What year to start K?

[MoyaPechal]

My daughter turns 5 in March. Normally we'd start K next year, but a ton of people in our area held their kids back from K this year because of distance learning (most kids haven't been in school at all since March). It's making me really nervous about college applications in the future. I graduated during a really competitive year (the year everyone switched to the common app) and while I did get into a good school, it was one of my safeties and my mother cried about me not getting in anywhere else. And if we do state schools to try to save money, it's already disproportionately harder to get into the best ones like UVA if you live in Northern Virginia. Part of me wants to either start K early and try to accelerate a tiny bit over the years so she graduates a year early and the other part wonders if I should wait an extra year before starting kindergarten. Am I overthinking this? I have anxiety issues and need a reality check.

We're going to homeschool for both religious and academic reasons. She can count to 25 and knows all the basic letter sounds but blending is really hit or miss. Usually she can't. Aside from being able to write her name, she's Kindergarten-ready according to our school district. We haven't done any formal academics aside from Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading once in a while because until recently I was planning to do a CM curriculum and they say no formal lessons until at least 6. 

[BookMamaLade]

As an anxiety sufferer, I understand the overthinking, but yes, I'd say you're overthinking it. There are far too many unknowns to plan in detail for something so many years down the road.  In general, if she is Kindergarten ready, 5 is a fairly normal age to start. 

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, MoyaPechal said:

My daughter turns 5 in March. Normally we'd start K next year, but a ton of people in our area held their kids back from K this year because of distance learning (most kids haven't been in school at all since March). It's making me really nervous about college applications in the future. I graduated during a really competitive year (the year everyone switched to the common app) and while I did get into a good school, it was one of my safeties and my mother cried about me not getting in anywhere else. And if we do state schools to try to save money, it's already disproportionately harder to get into the best ones like UVA if you live in Northern Virginia. Part of me wants to either start K early and try to accelerate a tiny bit over the years so she graduates a year early and the other part wonders if I should wait an extra year before starting kindergarten. Am I overthinking this? I have anxiety issues and need a reality check.

We're going to homeschool for both religious and academic reasons. She can count to 25 and knows all the basic letter sounds but blending is really hit or miss. Usually she can't. Aside from being able to write her name, she's Kindergarten-ready according to our school district. We haven't done any formal academics aside from Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading once in a while because until recently I was planning to do a CM curriculum and they say no formal lessons until at least 6. 

*On paper*, your dd would be a kindergartener next fall. It has nothing to do with anything except her age. Compulsory school age in Virginia is five years old, so legally, she's going to be "in kindergarten" next all (although you can waive filing a NOI for a 5yo).

When she is officially "in kindergarten" has nothing to do with when or how often or in what manner you teach her formally. FTR, I would expect a child who is not yet five years old to be "hit or miss" on "blending." Also, if you like CM, you don't have to wait until the fall of when she's six. You can start in March. Or you can do CM kinds of things beginning now, because CM isn't all about formal lessons.

Yes, you are thinking about this too much. 🙂

[MoyaPechal]

20 minutes ago, BookMamaLade said:

As an anxiety sufferer, I understand the overthinking, but yes, I'd say you're overthinking it. There are far too many unknowns to plan in detail for something so many years down the road.  In general, if she is Kindergarten ready, 5 is a fairly normal age to start. 

Thanks for the reality check! I'm just feeling super overwhelmed by trying to figure out a curriculum and this year in general.

[MoyaPechal]

4 minutes ago, Ellie said:

*On paper*, your dd would be a kindergartener next fall. It has nothing to do with anything except her age. Compulsory school age in Virginia is five years old, so legally, she's going to be "in kindergarten" next all (although you can waive filing a NOI for a 5yo).

When she is officially "in kindergarten" has nothing to do with when or how often or in what manner you teach her formally. FTR, I would expect a child who is not yet five years old to be "hit or miss" on "blending." Also, if you like CM, you don't have to wait until the fall of when she's six. You can start in March. Or you can do CM kinds of things beginning now, because CM isn't all about formal lessons.

Yes, you are thinking about this too much. 🙂

Thank you! I just hear from other parents around here that their 5yos are reading chapter books already and it freaks me out. I was considering filing to "redshirt" but I don't feel good about it since she's already technically kindergarten-ready. I've been trying out some CM things this year like nature walks and games with wooden letters, but I don't think I'm going to stick with that method.

[Ellie]

59 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

Thank you! I just hear from other parents around here that their 5yos are reading chapter books already and it freaks me out. I was considering filing to "redshirt" but I don't feel good about it since she's already technically kindergarten-ready. I've been trying out some CM things this year like nature walks and games with wooden letters, but I don't think I'm going to stick with that method.

I don't believe in red-shirting, anyway, especially not homeschooled children, but your dd has an "early" birthday; if you held her back on paper and some day she went to an actual school, she would be much older than many of the children, and that's awkward if nothing else. Also, she would be graduating a year later, and that isn't good, either.

