Anyone want to join me on a 21 day Complaint Free challenge?

[Pen]

Btw- I don’t think it is at all necessary to read the book to try the practice.

 

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, MercyA said:

Very pretty wristlet, @Pen! I haven't decided what I'm going to use yet. Marbles in a jar? Wish I had a mini abacus or something.

 

I think something easily available - one marble to move from left to right pocket or something.  

[Carol in Cal.]

6 minutes ago, Pen said:

Btw- I don’t think it is at all necessary to read the book to try the practice.

 

And that is clearly a Very Good Thing, LOL!

[Pen]

2 hours ago, Dreamergal said:

Since this is not a JAWM thread, I found a lot of things problematic in the link you posted  in my short reading for the sake of brevity and my sanity I am going to post the top three.

1. This review  as an endorsement of this book. 

“Like most of the other folks who took up the Complaint Free Challenge, I quickly discovered exactly how many of the words I spoke in daily interactions were complaints. For the first time, I really heard myself when I vented about work, whined about my aches and pains, bemoaned political and world issues, and complained about the weather. What a shock to realize how many of my words held negative energy – and I considered myself such a positive person!”

Huh ? If the person who read this book came up with "bemoaning" political and world issues to complaining about the weather and this was supposed to be an endorsement of the book, my take away is don't speak up so your world will be calm and orderly. 

2. "However, many people today are living in the safest, healthiest and most prosperous time in all of human history. And yet, what do they do? They complain" 

This sets my teeth on edge because I have heard many forms of it. I had friends, girls who were friends of mine who worked hard and studied to get better marks than me. They came from wealthy families and were asked to stop studying at age 16 because they were getting married to a family with multiple domestic servants, drivers and their parents could not understand what more they could want. My friends would live like queens they were told, who wants to work like a man. Why were they complaining ? Why can't they be happy ? I remember holding a sobbing friend who wanted the simple pleasure of studying,  taking public transportation to college and living a life like that over servants, drivers which meant a golden cage. There are women especially living this very life in my own country of origin. Seeing that made me push harder when I was given any amount of resistance to live my life even if it was difficult. My friends raise their daughters very differently.

3. "ignorance is bliss"

Ignorance truly is bliss. I had my faith intact till I began to question the slavery verses and the role of the church in colonization, my own family history of it and uncovered painful things. It was hard when I pushed back against gender roles and it made me go through a period of frustration between my parents and me because they just could not understand why I would not accept the status quo and "be a good girl". They changed and it saved our relationship else I would have broken, been unhappy, lived a half life. My dissatisfaction took me half way across the world to a country I thought had all that I was seeking because I read that in books. 

In Hindi there is a saying mera dum ghut raha hai. It means "I am choking" or in other words "I cannot breathe" a very familiar cry today.

Though it does say do not judge a book by it's cover, reading a few pages of this book makes me say BS to it. 

I am sorry @Pen if I came across as harsh. This is my sincere review of what I see. 

 

It isn’t a JAWM thread, opinions okay.

 I borrowed the audio book after it was mentioned by someone else on WTM. I am not personally invested in anyone on here liking it.

And I have only tried the concept for a half a day, so I don’t know how I myself will feel about it 6 months from now. 

 

I was surprised that so many people felt upset by the idea to the extent of feeling a need to voice opposition to it, rather than just not choosing to do do it. Nonetheless IMO  it makes it a much more interesting thread to get into opinions about it.   And your posts are very well thought out and I have appreciated reading them. 

 

 

And, I am sorry for your loss both of your daughter and any miscarriages also.  😢(((hugs)))

[marbel]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

Haven't read the book, not planning on it, just thinking that this is a good, healthy, useful, Scripturally sound thing to work on.

No one likes to be around someone who is complaining all the time about trivial things. There is absolutely a level at which one can start to seem ungrateful.

