It seems Europe didn't do any better

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Ah, the WSJ, a bastion of radial leftism... 

Exactly. That's why I always share this video with people who deny how bad Covid is. It's the most accurate depiction I've seen of what working in the ICU is like for Covid nurses. People just don't know because that haven't been allowed in hospitals to see what is happening. And they can't say it's a partisan hackjob because it's from the WSJ.

https://www.wsj.com/video/covid-chasers-the-nurses-fighting-coronavirus-from-hot-spot-to-hot-spot/E05FF3C1-0873-4AF9-ADA1-9F1CECE24065.html

[SereneHome]

10 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I posted an entire 10+ minute video showing exactly what was done in Taiwan that made them so successful. How can you say that you haven't seen any plans?

Here is another from the WSJ about the difference between Asia and the West. We know what to do. We just need the leadership to get us there.

https://www.wsj.com/video/why-east-asia-is-beating-the-west-in-controlling-coronavirus/ED49686C-2174-43BC-BA51-0B1F8BAACA78.html

We are not Taiwan. Our population and demographics is entirely different. Anything can be done on a smaller scale with a homogeneous population.

I can't comment on WSJ article bc I am not able to read it. If there are points there that would prove me wrong, I would love to see it

ETA: Never mind, I didn't realize it was just a video.

So.....arghhhhh......again....are you arguing that starting January 20th we should be testing everyone, making everyone wear masks and doing contact tracing? Bc even know - 7 months and over 200K deaths into this. there are plenty of people who don't want to do any of that.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread - I asked for "realistic for US" plan. this is not it!

 

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by SereneHome

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We are not Taiwan. Our population and demographics is entirely different. Anything can be done on a smaller scale with a homogeneous population.

I can't comment on WSJ article bc I am not able to read it. If there are points there that would prove me wrong, I would love to see it

Nothing is exactly like anything else. South Korea is 50 million people and very urban, for example. Are all those millions that homogeneous?

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

If there are points there that would prove me wrong, I would love to see it

As a thought experiment, what kind of data could prove you wrong? What would convince you?

[SeaConquest]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We are not Taiwan. Our population and demographics is entirely different. Anything can be done on a smaller scale with a homogeneous population.

I can't comment on WSJ article bc I am not able to read it. If there are points there that would prove me wrong, I would love to see it

We are a republic of 50 states, most of which have populations smaller than Taiwan. There is absolutely no reason why the federal government could not appropriately develop and fund what is being done in Taiwan, to be implemented on a statewide level. Instead of demonizing "anarchist" blue states and withholding federal funds from them, we could have all been working together towards a unified, national health policy that governors implement on a statewide, regional basis with their public health departments. But, that requires unity, consensus, and maturity -- something which appears to be in short supply in our government these days. Frankly, I'm tired of the excuses about why x, y, and z can't work here. Let's just admit that our leaders didn't have the will (or ability?) to execute a coherent national strategy and that's why we have failed.  

[SereneHome]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

As a thought experiment, what kind of data could prove you wrong? What would convince you?

I am very much a person who likes to understand the "why" behind things. I just don't understand why people are so convinced that this nightmare could have been prevented / done less damage in US. 

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. And I am not seeing anything that would convince me that here, in US, something could have been done.

 

[bookbard]

Can I be the first to mention that Europe isn't a country? Thank you.

There is massive variation on how well/badly countries across Europe have done. UK is the worst, and if you look at their policies, you'll see why. Others, such as Finland/Norway have done better.

There certainly is an element of chance when it comes to it suddenly spreading. In Melbourne, the second wave can be traced to the actions of one family in quarantine, who had a corrupt security guard who was infected. In Sydney, a security guard who was infected also did the wrong thing but for whatever reason, no one caught it from him. 

But once the spread happens, then action needs to be taken. I believe Ireland's gone into lockdown and a few other countries are going into stricter lockdown such as Germany. They have test and trace programs set up; from what I hear in the UK, it is far more disorganised.

So, to repeat - massive variation across Europe, with vastly different policies dependent on their leaders and governments. The one thing in common of course is that everyone is tired of it all. That doesn't help, as they go into winter. We feel very, very sorry for the people of the northern hemisphere right now, from our side of the world. 

