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My cat is peeing on the floor - new UPDATE in OP


regentrude
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31 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, my guess is that there IS some discomfort, it just isn't clear what it is. Be that mental or physical. 

Have they tried a trial of pain meds, just to see if it helps? 

No, the vet never suggested that. (It would have to be shots, too; she can't be pilled.)

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6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

No, the vet never suggested that. (It would have to be shots, too; she can't be pilled.)

Hmm...they could give a shot, but it wouldn't last super long. 

But a steroid shot would...it isn't en vogue or best practice to give long acting steroid shots to cats anymore...but the vets I know all believe in the quote "never let a pet die without steroids". In other words, if you have no good options left, you might as well try steroids. They knock down discomfort from joint pain, cancer, etc and often give them more pep in their step. The problem is over time they can lead to diabetes, etc...but with a 22 yr old cat, long term side effects are much less relevant compared to current problems. 

Again, I'm not a vet...but if the attractant litter doesn't work, I'd be real tempted to try. 

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1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

But a steroid shot would...it isn't en vogue or best practice to give long acting steroid shots to cats anymore...but the vets I know all believe in the quote "never let a pet die without steroids". In other words, if you have no good options left, you might as well try steroids. They knock down discomfort from joint pain, cancer, etc and often give them more pep in their step. The problem is over time they can lead to diabetes, etc...but with a 22 yr old cat, long term side effects are much less relevant compared to current problems.

Cat has been receiving periodic steroid shots for irritated stomach.

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50 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Cat has been receiving periodic steroid shots for irritated stomach.

OH! Hmm....well, the other side effect of steroids is increased drinking and increased urination.....maybe she's just going so much or has such urgency she doesn't make it to the box?

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59 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

OH! Hmm....well, the other side effect of steroids is increased drinking and increased urination.....maybe she's just going so much or has such urgency she doesn't make it to the box?

the thing is: she goes to the box. Sometimes she pees in it. Sometimes she walks behind it and pees on the floor. Sometimes she poops in the box and then goes out to pee on the floor.
She does not reject the box outright. She does not have trouble reaching the box. She is not confused about the purpose of the box. She just sometimes chooses to pee on the floor for reasons I cannot figure out.

Edited by regentrude
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  • regentrude changed the title to My cat is peeing on the floor - new UPDATE in OP
7 minutes ago, Terabith said:

What happens if you confine her to a very small area, like a bathroom, with a litter box and food/ water?  At 22, I'm wondering about dementia.  

she will make a racket and cry so loud that we won't get any peace. Tried that when she had an injury a few years ago and the vet recommended confinement to limit movement. It lasted an hour.

Also, one of her favorite places to pee is in that bathroom where the litterboxes are- but behind the box and preferably into the heating vent. Right now at least she mostly pees on the level kitchen floor (since we covered that vent with a tray on which we are putting her food dish). the vent is way way worse.

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3 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

At 22, with no easy way to give her pills and with the efforts you’ve made, and considering her other health issues, I’d be at peace with helping her on to the rainbow bridge. 
 

The thing is, she has no other health issues aside from mild arthritis. Vet is always surprised how healthy she is.
If she were ill and suffering, I'd have no problem with calling it good. It just feels so wrong to do so because she inconveniences me.

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1 minute ago, popmom said:

Have you heard of Feliway? Our vet recommends it. We used it for awhile when our daughter's cat came to live with us. The cats that were already here starting peeing in my dryer and the new cat was peeing outside her box. I do think the Feliway helped.

thanks, never heard of that. we didn't have any outside stressors, no change in household dynamic, no extra pets, no extra people. I will look into this.

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On 11/30/2020 at 4:23 PM, regentrude said:

the thing is: she goes to the box. Sometimes she pees in it. Sometimes she walks behind it and pees on the floor. Sometimes she poops in the box and then goes out to pee on the floor.
She does not reject the box outright. She does not have trouble reaching the box. She is not confused about the purpose of the box. She just sometimes chooses to pee on the floor for reasons I cannot figure out.

At this point, I have nothing but sympathy. It seems like you've tried a lot of things. I about lost my mind when we were going through this (except it was the couch and not the floor). 

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5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

thanks, never heard of that. we didn't have any outside stressors, no change in household dynamic, no extra pets, no extra people. I will look into this.

Seems like she's distressed in some way--maybe something neurological. Maybe the calming effect would help some. idk Couldn't hurt to try. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Your a good cat mom.