I am not talking about expressing grief over serious things. I am not talking about expressing concerns about world events. I am talking about me complaining that I was tired when making dinner an hour ago. Heated up dinner in the microwave. Woe is me. 🙄 Love to kick that habit. I do much better than I did when I was first married (my poor, wonderful, long-suffering husband!), but I'd like to progress further. 

Pen, I think I'm going to do the best I can for 21 days instead of trying for 21 perfect days in a row. I think it'll still be helpful! Looking forward to doing this challenge with those who are in. ❤️

I was trying to articulate my thoughts on this but Mercy pretty much took care of it for me.

I do far too much complaining about stupid, trivial things: people taking too long at the gas pump ahead of me, red lights, anything really that keeps me from doing things as quickly as I can, such as a family member being in my way when I  want to do something in the kitchen right now. Most of my complaining is in my own head. That's what I thought of when I read the OP, regardless of the dictionary definition or how complaining is defined in the referenced book.

Re the bolded: right. Goodness, no one expects a person not to grieve over the death or serious illness of a loved one, etc. 

I will try to join. I think this is a good thing to be mindful of. 

[Garga]

I think I’m going to observe myself first to determine how much I complain. And then I’ll try to categorize the complaints. And lastly, I’ll try to cut out the complaints that are in a category where they cause harm against other people.  

Like, it probably doesn’t harm the other person driving past me if I complain about his driving. Sure, it might hurt me to be in a negative headspace, but I’ll worry about those complaints later.  

Some complaining can hurt others: like, it could hurt my children if I complain about the bad way they did a chore. I could find a better way to talk to them instead of complaining about how they do things. (That’s just a quick example.)

And...gales of laughter thinking I can go 21 days without any complaining!  Like Spycar said, I kinda think I might have been born to kvetch. A little kvetching is a safety release, IMO. 

But mean-spirited complaining that hurts others can certainly be toned down.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Garga

[regentrude]

16 minutes ago, Pen said:

I was surprised that so many people felt upset by the idea to the extent of feeling a need to voice opposition to it, rather than just not choosing to do do it.

I think it may be because this is hitting a nerve with some people? 
Because there is SO much grief and pain right now, and for much of it no possible action one can take, and venting is the only thing that is left.

I fee like screaming when I see another inspirational quote on social media. Like the one I saw yesterday "Be ok with not knowing what will come next, but know whatever it is, you will be ok".  No, you don't know that. So, so many people are not OK. And the thought that we can't even express that, but should present stiff upper lip so we don't burden anyone just seems to add insult to injury. Does that make any sense?

Edited October 25, 2020 by regentrude

[Not_a_Number]

6 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I think it may be because this is hitting a nerve with some people? 
Because there is SO much grief and pain right now, and for much of it no possible action one can take, and venting is the only thing that is left.

I fee like screaming when I see another inspirational quote on social media. Like the one I saw yesterday "Be ok with not knowing what will come next, but know whatever it is, you will be ok".  No, you don't know that. So, so many people are not OK. And the thought that we can't even express that, but should present stiff upper lip just seems to add insult to injury. Does that make any sense?

Honestly, sometimes kvetching to people nearby about all the ways this sucks keeps me sane. And keeps me from actually yelling at people in real life... 

[regentrude]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Honestly, sometimes kvetching to people nearby about all the ways this sucks keeps me sane. And keeps me from actually yelling at people in real life... 

It helps in several ways. First, it helps if others are experiencing the same and can give one another empathy; it's good not to be alone.
Second, if you have a problem, unless you tell, they can't lend support. (Yes, I know, I can dream... in an ideal world maybe)

[Spy Car]

In my own personal "religion," I've always felt like it was a moral imperative to complain when situations were messed up; that silence is complicity.

Likewise, kvetching is a tool to help make for a better world.

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it (except for Instacart ).

