Help me out with this travel situation (Covid precautions)?

[Tenaj]

My SIL resides overseas.  She has decided to travel home for the holidays.  She is required to have a negative Covid test before boarding the flight in her country.  The length of the trip is between 24 - 48 hours (I don't have the details yet).  She is landing at an airport 2.5 hours away and my in-laws (who are both in their eighties) are planning to go and pick her up, drive her home and then she will quarantine for the 14 days.  It seems to me that this is a really bad idea but MIL is arguing that with the negative test required before the flight, it's perfectly safe even if she gets exposed during the actual trip.  She also says that SIL will not have to quarantine for 14 days because she can just get a test after 4 days and if it is negative all is well.

What do you think?  There is so much information floating around regarding Covid that I'm losing my sense of what is the most current recommendation?  The country she is coming from is not having a high amount of Covid at the moment or ever.  They have stayed completely steady with their numbers from the beginning until now.   We've tried to talk her into staying put, explaining that the holidays are not going to be normal at all.  We are in Ohio where cases are surging, the governor is begging everyone to avoid gatherings with people who are not living in the same household, hospitalizations are up.

[Katy]

They’re all adults. I don’t think there’s anything you can or should do about it. 

[EmilyGF]

There's good evidence that goggles do a lot to protect you. I'd encourage her to wear goggles.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2770872

Emily

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by EmilyGF

[Tenaj]

7 minutes ago, Katy said:

They’re all adults. I don’t think there’s anything you can or should do about it. 

Yes, I understand this but we are involved in that our family is very close and we do listen to and respect each other.  I'm trying to figure out the safest way to handle this.  If need be, my dh or I will go pick up SIL in order to protect the older generation or we will send one of our teens.  

[Innisfree]

When SIL gets picked up, everyone in the car should stay masked, and windows should stay at least part way open: probably the more open, the better. It would certainly be safer not to expose the older generation.

I'm not sure if waiting only four days for a test is adequate, but I tend to think it isn't.

The incubation period is *usually* under a week, but up to two weeks, and I *think* occasionally even longer. The recommendations to quarantine for two weeks are designed to catch the majority of cases, but they aren't an absolute guarantee that incubation never lasts longer.

Then, after the incubation period, isn't the recommendation to wait until the third or fourth day of symptoms before testing, in order to get a reliable result?

I might test after a week, or ten days. But I'd do it knowing it was a gamble.

How long is SIL staying?

She might be at more risk, relative to her home environment, than anyone else is in this situation.

[Tenaj]

7 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

When SIL gets picked up, everyone in the car should stay masked, and windows should stay at least part way open: probably the more open, the better. It would certainly be safer not to expose the older generation.

I'm not sure if waiting only four days for a test is adequate, but I tend to think it isn't.

The incubation period is *usually* under a week, but up to two weeks, and I *think* occasionally even longer. The recommendations to quarantine for two weeks are designed to catch the majority of cases, but they aren't an absolute guarantee that incubation never lasts longer.

Then, after the incubation period, isn't the recommendation to wait until the third or fourth day of symptoms before testing, in order to get a reliable result?

I might test after a week, or ten days. But I'd do it knowing it was a gamble.

How long is SIL staying?

She might be at more risk, relative to her home environment, than anyone else is in this situation.

Thank you for this information.     She is staying six weeks.  I understand why she's trying to avoid a full two week quarantine but her main contacts while here are all age 80 or above so it seems to my dh and I that she needs to be cautious.  

[Innisfree]

Yes, I'd want her to be cautious also.

If she's coming from an area where Covid is not common, and everyone else in the plane is also, that helps. I'd want her to wear a mask and preferably goggles as well on the flight.

If the eighty year olds are hunkered down being careful, then I'd be more focused on making her quarantine perfect than I would if the eighty year olds are seeing friends and going to the store daily in Ohio, iykwim.

[Lanny]

First, there is very little risk of getting COVID-19 while aboard a Civil Turbojet aircraft, but it is not impossible. The most recent  tests were done by the Dept. of Defense. They borrowed 2 different aircraft models (both Boeing as I recall) from United Airlines for the tests.  That was very recent. If not during October 2020, the tests were done during September 2020.

Secondly, if at all possible, she should travel on Delta Air Lines .  Delta is blocking off "Middle" seats at least through 06 January 2021. 

Third, is travel from the country of origin to the USA permitted by the USA at this time?  Here in Colombia, airline service resumed approximately 30 days ago, there are limited flights, but I don't believe flights to/from Europe are permitted at this time.  (I think only within the Americas (North and South) in addition to domestic flights within Colombia)  Anyone arriving here from the UK or Europe at this time is doing it via a connection in Mexico or some other country that is permitting service to/from the UK or Europe.

She will be in transit for many hours from what you wrote in the OP and should be well prepared with money to buy food and drinks in the connecting airports. It sounds like there will be 2 or 3 connections and some long layovers, from the total scheduled elapsed time.