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8 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Sorry, I misunderstood the degree of arthritis + needing steroid shots for an irritated stomach.

yeah, both are minor. Right now, she eats a ton (without puking, knock on wood.) Eating seems like her one big joy in life.

Edited by regentrude
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I am sorry you are still dealing with this.  And, I am sorry to have no suggestions.  You are being a responsible owner to your sweet kitty.  How much will be asked of you?  How much is too much?  I know there is no pet problem yet that I have experienced that strikes fear in me quite like finding a cat peeing in the wrong place.  But, I have never had this level.  May it resolve in some way soon!!

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Oh man.  I love my cats, but I think I would reach my breaking point dealing with that much cat pee, and I speak as someone who had a cat that urinated IN the litter box but whose pee never stayed inside of it, and our house had subflooring stained and, well, I miss that cat of my heart, but it was SO MUCH of a relief when she died (at 19.5), because the cat pee issue was a source of constant stress.  

Has she ever been outside?  What is your climate like?  Is she declawed?  I'd seriously experiment with a heated cat house and time outdoors.  

I'd definitely try Feliway.  It sounds like hookum, but we did find it really helpful.  

I would be hard pressed to euthanize over this, but I would consider it.  Does the vet have any ideas?  Have you tried litter boxes in other locations?  

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15 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Has she ever been outside?  What is your climate like?  Is she declawed?  I'd seriously experiment with a heated cat house and time outdoors.  

I'd definitely try Feliway.  It sounds like hookum, but we did find it really helpful.  

I would be hard pressed to euthanize over this, but I would consider it.  Does the vet have any ideas?  Have you tried litter boxes in other locations?  

she is an indoor/outdoor, and outside all summer, but winter is cold. around freezing at night now, but will get colder. Not declawed.
Vet had no suggestions.
There really is no other good place for the litter box

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34 minutes ago, regentrude said:

she is an indoor/outdoor, and outside all summer, but winter is cold. around freezing at night now, but will get colder. Not declawed.
Vet had no suggestions.
There really is no other good place for the litter box

So, I know about there not being good places for litter boxes, but with my elderly cat who kept peeing on the floor, we found it was better to put litter boxes in bad places, because she would pee in those places anyway.  Which led to litter boxes in places like the precise middle of the living room and in the dining room, which was awkward, because when that cat died, we've been unable to move them because the other stupid cat couldn't figure out moving of litter boxes.  But plopping litter boxes where she kept going to pee anyway did stop the pee on the floor.  Might not work, but could be worth trialing?

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17 minutes ago, Terabith said:

So, I know about there not being good places for litter boxes, but with my elderly cat who kept peeing on the floor, we found it was better to put litter boxes in bad places, because she would pee in those places anyway.  Which led to litter boxes in places like the precise middle of the living room and in the dining room, which was awkward, because when that cat died, we've been unable to move them because the other stupid cat couldn't figure out moving of litter boxes.  But plopping litter boxes where she kept going to pee anyway did stop the pee on the floor.  Might not work, but could be worth trialing?

She pees within 1 or 2 feet of the litter box. That is all tile floor, which I can clean. Better than moving the box onto the hardwood floor that would be ruined by the cat pee.

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6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

She pees within 1 or 2 feet of the litter box. That is all tile floor, which I can clean. Better than moving the box onto the hardwood floor that would be ruined by the cat pee.

Yeah, that's true.  

I'm so sorry.  That is awful.  I'd seriously consider a heated cat bed and encouraging her to spend at least days outdoors, even in the cold?  

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53 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Which led to litter boxes in places like the precise middle of the living room and in the dining room, which was awkward, because when that cat died, we've been unable to move them because the other stupid cat couldn't figure out moving of litter boxes.

I am sorry because I'm sure it was/is super annoying to you, but this made me laugh.  

OP, I have nothing to offer but sympathy.  What a difficult situation.

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3 hours ago, regentrude said:

yeah, both are minor. Right now, she eats a ton (without puking, knock on wood.) Eating seems like her one big joy in life.

I missed if you already mentioned it but have you checked thyroid?  Just because you mentioned she has a huge appetite and that can be a thyroid thing and also incontinence can be.

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1 hour ago, Terabith said:

So, I know about there not being good places for litter boxes, but with my elderly cat who kept peeing on the floor, we found it was better to put litter boxes in bad places, because she would pee in those places anyway.  Which led to litter boxes in places like the precise middle of the living room and in the dining room, which was awkward, because when that cat died, we've been unable to move them because the other stupid cat couldn't figure out moving of litter boxes.  But plopping litter boxes where she kept going to pee anyway did stop the pee on the floor.  Might not work, but could be worth trialing?

