Outbreaks in doctor's/dentist's offices?

[Not_a_Number]

Does anyone know how common these are? I'm starting to realize that these don't get reported on due to privacy laws, not because they never happen. 

I haven't found so many states with good breakdowns for this data, but Illinois data seems to suggest that that this kind of outbreak isn't uncommon: 

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/outbreak-locations?regionID=0&rPeriod=2

Anyway, anyone have any local data or any sense about this? When I was looking at Korean and New Zealand data, I didn't see many outbreaks like this, but I did see hospital outbreaks... 

[SKL]

I don't know, but I did ask my dentist about it the last time I was there.  They say they haven't had anything, other than having to quarantine once after an exposure (nobody caught it from the exposure).

[matrips]

I asked my doctor when I was went today for a physical.  She said they haven’t had any cases

[mathnerd]

I know a pediatrician who got it through workplace exposure. He was wearing a mask all the time at work, he is over 60 years old and sees a lot of kids every day.

[EKS]

I just know about a hospital outbreak in our (sort of) rural county but haven't heard of anything at the clinics in the area.

[happi duck]

I trust my dentist but I'm thinking of moving our next cleanings that are in January.  When I made the appointments I didn't conceive of it being worse *and* stuff still open.  (Dentist offices were closed to non-emergencies at the beginning).

 

[Not_a_Number]

18 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I trust my dentist but I'm thinking of moving our next cleanings that are in January.  When I made the appointments I didn't conceive of it being worse *and* stuff still open.  (Dentist offices were closed to non-emergencies at the beginning).

Yeah, I'm definitely moving mine. 

[Not_a_Number]

21 minutes ago, EKS said:

I just know about a hospital outbreak in our (sort of) rural county but haven't heard of anything at the clinics in the area.

Hospitals do seem worse, from all the data I've seen. 

[Bootsie]

On 11/30/2020 at 5:38 PM, Not_a_Number said:

Does anyone know how common these are? I'm starting to realize that these don't get reported on due to privacy laws, not because they never happen. 

I haven't found so many states with good breakdowns for this data, but Illinois data seems to suggest that that this kind of outbreak isn't uncommon: 

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/outbreak-locations?regionID=0&rPeriod=2

Anyway, anyone have any local data or any sense about this? When I was looking at Korean and New Zealand data, I didn't see many outbreaks like this, but I did see hospital outbreaks... 

Why would privacy laws apply differently?  10 cases occurring in patients at Doctor X office could be reported without any information about individuals being reported to the public.

I went for a dental cleaning a few weeks ago.  In the building was the receptionist, the hygienist, and myself.  The hygienist is saying about 10 people per day, was wearing PPE, and had time between patients to wash hands thoroughly, change gloves, etc.  Often she will see several people from the same family in a day.  So, the number of people who would possibly be exposed in one day for an outbreak to occur is much lower than the number of people in a hospital.  I would think that you also have a population visiting a hospital who is more likely to have a compromised immune system and procedures that are occurring in places such as an emergency room that are more difficult to control than in a dental office.  So, I would think that it would be much more likely that an outbreak--a large number of cases tied to one particular location--would be much more likely to occur with a hospital than a dentist office.

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, mathnerd said:

I know a pediatrician who got it through workplace exposure. He was wearing a mask all the time at work, he is over 60 years old and sees a lot of kids every day.

Do you know if he is in a hotspot? Do you know if he wore goggles or a visor in addition to the mask (thinking about kids and all the droplets they make...)? Is he a regular ped, or does he work in specialty care? I am curious, not questioning his carefulness. 

[mathnerd]

@kbutton (quote is not working for me for some reason)

He wore glasses (prescription glasses) and not goggles. Where he lives was not a hotspot when he got infected though it is now a hotspot, he is a regular ped and he works out of his clinic which is part of larger health network. He works in a pediatric department that has a group of pediatricians in adjoining offices and share nurses and health assistants and front desk people. His entire family got it from him and so did his house cleaner 😞 He thinks that he was asymptomatic or had mild symptoms for a while before it became full blown.

He said that he had asked for indefinite time off (he is in his 60's and hence was considered vulnerable) when community spread happened, but the management of the health group he is affiliated to refused to give him extended leave. He is the old fashioned ped who would give the kids their shots himself in his office instead of delegating it to medical assistants. He said that he had been immunizing a lot of kids in the period that this happened.