ETA:   I reread part of the OP again. IMO the Elderly In-laws SHOULD NOT go to the airport to pick up this passenger.  No way...

Edited October 29, 2020 by Lanny
add ETA

[Ausmumof3]

One other thing I didn’t see you mention is whether or not she will have issues getting back and needing to quarantine in return given to the escalating situation in the US.  If it’s a direct flight from a low numbers country she’s probably not too high risk.  The negative test is not really a guarantee as some people don’t test positive till a second or third test so she really should be doing the full quarantine.  So many difficult things to work through.

[happi duck]

Is there a reason she isn't renting a car and driving alone?

Where is she staying during the six weeks?

[PeterPan]

How long is this SIL going to be here? And the MIL is parent? So if the SIL stayed somewhere else, the net effect would be less time seeing their parents? 

I think people are adults and decide what they want. Would you be willing to die to see your dc? Some people would. 

I think I would give them accurate information, that a negative test is a snapshot in time and that they have to *understand* that she could, at any point turn out to be positive. As with ANYONE coming into their house, they have to decide if they are comfortable with that. If they are of sound mind, low risk (other than age), and they acknowledge she could be positive at some point and that they could get sick, it's their business. 

I've gone to visit my mom, and it's the same gig. She and her dh both had to decide for themselves whether THEY were willing to risk getting sick for a visit. I cannot possibly say I'm not carrying or presymptomatic or whatever. And her dh does get lung infections and have problems. 

The numbers in Ohio are up, but I also heard we're getting therapeutics in the major cities. That makes a difference. If numbers go up and deaths stay down, it's a radically different scenario from this spring. 

2 hours ago, JanOH said:

She is staying six weeks.  I understand why she's trying to avoid a full two week quarantine but her main contacts while here are all age 80 or above so it seems to my dh and I that she needs to be cautious.  

Ok, that's a nice long time but I can see what she doesn't want to quarantine. Can she seclude for the two weeks *before* her flight? If she does that, I think that makes a difference. If she's out and about a lot where she lives and very high exposure, that is really different from being able to telecommute the last two weeks before she comes kwim? 

The irony is, she could get it during a two week quarantine depending on where she is and what she's doing. It would be easier to have her stay with someone who has a larger house (more distance) and let the MIL come over there during the two weeks. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by PeterPan

[Starr]

My experience is that the over eighties will do what they are going to do. They say it doesn't matter if they get Covid and we worry that they will. No one stops to consider that the elderly can be the spreader. It once again comes down to what your immediate family is comfortable doing. If SIL is going to be visiting in the house then picking her up at the airport doesn't change much. I've seen folks come to our state to visit elderly relatives and say they are quarantining but don't. Fortunately she's coming from a low incidence country. Good luck sorting it all out. I'm sorry there isn't an easier answer. It's all masking, distance, isolating when necessary. If you want the best odds she should be isolating for at least two weeks. But it doesn't sound like that is going to happen. It's all so frustrating.

[Tenaj]

5 hours ago, Lanny said:

First, there is very little risk of getting COVID-19 while aboard a Civil Turbojet aircraft, but it is not impossible. The most recent  tests were done by the Dept. of Defense. They borrowed 2 different aircraft models (both Boeing as I recall) from United Airlines for the tests.  That was very recent. If not during October 2020, the tests were done during September 2020.

Secondly, if at all possible, she should travel on Delta Air Lines .  Delta is blocking off "Middle" seats at least through 06 January 2021. 

Third, is travel from the country of origin to the USA permitted by the USA at this time?  Here in Colombia, airline service resumed approximately 30 days ago, there are limited flights, but I don't believe flights to/from Europe are permitted at this time.  (I think only within the Americas (North and South) in addition to domestic flights within Colombia)  Anyone arriving here from the UK or Europe at this time is doing it via a connection in Mexico or some other country that is permitting service to/from the UK or Europe.

She will be in transit for many hours from what you wrote in the OP and should be well prepared with money to buy food and drinks in the connecting airports. It sounds like there will be 2 or 3 connections and some long layovers, from the total scheduled elapsed time.

ETA:   I reread part of the OP again. IMO the Elderly In-laws SHOULD NOT go to the airport to pick up this passenger.  No way...

Yes, the country is Bangladesh and they have opened up air flight for the time being.  I'm not sure how many connections there are this time.  Usually she has at least three layovers and connections in her journeys to and from.

[Tenaj]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

One other thing I didn’t see you mention is whether or not she will have issues getting back and needing to quarantine in return given to the escalating situation in the US.  If it’s a direct flight from a low numbers country she’s probably not too high risk.  The negative test is not really a guarantee as some people don’t test positive till a second or third test so she really should be doing the full quarantine.  So many difficult things to work through.

As far as I know, she will need to quarantine once she gets back to Bangladesh.  I know that the people traveling back from her organization are all quarantining, whether that's required by the country or is just common sense, I'm not sure.  