[OH_Homeschooler]

20 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We are not Taiwan. Our population and demographics is entirely different. Anything can be done on a smaller scale with a homogeneous population.

I can't comment on WSJ article bc I am not able to read it. If there are points there that would prove me wrong, I would love to see it

ETA: Never mind, I didn't realize it was just a video.

So.....arghhhhh......again....are you arguing that starting January 20th we should be testing everyone, making everyone wear masks and doing contact tracing? Bc even know - 7 months and over 200K deaths into this. there are plenty of people who don't want to do any of that.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread - I asked for "realistic for US" plan. this is not it!

 

 

Aren't you the one who started this thread? Kinda seems like you should be checking in on it. 

It seems like no matter what someone suggests you are going to arbitrarily claim that it's not a good plan, it's not feasible. This is exactly the same problem I keep running into. People act like they have an open mind about ways to get the pandemic under control, but actually their minds were closed from day 1. 

[Frances]

44 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I have no idea what Trump's followers do. I do know that on here and on my other  SM places people are blaming Trump for handling this wrongly from the beginning. I think it's misguided, for the reasons I have stated repeatedly.

I actually think it's much much more important how it is being handled now and for the next 6 months. 

Anywhoooo, I don't think I have anything new to say at this point. I have not seen any plans or ideas that would make me reconsider my opinion. I keep seeing the same emotional sentiments that I have seen over the last 6 months....

How do you have no idea what Trump supporters do? Have you not seen pictures and videos of mandate and mask protests? Trump flags and signs and MAGA hats everywhere. When lawmakers and individuals are fighting and suing over mandates and masking are they Republicans or Democrats?

Was it doctored videos or tweets where Trump encouraged supporters in specific states to protest mandates? Where he said masking was voluntary and he likely wouldn’t do it? Where he rarely wore a mask to set an example? Where he mocked others for doing so? Where he publicly disagreed with federal health officials? Where he repeatedly spread misinformation about the pandemic?

It seems like you want reality to be a certain way despite all evidence to the contrary.

I’m not saying the general public would necessarily have followed the words and example of a science believing, unifying D president better. There likely would have been major rebellion on the right. But imagine a science believing, unifying, mature, empathetic, presidential R president, like basically any other in our lifetime. That could have made a huge difference in my opinion.

[Not_a_Number]

14 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I am very much a person who likes to understand the "why" behind things. I just don't understand why people are so convinced that this nightmare could have been prevented / done less damage in US. 

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. And I am not seeing anything that would convince me that here, in US, something could have been done.

OK, but I'm serious about my questions. What kind of data WOULD convince you? 

[SereneHome]

1 minute ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

Aren't you the one who started this thread? Kinda seems like you should be checking in on it. 

It seems like no matter what someone suggests you are going to arbitrarily claim that it's not a good plan, it's not feasible. This is exactly the same problem I keep running into. People act like they have an open mind about ways to get the pandemic under control, but actually their minds were closed from day 1. 

I know....but...it just seems very circular at this point

I very much have an open mind bc I am really interested in what could have been done differently. It's not like I have a moral belief or anything, I have  nothing to loose and everything to gain from understanding why people think they way they think.

So far I have seen three things - masking, testing and tracing. My argument is that none of those, even if done from day 1 (which is not even that realistic) would have had the same results as they did in Asia.

So, that's where I am. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SereneHome said:

So far I have seen three things - masking, testing and tracing. My argument is that none of those, even if done from day 1 (which is not even that realistic) would have had the same results as they did in Asia.

So, I think people have listed other things as well. But I do think things would be BETTER if we got those 3 down. Would we be Asia? No idea. 

[SeaConquest]

8 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I know....but...it just seems very circular at this point

I very much have an open mind bc I am really interested in what could have been done differently. It's not like I have a moral belief or anything, I have  nothing to loose and everything to gain from understanding why people think they way they think.

So far I have seen three things - masking, testing and tracing. My argument is that none of those, even if done from day 1 (which is not even that realistic) would have had the same results as they did in Asia.

So, that's where I am. 