Also, I would want to see these "chapter books" (which are actually novels, or juvenile novels) that other five-year-old children are reading. It's really rare for children that young to have that level of reading ability.

There are so many things you can be doing with your little person, and you don't have to hang a label  on them. Just be a good mother, and do the kinds of things that good mothers do, and your dd will be fine.

[MoyaPechal]

3 minutes ago, Ellie said:

I don't believe in red-shirting, anyway, especially not homeschooled children, but your dd has an "early" birthday; if you held her back on paper and some day she went to an actual school, she would be much older than many of the children, and that's awkward if nothing else. Also, she would be graduating a year later, and that isn't good, either.

Also, I would want to see these "chapter books" (which are actually novels, or juvenile novels) that other five-year-old children are reading. It's really rare for children that young to have that level of reading ability.

There are so many things you can be doing with your little person, and you don't have to hang a label  on them. Just be a good mother, and do the kinds of things that good mothers do, and your dd will be fine.

Yeah, normally I'd definitely agree. I took a year off in high school for a sports development program and being at least a year older than everyone was uncomfortable. I turned 19 the November of my senior year. Covid has made everything weird. She might actually end up being one of the youngest if we send her to PS on time because even kids with Feb birthdays were redshirted this year. I'll just go at her pace and see what the situation is when we actually get to high school, I guess.

 

Some of it might be exaggeration, but one of her best friends is almost exactly a year older than she is and last winter he was reading and writing already (in pre-K). A lot of parents push academics really early here.

[wendyroo]

15 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Also, I would want to see these "chapter books" (which are actually novels, or juvenile novels) that other five-year-old children are reading. It's really rare for children that young to have that level of reading ability.

I think this is overstating the case a little and making it seem like the other parents must be lying or exaggerating.

Realistically, there is just a HUGE range for normal reading skills at that age. It is perfectly normal for a 5 year old to not know all their letter sounds; it is also perfectly normal for them to be reading chapter books.

Granted, I'm not talking about War and Peace, but my children tend to progress from Tashi, The Littles, and The Chalkbox Kid to Charlotte's Web, Boxcar Children and Fantastic Mr. Fox before they turn 6.

I agree that that level of reading at that age is unusual, but I wouldn't go so far as to say rare. A friend who is a kindergarten teacher says one of the hardest parts of managing her class is that some kids enter with almost no reading skills, a handful enter already knowing all the reading skills they will be taught in kindergarten, and one or two start the year reading Frog and Toad and are quickly ready for chapter books. So based on her experience, one or two out of every 20ish kids are reading at that level.

[Xahm]

Go ahead and start. Yes, you are overthinking, but if that's who you are, that's who you are. I'm practicing the skill of setting aside the overthinking, being able to make a decision and stick with it at the front part of my mind while allowing the back part to think out thousands of different possibilities. I've found it makes it very easy when I do need to make a change, because I've already weighed the pros and cons to just about everything likely to come up in my life, haha.

Anyway, my eldest started Kindergarten as a newly minted 5 year old. She was one of those kids like you've heard about, reading The Reluctant Dragon as a four year old. My next was more typical, starting at 5.5, knowing his sounds but not wanting to put pencil or crayon to paper. He blossomed right around the time he turned 6, suddenly (it felt) ready to do more academic work. Now at 7 he's starting to really see himself as a reader who has favorite books, can help little brother read game directions, etc. The next is 2 weeks to young for the PS cutoff, which is strict in our state. He's more like his older sister in ability and interest, so next year I'm calling him a Kindergartner in spite of the cutoff. If we have to change something later, so be it.

[medawyn]

Meet her where she is and don’t worry right now about what high school or college will look like.  As 2020 has demonstrated so well, we can’t predict what the world will look like 12-13 years from now when you are in the midst of the application process.

I homeschool for myriad reasons, but a small relief for me is that I *don’t* have to worry about whether or not to red shirt my kindergarteners who have bubble birthdays.  I teach them what they are ready to know, whether that’s chapter books at age five (my oldest) or still working on blending at 6 (my next). Knowing how much kids change and how unpredictable they can be, I am relishing the opportunity to postpone the decision of what grade they might be in an official transcript sense.

 

[Not_a_Number]

On 12/2/2020 at 12:32 PM, Ellie said:

Also, I would want to see these "chapter books" (which are actually novels, or juvenile novels) that other five-year-old children are reading. It's really rare for children that young to have that level of reading ability.

I have academically-minded kids, but I can tell you that when she was a newly minted 4 year old, DD8 was spending hours in her beanbag chair reading all the Ramona books. By 5, she was reading Harry Potter and all the Roald Dahl books (I think she'd read some of the Roald Dahls at age 4, but I'm not sure.) 

I'm not talking this up as some sort of achievement on my part -- yes, I taught her to read at age 3, but she also FLEW through the lessons and started reading to herself within months. It was her choice to read all those books and I didn't in any way force her. She still reads for many hours a day. She's a motivated, focused child whose academics are ahead of her social skills, which is why we work a LOT on the social skills. 