Bill

 

 

 

[mom2scouts]

I keep a monthly gratitude journal on my computer and it does help me to see the good things in my life. Sometimes I have to try really hard to come up with something, but I always can. However, I don't think I can go 21 days complaint free this year. Yes, most of the things I'm complaining about are minor. It's just that this year it's annoyance after annoyance, loss after loss, disappointment after disappointment and if I don't complain about a few of the little things I'll probably have a huge blowup instead.

[marbel]

30 minutes ago, regentrude said:

It helps in several ways. First, it helps if others are experiencing the same and can give one another empathy; it's good not to be alone.
Second, if you have a problem, unless you tell, they can't lend support. (Yes, I know, I can dream... in an ideal world maybe)

Sharing a problem with someone and seeking help is complaining?  I don't think that really is what most people are talking about here.

Inspired by this thread, I did some googling and came across this article (link to Psychology Today magazine): The Three Types of Complaining. I found it interesting, especially this bit: 

In one study, researchers found that happy people complain less. They also looked at the evidence that the happy folks in their study were more mindful. They hypothesize that more cheerful folks are likely to complain more mindfully—more strategically if you will—and with a specific goal in mind. 

[regentrude]

8 minutes ago, marbel said:

In one study, researchers found that happy people complain less. They also looked at the evidence that the happy folks in their study were more mindful. They hypothesize that more cheerful folks are likely to complain more mindfully—more strategically if you will—and with a specific goal in mind. 

One might equally well see that as evidence that people who have fewer problems to complain about are happier.

I recently took the Yale Science of happiness MOOC and am underwhelmed at what passes for a scientific study in the psychology of happiness.

ETA: The "instrumental" complaint only works if a solution exists. If a problem has no solution, then yes, venting is a way to solicit attention and sympathy - because it sucks to feel all alone with your unsolvable problem, and it helps if somebody listens and offers a shoulder.

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by regentrude

[Pen]

 

2 hours ago, MercyA said:

Pen, I think I'm going to do the best I can for 21 days instead of trying for 21 perfect days in a row. I think it'll still be helpful! Looking forward to doing this challenge with those who are in. ❤️

 

All variations like this or daily gratitude or other variations some posters have mentioned sound good to me too!

[EmilyGF]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

 

It isn’t a JAWM thread, opinions okay.

 I borrowed the audio book after it was mentioned by someone else on WTM. I am not personally invested in anyone on here liking it.

And I have only tried the concept for a half a day, so I don’t know how I myself will feel about it 6 months from now. 

 

I was surprised that so many people felt upset by the idea to the extent of feeling a need to voice opposition to it, rather than just not choosing to do do it. Nonetheless IMO  it makes it a much more interesting thread to get into opinions about it.   And your posts are very well thought out and I have appreciated reading them. 

 

 

And, I am sorry for your loss both of your daughter and any miscarriages also.  😢(((hugs)))

My mom is one of the happiest, friendliest, most positive people I know. She has all sorts of health problems now and was raised with all sorts of family disfunction that really could have been made into a movie. She had polio that left her partially paralyzed and now has post-polio syndrome that has robbed her of her ability to walk more than short distances. She's had breast cancer twice (separate, non-related). 

Yet, she is super positive and people have the nerve to say to her, "N., I think you should complain more." Huh?

Emily

[Pen]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I think I’m going to structure it differently. I’m going to try to move my bracelet from wrist to wrist the fewest times over twenty one days. I’m not going to start over when I mess up because, at 5:37am when I have already complained because the coffee pot failed to switch on automatically due to the power going out for two minutes in the middle of the night, I will have already blown it for the day and will feel like I might as well have at it. Heh. So I’m not going to add days. I’m just going to try not to have a reason to switch the bracelet over. 

 

It only suggests moving the bracelet for a complaint that is made Audible - not trying to switch sides for every complaint thought (but suggests that over time thoughts become more positive too).  So if you have uttered a moan, groan, invective or whatever about coffee pot then that is supposed to get a switch of the bracelet or bracelet equivalent. But not if it’s only a thought. 