Then you obviously didn't watch the videos I posted. One of the main differences is isolating the sick. We don't do that here. We send them home to infect everyone else in their family or worse (they may still have to work, get groceries, etc. because there is no one to care for them).

They also gave people PPE, so they would have masks. They developed apps so that they could easily track the spread.

Other countries also provided people with a basic income, so they wouldn't be forced to make risky decisions. In Canada, I believe it is around 2k/month. You cannot have a stable economy until you get the virus under control. Period. (Both the Treasury Secretary and the Chairman of the Fed agree with me.)

Edited October 29, 2020 by SeaConquest

[SereneHome]

7 minutes ago, Frances said:

How do you have no idea what Trump supporters do? Have you not seen pictures and videos of mandate and mask protests? Trump flags and signs and MAGA hats everywhere. When lawmakers and individuals are fighting and suing over mandates and masking are they Republicans or Democrats?

Was it doctored videos or tweets where Trump encouraged supporters in specific states to protest mandates? Where he said masking was voluntary and he likely wouldn’t do it? Where he rarely wore a mask to set an example? Where he mocked others for doing so? Where he publicly disagreed with federal health officials? Where he repeatedly spread misinformation about the pandemic?

It seems like you want reality to be a certain way despite all evidence to the contrary.

I’m not saying the general public would necessarily have followed the words and example of a science believing, unifying D president better. There likely would have been major rebellion on the right. But imagine a science believing, unifying, mature, empathetic, presidential R president, like basically any other in our lifetime. That could have made a huge difference in my opinion.

Would you believe me if I told you that I don't watch any news or anything politically related. Like at all!!

I searched for medical recommendations when this thing started. I have a few friends who work in John Hopkins (I used to live in MD) and I asked them. I watched Fauchi videos. But most of all - I decided that I am too terrified of this thing so I am going to protect myself and my family no matter what anyone said.

*My* reality is that I have friends who are R and are super cautious about Covid and I have friends who are libertarians who think it's all BS.  I have friends who are D who are just happy that Trump is getting slammed for this. A very good friend of mine was telling me yesterday that the ONLY reason she is voting for Biden was bc of how Trump handled Corona and that got me thinking - what could he have done differently. And then when I saw this article today about Europe I remembered how people on here were saying that US is the only country who handled it so so badly. Thus my question - what could have been done differently, here, in US, with all the advantages and limitations that we have.

 

 

[Frances]

27 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We are not Taiwan. Our population and demographics is entirely different. Anything can be done on a smaller scale with a homogeneous population.

I can't comment on WSJ article bc I am not able to read it. If there are points there that would prove me wrong, I would love to see it

ETA: Never mind, I didn't realize it was just a video.

So.....arghhhhh......again....are you arguing that starting January 20th we should be testing everyone, making everyone wear masks and doing contact tracing? Bc even know - 7 months and over 200K deaths into this. there are plenty of people who don't want to do any of that.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this thread - I asked for "realistic for US" plan. this is not it!

 

 

You can’t choose incompetence and then magically expect competence to happen. You can’t ferment divisiveness and anti-government rage and anti-science sentiment and then expect unity and compliance with public health mandates when a pandemic occurs. How this played out was preordained four years ago and likely even earlier. Despite being a Democrat, I believe having any Republican that was president in my lifetime or any of the others that were the party candidate in my lifetime or almost any of the others that ran last time would have made a significant difference. A Democrat would have faced too much open rebellion from the right concerning mandates and public cooperation, even if they did much better than Trump in leading the fight in all other ways.

[SanDiegoMom]

11 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

 

So far I have seen three things - masking, testing and tracing. My argument is that none of those, even if done from day 1 (which is not even that realistic) would have had the same results as they did in Asia.

So, that's where I am. 

Isn't that pretty much how different parts of Asia got it under control? Not all countries used severe lockdowns, but they all went very fast in ramping up testing, contact tracing, and providing masks for everyone.  That and the strong social compact really seems to be effective. 

https://globalhealth.duke.edu/news/how-some-asian-countries-beat-back-covid-19

Edited October 29, 2020 by SanDiegoMom

[Bootsie]

21 minutes ago, bookbard said:

Can I be the first to mention that Europe isn't a country? Thank you.

