The Vaccine Thread

[Laura Corin]

3 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

I think they should offer a booster shot for J&J vaccine if they want people to take it. I did an informal survey of friends/relatives and nobody is willing to take a chance on J&J. However most say if they were offered a booster with Moderna or Pfizer, they would consider it.  

There's a trial of Pfizer then AstraZeneca or vice versa happening in the UK. It will be interesting to see the results. 

[Starr]

40 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Quick question: our allergist suggested an antihistamine prior to getting the vaccine, because history of allergies here.  Has anyone heard any negatives about that?  And when can we give Advil or Tylenol after the shot?

My directions were to take Tylenol if needed and follow doctors orders on prescribed medications. I didn’t need Tylenol until the chills started and temperature went up. I used ice on my sore arm. 

[Laura Corin]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/28/pfizer-vaccine-less-effective-obesity-study?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[kokotg]

Our governor in Georgia has announced that "to avoid confusion" we're no longer following the CDC guidelines about the vaccine rollout at all. He first opened it up to 1a and added in everyone over 65, their caregivers (with all the abuses of that loose designation that you'd expect), and first responders. Now he's adding in K-12 teachers (but not higher ed or other critical workers), adults with intellectual disabilities, and parents of children with "complex medical conditions" (no guidance yet about what that means). So some people who should be 1b but not all plus a small subset of what I think would be 1c? I'm so, so frustrated that he's ignoring the CDC guidelines in favor of this completely non-transparent process that seems to be based largely on which groups have lobbied his office hard enough. Not that any of these groups are unworthy of vaccines, but I hate that it's up the whims of each state, and in this case at least there's no clear explanation about why he thinks he knows more than the people at the CDC. We just drove to Alabama yesterday to get my (teacher) husband his shot. The announcement about expanding to teachers came after we made the appointment, but the earliest he'd be able to get an appointment under that would be more than a week later anyway. Right now I'm fully expecting to need to travel out of state myself when my turn comes; otherwise I might be waiting in line behind everyone who's left handed or who was born on a Wednesday or whatever other randomness they come up with next. One of the hardest things about the pandemic for me has been how everything is so uncertain and it's impossible to make plans...and living in a state where the impossible to predict vaccine phases are announced every few weeks in press conferences as if I'm waiting to find out if my favorite TV show is getting renewed or not is NOT HELPING. /rant

[Roadrunner]

23 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/28/pfizer-vaccine-less-effective-obesity-study?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

That’s not good news. 


 

[Spryte]

On 2/26/2021 at 8:59 PM, Spryte said:

I’m so excited!  I just got my 80 yr old mom scheduled for her first shot on Sunday.  Wheeee!

For those of you who’ve had it, or accompanied someone having it, did everyone stay distanced and did it feel comfortable re: masking, etc?  I’m a little nervous since I’m immune compromised.  Mostly, I’m ecstatic that one of us is finally, finally getting it, but a tad bit nervous, too.  Any tips?

Quoting myself with an update: no shot. We got to the parking lot, and she had terrible GI issues and had to go home.  I think it’s an anxiety thing.

I’m so sad, and disappointed.  Hopefully someone else gets that shot.  

There are no appointments to reschedule her, so we are back to the waiting.  I could cry.

[Laura Corin]

15 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Quoting myself with an update: no shot. We got to the parking lot, and she had terrible GI issues and had to go home.  I think it’s an anxiety thing.

I’m so sad, and disappointed.  Hopefully someone else gets that shot.  

There are no appointments to reschedule her, so we are back to the waiting.  I could cry.

I'm so sorry,  Spryte. I thought you had finally had some luck.

[Drama Llama]

16 minutes ago, Spryte said:

Quoting myself with an update: no shot. We got to the parking lot, and she had terrible GI issues and had to go home.  I think it’s an anxiety thing.

I’m so sad, and disappointed.  Hopefully someone else gets that shot.  

There are no appointments to reschedule her, so we are back to the waiting.  I could cry.

I am so sorry.  I hope you get another chance soon. 

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, Spryte said:

Quoting myself with an update: no shot. We got to the parking lot, and she had terrible GI issues and had to go home.  I think it’s an anxiety thing.

I’m so sad, and disappointed.  Hopefully someone else gets that shot.  

There are no appointments to reschedule her, so we are back to the waiting.  I could cry.

Oh no.  I am sorry.  

[Kassia]

I'm sorry, @Spryte  That is really upsetting.  😞

[Spryte]

Thanks, all.  I’m trying to put on a supportive happy face for her, but it’s really a bummer.