 

[EmilyGF]

3 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

And never ever pray for patience.  Right?  God answers that prayer and will give you opportunity to learn patience.  :0)

Making a distinction between grief and complaining.  

My dog died and I am so sad.  NOT a complaint.  Grief.

My husband ran off and I'm completely bewildered and here are the reasons why: ... NOT a complaint. Grief.

That guy left NO ROOM FOR CREAM and I specifically said I wanted room for cream!!!  A complaint.

Why do people drive like this?  Don't they understand that the left lane is for PASSING....  A complaint.  

The stupid store didn't honor my coupon and it just expired yesterday.  A complaint.

 

On Grief:  I'm all ears.

On Complaint: I'm all earplugs. 

On Complaints I Wish to Make:  I need duct tape.  

 

That's a really useful distinction. Thank you.

[Amy Gen]

I think of complaints as implying that there is no plan on how to change things in the future. When I imagine the chronic complainer, I see them continuing to complain about the same things time after time. I don’t see them taking action to get a different outcome. 
 

There is a children’s book that I love called “Fortunately” . When I was a classroom teacher, I used it as a templet for writing, but now I see it as a templet for my own life. 

Unfortunately, I had a mother with mental illness. 
Fortunately, it taught me how not to treat my own children. 
Unfortunately, my mother gave me an alcoholic, abusive stepfather. 
Fortunately, this helped me choose the most loving, nurturing husband in the world.

Unfortunately,  I had multiple miscarriages. 
Fortunately, I was able to still have 5 children who are my favorite people in the world. 
 

It doesn’t mean that bad things didn’t happen and don’t still happen. It just means that I can choose to dwell on the positive and when something unfortunate happens, I continue to ask myself, “What can I do to turn this into a fortunately?” 
 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Amy Gen said:

I think of complaints as implying that there is no plan on how to change things in the future. When I imagine the chronic complainer, I see them continuing to complain about the same things time after time. I don’t see them taking action to get a different outcome. 
 

There is a children’s book that I love called “Fortunately” . When I was a classroom teacher, I used it as a templet for writing, but now I see it as a templet for my own life. 

Unfortunately, I had a mother with mental illness. 
Fortunately, it taught me how not to treat my own children. 
Unfortunately, my mother gave me an alcoholic, abusive stepfather. 
Fortunately, this helped me choose the most loving, nurturing husband in the world.

Unfortunately,  I had multiple miscarriages. 
Fortunately, I was able to still have 5 children who are my favorite people in the world. 
 

It doesn’t mean that bad things didn’t happen and don’t still happen. It just means that I can choose to dwell on the positive and when something unfortunate happens, I continue to ask myself, “What can I do to turn this into a fortunately?” 
 

I loved that book as a kid. I never thought about how that could be a template for pivoting in life. It is a great idea, though, so thank you for sharing that. 

[Amy Gen]

I just bought myself a new copy. 
 

Unfortunately, I still have an internal port because my cancer is likely to return or to spread. 
Fortunately, that port came with a rubber bracelet. I don’t have to go look for something to move from wrist to wrist. 
 

I really think I was born to be an optimist, but it helps me to choose to practice the habit too! 

[Pen]

12 minutes ago, Amy Gen said:

I think of complaints as implying that there is no plan on how to change things in the future. When I imagine the chronic complainer, I see them continuing to complain about the same things time after time. I don’t see them taking action to get a different outcome. 
 

There is a children’s book that I love called “Fortunately” . When I was a classroom teacher, I used it as a templet for writing, but now I see it as a templet for my own life. 

Unfortunately, I had a mother with mental illness. 
Fortunately, it taught me how not to treat my own children. 
Unfortunately, my mother gave me an alcoholic, abusive stepfather. 
Fortunately, this helped me choose the most loving, nurturing husband in the world.

Unfortunately,  I had multiple miscarriages. 
Fortunately, I was able to still have 5 children who are my favorite people in the world. 
 

