How bad does one grade senior year look?

[Dmmetler]

Trying not to panic, but DD'S final grade just posted for one of her college classes-as a C. She was in the 90's/high 80's on everything graded, so a B wouldn't have been a huge surprise, but a C is. She's asked the professor to explain the grade, sine it doesn't match the online grade book, but I'm assuming that somehow she missed an assignment or something. 

 

So, how bad does it look for a straight A student to suddenly have a C in a class senior year? Her GPA is still high enough for all of her automatic merit, even with it in place (both high school and college), but, OUCH!

[RootAnn]

This year? Not nearly as bad as any other year. I don't think many colleges will blink at one. 

I hope the prof just ended off a line & it ends up a B or better, but I wouldn't lose any sleep on one C.

[teachermom2834]

I would not worry about it (though I would be annoyed and I hope you get to the bottom of it).

It seems your dd has applied to many schools that she is way above average for. My ds has, too, and I wouldn't worry if this was him. She is so strong this is not going to make a difference. Anyone that reads it will probably think "wow, I wonder what happened there?" and they would probably think it was something not your dd's fault. I know my first inclination would be that there was a reasonable explanation or a rogue professor. I would be prepared with an answer if someone asks but I don't think this is going to cause any damage.

Most of my ds's schools, even though they do require a final transcript, say that admissions and scholarship decisions are made on the first six semesters of high school. 

[BusyMom5]

Hoping it was a mistake!  Shes still such a great student, I'm sure it will be fine.  So many kids and professors are not doing well this year.

I think my DDs professors are doing a bad job this semester- she just got a graded paper back from October.   Her assignments from November are all still not graded in some classes.  I'm hoping she can still pull an A, but this semester has been rough.  Shes only doing 1 course next semester,  do I'm hoping that doesn't look too bad!  Only 5 credits Senior year.  

[daijobu]

Try to get to the bottom of this.  You can use one of the extra fields in the application, ones that ask something like, "Is there anything else you'd like us to know?" and use it to explain the missing assignment or whatever it was.  Overall I'd say it's not a big deal.  

[Dmmetler]

Apparently test reviews were not included in the online gradebooj, but did count for the overall grade, and DD had skipped two of them because she was very confident in the topics (and indeed, got high 90's on both the tests in question).  Hopefully, she's learned something from this. Her overall GPA is still well within the range that qualifies for automatic merit. It also was a class we had not planned to transfer (for one of her majors, it is in excess of the math requirement, in the other, there is a sequence required, so we didn't want to transfer just part of it). 

Honestly, this semester has had so many different e-mails, online portals and meeting tools that I'm not surprised something got forgotten, and prioritizing getting an application or scholarship essay vs doing a review problem set that she was confident on actually seems like reasonable decisionmaking. Except that Apparently the reviews counted as much as the tests. 

[freesia]

39 minutes ago, Dmmetler2 said:

Apparently test reviews were not included in the online gradebooj, but did count for the overall grade, and DD had skipped two of them because she was very confident in the topics (and indeed, got high 90's on both the tests in question).  Hopefully, she's learned something from this. Her overall GPA is still well within the range that qualifies for automatic merit. It also was a class we had not planned to transfer (for one of her majors, it is in excess of the math requirement, in the other, there is a sequence required, so we didn't want to transfer just part of it). 

Honestly, this semester has had so many different e-mails, online portals and meeting tools that I'm not surprised something got forgotten, and prioritizing getting an application or scholarship essay vs doing a review problem set that she was confident on actually seems like reasonable decisionmaking. Except that Apparently the reviews counted as much as the tests. 

Ugh!  Did the professor say this somewhere (like in the syllabi?)  I would think if it is not listed as equal to a test, your dd would have a reason to challenge the grade.

I am also thinking this years grades will be looked at with grace.  My ds, who has been a straight A student for the past 4 semester, may get 2 Bs this semester in classes he should have easily gotten As.  My dd is taking an online college class this semester and isn't doing as well as she possibly could.  I only know one college kid who is truly thriving academically and getting straight As--but that student has been in counseling bc of anxiety this semester (so not necessarily thriving mental health wise.) 