There is massive variation on how well/badly countries across Europe have done. UK is the worst, and if you look at their policies, you'll see why. Others, such as Finland/Norway have done better.

There certainly is an element of chance when it comes to it suddenly spreading. In Melbourne, the second wave can be traced to the actions of one family in quarantine, who had a corrupt security guard who was infected. In Sydney, a security guard who was infected also did the wrong thing but for whatever reason, no one caught it from him. 

But once the spread happens, then action needs to be taken. I believe Ireland's gone into lockdown and a few other countries are going into stricter lockdown such as Germany. They have test and trace programs set up; from what I hear in the UK, it is far more disorganised.

So, to repeat - massive variation across Europe, with vastly different policies dependent on their leaders and governments. The one thing in common of course is that everyone is tired of it all. That doesn't help, as they go into winter. We feel very, very sorry for the people of the northern hemisphere right now, from our side of the world. 

But, you can also see massive differences in different parts of the same country in Europe; You can also so massive differences in different parts of the same state in some states in the US.  You can even see large differences in my metropolitan area and even within my county by zipcode in my country.  So, it is difficult for me to attribute why the north portion of my county is doing worse than the southwest corner of my county when we are facing the same polices and leadership if it is indeed different governmental policies and leadership that cause some places to do better than others.  

[SereneHome]

3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

Then you obviously didn't watch the videos I posted. One of the main differences is isolating the sick. We don't do that here. We send them home to infect everyone else in their family or worse (they may still have to work, get groceries, etc. because there is no one to care for them).

They also gave people PPE, so they would have masks. They developed apps so that they could easily track the spread.

Other countries also provided people with a basic income, so they wouldn't be forced to make risky decisions. In Canada, I believe it is around 2k/month. You cannot have a stable economy until you get the virus under control. Period. 

We can't! We tried! I think some people got a ankle monitor or something. Some media went ballistic.

Again, we tried, I think and again, people didn't want to do it - HIPAA and privacy!

Well, I can't remember if I mentioned it  - we did screwed this up royally bc many people who didn't need it, got it and vice versa.

 

[bookbard]

I'm no expert, but isn't the north of your country pretty different from the south of your country, politically? Kind of like the flip of ours, actually. 

[Frances]

4 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Would you believe me if I told you that I don't watch any news or anything politically related. Like at all!!

I searched for medical recommendations when this thing started. I have a few friends who work in John Hopkins (I used to live in MD) and I asked them. I watched Fauchi videos. But most of all - I decided that I am too terrified of this thing so I am going to protect myself and my family no matter what anyone said.

*My* reality is that I have friends who are R and are super cautious about Covid and I have friends who are libertarians who think it's all BS.  I have friends who are D who are just happy that Trump is getting slammed for this. A very good friend of mine was telling me yesterday that the ONLY reason she is voting for Biden was bc of how Trump handled Corona and that got me thinking - what could he have done differently. And then when I saw this article today about Europe I remembered how people on here were saying that US is the only country who handled it so so badly. Thus my question - what could have been done differently, here, in US, with all the advantages and limitations that we have.

 

 

I also don’t watch news. But I do read news.

[Paige]

17 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

I am very much a person who likes to understand the "why" behind things. I just don't understand why people are so convinced that this nightmare could have been prevented / done less damage in US. 

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. And I am not seeing anything that would convince me that here, in US, something could have been done.

 

Ok. They had the “China ban” but actually allowed thousands of citizens and residents to continue to come in from China with almost no restrictions. Were there any? Maybe they had a temperature check but they weren’t forced into hotels for 2 weeks.
 

My relatives live overseas and have been back and forth at least twice from Central Asia. They came first when travel was going to be banned and were stuck in a nightmare of long lines as everyone was funneled to a few airports. They had free travel when entering and no screening. Ever. Going back to their less wealthy country is harder and restrictions are tighter. 
 

My physician traveled internationally in March, passed through at least 1 of the busiest airports in the country and had no screening. 

USPS was going to send masks to everyone but decided not to. 

