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The Vaccine Thread


JennyD

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3 minutes ago, wathe said:

I misunderstood, then.  That changes the risk assessment.

I still think that working face-to-face with unmasked members of the public, even while vaccinated, is likely risker that staying at home unvaccinated.  But the risk is less.  If masked properly (real medical mask) and wearing eye-protection, then probably acceptable level of risk.  But still riskier than staying at home unvaccinated.

 

No, I think I was wrong 😕 . Sorry. I was the one who misunderstood.

Edited by Not_a_Number
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42 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said:

So, we pod my in laws, which includes four high risk people.   One of those people, my GFIL would be particularly hard to stop seeing, but he is also not going to want to stop seeing the other high risk people, two of whom won't be vaccinated for quite a while.  

If DH goes back to work, the chances he'll be exposed are high.  Maybe higher than if he worked in a medical setting, just because he's got so much less control.  We can stop DH from seeing the high risk people directly, but stopping my kids from seeing them would be very very hard.  My GFIL is really struggling with grief, and my kids are huge comfort to him.  He eats better if they sit and eat with them, for example, and if we isolate from them, then my kids aren't seeing any adults who aren't completely messed up by grief.  That doesn't seem healthy.  So, I'm just trying to sort it out.  

I know that there are health care providers who take precautions to prevent them from passing the virus to their families.  I'm wondering what those precautions are, and how well they work. We took a lot of precautions when we were going back and forth to PICU, but the risk benefit calculations were different then.

It is a really difficult thing to negotiate and I can see that there are many things you need to take into account in your situation.

The biggest thing I do to protect my family is be as careful as I possibly can to not catch Covid. I am meticulous with PPE at work. I always wear my surgical mask the entire shift, except very short periods of eating and drinking. I haven’t eaten in the break room since March. I stand up at the counter in the galley kitchen area which is open on both sides to eat quickly, and I make sure there isn’t anyone else there. I change into and out of  my “covid” shoes before going in from my car, and leave them in my car. I shower as soon as I get home from work and wash all clothes straight away. I was more cautious at first, but it isn’t sustainable, as Wathe said, and I don’t think necessary.

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34 minutes ago, TCB said:

It is a really difficult thing to negotiate and I can see that there are many things you need to take into account in your situation.

The biggest thing I do to protect my family is be as careful as I possibly can to not catch Covid. I am meticulous with PPE at work. I always wear my surgical mask the entire shift, except very short periods of eating and drinking. I haven’t eaten in the break room since March. I stand up at the counter in the galley kitchen area which is open on both sides to eat quickly, and I make sure there isn’t anyone else there. I change into and out of  my “covid” shoes before going in from my car, and leave them in my car. I shower as soon as I get home from work and wash all clothes straight away. I was more cautious at first, but it isn’t sustainable, as Wathe said, and I don’t think necessary.

Agreed.  My mask is on my face at all times. Breakrooms are dangerous, IME.   I have adapted to working up to 10 hours without eating or drinking.  (If I must eat or drink, I use a room that's empty, and shut the door.  And scarf food and chug water as quickly as possible.  Not healthy, I know.)

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3 hours ago, TCB said:

It is a really difficult thing to negotiate and I can see that there are many things you need to take into account in your situation.

The biggest thing I do to protect my family is be as careful as I possibly can to not catch Covid. I am meticulous with PPE at work. I always wear my surgical mask the entire shift, except very short periods of eating and drinking. I haven’t eaten in the break room since March. I stand up at the counter in the galley kitchen area which is open on both sides to eat quickly, and I make sure there isn’t anyone else there. I change into and out of  my “covid” shoes before going in from my car, and leave them in my car. I shower as soon as I get home from work and wash all clothes straight away. I was more cautious at first, but it isn’t sustainable, as Wathe said, and I don’t think necessary.