But yes, she was reading chapter books at 5, and even a year before that. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[MoyaPechal]

I know it's dependent on the child but I was reading by age 4 just from my mom using Bob Books and I feel like a failure that at most she can read "cat" and "bat" and not even every time we try. She flew through learning the letter sounds, which I introduced when she was almost 4, but just. Can't. Blend. When I try to encourage the blending, I end up getting so frustrated, though I try my best not to show it. Then I get scared of making her hate reading and we take a break for a while.

[MoyaPechal]

On 12/3/2020 at 8:38 PM, medawyn said:

Meet her where she is and don’t worry right now about what high school or college will look like.  As 2020 has demonstrated so well, we can’t predict what the world will look like 12-13 years from now when you are in the midst of the application process.

I homeschool for myriad reasons, but a small relief for me is that I *don’t* have to worry about whether or not to red shirt my kindergarteners who have bubble birthdays.  I teach them what they are ready to know, whether that’s chapter books at age five (my oldest) or still working on blending at 6 (my next). Knowing how much kids change and how unpredictable they can be, I am relishing the opportunity to postpone the decision of what grade they might be in an official transcript sense.

 

We have to start standardized testing (math and language arts only) in first grade and I'm so scared she still won't be able to read and they won't let me keep homeschooling.

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

I know it's dependent on the child but I was reading by age 4 just from my mom using Bob Books and I feel like a failure that at most she can read "cat" and "bat" and not even every time we try. She flew through learning the letter sounds, which I introduced when she was almost 4, but just. Can't. Blend. When I try to encourage the blending, I end up getting so frustrated, though I try my best not to show it. Then I get scared of making her hate reading and we take a break for a while.

How do you teach blending? I know that 100 Easy Lessons sometimes gets a bad rap on here, because it's SO boring, but they do a good job breaking the blending down into teeny little steps. (It's all I used with both kids, so I like it. But I understand where the criticism is coming from!) 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[medawyn]

4 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

We have to start standardized testing (math and language arts only) in first grade and I'm so scared she still won't be able to read and they won't let me keep homeschooling.

Many first graders can’t read.  I taught 2nd grade for 10 years, and every standardized test I administered required me to read aloud to the students for 90% of the exams.  There was one section focused on evaluating the children’s own reading skills.

Also, it would be beyond exceptionally rare for a child to fail a standardized test and for “them” to force the parent to stop homeschooling.  I’ve never heard of that happening.

 

[MoyaPechal]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

How do you teach blending? I know that 100 Easy Lessons sometimes gets a bad rap on here, because it's SO boring, but they do a good job breaking the blending down into teeny little steps. (It's all I used with both kids, so I like it. But I understand where the criticism is coming from!) 

We've been using the Ordinary Parent's Guide and playing with letter tiles. My godmother is letting me borrow it.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, MoyaPechal said:

We've been using the Ordinary Parent's Guide and playing with letter tiles. My godmother is letting me borrow it.

I've never seen it, so you'll have to be patient with me 🙂 . Do they have a strategy for the blending itself? 100 EZ goes through it slowly by first having the kids say words slowly. It also starts out with letter pairs where the two letters both can be stretched -- so something like ssssseeee and not something like teeeee. 

[MoyaPechal]

14 minutes ago, medawyn said:

Many first graders can’t read.  I taught 2nd grade for 10 years, and every standardized test I administered required me to read aloud to the students for 90% of the exams.  There was one section focused on evaluating the children’s own reading skills.

Also, it would be beyond exceptionally rare for a child to fail a standardized test and for “them” to force the parent to stop homeschooling.  I’ve never heard of that happening.

 

Intellectually I know that, but everyone was already reading in my first grade class and I have so many friends who taught themselves to read by the age of 4. I guess I have a skewed perspective and I'm worried it means she won't be gifted like my husband and I are. 

 

Edit: Not that I think you need to be gifted to have worth or anything but that's very much my parents' view and this is a hyper-competitive area where being in the gifted programs is a basic expectation parents have for their kids. 

Edited December 8, 2020 by MoyaPechal

[MoyaPechal]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I've never seen it, so you'll have to be patient with me 🙂 . Do they have a strategy for the blending itself? 100 EZ goes through it slowly by first having the kids say words slowly. It also starts out with letter pairs where the two letters both can be stretched -- so something like ssssseeee and not something like teeeee. 

It has you cover the letters and then uncover them while you say the sounds. It basically just says "sound it out without stopping." 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

Intellectually I know that, but everyone was already reading in my first grade class and I have so many friends who taught themselves to read by the age of 4. I guess I have a skewed perspective and I'm worried it means she won't be gifted like my husband and I are. 

Ah-ha. I know exactly where you're coming from here, and it's perhaps not a popular point of view.... but I also come from a family of gifted learners, and I share your concerns. 

For what it's worth, I have two bright children, and one of them had a MUCH easier time learning to read than the other one. I don't think having an easy time learning to read is indicative of much of anything -- for example, at the moment, they both seem equally mathy, and the younger one who had a harder time is also much more emotionally astute and has an AMAZING verbal memory. 