States were told they were on their own.

Fauci stated in Jan that it was airborne and had asymptomatic spread. 

Gvmt officials minimizing risks

We had a whole plan from the simulation “crimson contagion” that said what the government actually did wasn’t going to work and they didn’t follow the recommendations that had been developed. 

We may not have been able to avoid pain but we should have been able to avoid this reality. It’s obvious. Look back on this board in Feb! Even the average news watchers on here were getting nervous. Why was nobody doing anything?! The admin saw the tsunami sucking water out, told people it was a fine day to go to the beach, and then acted like it was a surprise when the wave hit.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We can't! We tried! I think some people got a ankle monitor or something. Some media went ballistic.

Again, we tried, I think and again, people didn't want to do it - HIPAA and privacy!

But I actually think different messaging from up high would have made a tremendous difference about that, in terms of whether people choose to go ballistic. That one can't be tried anymore, though. Too late. 

[SereneHome]

5 minutes ago, Frances said:

You can’t choose incompetence and then magically expect competence to happen. You can’t ferment divisiveness and anti-government rage and anti-science sentiment and then expect unity and compliance with public health mandates when a pandemic occurs. How this played out was preordained four years ago and likely even earlier. Despite being a Democrat, I believe having any Republican that was president in my lifetime or any of the others that were the party candidate in my lifetime or almost any of the others that ran last time would have made a significant difference. A Democrat would have faced too much open rebellion from the right concerning mandates and public cooperation, even if they did much better than Trump in leading the fight in all other ways.

I do think you are right about complete and total divisiveness. About everything!!! It really is heartbreaking to see.

My parents had such high hopes when we came here a few decades ago...

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, SereneHome said:

My parents had such high hopes when we came here a few decades ago...

So fight for the world being a good place 😉 . If you want things not to be divisive, pull whatever party you're part of to the evidence-based approaches. Keep people accountable. Don't take democracy for granted. 

[Bootsie]

4 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Isn't that pretty much how different parts of Asia got it under control? Not all countries used severe lockdowns, but they all went very fast in ramping up testing, contact tracing, and providing masks for everyone.  That and the strong social compact really seems to be effective. 

The US has had 423,500 tests/million.  Japan has had 21,000/million; S Korea has had 50,700/million.  The US appears to be doing much more testing.  I am not sure that there is much relationship between countries with low case and death rates and the amount of testing that is occurring.  

[Matryoshka]

39 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

We are a republic of 50 states, most of which have populations smaller than Taiwan. There is absolutely no reason why the federal government could not appropriately develop and fund what is being done in Taiwan, to be implemented on a statewide level. Instead of demonizing "anarchist" blue states and withholding federal funds from them, we could have all been working together towards a unified, national health policy that governors implement on a statewide, regional basis with their public health departments. But, that requires unity, consensus, and maturity -- something which appears to be in short supply in our government these days. Frankly, I'm tired of the excuses about why x, y, and z can't work here. Let's just admit that our leaders didn't have the will (or ability?) to execute a coherent national strategy and that's why we have failed.  

Like, the definition of anarchy is literally 'no government'.  I'm still mystified about how the states actually, y'know, governing and trying to manage this crisis, are labeled 'anarchists'.  We have a federal government that has been sitting on its hands, denying there's a problem, or there's nothing we can do, firing experts and putting family members and Fox talking heads and other non-experts who just nod along with the feeling of the moment in 'charge' instead (though in reality they do... nothing) -  like did you hear yesterday they announced that Covid has been defeated!  Well, I guess that solves that problem!  Let's all stop worrying.

This inaction by our government, is the literal definition of anarchy.  We do not have a functional government.  A= no  archy = government.  If there were actual anarchists looking to have anarchy in the US, they'd all be having a big happy party because mission accomplished.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Matryoshka

[SereneHome]

7 minutes ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Isn't that pretty much how different parts of Asia got it under control? Not all countries used severe lockdowns, but they all went very fast in ramping up testing, contact tracing, and providing masks for everyone.  That and the strong social compact really seems to be effective. 

https://globalhealth.duke.edu/news/how-some-asian-countries-beat-back-covid-19

Right!! But look what has been happening here - do people in Asia post youtube videos of people not wearing masks and or spit on people who wear masks?? I've seen dozens of them over the last 7 months. It's horrible! People are so divisive and vicious to each other. No matter the mandates, no matter the common sense.

