, can the subset who lives within 30-40 minutes meet up for an outdoor dining dinner? Can I stay over at my mother's apartment?  Can she stay here if my unvaccinated kids are home?  And even if I could convince *myself* that there's a line somewhere in that zone of uncertainty that *I'm* reasonably comfortable with... my aunt or my daughter will, inevitably, draw the line in a somewhat different place. We'd gotten pretty good at managing through the earlier stages of this. But now the lines are shifting week to week.

 

[kokotg]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

Grocery store check out people are dealing with thousands and thousands of different customers day in and out including children who come super close to them during checkout. 
And unlike other privileged employees who have been sitting home since March (as in CA) and throwing demands, grocery employees (many with preexisting conditions) have been on their feet and in person working every single day of this pandemic. They also have families and I bet many are medically vulnerable.

I am done with this teacher adoration. 

Teachers in Florida where ktgrok is and in Georgia where I am and in many, many other places have been working in person since late summer/early fall. In much of my state, they've been doing it with no mask requirements and very few students wearing masks. The incidence rate for teachers in the counties with no mask mandates near me has often been as much as 8 or 9 times as high as for the general population of those counties. I certainly think grocery store employees should also be prioritized, but I am done with people pretending like there aren't many, many teachers who are and long have been at increased risk.

[Roadrunner]

3 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Teachers in Florida where ktgrok is and in Georgia where I am and in many, many other places have been working in person since late summer/early fall. In much of my state, they've been doing it with no mask requirements and very few students wearing masks. The incidence rate for teachers in the counties with no mask mandates near me has often been as much as 8 or 9 times as high as for the general population of those counties. I certainly think grocery store employees should also be prioritized, but I am done with people pretending like there aren't many, many teachers who are and long have been at increased risk.

Here all teachers are at home.

then I suggest vaccinating all high risk working individuals (teachers or grocery workers). 

[ktgrok]

 

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Here all teachers are at home.

then I suggest vaccinating all high risk working individuals (teachers or grocery workers). 

Aw, gotcha. Here most are in person. My sister has several thousand students, plus several hundred teachers, that she interacts with daily, in confined spaces, 8 hours a day. A grocery worker has exposure to more people, but each person for only a few minutes. A teacher has exposure for hours and hours, day in and day out, with lower ceilings, aging ventilation, etc. 

I do think that vaccinating anyone who works outside the home would be good, before those who work at home. But teachers here are definitely high risk. And burnt the heck out - much like grocery workers. My sister has been called a nazi, threatened, etc just for trying to enforce covid safety guidelines. It is brutal. (that's parents, not the kids!)

[kokotg]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

Here all teachers are at home.

then I suggest vaccinating all high risk working individuals (teachers or grocery workers). 

It's very hard to have a nationwide conversation about schools because people's regional experiences are SO DIFFERENT right now. I think it's hard for people in places like CA to conceive of what's been going on in other parts of the country. I WORRY about my husband in his school district that's taking some precautions (though certainly not nearly all of the ones the CDC recommends), but I'm HORRIFIED by how teachers are being treated in other districts very near by. Which maybe is why I won't shut up about it. It's criminal. And I'm not talking about tiny rural counties, but large exurban districts with tens of thousands of students. 

The problem with not prioritizing teachers in places that have remained online, though, is that everyone wants those schools to reopen F2F and vaccinating teachers is how you get there.

[Roadrunner]

26 minutes ago, kokotg said:

It's very hard to have a nationwide conversation about schools because people's regional experiences are SO DIFFERENT right now. I think it's hard for people in places like CA to conceive of what's been going on in other parts of the country. I WORRY about my husband in his school district that's taking some precautions (though certainly not nearly all of the ones the CDC recommends), but I'm HORRIFIED by how teachers are being treated in other districts very near by. Which maybe is why I won't shut up about it. It's criminal. And I'm not talking about tiny rural counties, but large exurban districts with tens of thousands of students. 