It doesn’t mean that bad things didn’t happen and don’t still happen. It just means that I can choose to dwell on the positive and when something unfortunate happens, I continue to ask myself, “What can I do to turn this into a fortunately?” 
 

 

Oh thank you!

Unfortunately I never encountered that book before, fortunately Amy Gen brought it to my attention and how to use it as a life template now!

 I love this!

[Amy Gen]

That is why I tried to frame it as being born an optimist and not as a virtue issue. I see the glass half full. I don’t need to pretend it is all the way full. I know that life can be tragic, but I can still focus on the positive. 
 

Earlier this year, I was in the hospital with 3 potentially fatal conditions at once. When I went into surgery, the anesthesiologist told me that the surgery was dangerous and they didn’t have the tools to revive me if things started going south. 
 

I wasn’t really prepared for that. I thought it was more routine. I got worried for my kids, but immediately thought, “Fortunately, they have many other people who love them and will take care of them. Fortunately, I just spent time with 2 of my favorite friends. If that is my last day alive, it was a good one!” 
 

The nurses asked if I was getting a permanent colostomy bag. I said, “Who knows, but if I do, it will be fine.”  
 

This doesn’t mean that I never grieve. It just means that I have an unshakable belief that in the end, my story will end in fortunately. 
 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Amy Gen

[Amy Gen]

4 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

By the way, I am Piglet (anxious and concerned but basically hopeful and best friend of Pooh, easy-going and hopeful)

My best friend used to live next door to me. Our houses flooded in a tropical storm. She remembers being so distraught before I yelled out the upstairs window and invited her to come over and sit in a play kitchen chair and eat pizza and look at decorating magazines and pick out our new paint colors and floor coverings. 
 

She says it is the day that changed her life because she saw that what we experience really is colored by how we choose to see it. 
 

But I need her pragmatic side too. I told Dh to make sure she has all of his passwords because if he dies, she will need those to take care of me. LOL. 

[Ausmumof3]

Sorry to analyse your happy post to death pen.  But I was going to say sometimes complaining is kind of a relationship bridge too.  Not if you overdo it.  But for example with the pandemic.  One person says ... this really sucks being stuck home with my kids indefinitely.  Then someone else who was having the same thought process but thought they were the only ones feeling that way and feeling guilty because they‘re not enjoying every minute of their kids company.  Suddenly now they know they’re not alone it’s ok to feel that way and there’s a little bridge.   Also sometimes if someone never complains people look at them and think that they have a perfect life which can lead to envy and all sorts. 
 

in other words I think a whole stack of weight is in how it’s worded and how long it goes on for.  It can be a positive thing to share and acknowledge your struggles even when they’re not deep life changing griefs.  Sometimes it’s ok to say “hey my dishwasher washing machine and car all broke on the same day.  This is frustrating”.  What’s important is not then to get stuck in or dwell on that thought.  Notice it, acknowledge it and move on.

[Pen]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Sorry to analyse your happy post to death pen.  But I was going to say sometimes complaining is kind of a relationship bridge too.  Not if you overdo it.  But for example with the pandemic.  One person says ... this really sucks being stuck home with my kids indefinitely.  Then someone else who was having the same thought process but thought they were the only ones feeling that way and feeling guilty because they‘re not enjoying every minute of their kids company.  Suddenly now they know they’re not alone it’s ok to feel that way and there’s a little bridge.  

 

Sure, I agree with that.

and a goal of 21 days complaint free doesn’t equal  never ever to complain for life.  

I am looking at it as It might be like going gluten free as a trial — not necessarily a permanent commitment if not celiac so that one must be gluten free permanently. Just a try,  if it turns out if feels better to be a gluten eater one could return to it, or have it on special occasions, or not at all if one discovers that some problem one had while on gluten goes away in large part of gluten free. 