We will try again as soon as we can get another appointment.  I’ll call this one a practice run.

I do think I will try harder for a drive up location for her, and that will help her anxiety.  

 

 

[ktgrok]

On 2/27/2021 at 3:09 PM, Kassia said:

Great news about your mom!  

So you wouldn't feel comfortable going in her home once she's fully vaccinated?  I'm asking because I'm really confused about risks in that case - my MIL is fully (as of last week) and I don't know what the next step is as far as seeing her if we are not vaccinated.  One benefit before this was having the best excuse not to see her!  

Our compromise when we saw my parents yesterday for the first time since this started was we masked indoors, but not outdoors unless right up against each other. So masked when reading my DD3 a book in her lap but not while we chatted spread out on the patio.  When we are all vaccinated (right now it is just my parents) we will drop the masks is my assumption. 

[Corraleno]

The current CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report discusses 5 cases in a Kentucky nursing home where residents were reinfected in October after having had asymptomatic (3) or very mild (2) infections in July. All five had multiple negative PCR tests between outbreaks, so they believe these were all reinfections. The second infection was more severe in all five patients, and one died. 😞 

[Laura Corin]

8 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The current CDC Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report discusses 5 cases in a Kentucky nursing home where residents were reinfected in October after having had asymptomatic (3) or very mild (2) infections in July. All five had multiple negative PCR tests between outbreaks, so they believe these were all reinfections. The second infection was more severe in all five patients, and one died. 😞 

It looks as if they don't have an idea of variants, which  is a shame.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Laura Corin

[Laura Corin]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/single-covid-vaccine-reduces-risk-hospital-zcm6srrdh

 

[Ausmumof3]

4 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/single-covid-vaccine-reduces-risk-hospital-zcm6srrdh

 

Yay!  Astra Zeneca is what many here will get so very glad to hear it works.

[Laura Corin]

20 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yay!  Astra Zeneca is what many here will get so very glad to hear it works.

I'm not sure which of those two I'll get.  I'm not bothered.

[wathe]

4 hours ago, kand said:

This was ringing a bell for me of having read about this in the past and them having discovered it wasn’t a matter of the immune response in obese people, it’s that the standard needle length isn’t going deep enough to go into muscle instead of fat. I did a quick search and found this study verifying that: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/3/e508

I am thinking it’s likely the same needle size is used for everyone at these vaccine clinics? Though I don’t know. 

That’s so sad! I’m sorry. I hope you can get another soon and it goes much better. 

Same needle for everyone at the clinics I've worked.

ETA: weight/BMI are not documented either.

Edited March 1, 2021 by wathe

[1234]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/02/merck-johnson-and-johnson-covid-vaccine-partnership/

Didn’t know if this has been mentioned but looks like Merck will help with J&J vaccine production. 

[mommyoffive]

Long-term COVID-19 side effects could go away after first vaccine, doctors say (wpxi.com)

 

That would really be great for people. 

[JennyD]

2 hours ago, kand said:

The bottom line in it, is that vaccine side effects usually show up very quickly, and even in the cases of vaccines that have caused a delayed reaction, that reaction happened on the time scale of weeks later. I think 8 weeks is the longest.

I heard an interview with the vaccine scientist Paul Offit in which he said that same thing -- side effects show up in the first 6 weeks, max.  I was surprised to hear that, but as I've learned more about how vaccines actually work in the body it makes sense.  (He did note that side effects that appear quickly can of course have long-lasting consequences.)

 

 

[Laura Corin]

Protection with Pfizer BioNtech or Oxford AstraZeneca

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56267473

Edited March 3, 2021 by Laura Corin

[ktgrok]

I know the vaccines are questionable against south african variant, how are they against UK strain, do we know?

[Laura Corin]

11 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

I know the vaccines are questionable against south african variant, how are they against UK strain,

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55659820

[ktgrok]

26 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55659820

thank you!

[JennyD]

I am increasingly worried about the seeming lack of urgency in testing these vaccines in children.  The most optimistic timeline seems to be availability for 12+ by early fall, then under 12 in early 2022.

If every US adult who wants a vaccine can get one by May or June, however, I have to imagine that any vestigial mitigation efforts are finished by summertime.  So presumably the virus just runs rampant in children for another nine months while we wait for these vaccines to be tested?  It seems implausible that elementary school-aged children are going to be masking and distancing while the adult population rushes back to karaoke bars.