This is very similar to what my husband, also a HCW does, but he is fortunate to be able to walk to work, so no car involved. When the weather was nice, he was eating outside, but most days now that is not very feasible. But he doesn’t eat in communal areas nor does he eat any of the donated food that is often sitting around, not so much because he is worried about the food itself, but just people gathered around it eating with masks off and touching communal things. He walks home on his meal break and picks up the food bag I prep and leave on our porch for him.

Edited by Frances
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5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

We could look this up, I'm sure 😄 . 

I've been reading about viruses with DD8 for all of last year. (Right now, our science work is a graphic novel about DNA!) So I'm suddenly quite well-informed on viruses. 

DD8 asked to study viruses back in November of 2019. Also, she asked to be a virus for Purim, in an ill-fated costume that shall never be worn 😉 . We were apparently ahead of our time... 

My then 8 year old's Science Fair project last January (January 2020) was a model of how the cell (animal) works.  Including going into great detail about DNA, RNA, and mRNA. So this year has definitely had a surreal quality.

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1 minute ago, vonfirmath said:

My then 8 year old's Science Fair project last January (January 2020) was a model of how the cell (animal) works.  Including going into great detail about DNA, RNA, and mRNA. So this year has definitely had a surreal quality.

Ooh, join the psychic cub, lol! 

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5 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

By the way, I've been paying attention to the Bloomberg vaccine map, and the US is doing better that almost anywhere else for vaccinating. Any idea what we did right here? Did we allow the vaccines earlier? Is there something else going on? 

I’m curious, too, because the US wasn’t the first to approve. The UK was a at least a week ahead of us. They are the same shade of green that the US is in their graphic. My guess is other countries were slower to approve combined with supply chain/logistical challenges in different parts of the world. Although Fedex is pretty much worldwide now. 

ETA the combination of not just delayed approval due to safety concerns—but the countries may not have gotten orders in as quickly as the US. While op warp speed didn’t fund biontech, they did commit way ahead of time to buy 100s of millions of doses.

 

Edited by popmom
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16 minutes ago, popmom said:

I’m curious, too, because the US wasn’t the first to approve. The UK was a at least a week ahead of us. They are the same shade of green that the US is in their graphic. My guess is other countries were slower to approve combined with supply chain/logistical challenges in different parts of the world. Although Fedex is pretty much worldwide now. 

ETA the combination of not just delayed approval due to safety concerns—but the countries may not have gotten orders in as quickly as the US. 

The UK is definitely ahead of us, though. The graph isn't great with the shadings. 

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22 minutes ago, Junie said:

I think it's so awesome that this town's mayor called in a Chick-fil-a manager when he saw that the Covid vaccine drive-thru wasn't working properly. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/31/us/chick-fil-a-drive-thru-covid-vaccine-trnd/index.html

Yes! I love it! Because we’ve all seen the memes about carpool, etc! 😂

I’d say privatize the whole operation. Let chick fil a and fedex bid the job. Who else? Oh, Amazon, of course. Heck—give each of them a contract! They’d straighten this out.

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1 minute ago, popmom said:

I’d say privatize the whole operation. Let chick fil a and fedex bid the job. Who else? Oh, Amazon, of course. Heck—give each of them a contract! They’d straighten this out.

I think large-scale logistics are honestly pretty hard. It takes experience not to screw it up. 

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14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think large-scale logistics are honestly pretty hard. It takes experience not to screw it up. 

🤔 Amazon and Fedex specialize in large scale logistics. Then bring in The Chick on the local level. 

Put The Chick people, the FedEx people, and the Amazon people in a room and let them figure it out. They WOULD figure it out. 🙂

Meanwhile, it seems that in my state, the powers that be decided to bring in the Burger King and Taco Bell people because it’s not going great here so far. 😉

Edited by popmom
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2 hours ago, popmom said:

I’m curious, too, because the US wasn’t the first to approve. The UK was a at least a week ahead of us. They are the same shade of green that the US is in their graphic. My guess is other countries were slower to approve combined with supply chain/logistical challenges in different parts of the world. Although Fedex is pretty much worldwide now. 