@EKS had a similar experience, I think. Just because she's having trouble learning to read doesn't mean she won't be an advanced learner in any way. 

... now, it's entirely possible for gifted parents not to have advanced learners, but you should probably cross that bridge when you get there and not extrapolate from reading ability. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

It has you cover the letters and then uncover them while you say the sounds. It basically just says "sound it out without stopping." 

You might want to get 100 Easy Lessons and use some of their techniques. I'm sure other programs have those, too, but I'm not sure which ones, since 100 EZ is all we've ever used. But that program is meant for younger kids and therefore it breaks down the blending into itty little bits. It was helpful for my kids -- I taught them both between 3 and 4. (You wouldn't even need to use the whole program if, like many people, you found it boring after a while.)

Edited December 8, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[MoyaPechal]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Ah-ha. I know exactly where you're coming from here, and it's perhaps not a popular point of view.... but I also come from a family of gifted learners, and I share your concerns. 

For what it's worth, I have two bright children, and one of them had a MUCH easier time learning to read than the other one. I don't think having an easy time learning to read is indicative of much of anything -- for example, at the moment, they both seem equally mathy, and the younger one who had a harder time is also much more emotionally astute and has an AMAZING verbal memory. 

@EKS had a similar experience, I think. Just because she's having trouble learning to read doesn't mean she won't be an advanced learner in any way. 

... now, it's entirely possible for gifted parents not to have advanced learners, but you should probably cross that bridge when you get there and not extrapolate from reading ability. 

Yeah I've just been in a "gifted" culture my whole life, it feels like. Top gifted sections in my middle school, went to a crazy New England boarding school and then a top university, and now I live in a "coastal elite" city. She is very bright and intense and makes connections I don't expect. I just hear about how early other kids are reading and that they skip count for fun (I haven't even introduced the idea of that??) and are already doing math on their own and it freaks me out. Even though I, myself, didn't have any math until 1st grade and no formal academics at all until then.

[MoyaPechal]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

You might want to get 100 Easy Lessons and use some of their techniques. I'm sure other programs have those, too, but I'm not sure which ones, since 100 EZ is all we've ever used. But that program is meant for younger kids and therefore it breaks down the blending into itty little bits. It was helpful for my kids -- I taught them both between 3 and 4. (You wouldn't even need to use the whole program if, like many people, you found it boring after a while.)

Okay, that sounds helpful! I was trying out some Charlotte Mason phonics stuff on my own, too, but it's too unstructured for me. I need a set routine.

Edited December 8, 2020 by MoyaPechal

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, MoyaPechal said:

Yeah I've just been in a "gifted" culture my whole life, it feels like. Top gifted sections in my middle school, went to a crazy New England boarding school and then a top university, and now I live in a "coastal elite" city. She is very bright and intense and makes connections I don't expect. I just hear about how early other kids are reading and that they skip count for fun (I haven't even introduced the idea of that??) and are already doing math on their own and it freaks me out. Even though I, myself, didn't have any math until 1st grade and no formal academics at all until then.

And you were fine, right? 😉 Out of DH and myself, I read early and he read on time, and you certainly can't tell the difference now. (We're also "coastal elites," if that helps.)

I've enjoyed teaching my kids to read early, but that's because it was low stress. At the point it's being stressful or affecting your relationship, I'd recommend regrouping and either waiting or seeing if another method works (hence, you could try 100 EZ.) But this is absolutely not worth worrying about and doesn't mean much of anything. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, MoyaPechal said:

Okay, that sounds helpful! I was trying out some Charlotte Mason phonics stuff on my own, too, but it's too unstructured for me. I need a set routine.

Let me know how it goes! I always find that the most valuable things in the programs are their specific cognitive techniques -- everything else I can take or leave. (Come to think of it, 100EZ is the only official program we've used so far. We don't use a writing program or a math program or a science program or an anything program. But I cobble together bits and pieces that work for me.) 

And try not to worry about keeping up with everyone else 🙂 . I know it's easier said than done, but it really doesn't matter. It even doesn't matter if your ultimate goals is admission to a prestigious university and an "elite" career (which, again, are perhaps unpopular goals but ones I sympathize with.) 

[MoyaPechal]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

And you were fine, right? 😉 Out of DH and myself, I read early and he read on time, and you certainly can't tell the difference now. (We're also "coastal elites," if that helps.)

I've enjoyed teaching my kids to read early, but that's because it was low stress. At the point it's being stressful or affecting your relationship, I'd recommend regrouping and either waiting or seeing if another method works (hence, you could try 100 EZ.) But this is absolutely not worth worrying about and doesn't mean much of anything. 

In terms of academics, yes. But it was way too much pressure and I got really burned out. So I'm simultaneously worried about not doing enough and doing too much.