 I realize that children rarely get seriously ill from this virus, but I am really not comfortable just blowing this off as 'just another virus' for my elementary schooler quite yet.  I am optimistic that the vaccines will reduce transmission enough that those of us who have been vaccinated will be able to safely resume some outside activities come fall without worrying too much about bringing the virus home to DS10, but nothing is going to look even vaguely like 'normal' until all 5 of us have been vaccinated.

I keep reading that the standard practice is to test one age group, then drop down to test a younger group, and so on.  That seems like a good and ethical plan IF we were not in the middle of a pandemic.   As it stands, a large percentage of children is almost certainly going to contract the virus between summer 2021 and early 2022.  So, I don't know, maybe some out-of-the-box thinking here might be in order?  

 

[Drama Llama]

5 minutes ago, JennyD said:

I am increasingly worried about the seeming lack of urgency in testing these vaccines in children.  The most optimistic timeline seems to be availability for 12+ by early fall, then under 12 in early 2022.

If every US adult who wants a vaccine can get one by May or June, however, I have to imagine that any vestigial mitigation efforts are finished by summertime.  So presumably the virus just runs rampant in children for another nine months while we wait for these vaccines to be tested?  It seems implausible that elementary school-aged children are going to be masking and distancing while the adult population rushes back to karaoke bars.

 I realize that children rarely get seriously ill from this virus, but I am really not comfortable just blowing this off as 'just another virus' for my elementary schooler quite yet.  I am optimistic that the vaccines will reduce transmission enough that those of us who have been vaccinated will be able to safely resume some outside activities come fall without worrying too much about bringing the virus home to DS10, but nothing is going to look even vaguely like 'normal' until all 5 of us have been vaccinated.

I keep reading that the standard practice is to test one age group, then drop down to test a younger group, and so on.  That seems like a good and ethical plan IF we were not in the middle of a pandemic.   As it stands, a large percentage of children is almost certainly going to contract the virus between summer 2021 and early 2022.  So, I don't know, maybe some out-of-the-box thinking here might be in order?  

 

I've also read something, not sure if it's a valid concern, that says that if the virus is primarily spreading in children, it's likely that any new variants that spread widely will be those that spread more easily in children.  That's a scary thought.  

[Gobblygook]

14 minutes ago, JennyD said:

I realize that children rarely get seriously ill from this virus, but I am really not comfortable just blowing this off as 'just another virus' for my elementary schooler quite yet.  I am optimistic that the vaccines will reduce transmission enough that those of us who have been vaccinated will be able to safely resume some outside activities come fall without worrying too much about bringing the virus home to DS10, but nothing is going to look even vaguely like 'normal' until all 5 of us have been vaccinated.

Agreed. I have an 8 year old child who is very high risk for Covid complications due to medical issues. We’re able to get his older brother (16) vaccinated as well as ourselves, but neither he nor his middle siblings are able to get vaccinated, obviously. The child in question is being homeschooled this year, but he would really be better served in school because of his profound disability. I have a feeling it won’t be safe to send him back next year, either. :( 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

3 hours ago, JennyD said:

I keep reading that the standard practice is to test one age group, then drop down to test a younger group, and so on.  That seems like a good and ethical plan IF we were not in the middle of a pandemic.   As it stands, a large percentage of children is almost certainly going to contract the virus between summer 2021 and early 2022.  So, I don't know, maybe some out-of-the-box thinking here might be in order?  

 

On the other hand, if a vaccine regime that works and is safe for adults proves to either be ineffective, or unsafe, for children, it's an even bigger problem to give it to children in the middle of a pandemic than otherwise.

The testing is necessary, even if the slow pace is frustrating. (Though there's also the point that a lot of places may well have a vaccine with approval for children before all the adults in those places that want vaccine have received it. Having a pediatric vaccine approved today is only going to change things if enough vaccine exists in an area for children to get doses in the first place).

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, ieta_cassiopeia said:

On the other hand, if a vaccine regime that works and is safe for adults proves to either be ineffective, or unsafe, for children, it's an even bigger problem to give it to children in the middle of a pandemic than otherwise.

The testing is necessary, even if the slow pace is frustrating. (Though there's also the point that a lot of places may well have a vaccine with approval for children before all the adults in those places that want vaccine have received it. Having a pediatric vaccine approved today is only going to change things if enough vaccine exists in an area for children to get doses in the first place).

I think she meant more that we could be testing on various age groups at once at this point. 

[Laura Corin]

BBC News - Covid-19: New vaccines for variants to be fast-tracked
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56274293

[vonfirmath]

15 hours ago, JennyD said:

I keep reading that the standard practice is to test one age group, then drop down to test a younger group, and so on.  That seems like a good and ethical plan IF we were not in the middle of a pandemic.   As it stands, a large percentage of children is almost certainly going to contract the virus between summer 2021 and early 2022.  So, I don't know, maybe some out-of-the-box thinking here might be in order?  