ETA the combination of not just delayed approval due to safety concerns—but the countries may not have gotten orders in as quickly as the US. While op warp speed didn’t fund biontech, they did commit way ahead of time to buy 100s of millions of doses.

 

The UK has vaccinated about 50 percent more people than the US by head of population. Almost one percent of the UK population was vaccinated on Saturday alone. It's the one thing we seem to have gotten organised, probably because the NHS structures were already in place. This graph is clearer than some news sources.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Eta this is a fun article 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/31/industralised-vaccine-behind-scenes-at-newcastle-covid-operation?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Edited by Laura Corin
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2 minutes ago, Laura Corin said:

The UK has vaccinated about 50 percent more people than the US by head of population. Almost one percent of the UK population was vaccinated on Saturday alone. It's the one thing we seem to have gotten organised, probably because the NHS structures were already in place. This graph is clearer than some news sources.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

That’s fantastic!

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11 minutes ago, popmom said:

Amazon and Fedex specialize in large scale logistics. Then bring in The Chick on the local level. 

Put The Chick people, the FedEx people, and the Amazon people in a room and let them figure it out. They WOULD figure it out. 🙂

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

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16 minutes ago, popmom said:

Put The Chick people, the FedEx people, and the Amazon people in a room and let them figure it out. They WOULD figure it out. 🙂

I wish Amazon would figure out its darn website first. That thing is a dinosaur. It's so annoying to navigate. Plus, half the things on there are a Chinese knockoff... 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

Are they having trouble delivering stuff to pharmacies? I haven't been paying careful attention. 

I remember seeing somewhere that places with independent pharmacies were doing better than places that just have Walgreens and CVS. 

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3 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

I wish I had faith that CVS and Walgreens could pull this off efficiently, but realistically, pharmacies aren’t known for being efficient. Accurate...yes. Efficient...no. Just look at their COVID testing. There’s definitely room for improvement there. So I do think some sort of collaboration would be helpful. 

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2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are they having trouble delivering stuff to pharmacies? I haven't been paying careful attention. 

I remember seeing somewhere that places with independent pharmacies were doing better than places that just have Walgreens and CVS. 

I meant that the local CVS and Walgreens would do a much better job than the local senior centers, the Parks and Recs departments and sports stadia trying to be efficient vaccine sites. The CVS's and Walgreens already have what it takes to do this job.

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Just now, popmom said:

I wish I had faith that CVS and Walgreens could pull this off efficiently, but realistically, pharmacies aren’t known for being efficient. Accurate...yes. Efficient...no. Just look at their COVID testing. There’s definitely room for improvement there. So I do think some sort of collaboration would be helpful. 

What would you like Chick-Fil-A to actually do here? I think it makes a lot of sense to help them figure out drive-throughs, since that's their expertise: they know where the weak points are. How are they supposed to help with pharmacies, though? 

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Just now, mathnerd said:

I meant that the local CVS and Walgreens would do a much better job than the local senior centers, the Parks and Recs departments and sports stadia trying to be efficient vaccine sites. The CVS's and Walgreens already have what it takes to do this job.

Did they already get some vaccines, though? I haven't been keeping track, to be honest. 

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10 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

CVS and Walgreens have the deep cold refrigeration needed by these vaccines?

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

What would you like Chick-Fil-A to actually do here? I think it makes a lot of sense to help them figure out drive-throughs, since that's their expertise: they know where the weak points are. How are they supposed to help with pharmacies, though? 

In the same way! Get people in and out. Just like they did in SC.

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Just now, popmom said:

In the same way! Get people in and out. Just like they did in SC.

Oh, I see. So manage the lines better? That probably wouldn't hurt. 

I think the thing that would make a lot of sense is actually centralizing it a bit more so that no one ever had to do paperwork in person and appointments could be found in obvious places, as opposed to scouring random collections of websites. I think places that already had easier ways to organize this wound up doing quite a lot better -- both the UK and Israel have centralized healthcare, for example, and I think that helped keep track of stuff. 

