For the COVID-cautious: what would you do?

[JennyD]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

Exhausting!  Hard to tell in the moment.  

These vaccines cannot come fast enough.

Edited November 30, 2020 by JennyD

[Porridge]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I

Okay this is totally not helpful for your current situation, but an idea to consider once you resolve the acute stress of this decision — consider putting that in a blog post? Or, it could be a math idea to explore with your daughter—  The math around how things can balloon with multiple “small” exposures? I know many people who feel they are being careful because they are spending time with “small” groups of people, but they have multiple groups and frequent contacts....

Edited November 30, 2020 by JHLWTM

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

54 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

I think it's low risk because I've looked, and I haven't found any clusters tied to well child checkups, and around here, all the doctors are being super careful.  No waiting room, into exam room, contact with one nurse/ tech and doctor, rooms aired and wiped down thoroughly between patients, sick patients mostly being seen via tele medicine and if in office, screened for suspicious symptoms, sometimes seen in car, but if a location sees sick people, it's certain times and days.  

Edited November 30, 2020 by Terabith

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

43 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

Because the baby won't be a baby when the vaccine is available.  

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Terabith

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Porridge]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I don’t know of any studies specifically reporting the risks associated with primary care visits, but I do know that many primary care physicians are taking it very seriously, especially if they are part of a larger multi specialty group practice. If it’s a solo practice pediatrician, things may be different - they may not have the resources to separate out sick patients. But a larger practice will probably have a protocol for triaging sick (respiratory symptoms) patients. Many clinics now have screening protocols for all visits, to weed out potentially infectious patients so they can be seen separately.  Many clinics are also still doing a good chunk of their visits through tele-health to decrease the density of patients in the clinic at any given time. You are probably way too tired to do this, but you could always call the clinic (of the pediatrician) and ask about their COVID policies.  

 

If you have to walk through the urgent care section to get to the pediatrician, then, yeah, don’t go near that place unless you have to. But It’s probably unlikely that the clinic is set up that way.

Edited November 30, 2020 by JHLWTM

[Terabith]

41 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

But if the two week clock starts over every time the baby has to be seen, and the baby is seen at one week, two weeks, one month, two month, nobody is seeing the baby until baby is six weeks old.  And meanwhile, mom may need help with baby, with toddler, or with breastfeeding.  

Edited November 30, 2020 by Terabith

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Shoeless]

I'm the only person I know that takes Covid very, very seriously, and I'd go see the baby.  No, the risk isn't zero, but the baby will only be small for a very short time. Your SIL may really need the support now, too. 

If you are really uncomfortable with the set up, you can always un-pod and head back to NYC and let your in-laws do what they are going to do. 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[regentrude]

14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I think that's part of the feeling for me... the vaccine is almost here, why take risks NOW? 

Almost here? Not on a scale of weeks. Seeing we still can't manage to have covid testing widely available everywhere, I would not realistically expect a vaccine to be widely deployed until the middle of next year. 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[regentrude]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 But I'm scared of the set up where they see the doctor and then immediately see my in-laws. . 

That would actually be very safe. If they were to get exposed at the doctor's, there would not have been time to become contagious. 

[TravelingChris]

All I can tell you is that I have beeen going to a lot of medical appointments since mid March and my dh has gone to a few, and neither of us have gotten COVID.  And as far as COVID goes, I think a pediatric appointment is less likely to have COVID patient than an adult one. 

NOw I mostly see specialists but my concierge primary care doctor has signs outside the door about how they are not seeing patients with Upper respirotoray infeections without you calling and arranging something.  When they did see my dd, she was seen after everyone else was gone except nurse and doctor.

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited November 30, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

All right, I got it. Lots of people think we're unreasonable. I'd still feel AWFUL if something happened to our in-laws or to one of us because we couldn't figure out a way to make this pod safe. It always feels like we're standing on a cliff and we're about to fall off, and yes, maybe that's too dire a visual, but that's how it constantly feels. 

I think I've gotten enough input, thanks. I'm going to delete the post.

[Shoeless]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I would really prefer to figure out some way to be comfortable with it as opposed to taking my toys and going home. The kids would be really upset if we did this. 