The problem with not prioritizing teachers in places that have remained online, though, is that everyone wants those schools to reopen F2F and vaccinating teachers is how you get there.

very different experience here. 

We have fewer than 250 active cases for over 450k people and schools have been shut down for the entire year. Our CC already made a decision to be online next fall. Even with vaccines. Apparently the faculty was asked what they wanted, and many have bought homes out of the area, so they decided they want to work online. Damn the students. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Roadrunner

[TCB]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

I think there is an unrealistic expectation among people that the pandemic will just end. Period. I think we need to figure out a way to live with this as we fight. We need a shift in thinking. There is enough data now to be able to resume life with modifications - install filters, improve air circulation, UV disinfect large concert halls, continue masking, using booster shots..... Instead I see our children’s orchestra just sitting and waiting for this pandemic to magically disappear. Our CC will be online again next Fall. We could have fundraisers to improve ventilation, created smaller groups, moved some things outside.... everybody is paralyzed here. 

I agree that we should be finding ways to use what we know to do more of the things we want to do. The problem in my area, though, is that the mindset of many here is not to compromise. They want everything to be exactly as normal and won’t make any concessions to the virus. So those who value any caution at all have to stay away. There are many things going on as normal around me, however there are a number of things completely canceled because of the pushback against any precautions at all.

[Roadrunner]

30 minutes ago, TCB said:

I agree that we should be finding ways to use what we know to do more of the things we want to do. The problem in my area, though, is that the mindset of many here is not to compromise. They want everything to be exactly as normal and won’t make any concessions to the virus. So those who value any caution at all have to stay away. There are many things going on as normal around me, however there are a number of things completely canceled because of the pushback against any precautions at all.

I think we need to take steps forward. For example, colleges might want to keep large lectures online, but I don’t see why a class with fewer than 20 kids can’t run in person. Or why labs can’t be in person (require gloves and require kids to wipe down equipment as they exit). So maybe the entire orchestra can’t play, but I have lost my voice trying  to tell them to create small chamber groups, charge differently, and use the outside space (string players can mask and weather here is great year round) to do some group playing. We won’t be able to go from zero to hundred, but with vaccines and masks, we can go to 20, and then 40, and eventually as close to 100 as we can. People think they can sit and all of a sudden a day will come when they can jump back to total normalcy. We need to slowly walk there and we need to start walking now. 

[Laura Corin]

39 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think we need to take steps forward. For example, colleges might want to keep large lectures online, but I don’t see why a class with fewer than 20 kids can’t run in person. Or why labs can’t be in person (require gloves and require kids to wipe down equipment as they exit). So maybe the entire orchestra can’t play, but I have lost my voice trying  to tell them to create small chamber groups, charge differently, and use the outside space (string players can mask and weather here is great year round) to do some group playing. We won’t be able to go from zero to hundred, but with vaccines and masks, we can go to 20, and then 40, and eventually as close to 100 as we can. People think they can sit and all of a sudden a day will come when they can jump back to total normalcy. We need to slowly walk there and we need to start walking now. 

Last semester the university where I  work had lectures online and tutorials in person: masked and spread out in big venues. There were no recorded cases of transmission in a class. I can see that system being back in place in the autumn - we are completely virtual at present.

[Ausmumof3]

40 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think we need to take steps forward. For example, colleges might want to keep large lectures online, but I don’t see why a class with fewer than 20 kids can’t run in person. Or why labs can’t be in person (require gloves and require kids to wipe down equipment as they exit). So maybe the entire orchestra can’t play, but I have lost my voice trying  to tell them to create small chamber groups, charge differently, and use the outside space (string players can mask and weather here is great year round) to do some group playing. We won’t be able to go from zero to hundred, but with vaccines and masks, we can go to 20, and then 40, and eventually as close to 100 as we can. People think they can sit and all of a sudden a day will come when they can jump back to total normalcy. We need to slowly walk there and we need to start walking now. 