 

PArt of the problem is getting parents to allow their children to be part of testing group. They had problems getting the 12-17 age group to sign up. It will be even harder for the younger group. I thought about signing up my 13 year old (he didn't want to do it). I'm uninterested in signing up my 9 year old.

Edited March 4, 2021 by vonfirmath

[JennyD]

12 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I think she meant more that we could be testing on various age groups at once at this point. 

Yes.  Or at least discussing the possibility.  Or, if that's really not scientifically responsible, maybe figuring out an actual public health strategy for children in the coming months.  Because in the United States, I think we are essentially going to be looking at uncontrolled spread among children in between the time when every adult who wants a vaccine can get one (i.e. summer 2021) and the time when vaccines are available for children.   If the virus is truly not dangerous to children, maybe this isn't a big deal, in which case, there will be minimal demand for a vaccine anyway.  

I would just  like for us once in the history of this crisis to actually get ahead of an obvious and looming problem, you know?

1 hour ago, vonfirmath said:

PArt of the problem is getting parents to allow their children to be part of testing group. They had problems getting the 12-17 age group to sign up. It will be even harder for the younger group. I thought about signing up my 13 year old (he didn't want to do it). I'm uninterested in signing up my 9 year old.

Yes, i read that Moderna had trouble recruiting for its adolescent study.   I just signed up my 10yo for a child study planned here -- I really hope he gets picked to participate.

Edited March 4, 2021 by JennyD

[Jaybee]

My 17yo does not want the vaccine. He thinks he is invincible. Since he was exposed a couple of times and didn't get it (as far as we know), he "knows" he won't get it. Because he will be 18 soon, we don't feel comfortable forcing the issue, and we won't. But it is concerning. He has a hidden underlying condition that could make things worse if he gets it, and he knows that. It is possible (probable) that he has listened too much to the popular local idea that it's NBD, etc. Thankfully, the others in our present household will be glad to get it when their groups come up.

[Dmmetler]

Part of that, though, was that the study sites were very geographically limited. My teen would have signed up, happily, had there been a single site close enough to not require an overnight stay and a long drive. And I am in a city with a top pediatric research hospital which has been a pioneer in using mRNA cancer treatments, so we definitely have the facilities locally to do a branch of such a study. 

[Shoeless]

Moderna was able to fill all the slots for it's adolescent study group. I had considered signing my 12 year old up for it when it was open, but it sounded like it was going to involve a lot of blood draws to check antibody levels, and he would have freaked out about that. 

I could have sworn I read that another vax maker just started enrolling for kids under 12, but I can't find the article now. I'll look later on. 

[SKL]

My state is opening the vax priorities to pregnant women.

This concerns me.  Nobody knows the effects on developing humans.  Well, I guess it's not my issue, but does anyone else find this concerning?

[JennyD]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

does anyone else find this concerning?

No.  I am delighted that my state is also prioritizing pregnant women (and those in their households).   The risks associated with contracting Covid while pregnant seem to be much higher than any as-yet theoretical risk of the vaccine.  

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, SKL said:

My state is opening the vax priorities to pregnant women.

This concerns me.  Nobody knows the effects on developing humans.  Well, I guess it's not my issue, but does anyone else find this concerning?

I've made the decision to have my kid take an experimental med.  We didn't know the effect the medication would have on his developing body.  But we did know the effect his disease was having, and so we decided to take a gamble.

I see this vaccine in the same way.  We have lots of reasons to believe that the vaccine will be safe, based on other vaccines, and on the way mRNA works in people's bodies.  But the truth is that we don't really know.  However, we do know the impact that covid is having on pregnant women, and we do know that it's leading to outcomes like prenatal birth, prenatal oxygen deprivation, and maternal/child death.  The chances that the impact of the vaccine will be worse than are are very very low.  If I was pregnant, I would take the gamble, and I'd be glad that the FDA and state governments were giving me the option to make that choice for my own child and my own body.  

[Roadrunner]

I think we need an emergency authorization for at risk children.

I am comfortable letting my healthy kids encounter the virus. 
 

I think we are going to end up having to have a booster every year. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

I am comfortable letting my healthy kids encounter the virus. 

I wish I felt that way. What I feel is that we have no clue what the long term outcomes for kids are. It's too new a virus. 