 

What's the positivity rate in your county/SIL's county? Is the pediatrician seeing any sick patients? What's their covid protocol? 

If the positivity rate is low AND the pediatrician isn't seeing sick patients AND they have a solid covid protocol, then your risk is low. Wear a mask when you are inside with the baby and parents. 

The other thing to keep in the back of your mind is, if you throw down hard and make a lot of demands of the new parents, you run the risk of them viewing you as "difficult". I know it's not entirely rational given the state of the world, but the birth of a new baby is about the baby and parents. If you push too hard on them about covid, (when it sounds like they're doing the best they can right now), it could have big ripple effects later on.  Like "Hey, remember during the pandemic when everything was hard for everyone, and we had a baby, and NaN made it all about her comfort level? Yeah...." 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Drama Llama]

...

Edited November 30, 2020 by BaseballandHockey

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Shoeless]

That may be true, but they may not perceive it that way.  Like, I am the "difficult" one in my family, because I insist on people being honest with me and treating me respectfully. That should not earn anyone the title of "difficult", yet here we are.  What people feel is not always rational.

It's ok if you aren't comfortable with their covid set up.  You don't have to be ok with it.  It's not 100% safe.  But seeing the baby is a once-in-a-lifetime thing, and I can understand why the grandparents would make the choice to see the baby.  So that leaves you with either accepting the risk they are taking OR opting out of the situation if you can't accept it. 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Porridge]

35 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

 

The Hugs, @Not_a_Number (socially distanced, pandemic approved hugs).  I think I know how you feel. We had a difficult conversation with family members recently about COVID stuff. We are very cautious (or as I call it, “COVID conservative”) as a family.  Others feel we are too extreme. It is hard to be the one setting boundaries, especially if others feel the boundaries are unreasonable. I hope you are able come to a decision you can rest with, and I would hope that your relatives are thoughtful people who can ultimately understand the risk-balancing that has gone into your decision making — risk balancing done out of love and care for the people around you.

Edited November 30, 2020 by JHLWTM

[Not_a_Number]

If everyone could delete my quotes, I'd much appreciate it. 

[Shoeless]

6 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

.

Your SIL might begin to see you as difficult if you push on this.  I think that if I had a baby during a pandemic, and my SIL was putting a lot of pressure on my mother about visiting the baby, and requiring a lot of hoops for everyone to jump through regarding testing and quarantine, I'd flip my lid. It's not just about what is right for *your* kids. 

I don't know how to teach you to be ok with it, unfortunately.  You'll have to look over the data on positivity rates and decide based on that.

Edited November 30, 2020 by MissLemon

[Not_a_Number]

Deleting for privacy reasons. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Shoeless]

Ok, well good luck!

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

Ok, well good luck!

Thanks! Hopefully we'll figure it all out. I really like having this pod, so hopefully we can keep it going forward. 

[JennyD]

34 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I

The only thing I can think of is maybe consult your own pediatrician on the situation?  She will almost certainly have an informed opinion of the overall level of risk/safety in pediatric offices, as well as the factors (waiting room, etc.) that go into that.  I don't know if your ped will return calls but if so that's probably the most efficient way to get the information that will help you decide what to do.

Edited November 30, 2020 by JennyD

[Jean in Newcastle]

Out of curiosity I looked up the Covid precautions for my kids pediatrician (not that they go to a pediatrician now at their ages).  They are very careful.  They have a totally separate clinic set up for symptomatic patients with any kind of infectious illness and have well child visits at dedicated clinics.  Of course, someone asymptomatic could go to the well child clinic but they do screen as best as they can. 

[Not_a_Number]

4 hours ago, kand said:

Not to be a bummer, but I’ve recently become more concerned about healthcare setting outbreaks, rather than less, after finding that they’re not something that one would likely know about unless you went specifically looking for the data. It doesn’t get publicly reported when there are cases tied to a healthcare setting, except when it’s something bigger, like a couple hospital outbreaks we have had locally. I did go looking for more data from my state because of this thread, and found the most recent report, which showed almost 500 outbreaks related to non long term healthcare settings in my state (that means doctors, dentists, and hospital visits, but doesn’t include nursing homes). 70 of those outbreaks have happened in the last two weeks that they had full data reported from. That doesn’t make me feel super fantastic about if we need to go to the doctor 😕. Obviously, people who need to go, need to go.