Is it a little soon though?  From the graph for US it looks like numbers now although falling are still around the level of the July peak?  I don’t know what vaccination rates are like yet but they need to be 60pc or so for herd immunity, from what I understand.  

[Roadrunner]

21 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Is it a little soon though?  From the graph for US it looks like numbers now although falling are still around the level of the July peak?  I don’t know what vaccination rates are like yet but they need to be 60pc or so for herd immunity, from what I understand.  

It’s very location dependent. US is huge. We have fewer than 250 active cases for a population over 450k in the county. So I don’t think it’s too soon here. It might be in some areas. Each state is like a country in Europe. 

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

I think we need to take steps forward. For example, colleges might want to keep large lectures online, but I don’t see why a class with fewer than 20 kids can’t run in person. Or why labs can’t be in person (require gloves and require kids to wipe down equipment as they exit). So maybe the entire orchestra can’t play, but I have lost my voice trying  to tell them to create small chamber groups, charge differently, and use the outside space (string players can mask and weather here is great year round) to do some group playing. We won’t be able to go from zero to hundred, but with vaccines and masks, we can go to 20, and then 40, and eventually as close to 100 as we can. People think they can sit and all of a sudden a day will come when they can jump back to total normalcy. We need to slowly walk there and we need to start walking now. 

My daughter's college has been very reasonable. They have had choir all year. They practiced outside with masks until the weather got nasty. They have done some online stuff, but mostly in person. They practiced in a church completely spread out. No reason why orchestras should not be playing.  They did really well until some athletes had a party at Halloween, then there was a small breakout, so they went virtual after Thanksgiving though didn't close dorms. They started online except for labs and dance classes, etc but are back to in person.  They have done quite well, and I am very pleased.

https://fb.watch/42qi30wGeb/

[melmichigan]

Our school district went back the third week in January, minus about 23% that opted to stay virtual.  This week they recorded the highest covid case count since they had to start reporting to the public back in October.  I'm not sure how that bodes for the local CC, that has remained virtual.

[Roadrunner]

14 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My daughter's college has been very reasonable. They have had choir all year. They practiced outside with masks until the weather got nasty. They have done some online stuff, but mostly in person. They practiced in a church completely spread out. No reason why orchestras should not be playing.  They did really well until some athletes had a party at Halloween, then there was a small breakout, so they went virtual after Thanksgiving though didn't close dorms. They started online except for labs and dance classes, etc but are back to in person.  They have done quite well, and I am very pleased.

https://fb.watch/42qi30wGeb/

We have been sitting home since last March 

[TexasProud]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

We have been sitting home since last March 

I'm sorry.  I think that Texas has been too free, but that is not good either.  There can be common sense in between.  What you propose is pretty much the way the schools have been handling orchestra here. I've seen videos of the concerts and special events. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by TexasProud

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Roadrunner said:

It’s very location dependent. US is huge. We have fewer than 250 active cases for a population over 450k in the county. So I don’t think it’s too soon here. It might be in some areas. Each state is like a country in Europe. 

Yes that makes sense.  There’s so much variation in the responses. 
 

I mean we all lock down for one case down here but I think we’re going for a different goal that doesn’t make sense in the US.

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I mean we all lock down for one case down here but I think we’re going for a different goal that doesn’t make sense in the US.

I think it might have made sense in the US if done initially at a federal level, maybe? I actually think it would have been much less disruptive to do sharp short shutdowns, and I think the US probably DOES have enough controls on its borders to be able to do that, since most people do come in by plane. (That's not the case in Europe.) 

But state-by-state, without any coherence, it's a losing proposition. 

[Roadrunner]

16 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think it might have made sense in the US if done initially at a federal level, maybe? I actually think it would have been much less disruptive to do sharp short shutdowns, and I think the US probably DOES have enough controls on its borders to be able to do that, since most people do come in by plane. (That's not the case in Europe.) 

But state-by-state, without any coherence, it's a losing proposition. 

