Living in a Covid Hotspot

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

Unfortunately, you are probably correct.  I had an exam in a junior/senior level finance class a few years ago that read something like "which of the following would be a prudent investment for someone who is retired and can take little risk with their investment portfolio."  I had a student come up and ask me what the word prudent meant--then a second, then a third.  I looked back to see if I had spelled it incorrectly or if there was some other problem with the question.  Even in the context of the question (and I KNOW I had used the word in class before), college students could not determine what it meant (and the answer should have been obvious even without the word prudent in the question).  

yikes

And yet, not surprising. 

Like I said, I'd love if if some of those churches pushing for "freedom" to avoid masks would spend a bit of time focusing on prudence and wisdom. 

[Lecka]

I went to school with two sisters named Charity and Prudence — what a great witness from their parents!  

[Lecka]

Also I can identify Prudential as an investment firm from football game commercials 😉

[happi duck]

I just saw footage of O'Hare airport packed for the holidays.  Apparently it hasn't looked like that since pre covid.  Ugh.

I'm skipping grocery shopping because of crowds.  I can't believe people are traveling!

[Lecka]

My sister’s town that was having 50 cases in a week, that had 30 cases in a day a few days ago, had 75 cases today!

And she said there is a big anti-mask rally scheduled for tonight!

She is worried about going into Wal-Mart to pick up a prescription, now.  

[kbutton]

Anybody else hearing in their head, "Wouldn't be prudent at this juncture."?

 

[Starr]

2 hours ago, Lecka said:

She is worried about going into Wal-Mart to pick up a prescription, now.  

A friend of mine says go to Walmart at 7:00 AM Sunday morning and you will be alone.

[Terabith]

7 minutes ago, Starr said:

A friend of mine says go to Walmart at 7:00 AM Sunday morning and you will be alone.

Yeah, but the pharmacy isn't open then.  

[lewelma]

We are still hoping ds can get back to NZ for the summer before all hell breaks loose in the USA. His flight leaves in a week and we cannot move it forward because he is locked into his quarantine allocation date in the military run facility. 

[Starr]

17 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We are still hoping ds can get back to NZ for the summer before all hell breaks loose in the USA. His flight leaves in a week and we cannot move it forward because he is locked into his quarantine allocation date in the military run facility. 

I really hope that all works out! It will take a bit for the Thanksgiving cases to show positive so fingers crossed and prayers said.

[Pam in CT]

30 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We are still hoping ds can get back to NZ for the summer before all hell breaks loose in the USA. His flight leaves in a week and we cannot move it forward because he is locked into his quarantine allocation date in the military run facility. 

Hoping it works. I remember the lengths to which he and all your family have taken to enable him to be here this term, and return now.

[lewelma]

7 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

Hoping it works. I remember the lengths to which he and all your family have taken to enable him to be here this term, and return now.

It has been difficult, and we have to pay $3300 for quarantine on top of the flight costs. But it will be so good to have him back for 8 weeks in the summer in NZ that we decided it was worth it.  We are assuming he can handle the mental health issues associated with being basically locked in your hotel room for 2 weeks with only 1-hour-a-day, walk-in-a-circle, outside exercise in a parking lot if you book it. He doesn't seem too worried, but others have said it has been hard. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by lewelma

[lewelma]

20 minutes ago, Starr said:

I really hope that all works out! It will take a bit for the Thanksgiving cases to show positive so fingers crossed and prayers said.

He has a direct flight across the country and has an N95 mask and goggles, so hoping he doesn't get it!

[Frances]

15 hours ago, ktgrok said:

I would bet the majority of the population have no idea what the word prudence means. It used to be such a common word that people named their children Prudence, but yeah....not so much anymore. I would love every church in the nation to do a nice topical bible study on that particular virtue right now!

Meanwhile our governor took away the power of the local governments, and now has made it illegal to enforce mask wearing. What is wrong with some of these people!!!???!?!

The irony of being a champion of local control except when you disagree with what they decide. The amount of hypocrisy exposed in government officials, churches, and individuals during 2020 is truly mind boggling. It’s surprising we haven’t added huge explosions due to unprecedented levels of built up cognitive dissonance to the list of disasters this year in the US.

[katilac]

51 minutes ago, lewelma said:

We are assuming he can handle the mental health issues associated with being basically locked in your hotel room for 2 weeks 

I guess I'm officially old, bc being locked in a hotel room for two weeks sounds pretty fabulous 😄

[YaelAldrich]

1 hour ago, lewelma said:

We are still hoping ds can get back to NZ for the summer before all hell breaks loose in the USA. His flight leaves in a week and we cannot move it forward because he is locked into his quarantine allocation date in the military run facility. 