 

Quote

Also sometimes if someone never complains people look at them and think that they have a perfect life which can lead to envy and all sorts. 
 

in other words I think a whole stack of weight is in how it’s worded and how long it goes on for.  It can be a positive thing to share and acknowledge your struggles even when they’re not deep life changing griefs.  Sometimes it’s ok to say “hey my dishwasher washing machine and car all broke on the same day.  This is frustrating”.  What’s important is not then to get stuck in or dwell on that thought.  Notice it, acknowledge it and move on.

 

Sharing or acknowledging struggles is not the same concept to me as “complaining”. 

 

 

[Ausmumof3]

3 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Sure, I agree with that.

and a goal of 21 days complaint free doesn’t equal  never ever to complain for life.  

I am looking at it as It might be like going gluten free as a trial — not necessarily a permanent commitment if not celiac so that one must be gluten free permanently. Just a try,  if it turns out if feels better to be a gluten eater one could return to it, or have it on special occasions, or not at all if one discovers that some problem one had while on gluten goes away in large part of gluten free. 

 

 

Sharing or acknowledging struggles is not the same concept to me as “complaining”. 

 

 

It’s quite hard for me to separate the two for some reason.  Possibly from growing up in a religious environment when “not grumbling” has occasionally been used to silence legitimate issues (not my family home though thankfully)

[easypeasy]

I love the thought of this and would completely be on board... except the 21 days envelop the election and if there is a certain outcome, I am going to have to complain (loudly) or explode.

I'm mentally bookmarking the idea, though, and will maybe start once there is a definitive election result and nothing more that can be done about it. My husband will be MOST appreciative to not have to listen to me complain about a certain someone (🍊) or COVID for 21 straight days. Those are pretty much the only things I complain about. 😏

[Pen]

 

https://youtu.be/3vrMFcleDp4

Humor Movie clip with characters complaining 😁  - 

 

[Robin M]

4 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

Christian Content:  fair warning.  

For many Orthodox Christians, the morning prayers include this prayer.  The underlined portions are the ones that make me think that I have a role in this--that if I complain, I am going against the thing I am praying for.  I think it is up to me to at least make an effort if I am going to ask God for something.  And trust me, I am sooooo far away from doing well on this.

 It has been a week and a half and it doesn't look like things are going to improve anytime soon, but are likely to get more into the area that makes me want to complain.  So I think I will either have to stop praying this prayer or make an effort to cooperate with God at least a little bit...   (Anyone know where duct tape is on sale????)

 

 

O Lord, grant that I may meet the coming day in peace. Help me in all things to rely upon Thy Holy Will. In every hour of the day, reveal Thy will to me.
Bless my dealings with all who surround me.
Teach me to treat all that comes to me throughout the day with peace of soul,and with the firm conviction that Thy will governs all.
In all my deeds and words, guide my thoughts and feelings.
In unforeseen events, let me not forget that all are sent by Thee.
Teach me to act firmly and wisely, without embittering or embarrassing others.
Give me the strength to bear the fatigue of the coming day with all that it shall bring.
Direct my will. Teach me to pray. Pray Thou Thyself in me.
Amen.

Thank you for sharing this wonderful prayer. 

I always say let go, let go, let God when I can't control the outcome, just myself. 

My rambling midnight thoughts after reading everyone's comments.   Two pieces of advice I use in my life. I heard from someone,  was to try to balance being positive with the negative. If you can keep the positive to at least 80% of the time, then the rest will take care of itself.  I'm optimistic by nature so always look at the glass half full. I remember once trying to council a fellow writer, someone who thought negatively most of the time, to be more positive and use that energy in her writing.  Little did I realize that she was negative by nature and my advice really stressed her out.  So we all have different ways of looking at life.    The other piece of advice which may or may not have to do with complaining or a negative out look, is always look for the best in a person.  Uplift them in your heart as much as you can. Because when all you see if the annoying or negative traits, that's all you'll see and forget about the positive.  Works too with always looking and working toward the best outcome versus the worst outcome.   I'm also guilty of avoiding negative people because I don't like complaining.  But the Lord chose to give me a negative child and I had to learn to deal with it.  Kind of goes along with praying for patience because the Lord will really test you then and make you realize you had patience all along.  