[MoyaPechal]

3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Let me know how it goes! I always find that the most valuable things in the programs are their specific cognitive techniques -- everything else I can take or leave. (Come to think of it, 100EZ is the only official program we've used so far. We don't use a writing program or a math program or a science program or an anything program. But I cobble together bits and pieces that work for me.) 

And try not to worry about keeping up with everyone else 🙂 . I know it's easier said than done, but it really doesn't matter. It even doesn't matter if your ultimate goals is admission to a prestigious university and an "elite" career (which, again, are perhaps unpopular goals but ones I sympathize with.) 

I mean those things would be great but career-wise, mostly I just want her to be able to support herself and live comfortably. Going from upper middle class to lower middle class due to the cost of living has been awful. Competition for the best state schools is really tough in our area, though. At least for UVA, I've heard. They can't have everyone be from one section of the state and there are a lot of high achieving students here.

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

In terms of academics, yes. But it was way too much pressure and I got really burned out. So I'm simultaneously worried about not doing enough and doing too much.

I just meant it didn't hold you back academically 😄 . 

I think homeschooling is great if you want to accelerate kids without burning them out. There's SO MUCH MORE TIME when you're homeschooling. DD8 can do a lot more things seriously than she'd be able to do while in school. (We started homeschooling after kindergarten after it became clear that doing academics after school wasn't going to cut it.) 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, MoyaPechal said:

I mean those things would be great but career-wise, mostly I just want her to be able to support herself and live comfortably. Going from upper middle class to lower middle class due to the cost of living has been awful. Competition for the best state schools is really tough in our area, though. At least for UVA, I've heard. They can't have everyone be from one section of the state and there are a lot of high achieving students here.

OK, perhaps I shouldn't have even discussed colleges, lol. 

She's going to be fine even if she doesn't figure out blending until she's older, I promise. This isn't a serious problem, and it sounds like it's causing far too much stress for how unimportant it is 🙂 . 

Try to redirect your energy to something else? Take a break, try a different approach, do some math games, read to her, play some audiobooks, and try not to sweat it. It really won't matter in the long run. I promise! 

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

I mean those things would be great but career-wise, mostly I just want her to be able to support herself and live comfortably. Going from upper middle class to lower middle class due to the cost of living has been awful. Competition for the best state schools is really tough in our area, though. At least for UVA, I've heard. They can't have everyone be from one section of the state and there are a lot of high achieving students here.

 

Out of curiosity, what does your username mean, to go a bit off-topic? 

[MoyaPechal]

35 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

Out of curiosity, what does your username mean, to go a bit off-topic? 

It's a transliteration of "my sorrow" in Russian. I was feeling really down about infertility stuff the day I made my account. 🤦‍♀️ 

[MoyaPechal]

38 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, perhaps I shouldn't have even discussed colleges, lol. 

She's going to be fine even if she doesn't figure out blending until she's older, I promise. This isn't a serious problem, and it sounds like it's causing far too much stress for how unimportant it is 🙂 . 

Try to redirect your energy to something else? Take a break, try a different approach, do some math games, read to her, play some audiobooks, and try not to sweat it. It really won't matter in the long run. I promise! 

We've been taking a break for a few weeks. Unless she asks to play a letter sound game. And I'm getting some math games for her for Christmas. Thank you! I'll order 100 EZ lessons off thriftbooks or something. 

[Not_a_Number]

14 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

It's a transliteration of "my sorrow" in Russian. I was feeling really down about infertility stuff the day I made my account. 🤦‍♀️ 

Are you a Russian speaker? 

[MoyaPechal]

8 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Are you a Russian speaker? 

I studied it in high school and then majored in it at college. I'm really out of practice because I have no one to practice with here, but yes.

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

I studied it in high school and then majored in it at college. I'm really out of practice because I have no one to practice with here, but yes.

Got it, thanks! 

It's technically my first language, although it's not my best language 🙂 . 

[EKS]

Kindergarten is too early to be thinking about high school graduation timing.  Teach the child in front of you and worry about when she should graduate when she gets to high school.  If you homeschool all the way through, you can add or take away a year as appropriate to who she is at that point.  She could also graduate on time and do a gap year.

[Xahm]

I know that it can be really hard and scary to shift into a whole new pattern of thinking, but you aren't setting off on a race against all your friends' and neighbors' children. I totally get that it can look that way and it sure can feel that way, but it's just not true when you're homeschooling. You don't have to worry about making sure your kid is the right kind of gifted to get noticed in a good way to get set in early elementary school to be able to take the best classes later and get into the best high school. You get to put your kid in classes that will allow her to learn and grow as a small person in her own time. Those classes are the ones you make or find, using whatever you want and dumping it if it isn't working. It's hand crafting, not factory manufacturing. The product is more likely to be variable, but also more likely to be high-quality. It takes tons of work and attention, of course. Homeschooling isn't some magical thing that automatically produces great results, but from what you've said, I don't think there's any chance you are going to slack off! You may find that your child turns out to be highly competive when it comes time to apply for college. She's going to have time to develop her own interests and personality, likely giving her a CV that will make her stand out. Or maybe she won't have those interests or drive, and homeschooling will give her the space to decide which path to take, without feeling like a failure for not taking on the high-pressure elite school path. None of it will hinge on whether she learns to blend at 5, 6, or 8. 