Here's hoping he'll be fine. Boston/Cambridge is doing pretty good as long as he stays where he is . Numbers are higher in some neighborhoods but not where he is. Most Bostonians and Cantabrigians are complying with our rules. If he needs anything let me know!

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

Here's hoping he'll be fine. Boston/Cambridge is doing pretty good as long as he stays where he is . Numbers are higher in some neighborhoods but not where he is. Most Bostonians and Cantabrigians are complying with our rules. If he needs anything let me know!

Thanks for that! He and his flat mates are very very careful and have been self isolating in a pod of 5 for the past 3 months. 

[Junie]

7 hours ago, lewelma said:

Thanks for that! He and his flat mates are very very careful and have been self isolating in a pod of 5 for the past 3 months. 

:)

My brain flipped the prepositions as I read this, so I thought it said "for 5 of the past 3 months".  And I thought, that is really some next-level math that they are accomplishing up there!

[historically accurate]

11 hours ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, but the pharmacy isn't open then.  

Ours will run a prescription out for curbside delivery. You have to call the store and set it up because they only do it for a few hours a day. Maybe have her call? 

[Pam in CT]

re challenges of quarantine

10 hours ago, lewelma said:

It has been difficult, and we have to pay $3300 for quarantine on top of the flight costs. But it will be so good to have him back for 8 weeks in the summer in NZ that we decided it was worth it.  We are assuming he can handle the mental health issues associated with being basically locked in your hotel room for 2 weeks with only 1-hour-a-day, walk-in-a-circle, outside exercise in a parking lot if you book it. He doesn't seem too worried, but others have said it has been hard. 

 

9 hours ago, katilac said:

I guess I'm officially old, bc being locked in a hotel room for two weeks sounds pretty fabulous 😄

I quarantined after working elections in our in-law apartment - 4 days until I got tested, then 4 more days waiting for results. There were aspects of it that were strangely comforting -- it started to register as a physical manifestation of all the weirdness of the last eight months, as if living in my isolation tank started to register as a kind of incarnation that helped me process everything.

But. I had free access to my yard and lawn chair and patio heater whenever I wanted; and I did it with my dog, which made all the difference.  (I started talking to him in full paragraphs, as I did when my kids were babies...)  Without both of those outlets it would have been very hard.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Junie said:

:)

My brain flipped the prepositions as I read this, so I thought it said "for 5 of the past 3 months".  And I thought, that is really some next-level math that they are accomplishing up there!

Well, they're a math-y bunch; if anyone can do it it'd be this lot.

 

re WalMart prescriptions

11 minutes ago, historically accurate said:

Ours will run a prescription out for curbside delivery. You have to call the store and set it up because they only do it for a few hours a day. Maybe have her call? 

Ours does this as well (as does our CVS).  Our CVS will also deliver for a $10 fee, but the curbside for them and for WM are free.

[lewelma]

4 hours ago, Pam in CT said:

But. I had free access to my yard and lawn chair and patio heater whenever I wanted; and I did it with my dog, which made all the difference.  (I started talking to him in full paragraphs, as I did when my kids were babies...)  Without both of those outlets it would have been very hard.

I think what is hard about this is the forced component. He will be under both police and military guard, so he can't change his mind.  Once he is in, he is in for 14 days. And if he ends up testing positive for Covid and is moved to the stricter facility, he is not allowed outside of his room ever - not for exercise and not for fresh air. 

[Not_a_Number]

13 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I think what is hard about this is the forced component. He will be under both police and military guard, so he can't change his mind.  Once he is in, he is in for 14 days. And if he ends up testing positive for Covid and is moved to the stricter facility, he is not allowed outside of his room ever - not for exercise and not for fresh air. 

That's rough! I hope he manages it OK. 

[Pam in CT]

re choosing quarantine vs having quarantine imposed upon you

56 minutes ago, lewelma said:

I think what is hard about this is the forced component. He will be under both police and military guard, so he can't change his mind.  Once he is in, he is in for 14 days. And if he ends up testing positive for Covid and is moved to the stricter facility, he is not allowed outside of his room ever - not for exercise and not for fresh air. 

Yeah, that makes a real difference.

My youngest did 14 days quarantining in our in-law apartment over the summer, after deciding to participate in BLM protests. But like me and my decision to work at the elections, that was a CHOICE, doing this is worth the cost of that.  (And again, she had unfettered access to yard, outdoor furniture, and dog.) 

I'm sure it's much harder when it's imposed upon you, and enforced, just as the price for coming home.