And the highlighted - we are severely missing that!

[OH_Homeschooler]

11 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Would you believe me if I told you that I don't watch any news or anything politically related. Like at all!!

 

 

I 100% have come to believe this about you.

[SeaConquest]

4 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We can't! We tried! I think some people got a ankle monitor or something. Some media went ballistic.

Again, we tried, I think and again, people didn't want to do it - HIPAA and privacy!

Well, I can't remember if I mentioned it  - we did screwed this up royally bc many people who didn't need it, got it and vice versa.

 

They are not under house arrest!

In California, we had hospitals all ready to go for Covid patients. We called up tons of healthcare professionals to volunteer for Health Corps. And then.... nothing. Our massive surge never came (knock wood), except for in a few regions that got hit hard. And those surges could have been avoided if we could have used all of our hospital (and makeshift hospital) space to isolate people who tested positive. We would have controlled community spread when it was still low. You take care of people when they are sick. Some people don't need intensive care, but they still need someone to look after them until they are well, and keep them from spreading the virus. You don't send people home so that one case turns into four. 

[Bootsie]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Right!! But look what has been happening here - do people in Asia post youtube videos of people not wearing masks and or spit on people who wear masks?? I've seen dozens of them over the last 7 months. It's horrible! People are so divisive and vicious to each other. No matter the mandates, no matter the common sense.

And the highlighted - we are severely missing that!

I don't know about YouTube videos but there has been violence in South Korea over mask wearing

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/01/south-korea-incidents-of-covid-19-mask-rage-flareas-summer-heats-up

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Right!! But look what has been happening here - do people in Asia post youtube videos of people not wearing masks and or spit on people who wear masks?? I've seen dozens of them over the last 7 months. It's horrible! People are so divisive and vicious to each other. No matter the mandates, no matter the common sense.

And the highlighted - we are severely missing that!

But I don't think that's separate from government decisions. And decisions by other individual entities. Put another way, you'd only need to change like 5 minds for things to be very different. 

[SereneHome]

7 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

We just keep going around and around about this. 

Do you actually believe that all 200K+ plus Americans who have died from COVID would still have died had we not done contact tracing or universal masking? If so, why? 

You ask for ideas and then you dismiss them. 

Why are testing, contact tracing, and masking so unrealistic? 

You keep moving the goalposts here. I don't think ANYONE has suggested that we would have the same results as South Korea. But that does not mean that we shouldn't adopt any of the things that helped South Korea. We'll have different outcomes but if those preventative measures are beneficial, they'll help here too. 

I live in a state that is supposedly anti-mask (Arizona). The state refused to do anything so the local municipalities in the Phoenix area enacted mask requirements. Compliance is about 98% on average in my area. The human element accounts for that 2% non-compliance. No one is going to jail. Everyone here knows that no one will be arrested or kicked out of a store not wearing a mask but yet virtually all of us wear masks in indoor public places. 

So why is a mask requirement completely unrealistic? 

 

I don't think I am moving goal post. My premise is that despite the outrage of the public, there was very little that could have been done based on the reality of what and where our country is.

Also, people keep saying masks, tracing, testing - it all would have been great if 1) we had the type of compliance from people that South Korea has and 2) we had the ability to ramp up those things for 300M people.

Overall, I find it incredibly sad that people (not on here, necessarily) made a HEALTH issue a political issue.

So....to answer @Not_a_Number - I guess it's not a data that I would be looking for but ideas on what could have unified us as "one" so testing and masks and tracing would have been a feasible and realistic measures.

 

[SereneHome]

7 minutes ago, OH_Homeschooler said:

I 100% have come to believe this about you.

I am not sure if this was meant as an insult.....

[SanDiegoMom]

3 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

 

So....to answer @Not_a_Number - I guess it's not a data that I would be looking for but ideas on what could have unified us as "one" so testing and masks and tracing would have been a feasible and realistic measures.