Right now, it looks like you have a good plan. Keep her loving books and reading by reading aloud and talking all the time about everything.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Xahm
My phone tried to help me by changing my words around

[medawyn]

18 hours ago, MoyaPechal said:

Intellectually I know that, but everyone was already reading in my first grade class and I have so many friends who taught themselves to read by the age of 4. I guess I have a skewed perspective and I'm worried it means she won't be gifted like my husband and I are. 

 

Edit: Not that I think you need to be gifted to have worth or anything but that's very much my parents' view and this is a hyper-competitive area where being in the gifted programs is a basic expectation parents have for their kids. 

I understand coming from a competitive environment, but can I suggest really thinking through why you are homeschooling and embracing the fact that you are stepping out of the box? Step way out.  Your child isn't competing with anyone; you are helping her develop into her best self.

Are you going to love her less if she's not gifted like you or your husband?  Will her life be worth less? Of course not. But regardless of whether or not she is gifted, homeschooling will give you the opportunity to meet her where she is, give her plenty of time to develop and explore passions, and move at her own pace with excellence.  Begin gifted does not guarantee success in life, but being grounded in self and having spent years pursuing knowledge for pleasure, personal value, and to the best of one's individual ability is probably a solid route to satisfaction if not happiness.

For what it's worth, I'm one of 31 grandchildren.  All of us except one attended college, and the one who did not is an olympic athlete who now owns her own training facility. Of the 31, 17 went to Ivy League schools; the rest to Tier 1 schools.  Twelve have post undergrad degrees, and that number will grow since a good chunk are under 25 and still in first jobs or undergrad. High expectations for academics run deep in my family.  One of my cousins and I had a long conversation this September because she is choosing to homeschool her children for this year.  She said that she didn't really experience joy and passion until her 30s.  All her memories of her teens and 20s are filled with stress about failing to meet expectations and pressure to check the next box to be worthy for whatever her peers were also competing for.  She attended a very prestigious East Coast boarding school, followed by Ivy undergrad and grad, and then pressure to perform in her job.  She's successful on paper, but not very happy.  When we last spoke, she has already decided that this is the best year she could have given her kids: she's amazed at how much less stress they are experiencing and how much fun she is having.  And learning is happening, too.

You can push and push and push to force reading and create an environment where either reading becomes an unpleasant chore or the parent/child relationship is strained.  And what would you have gained?  The same is true for rushing math.  Is it worth it to say your 5th grader is taking Algebra just to have him be like the calculus students @Not_a_number describes who are really missing fundamental understanding of math? Or would it be better to take Algebra in 7th or 8th or (gasp) 9th grade and have a really strong foundation?

The pressure is real, especially if it is both familial and societal.  But homeschooling can let you escape the box and have a world of opportunities.

[Not_a_Number]

11 minutes ago, medawyn said:

You can push and push and push to force reading and create an environment where either reading becomes an unpleasant chore or the parent/child relationship is strained.  And what would you have gained?  The same is true for rushing math.  Is it worth it to say your 5th grader is taking Algebra just to have him be like the calculus students @Not_a_number describes who are really missing fundamental understanding of math? Or would it be better to take Algebra in 7th or 8th or (gasp) 9th grade and have a really strong foundation?

I totally agree with the rest of your post, but I want to push back here a tad. It is absolutely possible to do reading and math early without spoiling the joy or straining the parent-child relationship. However, to do so, you have to be mindful of what your kid can and can't do and you have to slow down as needed. 

I say this as someone who has taught her kids to read at 3 and who has a 3rd grader doing algebra 😉 . Mind you, the 3rd grader LOVES doing algebra and cites the fact that school wouldn't let her do algebra in 3rd grade (you're not wrong there, DD8...) as one of the reasons for not wanting to go to school. And both my 4 year olds got a lot of joy out of reading to themselves. 

However, if you're going to go that route, you do have to be patient, flexible, and willing to back off. That means that you have to understand that a young kid doesn't process in the same way that an older kid does, and that means not being deterred by things taking a different, more circuitous path than you would at an older age. 

So... I'm all for working on reading/math/writing/whatever with young kids. But not at the expense of the relationship or at the expense of the joy that a child gets from the subject. If something doesn't work, take a break, look for different methods, regroup... don't just push forward when things feel irritating or unpleasant 🙂 . Basically, try to be chill about the process. You can only control so much of it -- your kids are who they are .

Edited December 9, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[medawyn]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I totally agree with the rest of your post, but I want to push back here a tad. It is absolutely possible to do reading and math early without spoiling the joy or straining the parent-child relationship. However, to do so, you have to be mindful of what your kid can and can't do and you have to slow down as needed. 