Anyway, I know this doesn't really apply to your dd's case. I just think that no one's transcript for this year will be what it could have been.

I also think your dd has done so many extraordinary things and has a lot of grades in college courses, so one C may be seen as an outlier.

[MamaSprout]

My dd had a lab professor this semester that was pulled out of retirement at the last minute and had a terrible time with managing an online grade book. Her grades turned to 0's TWICE. She started taking screen shots of the grade book, just in case. She did manage to get her A, but honestly I think it's only because the prof thought she was funny and went out of his way to get it fixed.

[EKS]

On 12/1/2020 at 5:25 PM, Dmmetler said:

She's asked the professor to explain the grade, sine it doesn't match the online grade book, but I'm assuming that somehow she missed an assignment or something.

I see that your daughter got an answer, but in general, I would never simply assume that an instructor is correct.  I've encountered numerous instances where instructors have made mistakes in grading, both at the assignment level and at the course level.  People are socialized to never question an instructor's grading, but if the grading is obviously incorrect or opaque, they absolutely should.  I'm glad your daughter asked about it.

That said, a grading system that prioritizes review work over test grades to the point where an A is dropped down to a C is idiotic.

With regard to your actual question--my older son got a C in Calculus 2 winter quarter of his senior year and in spring quarter took a W in Calculus 3.  I was freaking out, but he got into his top choice engineering college (fairly selective).  He was similar to your daughter in that his extracurriculars were compelling.  

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

I see that your daughter got an answer, but in general, I would never simply assume that an instructor is correct.  I've encountered numerous instances where instructors have made mistakes in grading, both at the assignment level and at the course level.  People are socialized to never question an instructor's grading, but if the grading is obviously incorrect or opaque, they absolutely should.  I'm glad your daughter asked about it.

That said, a grading system that prioritizes review work over test grades to the point where an A is dropped down to a C is idiotic.

With regard to your actual question--my older son got a C in Calculus 2 winter quarter of his senior year and in spring quarter took a W in Calculus 3.  I was freaking out, but he got into his top choice engineering college (fairly selective).  He was similar to your daughter in that his extracurriculars were compelling.  

I'm guessing that the reviews were counted to help students-sincd you could do them, see the answer and explanation and correct them, there was no reason why you couldn't get an A on them. My gut feeling is that, had the class been in person, they wouldn't have counted-they have not in prior classes in the same school. 

 

But it is frustrating to have a kid who should have had an A, or at worst, a really high B (since a few of the topics were new and more shaky) drop to a C, not due to the things that were more shaky, but due to skipping reviews for material that she knew solidly. 

[EKS]

16 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm guessing that the reviews were counted to help students-sincd you could do them, see the answer and explanation and correct them, there was no reason why you couldn't get an A on them. My gut feeling is that, had the class been in person, they wouldn't have counted-they have not in prior classes in the same school. 

But it is frustrating to have a kid who should have had an A, or at worst, a really high B (since a few of the topics were new and more shaky) drop to a C, not due to the things that were more shaky, but due to skipping reviews for material that she knew solidly. 

That and, frankly, college instructors shouldn't hold students' hands this much.  Providing review materials--absolutely.  But requiring that they be completed is a middle school move.

[teachermom2834]

11 minutes ago, EKS said:

That and, frankly, college instructors shouldn't hold students' hands this much.  Providing review materials--absolutely.  But requiring that they be completed is a middle school move.

Yes. The grading structure was probably put in place to help the students pass. I’ve seen this more in community college classes. However, it should not have resulted in a lowered grade for a student who knew the material. The professor should have substituted the test grade for the review or eliminated the requirement or some other method not to penalize someone who knew the material well enough to do well on the test. Very annoying.

My limited experience with cc classes has been that if the student showed proficiency by the end of the class, the grade reflected that. My dh teaches a class that is required for many majors but difficult for most students. He does, for example, substitute the final exam grade for the midterm if the student learns the material by the final. I have seen other teachers willing to go with a final grade reflected in a final exam even if the student struggled early. So it is a shame this thinking doesn’t work in reverse for the student. Doing well on the final but penalized for missing the review is just backwards. Very annoying!