Grief is not complaining, grief is a process. It comes in waves and you have to deal with it as it will always bring back memories as well as new insights.  We grieve the loss of parent just as much as people grieve the loss of a job as well as will be grieving no matter the out come of the presidency.  No amount of complaining is going to change the outcome.  The problem with complaining is when one ends up complaining about the same thing over and over again and never attempting to make a change.  I discovered when I keep repeating myself over and over in my journals about an issue, that I need to make a change, I need to do something different.  Look for a positive outcome.  What's that saying,  Aim for the moon, but even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.  

So maybe rather than 21 days of being complaint free,  take it 21 minutes at a time, then the next 21 minutes, or smaller increments. Live in the moment and look for the good in that moment.   My 2 cents for this evening or is is morning.  

Love ya, darling and wish you well with your quest to be complaint free 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Robin M

[Pen]

57 minutes ago, Eliana said:

I was like that until I encountered loss and tragedy that I couldn't do that for.

I'm still more Pollyanna than not & my glass is still half full... but there are things for which there is no fortunately that brings any comfort...

I think believing that the blessings outweigh the sorrow is different from there always being a fortunately ending.

For example: the sister of one of my dear friends was kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and brutally killed (at about 12, as I recall).  There is absolutely no fortunately spin to put on that for her parents.  Do they have many other blessings in their lives?  Oh, yes.  Lots of good things before and since & lots to find joy in now... and they do.  But there's no positive that can be linked to what happened to their daughter.  And to suggest so to them would be horrific.

Can we experience horrific tragedy, find ways to live with that loss and grief & be happy, optimistic people?  Yes. though for some the grief will always be there, it might fade a bit with time, but it might never leave them completely.

What I'm pushing back on isn't optimism or positive thinking, it's the idea that every tragedy can be spun to have a fortunately ending.

...the ordinary losses and vicissitudes can, and we can certainly take the shattered fragments of our lives, selves, and dreams after a horrific loss, and build a new life, self and dreams that are shaped by what we've experienced.... and might be filled with beautiful things that we are grateful for... but that doesn't, for some things make it a 'fortunately' ending, either for personal situations or for systemic injustices.  (there is no fortunately to tag onto slavery or genocide or the Holocaust.

I don't want to make this a grim thread, and, again, I enthusiastically support people finding tools to see the glass as half full, to be more positive about their lives and the people in it!  ..and I do think your fortunately reframing is a wonderful one for many situations!  ...I just want to name that it isn't a good fit for everything.

 

 

 

The way I am understanding the challenge would be to look at a situation and decide if it rises to the level of a kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and brutally killed child type problem?

Or is it just a kid dyed their hair green type problem? 

 

Even if it It is the former, truly bad experience,  to ask oneself what path to take forward.

One could become so unable to see a “fortunately” such as “fortunately our other child is still alive,” for example, that the other child is essentially abandoned or has to take care of the grieving parents — thus adding another tragedy on to the first tragedy.  I know situations, not exactly the same, where that type of thing has happened. And I think famously JM Barrie’s mother emotionally abandoned him due to being devastated by his brother’s death.  It isn’t that grieving was wrong, but permanently giving way to grieving probably caused additional hurt.

 

(Also I don’t consider “complaining” and “grieving” to be the same thing.) 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Pen

[Rosie_0801]

I think sometimes people want other people to have treatment for ptsd when the "p" bit hasn't come into play. Treating current trauma like past trauma doesn't work.

I also think it is so weird in such a very human way that people can collect more extended sympathy for a dead pet than a dead human.

[frogger]

I like how Mercy and others have tried to define complaining.

I don't think grieving counts as mentioned above.

I don't think sharing problems count, especially if you need help or a change needs to be made. Especially if you have ideas and are willing to take on the problem solving.