That would have been ideal when it all started, but that ship has now long sailed. 😞 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

That would have been ideal when it all started, but that ship has now long sailed. 😞 

Oh, absolutely. I don't think we can even see it over the horizon anymore 😂

[frogger]

4 hours ago, kokotg said:

It's very hard to have a nationwide conversation about schools because people's regional experiences are SO DIFFERENT right now. I think it's hard for people in places like CA to conceive of what's been going on in other parts of the country. I WORRY about my husband in his school district that's taking some precautions (though certainly not nearly all of the ones the CDC recommends), but I'm HORRIFIED by how teachers are being treated in other districts very near by. Which maybe is why I won't shut up about it. It's criminal. And I'm not talking about tiny rural counties, but large exurban districts with tens of thousands of students. 

The problem with not prioritizing teachers in places that have remained online, though, is that everyone wants those schools to reopen F2F and vaccinating teachers is how you get there.

Yes, the disparity makes it hard to have actual conversations. One person could be saying we need to do more and another could be saying move forward and start easing regulations and they could actually be asking for a similar scenario. That is why it is hard to have this conversation. It is hard to not frame it within our personal circumstances.

[kbutton]

3 hours ago, TCB said:

I agree that we should be finding ways to use what we know to do more of the things we want to do. The problem in my area, though, is that the mindset of many here is not to compromise. They want everything to be exactly as normal and won’t make any concessions to the virus. So those who value any caution at all have to stay away. There are many things going on as normal around me, however there are a number of things completely canceled because of the pushback against any precautions at all.

Our governor won't let it get too free-for-all, but with things like church, where the state put no limitations, it's the wild west.

Our church is taking precautions while simultaneously undoing them--walking in with masks, then taking them off, including for singing. 

It really grates on me that they say facemasks are required for all services. 

YLE has a list of reasons why it's not enough for people who want to mask to do so while everyone else doesn't and then goes about their business. It was in response to the Texas order.

She also has a graphic with scenarios for small, personal contact with vax, no vax, mask, no mask, etc. that might be handy.

https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/were-in-a-weird-pandemic-phase?fbclid=IwAR1_8oNEQ-l7p1RdjiXDBpv8z5yb0r0H9RtxDamWZEAioFtnffa-2NovZXY

[HSmomof2]

I heard a ‘friend of a friend’ story today that was not great vaccine news. A mother (50’s) and daughter (20’s) hadn’t seen each other for a long time. The mother is a nurse and is fully vaccinated (had 2nd shot in early February). Mother visited daughter last Friday. For work, mother still has to be regularly tested. Mother tested positive on Saturday. Mother had no symptoms and is still not sick. However, daughter started showing symptoms on Monday, tested positive on Tuesday and has been quite sick all week. So, it appears to be a case of an asymptomatic vaccinated person spreading Covid to an unvaccinated person, which is a bummer......hoping this is a rare, one-off....though as more and more are vaccinated, it should be less of a problem. But definitely shows it’s too early to be giving up masks, distancing, etc. with so many not vaccinated yet. 

[Roadrunner]

3 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Last semester the university where I  work had lectures online and tutorials in person: masked and spread out in big venues. There were no recorded cases of transmission in a class. I can see that system being back in place in the autumn - we are completely virtual at present.

Ours just published the fall schedule. Absolutely entire thing is online. There is no reason for it. I am livid. 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think it might have made sense in the US if done initially at a federal level, maybe? I actually think it would have been much less disruptive to do sharp short shutdowns, and I think the US probably DOES have enough controls on its borders to be able to do that, since most people do come in by plane. (That's not the case in Europe.) 

But state-by-state, without any coherence, it's a losing proposition. 