So, making a central database then having people with line expertise managing things would make sense, I think. 

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21 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

I meant that the local CVS and Walgreens would do a much better job than the local senior centers, the Parks and Recs departments and sports stadia trying to be efficient vaccine sites. The CVS's and Walgreens already have what it takes to do this job.

See I actually don’t think they will be any better. They haven’t been with testing. What do you mean they have what it takes to do the job? Who will fill my prescriptions if all the pharmacists are giving shots? Are they actively recruiting right now? Who knows? 

Edited by popmom
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Just now, popmom said:

See I actually don’t think they will be any better. They haven’t been with testing. What do you mean they have what it takes to do the job? Who will fill my prescriptions if all the pharmacists are giving shots. Are they actively recruiting right now? Who knows? 

Well, they have the storage and the medical knowledge... you kind of need that stuff. It's not like you could avoid using medical professionals for this. 

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13 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

I didn’t think pharmacies had the super cold storage.  I think that the health department here is bringing it each day from facilities that do? I could be wrong.

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Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

I didn’t think pharmacies had the super cold storage.  I think that the health department here is bringing it each day from facilities that do? I could be wrong.

Hmmm, interesting point. If that's the case, then I guess you don't need to run it out of pharmacies, except you do need people who can give shots. 

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Well, they have the storage and the medical knowledge... you kind of need that stuff. It's not like you could avoid using medical professionals for this. 

I’d rather have a nurse give my shot. I’d love to see a news story about all the ways CVS is strategizing and recruiting nurses to do this. It’s a lot to expect on top of continued testing—slow, inefficient testing to belabor the point.

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Just now, popmom said:

I’d rather have a nurse give my shot. I’d love to see a news story about all the ways CVS is strategizing and recruiting nurses to do this. It’s a lot to expect on top of continued testing—slow, inefficient testing to belabor the point.

Sure, nurses would be good. Nurses tend to have jobs, though. And right now, nurses are pretty busy. 

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Sure, nurses would be good. Nurses tend to have jobs, though. And right now, nurses are pretty busy. 

So who else do we have? I’m not sure what your point is. I’m mean it’s not hard to give a shot. So why are we not seeing training programs popping up. Couldn’t CVS develop something like that and actively recruit?

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Just now, popmom said:

Also pharmacists have jobs, too and are BUSY as ever lol

I do think there's an issue with a shortage of people who can vaccinate others right now. It's all very disjointed. If one could run fewer locations more smoothly, that would probably be more efficient. 

We should take a look at what Israel did 😄 . Of course, they had a lot more vaccine bought per population, too! 

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've never given one. So I have no clue how hard it is. I don't want Burger King employees giving me one, that I do know 😛 . 

I’ve given a ton.  It’s really not that hard.  But the actual give a shot part is fast.  You need people to do paperwork and a medical professional in case of a reaction.

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I've never given one. So I have no clue how hard it is. I don't want Burger King employees giving me one, that I do know 😛 . 

Hey—my grandfather gave shots in WW2. He had no medical experience whatsoever prior. If the Burger King employee goes through proper training, I’ve got no problem with it. I’ve given myself many, many subcutaneous injections. There’s a little more involved with an IM, but it’s not HARD.

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Just now, BaseballandHockey said:

I’ve given a ton.  It’s really not that hard.  But the actual give a shot part is fast.  You need people to do paperwork and a medical professional in case of a reaction.

Ah, good point -- there are allergic reactions and whatnot. 

And they probably do want to follow people who are vaccinated for a bit, to get safety data? I'm really not sure what exactly the hold ups are right now. Honestly, I think the biggest issue I've read about is just pure amounts -- we only have so much. 

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22 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

CVS and Walgreens have the deep cold refrigeration needed by these vaccines?

I think so. There are a lot of medication that require refrigeration and pharmacies would have them. I even got liquid nitrogen from one a long time ago! They also seem to have trained people giving flu and shingles shot (don’t know if they are nurses).