I say this as someone who has taught her kids to read at 3 and who has a 3rd grader doing algebra 😉 . Mind you, the 3rd grader LOVES doing algebra and cites the fact that school wouldn't let her do algebra in 3rd grade (you're not wrong there, DD8...) as one of the reasons for not wanting to go to school. And both my 4 year olds got a lot of joy out of reading to themselves. 

However, if you're going to go that route, you do have to be patient, flexible, and willing to back off. That means that you have to understand that a young kid doesn't process in the same way that an older kid does, and that means not being deterred by things taking a different, more circuitous path than you would at an older age. 

So... I'm all for working on reading/math/writing/whatever with young kids. But not at the expense of the relationship or at the expense of the joy that a child gets from the subject. If something doesn't work, take a break, look for different methods, regroup... don't just push forward when things feel irritating or unpleasant 🙂 . Basically, try to be chill about the process. You can only control so much of it -- your kids are who they are .

Oh, I agree.  My oldest was reading fluently at 4.  He’s not as advanced at math as your DD (and doesn’t have the advantage of a natural math teacher) but is certainly above grade level.  I’m only responding because OP started by saying that her DD at 4 is struggling with blending.  Some kids are more than ready to blend by then, but if OP’s daughter isn’t, then waiting 3-6 months for her to be ready isn’t going to be a detriment to her long term academics and shouldn’t be a cause for anxiety.

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, medawyn said:

Oh, I agree.  My oldest was reading fluently at 4.  He’s not as advanced at math as your DD (and doesn’t have the advantage of a natural math teacher) but is certainly above grade level.  I’m only responding because OP started by saying that her DD at 4 is struggling with blending.  Some kids are more than ready to blend by then, but if OP’s daughter isn’t, then waiting 3-6 months for her to be ready isn’t going to be a detriment to her long term academics and shouldn’t be a cause for anxiety.

Definitely not a cause for anxiety! (I hope my posts have been clear that I think that, despite my enthusiasm for early teaching.) But also nothing wrong with trying a new way of teaching blending, either. Either way, though, slowing down and relaxing is key 🙂 . A new way may or may not work. She may or may not be ready. 

Even my two gifted kids had very different levels of readiness for reading when we started lessons. DD8 flew through 100 EZ right after turning 3. Given how easy it was for her, and how easily she's currently picking up other alphabets, I would guess I would have been able to teach her to read at age 2 if I had chosen to do so. DD4, on the other hand, really WANTED to learn but needed much more scaffolding despite being slightly older and considerably more motivated. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[SKL]

I agree that not being able to read before age 5 is extremely normal.  One of mine just started to read a few words around her 5th birthday - she is a fairly average learner.  My other one was a much faster learner.

One thing I would point out - in my experience, there is a time when many kids' reading just "clicks."  I don't know what else to call it.  One day they struggle to read a line of KG level text, and the next day they can suddenly read a pile of easy readers.  You never know when that "click" will happen.

I would also suggest ... though this forum tends to be super pro phonics, it can be a good idea to teach a small number of sight words, just to encourage the child that she can be a reader.  For some kids, the sight words are just way easier to learn at the beginning.  I personally would give it a try, and if it works, great, and if not, just move on as if nothing had happened.  😛

I would not start KG "early" for a child who is not reading by about 5yo, but I wouldn't start KG late either, absent a very strong social/emotional reason that is likely to make school very difficult in the future.  Like Ellie, I don't believe in "redshirting."  There is some research that it's better to challenge a younger child than to "give the gift of time" when it isn't needed.

[MoyaPechal]

So I got the 100 EZ Lessons book and it's going better but still like pulling teeth. She hates the rhyming exercises so much that she almost cries, but she gets everything quickly once she actually puts in a solid effort. (I'm genuinely wondering if she has my ADHD at this point because we did 3 of the little exercises in 10 minutes today before needing to stop and getting her to focus for that long was a Herculean effort).

She did ask to start learning math so I got the Singapore Essentials book and she LOVES it. Still hard for her to focus, but she asks to do it every day (I make sure we do reading first) and she doesn't want to stop even when it's clear she's reached her limit for focusing.

 

I do have a question about the 100 EZ Lessons book, though. I noticed that in later lessons, it doesn't teach letter pairs and the sounds they make, but rather will show ĒaT and say, "This word has a little sound in it. We don't say that sound. Just say the big sounds." Same with words like ROCk and NŌSe. And it says "you" is a " silly word" that we don't say the way we sound it out instead of explaining that "ou" makes the ū sound sometimes. Will this make it harder for her to sound out words when she sees them for the first time in a book? This book is working out better than the Ordinary Parent's Guide for teaching blending but I'm concerned about how it's teaching the actual phonics. Does this end up being an issue? 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

So I got the 100 EZ Lessons book and it's going better but still like pulling teeth. She hates the rhyming exercises so much that she almost cries, but she gets everything quickly once she actually puts in a solid effort. (I'm genuinely wondering if she has my ADHD at this point because we did 3 of the little exercises in 10 minutes today before needing to stop and getting her to focus for that long was a Herculean effort).