[wendyroo]

10 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Part of that, though, was that the study sites were very geographically limited. My teen would have signed up, happily, had there been a single site close enough to not require an overnight stay and a long drive. And I am in a city with a top pediatric research hospital which has been a pioneer in using mRNA cancer treatments, so we definitely have the facilities locally to do a branch of such a study. 

Same issue here. My oldest will be 12 in a few weeks, and I wish I could give him the choice of participating in a research study. I'm not sure what he would choose - he doesn't like shots and blood draws, but that might actually make it feel like a bigger sacrifice and therefore a greater contribution to the effort. But at this point we don't have that option because when last I looked there were no testing facilities within a 2-3 hour drive.

[ktgrok]

Florida now has pharmacies and Walmart giving the vaccine to all preK-12 teachers regardless of age. The state run sites are not, they are basing it on age but the private places doing it decided to prioritize teachers. My sister got vaccinated! I'm so glad, she has asthma as does one of her kids. (she's a principal of a highschool)

 

[JennyD]

Israel may start vaccinating 12+ with Pfizer before the FDA approves it.

[easypeasy]

On 3/3/2021 at 4:23 PM, JennyD said:

 It seems implausible that elementary school-aged children are going to be masking and distancing while the adult population rushes back to karaoke bars.

 

I have never been to a karaoke bar and have always refused to play along when people had those karaoke machines at parties.

After a year of being at home....

I AM SO READY TO GO TO A KARAOKE BAR!! SIGN ME UP!

(agreeing about the testing on kids, though - hopefully that timeline can be moved up... but in the meantime, I'm gonna be at the karaoke bar in my imagination just waiting for the day to go in person and shock the socks off my entire family)

[Laura Corin]

FOMO and vaccine hesitancy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/fear-of-missing-out-boosting-global-acceptance-of-covid-jab?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

FOMO and vaccine hesitancy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/fear-of-missing-out-boosting-global-acceptance-of-covid-jab?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

ooh - perceived scarcity makes people more likely to buy something, (hello toilet paper) so maybe scarcity of vaccines will make people more likely to get one! I like that idea. 

[mommyoffive]

6 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

FOMO and vaccine hesitancy.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/05/fear-of-missing-out-boosting-global-acceptance-of-covid-jab?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Whatever makes people get the vaccine I am all for.  I hope there are more FOMO things for people to make them get it.   Like they don't have to quarantine if they are exposed.  Getting into indoor events.  Getting to travel to other countries or on a cruise.  Only thing it needs to not have a backlash against people who can't get the the vaccine, like kids. 

[Pam in CT]

re annual COVID boosters

13 hours ago, Roadrunner said:

I think we need an emergency authorization for at risk children.

I am comfortable letting my healthy kids encounter the virus. 
 

I think we are going to end up having to have a booster every year. 

Perhaps so. And: here's my arm.  If that is what it takes to haul ourselves out from this miasma, Dayenu.

There've been a lot of lessons in the last year. Among them: Americans have very, very, very little endurance.  There have been REAL hardships and loss, and I am not referring to that. More the kvetching about inconveniences: not being able to get preferred % of milk, or to go to the nail salon, or that the price of chicken increased, or constraints on preferred vacations.

So we might have to get an annual booster. Shrug.

 

re teachers' eligibility

13 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Florida now has pharmacies and Walmart giving the vaccine to all preK-12 teachers regardless of age. The state run sites are not, they are basing it on age but the private places doing it decided to prioritize teachers. My sister got vaccinated! I'm so glad, she has asthma as does one of her kids. (she's a principal of a highschool)

This is due to Biden's decision earlier this week to use the federal pharmacy partnership program -- which has its own vaccine allocation, parallel but separate from the states' allocation -- to prioritize teachers whether or not the states are doing so. 

Until this decision, the pharmacies have followed whatever the state guidelines were. But starting next week, ALL participating pharmacies in ALL states will provide vaccine to public and private K-12 teachers.

(The communication of this, and the implications, seems to have been uneven thus far. It didn't affect CT since teachers already were eligible under state guidelines. But in my area it affects MA and NY, and the word seems not to have gotten out very well. If you are or know a teacher in any state, spread the word: sign up now for Walgreen / Walmart / CVS portals -- you have to do each one separately, and start trolling for appointments as of midnight on Sunday.)

[ktgrok]

As much as I know the elderly need the vaccines, if we are going to keep teachers from quitting, this was the right call. Especially since kids won't be vaccinated for who knows how long. The grocery check out person will at least be in contact mostly with other adults, who are hopefuly going to be vaccinated in a few months. Teachers will be the ones left dealing with a totally unvaccinated population.