 

OTOH your home is safe, as ours is, patently, not.  Everything's a tradeoff.

[Lecka]

It does sound stressful to me!

I am going to mention to my sister, she might be able to do curbside pharmacy pick-up.  I had never heard of that!  I hope it is available where she lives 🙂.

Well — I don’t know firsthand, I am looking at Facebook, but apparently there was an indoor concert holding 2,500, last week, that had little masking or social distancing but was acceptable because the capacity was 5,000 and they did do 50% capacity.

Also there was a big football game yesterday here and apparently people saw a lot of crowding with people watching the game near campus.  That is hard to know, but — usually these games are big events, and our team won by a huge amount, so it makes sense people would celebrate!  
 

My husband also said he saw the most unmasked families ever at Wal-Mart today.... he was very disappointed.  Our town has a mask mandate but it is not enforced.  

[Lecka]

I think even if it is worth it or reasonable, it is still a stressful thing.  I hate being in a hotel, personally.  It’s good when things are a good thing to do, but they can definitely be stressful or hard, too.  
 

I think it is a hard age for it, too.  I think I would have a lot easier time now than I would have when I was in that age group!  Just — so many things are different for me now, that I think would make it easier, but I think it would have been very, very hard for me when I was younger.  

Edited November 22, 2020 by Lecka

[Lecka]

I really hope it goes well for him — as well as possible.  
 

It is not easy for a parent, either, when a child has to do something like this!

[lewelma]

Thanks guys for all your concern.  He will be in quarantine for the last 2 weeks of classes, so he will be crazy busy.  And thank goodness for modern communications.  Although he can only physically see the nurse every day, he will be able to see the rest of us through his phone/computer.  Definitely a tradeoff for the 70,000 returnees, but a clear choice for the other 5 million of us. We are currently averaging around 1-2% of returnees testing positive.

Edited November 22, 2020 by lewelma

[Not_a_Number]

25 minutes ago, lewelma said:

Thanks guys for all your concern.  He will be in quarantine for the last 2 weeks of classes, so he will be crazy busy.  And thank goodness for modern communications.  Although he can only physically see the nurse every day, he will be able to see the rest of us through his phone/computer.  Definitely a tradeoff for the 70,000 returnees, but a clear choice for the other 5 million of us. We are currently averaging around 1-2% of returnees testing positive.

I would totally take this trade off, lol. And after all, people don't HAVE to go home. If they want, they can stay in our lovely COVID-infested country with spiking cases, where you have to pretty much quarantine as a condition of daily life... 

... what do you mean, I sound bitter? 😉 I'm joy itself, I tell you!! 😛 

[mom2scouts]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:36 PM, cintinative said:

Not recently, unfortunately. Our numbers are skyrocketing. Over 8000 cases today and that is with thousands of antigen test results still pending review.  

Yes, one of the hospital presidents said, "Our world's on fire," and says they are preparing for a mass casualty event (extra staff, mobile morgues, rationing care, shutting down all elective procedures) and opening new covid wings. The media is reporting ICUs at 90%, but my sister works at a hospital and says it's 100%, but they're moving non-Covid patients to other hospitals when they can to open up more Covid beds.

DH was going to go to the store today, but came home after he saw how packed they were. Too many people just don't seem to care.

[Starr]

5 hours ago, lewelma said:

Thanks guys for all your concern.  He will be in quarantine for the last 2 weeks of classes, so he will be crazy busy.  And thank goodness for modern communications.  Although he can only physically see the nurse every day, he will be able to see the rest of us through his phone/computer.  Definitely a tradeoff for the 70,000 returnees, but a clear choice for the other 5 million of us. We are currently averaging around 1-2% of returnees testing positive.

He will be fine just counting the days until he gets to return to  home as he remembers it. What a blessing!

[Pen]

8 hours ago, lewelma said:

I think what is hard about this is the forced component. He will be under both police and military guard, so he can't change his mind.  Once he is in, he is in for 14 days. And if he ends up testing positive for Covid and is moved to the stricter facility, he is not allowed outside of his room ever - not for exercise and not for fresh air. 

If he were to test positive, how long is he kept in the stricter facility (assuming just a positive test, no sickness)? 
 

 

[JennyD]

6 hours ago, lewelma said:

And thank goodness for modern communications.  

Some months ago in response to an exposure my 15-year-old DS had to spend 14 days isolated in a bedroom, leaving only to go to the bathroom.  Modern communications made all the difference in the world. 

The isolation wasn't fun but the real psychic toll was anxiety over possibly having contracted the virus/passed it on to others.  He actually felt better as the days went on and he tested negative and stayed healthy (thank G-d). 