[MamaSprout]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:52 PM, Dmmetler said:

Apparently test reviews were not included in the online gradebooj, but did count for the overall grade, and DD had skipped two of them because she was very confident in the topics (and indeed, got high 90's on both the tests in question).  Hopefully, she's learned something from this. Her overall GPA is still well within the range that qualifies for automatic merit. It also was a class we had not planned to transfer (for one of her majors, it is in excess of the math requirement, in the other, there is a sequence required, so we didn't want to transfer just part of it). 

Honestly, this semester has had so many different e-mails, online portals and meeting tools that I'm not surprised something got forgotten, and prioritizing getting an application or scholarship essay vs doing a review problem set that she was confident on actually seems like reasonable decisionmaking. Except that Apparently the reviews counted as much as the tests. 

If it isn't in writing somewhere, I would suggest she dispute it. It's possible it didn't count until the professor had too many Fs in the class.

[regentrude]

On 12/2/2020 at 12:52 PM, Dmmetler said:

Apparently test reviews were not included in the online gradebooj, but did count for the overall grade, and DD had skipped two of them because she was very confident in the topics (and indeed, got high 90's on both the tests in question).  Hopefully, she's learned something from this. Her overall GPA is still well within the range that qualifies for automatic merit. It also was a class we had not planned to transfer (for one of her majors, it is in excess of the math requirement, in the other, there is a sequence required, so we didn't want to transfer just part of it). 

Honestly, this semester has had so many different e-mails, online portals and meeting tools that I'm not surprised something got forgotten, and prioritizing getting an application or scholarship essay vs doing a review problem set that she was confident on actually seems like reasonable decisionmaking. Except that Apparently the reviews counted as much as the tests. 

was it explained clearly in the syllabus that these would be graded assignments? If not, I would contest the grades. Professors need to explain in the syllabus how the grade is calculated and how different assignments are weighted. They can give extra credit later, but cannot suddenly decide that assignments that were not originally graded, contribute and punish students who didn't submit them.

This said: I don't think it will be an issue. Colleges are very aware that this semester has been extremely difficult for many students. It's a freaking pandemic, everybody is under stress, some teachers don't have their act together, some students struggle...

Edited December 3, 2020 by regentrude

[EKS]

2 hours ago, MamaSprout said:

If it isn't in writing somewhere, I would suggest she dispute it. It's possible it didn't count until the professor had too many Fs in the class.

Absolutely this.

[Not_a_Number]

54 minutes ago, EKS said:

Absolutely this.

I'll third this. If this isn't written in the syllabus, she should contest the grade. 

[Dmmetler]

I'm torn on whether to suggest that she pursue it or not. On one hand, I think she has a case. On the other, there is real benefit in learning that mistakes aren't fatal, and that sometimes letting a ball drop,even if it has consequences, isn't a bad strategy. Or, to put it another way, two years ago she almost certainly would have done the review, graded or not, even if it meant staying up until 2:00 in the morning because she had a cheer competition all weekend, and stressed out over it. So, to let something drop that she didn't need to learn the content, actually seems like a positive step in some ways. It just so happens that she came to that level of maturity during a semester when it seems like the faculty are adding extra hoops and busywork to make up for being online. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm torn on whether to suggest that she pursue it or not. On one hand, I think she has a case. On the other, there is real benefit in learning that mistakes aren't fatal, and that sometimes letting a ball drop,even if it has consequences, isn't a bad strategy. Or, to put it another way, two years ago she almost certainly would have done the review, graded or not, even if it meant staying up until 2:00 in the morning because she had a cheer competition all weekend, and stressed out over it. So, to let something drop that she didn't need to learn the content, actually seems like a positive step in some ways. It just so happens that she came to that level of maturity during a semester when it seems like the faculty are adding extra hoops and busywork to make up for being online. 

I'd at least check if this was on the syllabus. And I think there are valuable self-advocacy skills to be learned here as well 🙂 . 