 

I think this was answered by the need for consistent messaging from the top administration.  Support for all governors, not just the ones of a particular party.  Using actual doctors and epidemiologists on the Covid task force and not just political loyalists, so that the messaging is data and science based.    

[kokotg]

12 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

The US has had 423,500 tests/million.  Japan has had 21,000/million; S Korea has had 50,700/million.  The US appears to be doing much more testing.  I am not sure that there is much relationship between countries with low case and death rates and the amount of testing that is occurring.  

South Korea had its first case the same day as the US, and 2 months later it was testing at 6x the rate of the US: https://khn.org/news/fact-check-trumps-boast-about-u-s-south-korea-coronavirus-testing-misses-the-mark/ . When you have 100 cases a day vs. 80,000, and you have rigorous contract tracing in place, you no longer need to test as much. Anyone know what South Korea's positivity rate is? You can get a good idea of whether you're doing enough testing from that.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, kokotg said:

South Korea had its first case the same day as the US, and 2 months later it was testing at 6x the rate of the US: https://khn.org/news/fact-check-trumps-boast-about-u-s-south-korea-coronavirus-testing-misses-the-mark/ . When you have 100 cases a day vs. 80,000, and you have rigorous contract tracing in place, you no longer need to test as much. Anyone know what South Korea's positivity rate is? You can get a good idea of whether you're doing enough testing from that.

Yeah, it's not one or the other. Testing early means you don't have to test as many people. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, kokotg said:

Anyone know what South Korea's positivity rate is? You can get a good idea of whether you're doing enough testing from that.

It's 1%. It's very good. 

[Shoeless]

28 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

We can't! We tried! I think some people got a ankle monitor or something. Some media went ballistic.

Again, we tried, I think and again, people didn't want to do it - HIPAA and privacy!

 

How do you know this is true if you don't follow the news? 

[SeaConquest]

16 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

Absolutely nothing. We are heading for Civil War.

I totally agree. I expect that the 5th largest economy in the world isn't going to put up with this nonsense much longer. I suspect that coastal Washington and Oregon will likely join the Republic of Pacifica as well. Hawaii will probably want its sovereignty back. Colorado could petition to join too, but they are landlocked. Canada might try to annex us, so the snowbirds have some place to go in the winter. 🙂

Edited October 29, 2020 by SeaConquest

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, SeaConquest said:

I totally agree. I expect that the 5th largest economy in the world isn't going to put up with this nonsense much longer. I suspect that Washington and Oregon will likely join the Republic of Pacifica as well. Hawaii will probably want its sovereignty back. Colorado could petition to join too, but they are landlocked. Canada might try to annex us, so the snowbirds have some place to go in the winter. 🙂

Dunno if this was tongue-in-cheek, but this reminds me of the time Cuomo had Chris Rock on one of his update videos, and Chris Rock said something like "I thought we had one country, but apparently, we have 50 different countries. Right now, I'm in the country of New York."

It was apt. And also, depressing. 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Happymomof1 said:

It is already exploding with so many riots in big cities.

Are people rioting in big cities? All I've seen here are BLM protests, which are NOT usually riots. (Yes, they've sparked some looting, which is really shameful, but they are not riots.) 

[kokotg]

And South Korea just started a whole bunch of new, targeted testing because they had a day with all of 76 new cases: https://www.startribune.com/the-latest-india-adds-61-800-new-cases-1-033-deaths/572786502/?refresh=true

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, kokotg said:

And South Korea just started a whole bunch of new, targeted testing because they had a day with all of 76 new cases: https://www.startribune.com/the-latest-india-adds-61-800-new-cases-1-033-deaths/572786502/?refresh=true

Right. That's the proactive versus reactive thing. I think NY is doing one of the better jobs out there nowadays, and it's still MUCH more reactive than this. 

[SeaConquest]

10 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Dunno if this was tongue-in-cheek, but this reminds me of the time Cuomo had Chris Rock on one of his update videos, and Chris Rock said something like "I thought we had one country, but apparently, we have 50 different countries. Right now, I'm in the country of New York."

It was apt. And also, depressing. 