[lewelma]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

If he were to test positive, how long is he kept in the stricter facility (assuming just a positive test, no sickness)? 
 

 

He has to do 14 days minimum, and then must be 48 hours with no symptoms and return a negative test in order to leave.  So it really depends.  Transmission within the facility, however, has been limited to 3 nurses, one Defense Force person, and 2 maintenance people. I don't remember any transmission between residents in the past 6 months. So the latest he could get it would be on the airplane and he is still likely to be out in 14 days. 

Basically, the less strict facility contains 1-2% of people with unknown covid for the first 3 days until the first test is done and they move people to the stricter facility. Then the covid numbers in the less strict facility would be very very low for days 4-14.  The strict facility has 100% covid positive people so is really locked down. 

[ktgrok]

Regarding pharmacy stuff - check for a drive through pharmacy in her area. Here there are some walgreens with drive through lanes. Not all, usually it is the ones that have a 24 hr pharmacy. If there is one in her area she can call and transfer the prescription. I do the drive through for all our meds and the pharmacy tech is masked as am I, and there is some outdoor breeze, etc. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by ktgrok

[Selkie]

Our Walmart has several parking spots designated for pharmacy pickup. You just call the number on the sign and they bring it right out.

[Pam in CT]

2 hours ago, Selkie said:

Our Walmart has several parking spots designated for pharmacy pickup. You just call the number on the sign and they bring it right out.

Ours too. It's *possible* the curbside hours are a bit more limited than the store hours (? not sure the pharmacy is even open inside the full 7a-11p that the store itself is open), but that's essentially the system.  Save for CVS.

[mommyoffive]

Just got this in a Kiplingers email

Is it possible for a state to gain immunity to COVID-19 without a vaccine? A few may soon find out. Especially N.D. and S.D., where 10% and 8%, respectively, of their populations have tested positive previously, but many mild cases have gone unreported. As a result, parts of the population may have achieved herd immunity, the point where enough folks have been infected and recovered that the spread slows. It’s thought that when roughly 60% to 70% of a population gets sick and recovers, their antibodies prevent the virus from circulating much more. That is not the way that most communities would probably want to beat the virus, but it may happen. And while it’s too early to tell, the Dakotas are seeing a slowdown in new infections. Iowa and Wis. may also be approaching a key threshold for herd immunity. More than 6% of their populations have tested positive, but again, that is likely an undercount. And new cases are slowing down.

[EmilyGF]

14 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Just got this in a Kiplingers email

Is it possible for a state to gain immunity to COVID-19 without a vaccine? A few may soon find out. Especially N.D. and S.D., where 10% and 8%, respectively, of their populations have tested positive previously, but many mild cases have gone unreported. As a result, parts of the population may have achieved herd immunity, the point where enough folks have been infected and recovered that the spread slows. It’s thought that when roughly 60% to 70% of a population gets sick and recovers, their antibodies prevent the virus from circulating much more. That is not the way that most communities would probably want to beat the virus, but it may happen. And while it’s too early to tell, the Dakotas are seeing a slowdown in new infections. Iowa and Wis. may also be approaching a key threshold for herd immunity. More than 6% of their populations have tested positive, but again, that is likely an undercount. And new cases are slowing down.

No go in Sweden so far with herd immunity.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/herd-immunity-not-stopping-coronavirus-spread-sweden

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-24/sweden-says-it-sees-no-signs-herd-immunity-is-stopping-the-virus

[Not_a_Number]

28 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

A few may soon find out. Especially N.D. and S.D., where 10% and 8%, respectively, of their populations have tested positive previously, but many mild cases have gone unreported

Is this actually unique individuals that have tested positive, or the total number of cases they've counted so far? 

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Is this actually unique individuals that have tested positive, or the total number of cases they've counted so far? 

Not sure, what I posted was the entire thing. 

[mommyoffive]

1 hour ago, EmilyGF said:

No go in Sweden so far with herd immunity.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/herd-immunity-not-stopping-coronavirus-spread-sweden

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-24/sweden-says-it-sees-no-signs-herd-immunity-is-stopping-the-virus

Yeah, I thought of too.  Not sure why it would be any different here than there. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, mommyoffive said:

Not sure, what I posted was the entire thing. 