How far are you in? I found that the early lessons were ridiculously boring. And DD8 also HATED the rhyming exercises with all her heart. She didn't have trouble with the rest of the book, though. But we had to split up the early lessons into two pieces, since they were SO tedious. 

They were really useful for teaching both my kids how to sound out, though. So they worked well for that. 

 

Quote

She did ask to start learning math so I got the Singapore Essentials book and she LOVES it. Still hard for her to focus, but she asks to do it every day (I make sure we do reading first) and she doesn't want to stop even when it's clear she's reached her limit for focusing.

Yay! That sounds great. 

 

Quote

I do have a question about the 100 EZ Lessons book, though. I noticed that in later lessons, it doesn't teach letter pairs and the sounds they make, but rather will show ĒaT and say, "This word has a little sound in it. We don't say that sound. Just say the big sounds." Same with words like ROCk and NŌSe. And it says "you" is a " silly word" that we don't say the way we sound it out instead of explaining that "ou" makes the ū sound sometimes. Will this make it harder for her to sound out words when she sees them for the first time in a book? This book is working out better than the Ordinary Parent's Guide for teaching blending but I'm concerned about how it's teaching the actual phonics. Does this end up being an issue? 

They'll do letter pairs later 🙂 . This is just their hack to get the kids reading as early as possible. 

I have two kids, one of whom is really gifted with symbol recognition and one of whom isn't. Neither had trouble moving to normal books after the book. They do move closer and closer to normal fonts as they move on... they do the normal ea later, for example. They don't do ALL the letter combinations, but they do enough to get a kid started with easy readers. 

With DD8, that meant that I taught her a few more combos within the space of a month after being done the book and left her to it. With DD4, it means we're still learning letter combos a year later -- it takes her a LONG time to pick them up, so we spend a few weeks on each one. (We had to slow the 100EZ Lessons book down to twice a week to accommodate that.) But either way, the early hacks weren't a problem. 

The thing I really like with the book is that they add one letter at a time but the kid still gets to read! It feels like real success for them, I think. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[MoyaPechal]

11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

How far are you in? I found that the early lessons were ridiculously boring. And DD8 also HATED the rhyming exercises with all her heart. She didn't have trouble with the rest of the book, though. But we had to split up the early lessons into two pieces, since they were SO tedious. 

They were really useful for teaching both my kids how to sound out, though. So they worked well for that. 

 

Yay! That sounds great. 

 

They'll do letter pairs later 🙂 . This is just their hack to get the kids reading as early as possible. 

I have two kids, one of whom is really gifted with symbol recognition and one of whom isn't. Neither had trouble moving to normal books after the book. They do move closer and closer to normal fonts as they move on... they do the normal ea later, for example. They don't do ALL the letter combinations, but they do enough to get a kid started with easy readers. 

With DD8, that meant that I taught her a few more combos within the space of a month after being done the book and left her to it. With DD4, it means we're still learning letter combos a year later -- it takes her a LONG time to pick them up, so we spend a few weeks on each one. (We had to slow the 100EZ Lessons book down to twice a week to accommodate that.) But either way, the early hacks weren't a problem. 

The thing I really like with the book is that they add one letter at a time but the kid still gets to read! It feels like real success for them, I think. 

Thank you so much for explaining that they do introduce the pairs later on! I tried to Google info about it and didn't find anything useful, just generic reviews, and didn't see that when I searched through the book.

We're halfway through lesson 8. At best we can get through half a lesson a day. The rhyming exercises are I think the only part she really struggles with, even though she's figured out how to do them. She sounded out a CVC word the other day without stopping between the sounds and I almost cried.

Edited January 15, 2021 by MoyaPechal

[Not_a_Number]

12 minutes ago, MoyaPechal said:

Thank you so much for explaining that they do introduce the pairs later on! I tried to Google info about it and didn't find anything useful, just generic reviews, and didn't see that when I searched through the book.

I don't think we have ours with us, but if you read the intro, there's a table that shows what lesson introduces which letters and which letter combos. I really recommend reading all the introductory material -- I read all their advice and then ignored some of it, like I'm wont to do, but I appreciated having it there. 

 

Quote

We're halfway through lesson 8. At best we can get through half a lesson a day. The rhyming exercises are I think the only part she really struggles with, even though she's figured out how to do them. She sounded out a CVC word the other day without stopping between the sounds and I almost cried.

They do a SERIOUSLY good job with the blending. I was really impressed with that, even though it's also what makes the book so tedious at the beginning. 

For what it's worth, my kiddo who had trouble with the rhyming exercises was my natural, easy, fluent phonetic reader. My kiddo who had an easy time with the rhyming does a LOT of filling in of words by context and sound. Convincing her to read phonetically takes a lot of work. 

They are both strong readers, but they are quite different. 

Oh, and the lessons get MUCH more fun around Lesson 20, at least if you have the kind of kid who likes to read short and silly stories with a silly picture you hide until the end of the story 😄 . DD8 was quite taken with them. DD4, less so, but she tolerated them 😉 . 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Not_a_Number