Um Texas does NOT have  controls on its border to do this. Some of our problems with COVID-19 at the border towns have been people walking across the border. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, HSmomof2 said:

I heard a ‘friend of a friend’ story today that was not great vaccine news. A mother (50’s) and daughter (20’s) hadn’t seen each other for a long time. The mother is a nurse and is fully vaccinated (had 2nd shot in early February). Mother visited daughter last Friday. For work, mother still has to be regularly tested. Mother tested positive on Saturday. Mother had no symptoms and is still not sick. However, daughter started showing symptoms on Monday, tested positive on Tuesday and has been quite sick all week. So, it appears to be a case of an asymptomatic vaccinated person spreading Covid to an unvaccinated person, which is a bummer......hoping this is a rare, one-off....though as more and more are vaccinated, it should be less of a problem. But definitely shows it’s too early to be giving up masks, distancing, etc. with so many not vaccinated yet. 

I don’t think it’s a one off exactly.  We were talking on the other thread and it looks like astra Zeneca reduces transmission possibility by a bit over 60pc.  So while it will slow down spread it’s not 100pc.  The Pfizer and Moderna may be better but we don’t have data yet.

[HSmomof2]

21 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

I don’t think it’s a one off exactly.  We were talking on the other thread and it looks like astra Zeneca reduces transmission possibility by a bit over 60pc.  So while it will slow down spread it’s not 100pc.  The Pfizer and Moderna may be better but we don’t have data yet.

True.....and it’s possible it hadn’t been long enough since the mother got her second vaccine which was why she tested positive ....that part of the story was a little more vague....and it was third/fourth hand info. 

[RootAnn]

1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

Um Texas does NOT have  controls on its border to do this. Some of our problems with COVID-19 at the border towns have been people walking across the border. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/after-border-patrol-release-asylum-seekers-test-positive-covid-brownsville-n1259282

And border control agencies are not testing people before letting them go on their way. When local places test them, the locals are saying they have no authority to enforce quarantine protocols.

[Dmmetler]

I signed my senior up for a graduation and senior prom in June at a venue that can either be outside, or, if it is rainy, open large windows so it is essentially in an open air pavilion, run by people who I know have been planning outdoor field trips/meetups with masks, etc. My parents, who have been vaccinated, will drive out, but can do so in one long day. Hopefully by then the rest of my immediate family will have been as well. I am hoping to also do some sort of outdoor open house where people can stop by and share well wishes, so we have some sort of party. 
 

I went back to teaching in person with precautions in August, except for a few weeks online after Thanksgiving and in January.  I did a hybrid winter recital, with some kids performing in person, with one parent present, and some performing via Zoom, with most of the audience on zoom. My small groups were recorded in advance and streamed on zoom. So far, I have had two students quarantine due to possible exposure at school, and one catch Covid from her mother. Fortunately, weather cooperated so I probably wasn’t exposed during her potentially contagious period (and I’m more than 6 feet away, everyone is masked and I am double masked with a face shield, I have two air purifiers running, etc).  I am tentatively planning my Spring performance outdoors. I did an ensemble in the fall outside, ending before it got too cold, and hope to offer some small groups this Summer. I also really hope I can have my teen ensemble in the Fall again, because by then the older kids, at least, will have been able to be vaccinated, and hopefully a vaccine will be approved for the younger teen set as well. I fully expect to keep masking while teaching indefinitely at least if I have symptoms, and stocking disposable masks for kids who come in with “allergies”. 
 

Our CC is partially in person, and my senior is taking one class, a Geology lab which can be done with windows open or outdoors, thus semester. The other classes are online. They are housing vaccination clinics on campus and have stated that they hope to be able to do them for students this summer, if not earlier with the hope of offering a full slate of on campus options. 
 

Now that weather is getting better, I am hoping for more masked outdoors meetups for social reasons. 
 

The high school here is doing their musical this week, with clear face masks, limited audience in person, and streaming online. Some theater groups are doing concert versions. We attended the local Shakespeare company's Romeo and Juliet, outside. It worked surprisingly well. 