I am sorta being cheeky, but I am not sure that it is that far-fetched, to be honest. I think Californians are tired of sending money to red states that do nothing but bad-mouth them. At some point, you wonder: where is the glue, where the national unity that is holding us together as Americans? Putin really got his moneys worth out of Trump. Americans haven't been this divided in a long time. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/20/904195380/break-it-up-examines-the-history-of-secession-movements-in-the-u-s

[SeaConquest]

7 minutes ago, Happymomof1 said:

You can make fun of me if you want, but I am very, very worried about what happens after the election. Many Americans are tired and angry and rightfully so. It is already exploding with so many riots in big cities. That could completely escalate if Trump is re-elected. If the outcome isn't known for 4-7 days ( which is a real possibility with all of the mail in ballots.) On the other side, If Biden is elected many people will have a Come and Take it attitude. We are already seeing far right groups with all of the kidnapping/assassination plots. I fear for ALL public officials right now on both sides of the aisle. I think it is going to be devastating. Our country is imploding. If not this year, within 10 years.

Just to be clear: I wasn't making fun of you. At all. I too am very concerned about civil unrest during the post-election period. Very very concerned. You are not alone. I apologize if I made you feel that I was making fun of you. That was not my intent at all.

[Bootsie]

27 minutes ago, kokotg said:

South Korea had its first case the same day as the US, and 2 months later it was testing at 6x the rate of the US: https://khn.org/news/fact-check-trumps-boast-about-u-s-south-korea-coronavirus-testing-misses-the-mark/ . When you have 100 cases a day vs. 80,000, and you have rigorous contract tracing in place, you no longer need to test as much. Anyone know what South Korea's positivity rate is? You can get a good idea of whether you're doing enough testing from that.

It was not until March 19 that the US surpassed S Korea in total number of cases (which was still significantly less per population).  Back through the first half of March--the US APPEARED to be doing much better than S. Korea.  

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I am sorta being cheeky, but I am not sure that it is that far-fetched, to be honest. I think Californians are tired of sending money to red states that do nothing but bad-mouth them. At some point, you wonder: where is the glue, where the national unity that is holding us together as Americans? Putin really got his moneys worth out of Trump. Americans haven't been this divided in a long time. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/20/904195380/break-it-up-examines-the-history-of-secession-movements-in-the-u-s

I'm wondering the same thing about the Northeast. Like, lots of very successful, economically important states, and they get... what? No aid in a pandemic? Lots of slagging? 

[SeaConquest]

5 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I am sorta being cheeky, but I am not sure that it is that far-fetched, to be honest. I think Californians are tired of sending money to red states that do nothing but bad-mouth them. At some point, you wonder: where is the glue, where is the national unity that is holding us together as Americans? Putin really got his moneys worth out of Trump. Americans haven't been this divided in a long time. 

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/20/904195380/break-it-up-examines-the-history-of-secession-movements-in-the-u-s

 

[kokotg]

1 minute ago, Bootsie said:

It was not until March 19 that the US surpassed S Korea in total number of cases (which was still significantly less per population).  Back through the first half of March--the US APPEARED to be doing much better than S. Korea.  

But if they were testing as much as South Korea, they might well have realized they weren't actually doing better. The fact that the US waited until it was clear spread was out of control before testing widely is my point. 

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, SereneHome said:

I am very much a person who likes to understand the "why" behind things. I just don't understand why people are so convinced that this nightmare could have been prevented / done less damage in US. 

I guess that's what it comes down to for me. And I am not seeing anything that would convince me that here, in US, something could have been done.

 

I’m not understanding the US as well obviously as I don’t live there but one thing I’ve seen mentioned was invoking the defence production act for producing PPE not meat.  

I think actively downplaying the virus was a big mistake.  And is still unfortunately being done.

I’ve been told internal border closures would never have worked in the US.  As difficult as they’ve been they’ve made a huge difference here, meaning in my state daily life has been normal.  
 

Laid off Airline workers here have been retrained as contact tracers.  
 

Globally it would have been good if aerosol spread had been acknowledged earlier so we could have focused on ventilation and masking as well as hand washing.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Ausmumof3