[Tenaj]

3 hours ago, happi duck said:

Is there a reason she isn't renting a car and driving alone?

Where is she staying during the six weeks?

I'm assuming that renting a car has not been discussed because someone always meets her at the airport when she arrives. Her parents are understandably excited about her coming for Christmas.  My dh and I seem to be the only "wet blankets" to the idea and keep pointing out the practical adjustments that need to be made.  

As to where she's staying, I was afraid to even bring that up in the conversation since I had been so negative already about the plans.  I'm assuming she will quarantine at another relative's apartment which is vacant at this time and then stay with her parents (my inlaws).  I really hope that is the plan at least.

[Tenaj]

3 hours ago, PeterPan said:

How long is this SIL going to be here? And the MIL is parent? So if the SIL stayed somewhere else, the net effect would be less time seeing their parents? 

I think people are adults and decide what they want. Would you be willing to die to see your dc? Some people would. 

I think I would give them accurate information, that a negative test is a snapshot in time and that they have to *understand* that she could, at any point turn out to be positive. As with ANYONE coming into their house, they have to decide if they are comfortable with that. If they are of sound mind, low risk (other than age), and they acknowledge she could be positive at some point and that they could get sick, it's their business. 

I've gone to visit my mom, and it's the same gig. She and her dh both had to decide for themselves whether THEY were willing to risk getting sick for a visit. I cannot possibly say I'm not carrying or presymptomatic or whatever. And her dh does get lung infections and have problems. 

The numbers in Ohio are up, but I also heard we're getting therapeutics in the major cities. That makes a difference. If numbers go up and deaths stay down, it's a radically different scenario from this spring. 

Ok, that's a nice long time but I can see what she doesn't want to quarantine. Can she seclude for the two weeks *before* her flight? If she does that, I think that makes a difference. If she's out and about a lot where she lives and very high exposure, that is really different from being able to telecommute the last two weeks before she comes kwim? 

The irony is, she could get it during a two week quarantine depending on where she is and what she's doing. It would be easier to have her stay with someone who has a larger house (more distance) and let the MIL come over there during the two weeks. 

I don't think she can seclude for the two weeks before and I'm not sure how careful she actually can be in her country.   We're talking about a city in a third world country with a lot of population in a very small space.   Every time you step out of your front door, you are surrounded by people. 

[PeterPan]

Oh dear. Then it seems like they have to assume she's potentially carrying and be comfortable with that risk. If she could stay with someone else the first two weeks, that could be wise. But really, she could get it in that time too. 

Is there any possibility she's already had it? I just heard on the radio that Kroger is going to be offering antibody testing for $25 soon.

[Tenaj]

5 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Oh dear. Then it seems like they have to assume she's potentially carrying and be comfortable with that risk. If she could stay with someone else the first two weeks, that could be wise. But really, she could get it in that time too. 

Is there any possibility she's already had it? I just heard on the radio that Kroger is going to be offering antibody testing for $25 soon.

I saw that.  Hmmmm . . . maybe that would be a possibility to help shorten the quarantine.  Thanks!  Good idea!

 

[TravelingChris]

Why can't she get a test before like required, then after arriving get one again.  IF she is negative on both, she is good to go (basically, I know , I know)

 

[Lanny]

4 hours ago, JanOH said:

I saw that.  Hmmmm . . . maybe that would be a possibility to help shorten the quarantine.  Thanks!  Good idea!

 

Is that the Saliva test or the PCR test? The only test the governments seem to have any confidence in at this time is the PCR test.

[Lanny]

I am an elderly person.  Not 80 but I have read just how vulnerable  elderly people are, compared with, for example, people about half of our age.

We are *thousands* of times more likely to get COVID-19 than people half our age are.

There is NO WAY  IN HELL that I think or believe that it is OK for people 80+ to drive 2.5 hours in a car to pick up someone in an airport, and then drive them back 2.5 hours in a car. That IMO is putting the elderly at extreme risk. Send a teenager or hire a very young driver to pick her up.

In March, the Colombian government put everyone 70+ under Quarantine, through the end of July,  The more I learned about COVID-19 and the elderly, the more appreciative I became of the Colombian government putting us under that Quarantine. 

[happi duck]

5 hours ago, JanOH said:

I'm assuming that renting a car has not been discussed because someone always meets her at the airport when she arrives. Her parents are understandably excited about her coming for Christmas.  My dh and I seem to be the only "wet blankets" to the idea and keep pointing out the practical adjustments that need to be made.  

As to where she's staying, I was afraid to even bring that up in the conversation since I had been so negative already about the plans.  I'm assuming she will quarantine at another relative's apartment which is vacant at this time and then stay with her parents (my inlaws).  I really hope that is the plan at least.

If she rents a car and stays in a vacant apartment then they could do masked and distant outdoor visits while waiting out two weeks.  (Not perfect but better than no precautions and being in a car for hours.)