Lol I have a story like this.  One day in a mad rush to do something I tripped over the litter box knocking litter all down the drain.  Resulting in a drain that needed unblocking.  So we decided we would remove the litter box from the room with the drain into the living area.  Of course then every time Dh would have breakfast the cat would come and use the litter box right in sight and smell of the dining room table.  And no matter where else we tried she would never use a box anywhere else after that.

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On 11/23/2020 at 7:06 AM, regentrude said:

And I am so done cleaning up several times a day. 

22 year old cat. Not incontinent- she deliberately pees in front of her litter box and in the air vents.

Had her checked out by the vet. Bloodwork,  urine analysis. No UTI, no kidney disease, super healthy despite her age. She has enough mobility to jump on chairs,  so getting in the box is not the problem. 

Same litter as for the past years. No new pets in the home.

I am sick of my day beginning with cat pee and the smell ( Yes, I know about enzyme cleaners). I would like to be able to be away overnight- I can't ask anybody to catsit with this mess.

Anything I can do? She's an indoor/outdoor,  but with winter, leaving her outside seems cruel. 

UPDATE:
Following y'all's suggestions, I bought new litter box. Cut out a low entry. Cat goes in the box a few times a day and also pees on the floor next to the box (or in the middle of the hallway floor) several times a day, and always first thing in the morning - she wakes me up at 4:45am and I start my day with cleaning up cat pee. HELP!!!

NEW update:

Cat attract litter does not attract the cat. Today she peed on the floor six times. 

I'm so sorry you're still dealing with this. I'd be pretty desperate by this point and might try replacing her litter box with one of these trays filled with litter. One that's big enough to cover the area she's been peeing.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-36-in-rabbit-tray-2109v0010?cm_vc=-10005

And if you haven't already, I'd try putting a small  in the hall. It would be a long shot, but there's nothing to lose by trying.

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I think checking her thyroid, if it hasn't already been done, is a very good idea. Something tells me that something is off with your cat physically, no matter what your vet says. Peeing six times a day is definitely on the high end of normal, and maybe totally abnormal. IME with cats, even elderly ones with kidney disease, it seems high. In your shoes I'd want a second opinion from another vet, I think.

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I think we have the same cat😏. Our cat struggles sound very much like your own. We tried all the things you have tried without much success. The vet had us try liquid rx calming meds and said they help about 50% of her patients. It did not help our kitty. We were ready to have her put down the problem was so stressful. What we have done instead is to get a catio to allow her to be outside as much as possible. (Sometimes all the daylight hours). She had two fans on her in the summer and a pet heating pad and blanket cover for colder weather. Ours is on a covered patio so it is protected from rain, wind etc. Giving her outdoor time reduced the peeing significantly!  (She has water and a small box out there but has never had an accident in her catio). If she is not in her catio, she is in the master bathroom with the largest open-top litter box we could find. (Not ideal, but our best tiled space). She is allowed in the house basically only if she is on our laps. Since we homeschool and are home most of the time, this allows her some daily snuggle time. She is NEVER allowed to freely roam the house anymore. EVER!  She sleeps in the master bathroom every night. I feed her at night in the bathroom so she has a full tummy and sleeps well. She does occasionally pee in front of her box. It seems if I put a puppy pad under and in front of the box, she is more likely to just pee in front of the box🤷‍♀️.  She still pees in front of the box about once every 2 weeks but that is a HUGE improvement.  

 

While the catio and bathroom isolation have greatly improved our situation, I too stress over the idea of being gone from the house. When my mil passed away in Sept and we went out of state for her services (were gone 5 days), my parents drove 9 hours to come pet sit for us. My elderly kitty did great with them and did not pee inappropriately once. We are supposed to be gone on a winter vacation in late January and my parents can’t come pet sit. I am hoping to have a college student come stay at our house but feel super stressed that kitty is going to get upset and pee on the floor. Sigh 😔 

Best wishes to you and your senior kitty. 

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Replying again to add that since your kitty goes outside freely (ours used to), I would definitely buy or build a catio or insulated cat house for daytime outdoor comfort. If you don’t want to isolate in a bathroom like we did, I wouldn’t hesitate to put her in a large dog crate in the garage at night. The big crates have room for a box and plenty on space left for sleeping. We did this with a different cat years ago. The dog crates are so tall, we even built an elevated platform bed with scrap lumber. 
 

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Thanks all.