[kokotg]

3 hours ago, frogger said:

Yes, the disparity makes it hard to have actual conversations. One person could be saying we need to do more and another could be saying move forward and start easing regulations and they could actually be asking for a similar scenario. That is why it is hard to have this conversation. It is hard to not frame it within our personal circumstances.

yeah, the way I put it to someone the other day was that it's one person saying, "I would just like for my kids to be able to go back to school a couple of times a week before the school year ends, wearing masks of course, as long as numbers keep staying low" and another saying, "well, my kids have been back in school full time with no masks since August, we've only shut down 4 times because of too many cases and quarantines, and only 2 teachers have quit and 3 have been hospitalized, so it's going great!"

Edited March 6, 2021 by kokotg

[ieta_cassiopeia]

12 hours ago, kand said:

U.K. teachers weren’t in the classroom for a big chunk of time, were they? That would make the numbers not apples to apples against essential workers who have been working the whole time.

Most UK secondary school teachers were in person for the entire autumn term of September-December (barring quarantines - the average student lost 10 days that term to COVID exposures/outbreaks, and some only managed 2 weeks of attendance all term), and about 2/3 of them for one day in January - the first day of term, at a time when the UK's COVID stats were going so well that the schools were ordered shut in time for the second day of regular term. The other 1/3 were at schools which had scheduled a teacher training day for that day (UK state schools usually have 5 in a year, given the difficulties in scheduling short training sessions otherwise) and thus had no pupils... ....but that day was in any case not included in the ONS statistic.

Some teachers have been in-person the whole time, because students with disabilities serious enough to get official documentation from school, children in contact with the social care system, students in residential or special schools of any kind, and the children of essential workers have been deemed entitled to in-person schooling throughout. Those without the ability to access online learning (and a broader definition of "essential workers") were added in January, but for most of the year, that's required a few % of the teachers to work all the hours in-person they usually would.

So... ...not apples-to-apples, but not quite as apples-to-oranges as it may look at first glance.

Everyone goes back to school at some point between last week and mid-April (depending on the part of the UK the school is in).

Edited March 6, 2021 by ieta_cassiopeia

[Wheres Toto]

I'm worried that mask mandates are going to get cancelled too soon and things are going to get bad again.  

I'm worried about the variant that appears to hit children harder.  

I'm worried that even when kids can get vaccinated, I'm sure a large percentage of the students I have won't vaccinate anyway.  

[Laura Corin]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-doctor-calls-to-persuade-covid-vaccine-refuseniks-7p63q3lw0

 

 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

This is brilliant. It proves that anti-vaccination attitudes don't have to be permanent or immutable, and that one good, caring, knowledgeable and honest one-to-one conversation can resolve most vaccine hesitators' reservations.

[kokotg]

My Dad works at a nursing home, and it sounds like they did a LOT of work to combat skepticism in the staff--lots of watching videos and having people give presentations on safety and the science behind the vaccines. I don't know how well it worked overall, but my Dad is completely on board (of course, working at a nursing home that had a really bad outbreak in December probably helped overcome any residual vaccine hesitancy he might have had as well). But, yeah, listening to people's concerns and explaining/educating about the vaccines works!

[Kassia]

nm - should have been in personal covid vaccine thread

Edited March 8, 2021 by Kassia

[mommyoffive]

CDC releases highly anticipated guidance for people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 - CNN

 

The new CDC guidance says fully vaccinated people can:

• Visit other vaccinated people indoors without masks or physical distancing

• Visit indoors with unvaccinated people from a single household without masks or physical distancing, if the unvaccinated people are at low risk for severe disease.
• • Skip quarantine and testing if exposed to someone who has Covid-19 but are asymptomatic, but should monitor for symptoms for 14 days
  However, people who are fully vaccinated still need to take precautions in many scenarios. The guidelines say fully vaccinated people must:
  • Wear a mask and keep good physical distance around the unvaccinated who are at increased risk for severe Covid-19, or if the unvaccinated person has a household member who is at higher risk
  • Wear masks and physically distance when visiting unvaccinated people who are from multiple households.
  In addition, fully vaccinated people should continue basic safety precautions, including: wearing a mask that fits well and keeping physical distance in public; avoiding medium- and large-sized crowds; avoiding poorly ventilated public spaces; washing hands frequently; and getting tested for Covid-19 if they feel sick.