Could you link me this data? I didn’t find the MA data concerning when I just looked, but I also wasn’t sure how well it was being reported on. 

[*Jessica*]

I’m very COVID cautious and I would be uncomfortable with all of the doctor visits a newborn requires.  If my family were in your situation I wouldn’t expect the grandparents to stay away from the baby, that is their choice to make, but I would keep my family away for a couple of weeks after each appointment as a not-perfect-but-better-than-nothing precaution. 

[Not_a_Number]

5 hours ago, kand said:

Not to be a bummer, but I’ve recently become more concerned about healthcare setting outbreaks, rather than less, after finding that they’re not something that one would likely know about unless you went specifically looking for the data. It doesn’t get publicly reported when there are cases tied to a healthcare setting, except when it’s something bigger, like a couple hospital outbreaks we have had locally. I did go looking for more data from my state because of this thread, and found the most recent report, which showed almost 500 outbreaks related to non long term healthcare settings in my state (that means doctors, dentists, and hospital visits, but doesn’t include nursing homes). 70 of those outbreaks have happened in the last two weeks that they had full data reported from. That doesn’t make me feel super fantastic about if we need to go to the doctor 😕. Obviously, people who need to go, need to go.

Would doctor’s offices be “other healthcare” on here?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/10/30/massachusetts-covid-cluster-data

 

[Not_a_Number]

57 minutes ago, kand said:

Yes, I would interpret that chart as “other healthcare” being non-hospital or long-term care facility outbreaks.

Yeah. It seems like there isn’t a TON in healthcare settings, but then there isn’t much most places.

Also, the article makes a good point about the denominator... there are more restaurant outbreaks, but there are probably also more restaurants?

Edited November 30, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, kand said:

Yes, I would interpret that chart as “other healthcare” being non-hospital or long-term care facility outbreaks.

Here's the most recent data. The cluster chart is on page 38: 

https://www.mass.gov/doc/weekly-covid-19-public-health-report-november-19-2020/download

Overall, this is not reassuring. MANY healthcare outbreaks. Almost as many as in schools, if we count total infections. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Here's the most recent data. The cluster chart is on page 38: 

https://www.mass.gov/doc/weekly-covid-19-public-health-report-november-19-2020/download

Overall, this is not reassuring. MANY healthcare outbreaks. Almost as many as in schools, if we count total infections. 

“Other healthcare” has 23 confirmed clusters with 80 cases total.  It’s such a broad category from what it lists as covering and some of those I would think are far more likely than a doctor’s office to have a cluster.  For instance, addiction services, EMS, ambulatory mental healthcare and home healthcare are all workers working with a population more at risk of catching Covid and thus more at risk themselves of catching it.  I wouldn’t put a pediatrician’s office in the same category. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

“Other healthcare” has 23 confirmed clusters with 80 cases total.  It’s such a broad category from what it lists as covering and some of those I would think are far more likely than a doctor’s office to have a cluster.  For instance, addiction services, EMS, ambulatory mental healthcare and home healthcare are all workers working with a population more at risk of catching Covid and thus more at risk themselves of catching it.  I wouldn’t put a pediatrician’s office in the same category. 

Who knows, right? It's not broken down. If I had the information about where the cases are coming from, then maybe I'd feel good about it. 

[Not_a_Number]

@kand: I found one for Illinois that really split things off: 

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/outbreak-locations?regionID=0&rPeriod=1

This one has medical offices/dentist's offices as its own grouping. It seems like there aren't that many outbreaks in that class, but only in the sense that there aren't that many outbreaks in any given class. So, there aren't as many outbreaks there as in bars... but then I bet there are MORE bars than there are medical offices. 

So what do we make of all this? What I make of all this is that the chance of picking it up in a medical office is just like the chance of picking it up somewhere else indoors -- not that high if you go once, but over time, it adds up.