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1 minute ago, mathnerd said:

I think so. There are absolutely a lot of medication that require refrigeration and pharmacies would have them. I even got liquid nitrogen from one a long time ago!

But this is extra cold refrigeration, though. I remember there being concerns about it. 

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20 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

If the vaccines were delivered (by Amazon) to CVS pharmacies or Walgreens, they have the refrigeration needed and the employees with training to get the job done considering they already offer flu vaccines onsite. If city governments are struggling like this, then, it makes sense to get the right persons involved.

But as we’ve seen, states like WV that didn’t go with the federal government contract with Walgreens and CVS, and instead used small, local pharmacies vaccinated their long term care population much, much faster. What incentive did Walgreens and CVS really have to deliver quickly after they already had the contracts in hand? On the other hand, local pharmacies that already had relationships with these facilities and didn’t want to lose them had every incentive to get it done in a timely manner.
Several of the large chain pharmacies already treat their staff atrociously and put customers at risk for medication errors due to major understaffing in order to squeeze profits. I certainly don’t trust them to bring staffing to adequate levels to handle a rush of people wanting vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/health/pharmacists-medication-errors.html

Plus, the few times my husband and I have had to get shots at pharmacies because our employer didn’t offer them and we didn’t want to go to the doctor just for a shot, the process was anything but efficient. I’m fine with pharmacy chains being one part of the equation, especially for those who want that experience, but I can’t imagine them pulling off anything at the scale and level of organization and efficiency that my local non profit hospital did when they organized massive ongoing clinics (400+ shots per hour) for the two counties in which they operate. Their only real issue has been a lack of steady supply of vaccines.

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3 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

Are you high risk? Or what is Texas doing?

Texas is vaccinating 1a and 1b people (chronic health issues that are considered high risk in people age 16+, anyone over age 65).  I fall under 1b chronic health issues. 

Edited by MissLemon
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10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Texas is vaccinating 1a and 1b people (chronic health issues that are considered high risk in people age 16+, anyone over age 65).  I fall under 1b chronic health issues. 

I didn't realise the categories in some states were so broad. The UK has gone in the other direction - extremely narrow sequential categories,  and inviting people individually to come in. My 65 yo brother won't be called in for some weeks, but all nursing home residents have now been offered vaccination, as well as - I believe - most over eighties. 

Edited by Laura Corin
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13 minutes ago, Frances said:

But as we’ve seen, states like WV that didn’t go with the federal government contract with Walgreens and CVS, and instead used small, local pharmacies vaccinated their long term care population much, much faster. What incentive did Walgreens and CVS really have to deliver quickly after they already had the contracts in hand? On the other hand, local pharmacies that already had relationships with these facilities and didn’t want to lose them had every incentive to get it done in a timely manner.
Several of the large chain pharmacies already treat their staff atrociously and put customers at risk for medication errors due to major understaffing in order to squeeze profits. I certainly don’t trust them to bring staffing to adequate levels to handle a rush of people wanting vaccines.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/health/pharmacists-medication-errors.html

Plus, the few times my husband and I have had to get shots at pharmacies because our employer didn’t offer them and we didn’t want to go to the doctor just for a shot, the process was anything but efficient. I’m fine with pharmacy chains being one part of the equation, especially for those who want that experience, but I can’t imagine them pulling off anything at the scale and level of organization and efficiency that my local non profit hospital did when they organized massive ongoing clinics (400+ shots per hour) for the two counties in which they operate. Their only real issue has been a lack of steady supply of vaccines.

Exactly—You explained this so much better than me! 

Edited by popmom
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10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Texas is vaccinating 1a and 1b people (chronic health issues that are considered high risk in people age 16+, anyone over age 65).  I fall under 1b chronic health issues. 

I am calling tomorrow and talking to my concierge doctor tomorrow because in Alabama, high risk is supposed to be 1c.  Well the governor just expanded to the other people in 1c- 65+, and high risk workers but didn't mention high risk, chronically ill people and their caretakers.

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