The area where she likes to pee is in front of tha laundry room and in front of the door that leads from the kitchen to the garage.Right now  I try covering that with lots and lots of puppy pads. A huge litter tray in that location would really not work because we have to get in and out through these areas.

If it is thyroid, what would the solution be for a cat who can't be pilled?

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7 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Thanks all.

The area where she likes to pee is in front of tha laundry room and in front of the door that leads from the kitchen to the garage.Right now  I try covering that with lots and lots of puppy pads. A huge litter tray in that location would really not work because we have to get in and out through these areas.

If it is thyroid, what would the solution be for a cat who can't be pilled?

Would she eat it crushed in canned food or in chicken baby food? I had a cat I couldn't pill but he never turned down a meal.

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2 minutes ago, Pippen said:

Would she eat it crushed in canned food or in chicken baby food? I had a cat I couldn't pill but he never turned down a meal.

I did that once, and from that day she would not touch wet food for a decade. Might try again, maybe she's senile enough not to notice

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3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

Peeing six times a day is definitely on the high end of normal, and maybe totally abnormal. 

Really? I had no idea. I think she pees at least six times, probably more. But she also eats and drinks so much.

I am wondering whether she has some behavioral thing going on. She ate dry foor for 15 years and always had food freely available. Lately,( I  think because her teeth are bad) she ate less and less and lost weight and started begging at the table. Which is how we found that she now eats wet food.

And she eats and eats, as if making up for lost time. If I let her, she will eat three times the recommended amount! It's as if she's eating out of boredom. She waits by her bowl sooo long before giving up. Eat, sleep, pee, repeat.

She is not overweight, under 6 lbs.

Edited by regentrude
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She is really pretty. 

I am certainly not a cat expert but her behavior is not normal for a cat and indicates some distress of some kind to me. It really does sound like you will have to just live with it until she dies which obviously won’t be too much longer.  
 

When my Brittany got sick at age 12 I was so torn up....we could not get her well, and when we had to hold her back end up so she could pee I knew it was time to let her go.  That last morning when we were planning to take her in to the vet she woke me up crying.....she was on her  bed and I had put her water bowl about a foot away but she couldn’t get to it.  I had to put it under her chin.  It was as if she was telling me, see how sick I am?  I cried for weeks and I can start crying right now if I think about it too long.  That was 4 years ago.  It took me 3 years to even begin to think about getting another dog.  Now of course we have this goofball.

FBCB2127-55B8-4A16-9A6C-2E7C3C066FF4.jpeg

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2 hours ago, regentrude said:

Thanks all.

The area where she likes to pee is in front of tha laundry room and in front of the door that leads from the kitchen to the garage.Right now  I try covering that with lots and lots of puppy pads. A huge litter tray in that location would really not work because we have to get in and out through these areas.

If it is thyroid, what would the solution be for a cat who can't be pilled?

You can get meds compounded into transdermal creams that are placed in the cat's ear. If she's willing to be held, that can work well. We've done it for thyroid, for chemotherapy meds, and currently, for anxiety meds (for different cats) It does take a compounding pharmacy, though. 

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1 hour ago, Dmmetler said:

You can get meds compounded into transdermal creams that are placed in the cat's ear. If she's willing to be held, that can work well. We've done it for thyroid, for chemotherapy meds, and currently, for anxiety meds (for different cats) It does take a compounding pharmacy, though. 

Yes, we do this for one of our cats. We don't hold her unless she won't sit still. We usually just sit next to her, give her some pets, rub the medicine in her ear, give her more pets. Occasionally she's cranky and we have to hold her, but I wouldn't start with that.

regentrude, this is sounding more and more like thyroid. Our cat didn't have the pee issues (that was a completely different cat, sigh), but the voracious eating without gaining weight . . . yeah, I can't imagine what else it would be. On the good side, it's pretty cheap and easy to treat. It's not usually hard to find a compounding pharmacy; you may not have one right in town, but I doubt it's too far, because humans need compounded meds too. And the cream lasts a good while, so you don't have to constantly go. 

I hope you can get her in and I hope it's thyroid! She's a very pretty girl. 

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17 hours ago, regentrude said:

The thing is, she has no other health issues aside from mild arthritis. Vet is always surprised how healthy she is.
If she were ill and suffering, I'd have no problem with calling it good. It just feels so wrong to do so because she inconveniences me.

I know you've said she's healthy - but I'm wondering if there is something there the vet missed.   Granted I'm a novice with cats - but one of the cat guru's I've followed said cats will mask/hide not feeling well.   something must be going on that everyone is missing.

eta: just to add, especially considering her age.