The guidelines fully vaccinated people live in a non-health care congregate setting, such as a group home detention facility, they should quarantine for 14 days and get tested if exposed to someone with a suspected or confirmed Covid-19 case.

 

The guidelines say that the risk of infection in social activities like going to the gym or restaurant is lower for the fully vaccinated, however, people should still take precautions as transmission risk in these settings is higher and increases the more unvaccinated there are there.

The CDC travel recommendations have not changed for the unvaccinated. The guidelines still say that with high case numbers, the CDC recommends that you do not travel at this time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interim Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People | CDC

 

For the purposes of this guidance, people are considered fully vaccinated for COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after they have received the second dose in a 2-dose series (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), or ≥2 weeks after they have received a single-dose vaccine (Johnson and Johnson [J&J]/Janssen ).†

The following recommendations apply to non-healthcare settings.

Fully vaccinated people can:

Visit with other fully vaccinated people indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing

Visit with unvaccinated people from a single household who are at low risk for severe COVID-19 disease indoors without wearing masks or physical distancing

Refrain from quarantine and testing following a known exposure if asymptomatic

For now, fully vaccinated people should continue to:

Take precautions in public like wearing a well-fitted mask and physical distancing

Wear masks, practice physical distancing, and adhere to other prevention measures when visiting with unvaccinated people who are at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease or who have an unvaccinated household member who is at increased risk for severe COVID-19 disease

Wear masks, maintain physical distance, and practice other prevention measures when visiting with unvaccinated people from multiple households

Avoid medium- and large-sized in-person gatherings

Get tested if experiencing COVID-19 symptoms

Follow guidance issued by individual employers

Follow CDC and health department travel requirements and recommendations

Edited March 8, 2021 by mommyoffive

[mommyoffive]

Pfizer vaccine neutralizes Brazilian virus variant in new study | TheHill

[frogger]

Alaska opened it up to everyone 16+ today.

[Laura Corin]

Did you know that Johnson and Johnson is undertaking a two-shot trial too for the same vaccine?  I could imagine it being used as a two-shot in the end to increase effectiveness.  This is an announcement of the trial, but it's actually happening right now. The gap between shots is apparently two months.

https://www.jnj.com/johnson-johnson-initiates-second-global-phase-3-clinical-trial-of-its-janssen-covid-19-vaccine-candidate

[mommyoffive]

8 hours ago, frogger said:

Alaska opened it up to everyone 16+ today.

That is awesome!

[Not_a_Number]

10 hours ago, frogger said:

Alaska opened it up to everyone 16+ today.

Wow!! Awesome.

[frogger]

3 hours ago, mommyoffive said:

That is awesome!

Part of it was that people in the tiers that were open were letting appointments go unfulfilled so even though not everyone who is in previous tiers has been vaccinated they have all had a chance to sign up. If you want to move quick, let people who are ready and willing get'er done is the thought process. 

[mommyoffive]

1 minute ago, frogger said:

Part of it was that people in the tiers that were open were letting appointments go unfulfilled so even though not everyone who is in previous tiers has been vaccinated they have all had a chance to sign up. If you want to move quick, let people who are ready and willing get'er done is the thought process. 

I hope that happens here soon so I can get mine.    I just want shots in arms whoever is ready to do it!

[AbcdeDooDah]

On 3/5/2021 at 10:16 AM, Roadrunner said:

Grocery store check out people are dealing with thousands and thousands of different customers day in and out including children who come super close to them during checkout. 
And unlike other privileged employees who have been sitting home since March (as in CA) and throwing demands, grocery employees (many with preexisting conditions) have been on their feet and in person working every single day of this pandemic. They also have families and I bet many are medically vulnerable.

I am done with this teacher adoration. 

My dd works at a grocery store and people have actually shared their positive test results as she's bagging their groceries, as in, "I tested positive 3 days ago."

More than once.