[teachermom2834]

24 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm torn on whether to suggest that she pursue it or not. On one hand, I think she has a case. On the other, there is real benefit in learning that mistakes aren't fatal, and that sometimes letting a ball drop,even if it has consequences, isn't a bad strategy. Or, to put it another way, two years ago she almost certainly would have done the review, graded or not, even if it meant staying up until 2:00 in the morning because she had a cheer competition all weekend, and stressed out over it. So, to let something drop that she didn't need to learn the content, actually seems like a positive step in some ways. It just so happens that she came to that level of maturity during a semester when it seems like the faculty are adding extra hoops and busywork to make up for being online. 

 

I actually agree that it can be good for some kids, particularly high achievers, to learn that the world keeps spinning when a C ends up on the transcript. And your dd is such a high achiever I don’t think this is going to really be a problem for her ever. 

But- I would give it an inquiry and see if there is anything that can be done, point out any discrepancies in the syllabus and that she clearly mastered the material. I wouldn’t go nuts about it and you can model to her that it isn’t the end of the world, etc and that there is a lesson to be learned.

But that stupid C is going to follow her around when she applies to grad schools, some jobs, etc. I don’t think it will ever be a deal breaker for her so I wouldn’t lose a lot of sleep about it. But it will annoy her for many years, probably. My dh is a cc instructor and he gets the most ridiculous grading appeals every semester. Some of them he works with. This is less ridiculous than many he considers. 

[GoodGrief3]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:52 AM, Dmmetler said:

Apparently test reviews were not included in the online gradebooj, but did count for the overall grade, and DD had skipped two of them because she was very confident in the topics (and indeed, got high 90's on both the tests in question).  Hopefully, she's learned something from this. Her overall GPA is still well within the range that qualifies for automatic merit. It also was a class we had not planned to transfer (for one of her majors, it is in excess of the math requirement, in the other, there is a sequence required, so we didn't want to transfer just part of it). 

Honestly, this semester has had so many different e-mails, online portals and meeting tools that I'm not surprised something got forgotten, and prioritizing getting an application or scholarship essay vs doing a review problem set that she was confident on actually seems like reasonable decisionmaking. Except that Apparently the reviews counted as much as the tests. 

Was she upset? That would be so very annoying to have a grade drop so significantly over a busywork type assignment like that!

I do suspect schools will be quite forgiving about that sort of thing, especially under the current circumstances.

[GoodGrief3]

1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm torn on whether to suggest that she pursue it or not. On one hand, I think she has a case. On the other, there is real benefit in learning that mistakes aren't fatal, and that sometimes letting a ball drop,even if it has consequences, isn't a bad strategy. Or, to put it another way, two years ago she almost certainly would have done the review, graded or not, even if it meant staying up until 2:00 in the morning because she had a cheer competition all weekend, and stressed out over it. So, to let something drop that she didn't need to learn the content, actually seems like a positive step in some ways. It just so happens that she came to that level of maturity during a semester when it seems like the faculty are adding extra hoops and busywork to make up for being online. 

 

Oh, I would pursue it. I forgot that this is a college grade that won't go away after graduation, and she will almost certainly be going on to grad school.

[regentrude]

13 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

I'm torn on whether to suggest that she pursue it or not. On one hand, I think she has a case. On the other, there is real benefit in learning that mistakes aren't fatal, and that sometimes letting a ball drop,even if it has consequences, isn't a bad strategy. Or, to put it another way, two years ago she almost certainly would have done the review, graded or not, even if it meant staying up until 2:00 in the morning because she had a cheer competition all weekend, and stressed out over it. So, to let something drop that she didn't need to learn the content, actually seems like a positive step in some ways. It just so happens that she came to that level of maturity during a semester when it seems like the faculty are adding extra hoops and busywork to make up for being online. 

 

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Yes she learned an important lessen. It still would not be acceptable for the prof to change the grading scheme if it wasn't in the syllabus, and she'll have another valuable lesson confronting him and advocating for herself. That said, check the syllabus first.