Edited December 2, 2020 by mathnerd

[melmichigan]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Why would privacy laws apply differently?  10 cases occurring in patients at Doctor X office could be reported without any information about individuals being reported to the public.

I went for a dental cleaning a few weeks ago.  In the building was the receptionist, the hygienist, and myself.  The hygienist is saying about 10 people per day, was wearing PPE, and had time between patients to wash hands thoroughly, change gloves, etc.  Often she will see several people from the same family in a day.  So, the number of people who would possibly be exposed in one day for an outbreak to occur is much lower than the number of people in a hospital.  I would think that you also have a population visiting a hospital who is more likely to have a compromised immune system and procedures that are occurring in places such as an emergency room that are more difficult to control than in a dental office.  So, I would think that it would be much more likely that an outbreak--a large number of cases tied to one particular location--would be much more likely to occur with a hospital than a dentist office.

Here you won't hear about an outbreak unless they don't have the names of people, so doctor's offices and dentists aren't being compiled in any way that I've found.  

They have 10 hygienists and 5 dentists treatment rooms in an open air format at our dentist office (i.e. no doors).  DH and one child have been in for needed care, with appointments first of the day, but we haven't had cleanings.

Edited December 2, 2020 by melmichigan

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, melmichigan said:

Here you won't hear about an outbreak unless they don't have the names of people, so doctor's offices and dentists aren't being compiled in any way that I've found.  

I don't know WHY they aren't reporting on it, but I'm really not seeing reports. And looking at the actual state data, there are definitely outbreaks. 

I did see reports on hospital outbreaks. I think those tend to be bigger, maybe. 

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, mathnerd said:

He works in a pediatric department that has a group of pediatricians in adjoining offices and share nurses and health assistants and front desk people. His entire family got it from him and so did his house cleaner 😞 He thinks that he was asymptomatic or had mild symptoms for a while before it became full blown.

I bet it was shared staff doing stuff outside of work and/or crossing in the break room. I bet he feels bad that he passed it on! 

I think I read that healthcare workers tend to get it from break rooms and that it's community-spread from extracurriculars. This frustrates me as my DH is in healthcare, and we're being quite careful. There are some things that are difficult to do online here, or that still require going to a service desk for pickup if you order online. I just don't understand seeing it at work and then going out and doing risky stuff, but that happens. 

I am thrilled about the vaccine and about healthcare workers being a priority, but I do worry that it will make my DH more likely to pass along asymptomatic infection to us without warning--no symptoms, no quarantine, unless he had some very strange exposure (he's very particular).

[Bootsie]

7 minutes ago, melmichigan said:

Here you won't hear about an outbreak unless they don't have the names of people, so doctor's offices and dentists aren't being compiled in any way that I've found.  

 

I am not understanding this.  Are you talking about officially reported outbreaks and the health department not having the names of people?  

[mathnerd]

8 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I bet it was shared staff doing stuff outside of work and/or crossing in the break room. I bet he feels bad that he passed it on! 

I think I read that healthcare workers tend to get it from break rooms and that it's community-spread from extracurriculars. This frustrates me as my DH is in healthcare, and we're being quite careful. There are some things that are difficult to do online here, or that still require going to a service desk for pickup if you order online. I just don't understand seeing it at work and then going out and doing risky stuff, but that happens. 

I am thrilled about the vaccine and about healthcare workers being a priority, but I do worry that it will make my DH more likely to pass along asymptomatic infection to us without warning--no symptoms, no quarantine, unless he had some very strange exposure (he's very particular).

I think that break room theory might be possible: if they are eating lunch there, chances are that they are taking off their masks to eat while sitting there and perhaps talking on their phone ... then, someone else could come along and sit there and eat while the room still had droplets in the air. This is 100% speculation on my part.

It is really hard for people who need to go to work in person and are unable to work remotely. I hope that we are all able to access the vaccine soon.

[fairfarmhand]

My friends optometry business has not had any cases related to covid, though they did close for 2 weeks due to an exposure. 

[MercyA]

I go to a small town practice of two doctors and one NP. My doctor just came back to work after being out for several weeks due to covid, and now the NP has it. They take everyone's temp at the door, require masks, and officially don't allow anyone with covid symptoms in the building (they send them to another clinic).

He is in his 60's. He wears a face shield all the time, but pulls down the mask underneath it at times. His wife is a public school teacher and there was an outbreak at the school.

[TravelingChris]

None of the medical offices that I have been in have had an outbreak.