I just wonder what percent has actually been sick, if that includes a lot of double counting... we aren't always good at unique individuals vs. retests. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[kbutton]

I'm really disgusted that people are conflating safeguards, such as being able to report your employer/doctor/store owner for non-compliance with masking, with being a snitch. Our governor has stated over and over that people have a right to insist on being in a safe environment, especially at work, and this crap is showing up in my FB feed from a local person (and other memes like it from elsewhere😞

The same person who posted this has been agitating (not on her page, but in replies on lots of pages) to strip our officials of their emergency powers. This effort actually passed our legislature, and it might be veto-proof.

Meanwhile, we now have four purple counties (highest level of alert), and numerous other counties meet purple criteria, but they won't be designated as such until the numbers stay that way for two weeks. We've had more than 10,000 cases today for at least the second time. Last I knew, we had a backlog of antigen test results (some kind of double-checking/verification happens with those), though I can't find an answer easily about if those have been cleared. Some of the daily totals are backlogs from specific health systems. 

https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/news/2020/11/23/covid-19-ohio-hospitals-capacity-dewine-update/6392454002/

Quote

As of Monday, 4,358 Ohioans remained hospitalized with COVID-19, including 1,079 in ICUs and 573 on ventilators, state data shows. Just over 75% of ICU beds were filled across Ohio on Monday.

“We have reached a defining moment in this pandemic as our hospitals in rural and metropolitan areas are aggressively managing capacity needs," John Palmer, spokesman for the Ohio Hospital Association, said via email. "This steep climb creates a severe strain on our caregivers who are braving the frontline of this pandemic."

 

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, Amoret said:

In WI, it is unique individuals. They are (supposedly) being very careful to check the data to make sure they are not counting people twice. WI is right around 1 in 20 confirmed individual cases.

They ought to do an antibody survey, like NY did, to get a better sense. 

[Corraleno]

55 minutes ago, kbutton said:

We've had more than 10,000 cases today for at least the second time. Last I knew, we had a backlog of antigen test results (some kind of double-checking/verification happens with those), though I can't find an answer easily about if those have been cleared. Some of the daily totals are backlogs from specific health systems. 

Do you know if there's also a backlog in reporting deaths, or just cases? Ohio had a record high number of deaths today, 156. ☹️

[kbutton]

2 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Do you know if there's also a backlog in reporting deaths, or just cases? Ohio had a record high number of deaths today, 156. ☹️

I think it's just cases. I guess the numbers are coming in irregularly-spaced from some health systems that can't process them fast enough, but the antigen tests are their own backlog separately, the best I can understand. 

It does make sense that the deaths could be coming in unevenly from the same health systems, but are not a backlog in the sense the antigen tests are.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Amoret said:

They did one two or three months ago, I think, but found that very few people had had it. I am sure it would be a very different picture now.

Yeah, I think you need a real wave for those antibody surveys to make sense. Last I calculated, the antibody surveys in California were likely to have more false positives than actual ones 😉 . It's a conditional probability issue when so few people have had it. 

[cintinative]

15 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Do you know if there's also a backlog in reporting deaths, or just cases? Ohio had a record high number of deaths today, 156. ☹️

I didn't notice it went up again. 😞 So I can tell you my understanding is that the deaths are not reported on the date of death necessarily, just date reported. So there is sometimes a delay in reporting that causes there to be higher days. Generally this happens after the weekend. So if we were to graph deaths by date of death, the data would look different.  That said, these numbers are way over our 21 day average which is 40, so that is indicative that we are seeing a real issue with deaths also. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by cintinative

[Happy2BaMom]

14 hours ago, kbutton said:

I'm really disgusted that people are conflating safeguards, such as being able to report your employer/doctor/store owner for non-compliance with masking, with being a snitch. ....

The same person who posted this has been agitating (not on her page, but in replies on lots of pages) to strip our officials of their emergency powers. This effort actually passed our legislature, and it might be veto-proof.

 

 

There is no fix for people who are belligerently ignorant. A *lot* of them have been voted in over the years, and it's not correctable at this point. Until more people start to notice & vote in more reasonable people (regardless of party affiliation), we will continue to waste time, money, energy, etc. on huge fights over things that ultimately damage public well-being. So it is.

[kbutton]

4 hours ago, Happy2BaMom said:

There is no fix for people who are belligerently ignorant. A *lot* of them have been voted in over the years, and it's not correctable at this point. Until more people start to notice & vote in more reasonable people (regardless of party affiliation), we will continue to waste time, money, energy, etc. on huge fights over things that ultimately damage public well-being. So it is.

The person that posted the annoying meme and agitating for limiting health order powers is not an elected official. 

I can take your point, separately. I wrote to my local representatives when they were considering the bill in question, and they voted for it anyway. When I saw they didn't care, I voted against the one that was running for re-election, and he still one by a huge margin.