Edited by gardenmom5
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3 hours ago, regentrude said:

It's not polite to talk about her behind her back, so at least here's a picture. This is Cricket.

cricket wtm.jpg

Oh my, Cricket is so beautiful! I love her coloring and stripes. My girl Maggie is on thyroid medicine, and it's a cream that I rub in her ear twice a day. 

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Eating/drinking tons does sound like a possible thyroid problem.  My kitty was skin and bones, eating tons, until a vet finally diagnosed him.  He also was a frequent floor pee-er. 

We did the transdermal medicine and rubbed it in his ears.  He tolerated it fine, although I wouldn't say he was thrilled with me.  He lived to the ripe old age of 27, and the floor peeing improved.  I could tell when he needed a med adjustment because he would stop using the litter box.

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3 minutes ago, medawyn said:

Eating/drinking tons does sound like a possible thyroid problem.  My kitty was skin and bones, eating tons, until a vet finally diagnosed him.  He also was a frequent floor pee-er. 

We did the transdermal medicine and rubbed it in his ears.  He tolerated it fine, although I wouldn't say he was thrilled with me.  He lived to the ripe old age of 27, and the floor peeing improved.  I could tell when he needed a med adjustment because he would stop using the litter box.

Thanks for sharing. I will call the vet on Monday and ask about that.

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Your kitty is beautiful and I'm sorry you're going through this. 😞  I don't have any medical advice, but since you mentioned using puppy pads, I really like these charcoal pads. My 9 yr old dog will often not go outside when it's cold or raining, so I use these in the laundry room. I could not bring myself to put an elderly pet outside in the winter, even with a heated house, I would just keep using puppy pads to make clean-up as easy (and odorless) as possible.

 

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8 hours ago, regentrude said:

Thanks all.

The area where she likes to pee is in front of tha laundry room and in front of the door that leads from the kitchen to the garage.Right now  I try covering that with lots and lots of puppy pads. A huge litter tray in that location would really not work because we have to get in and out through these areas.

If it is thyroid, what would the solution be for a cat who can't be pilled?

My neighbours cat had thyroid issues which is why I thought of it.  There was a monthly pill option but she said there was also a single once of option that’s a complete fix.  Maybe an injection or some kind from memory.  It wasn’t cheap but she decided it was easier than doing the monthly medication.  
 

her cat was quite a lot younger - around 12 I think.  Apparently thyroid problems are becoming more common in cats and it’s not really known why.  

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Sorry can’t get rid of the weird font.  This is what our neighbours cat had - I remember her saying her cat was radioactive .  I think it’s worked ok so far but was only a couple of months ago.

Radioactive Iodine Therapy 

This is quickly becoming the treatment of choice in areas where it is available, and where caregivers can afford it. A single injection of radioactive iodine (I-131) is given subcutaneously. The substance "finds" and destroys all diseased tissue, including any ectopic (outside the normal area) thyroid cells without harming any normal tissue. The cat must remain in the veterinary hospital for five days to two weeks (depending on state laws) until its radioactive levels are deemed acceptable. Caregivers may be able to visit during that time, but will only be able to view their kitty through a special leaded window.

 

The cat is also given the anti-thyroid medication for at least 15 days prior to treatment with I-131. As with the surgical option, a cat with hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, kidney disease, diabetes, or any other serious condition is not a candidate for radioactive iodine therapy.

 

Advantages

 
  • It provides a permanent cure in 95 percent of cases.
  • It minimizes the stress to the cat.
  • There are no serious side effects and the procedure is very safe.
 

Disadvantages

 
  • It's expensive as it costs about the same as surgery.
  • The cat must be in otherwise good health prior to treatment.
  • The subsequent development of hypothyroidism is a possibility (can be treated with thyroid supplementation.)

 

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1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said:

The cat must remain in the veterinary hospital for five days to two weeks (depending on state laws) until its radioactive levels are deemed acceptable. 

Thank you. This sounds very interesting, but at her age, I will not put my cat through this kind of trauma. She has never even been kenneled.

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28 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Thank you. This sounds very interesting, but at her age, I will not put my cat through this kind of trauma. She has never even been kenneled.

I totally understand.  Part of the reason we didn’t go ahead with treatment for snakebite for our older cat.  Sometimes it’s just not the kindest thing.  My sis cat also had thyroid and at eighteen she also decided to manage as best as she could for as long as the cat was comfy.

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