I will say that Americans like to complain a lot though. You can do 50 things right in a day and mess up one thing and the only thing you will hear about is that one little thing. Trust me employers, employees, volunteer leaders, children, parents, spouses they only hear complaints. The people who tend to complain the loudest tend to be people who have no idea how complicated an issue is or that other people have a different opinion and a leader may be trying to weigh the costs of two ideas. I see sports fans calling NFL players pathetic. 😳 I don't watch sports or care about them much but I'm pretty sure that complaining couch potato can't do better. 

When we started coming out of lock down I knew this was going to be really hard on leaders and business owners along with others but I decided I was going to start thanking people and noticing when they did some right or kind or just did their job well. I kind of fell off the band wagon when I tried to implement school but I think I need to get back to encouraging a person a day.   If I miss a day that's ok, I can do two in one day, even if it's just a text.

 

Thanks for the reminder.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by frogger
Homophone attack

[Pen]

14 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think sometimes people want other people to have treatment for ptsd when the "p" bit hasn't come into play. Treating current trauma like past trauma doesn't work.

 

Yes.

 

I think there may also be epigenetics issues such that something like having had grandparents in a holocaust concentration camp could epigenetically decrease ability to handle stressors, and it may also have increased disturbed parenting for generations so that the holocaust generation may have been less able to parent their children well, and those children then as adults became unable to parent their own children as well and so on.  

(Using a Holocaust as example from Eliana’s post , I know you have your own personal life situations.) 

 

At same time, reminder of there being PTSD treatment available if situation and timing is 

right for that is good to keep in mind

 

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, frogger said:

I like how Mercy and others have tried to define complaining.

I don't think grieving counts as mentioned above.

I don't think sharing problems count, especially if you need help or a change needs to be made. Especially if you have ideas and are willing to take on the problem solving.

I will say that Americans like to complain a lot though. You can do 50 things right in a day and mess up one thing and the only thing you will hear about is that one little thing. Trust me employers, employees, volunteer leaders, children, parents, spouses they only hear complaints. The people who tend to complain the loudest tend to be people who have no idea how complicated an issue is or that other people have a different opinion and a leader may be trying to weigh the costs of two ideas. I see sports fans calling NFL players pathetic. 😳 I don't watch sports or care about them much but I'm pretty sure that complaining couch potato can't do better. 

When we started coming out of lock down I knew this was going to be really hard on leaders and business owners along with others but I decided I was going to start thanking people and noticing when they did some right or kind or just did their job well. I kind of fell off the band wagon when I tried to implement school but I think I need to get back to encouraging a person a day. If I miss a day that's ok, I can do two in one day, even if it's just a text.

 

 

. 

 

Active thanking and encouraging is probably another great practice.

Ripple effect could hugely maximize each such action too

 

Because Brian Hugged His Mother https://www.amazon.com/dp/1883220890/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_p5NLFb0DXXC9G

[Ausmumof3]

19 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

I think sometimes people want other people to have treatment for ptsd when the "p" bit hasn't come into play. Treating current trauma like past trauma doesn't work.

I also think it is so weird in such a very human way that people can collect more extended sympathy for a dead pet than a dead human.

There was two stories on our news that really struck me a year ago.  A principal of a school was seen dragging a child with autism by the arm and a dog daycare workers was seen rolling a dog that was being a handful.  The comments on social media about the first story were all along the lines of “little *expletive* bet he deserved it”.  The comments on the second were all about picketing the ladies business and all sympathy for the dog.

[Hyacinth]

I was up at 1:30am because of perimenopausal night sweats and then insomnia. Fortunately, the Hive always provides interesting discussions. 😁

I often use a similar approach to “fortunately,” but mine is to use “and.” I like this a little better in some situations because it doesn’t minimize the real sadness or grief or discomfort or whatever. It holds the thoughts in tension without competition.  

I like the idea of a gratitude challenge. Or maybe an “evaluate how much and about what I complain” challenge. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Hyacinth

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Eliana said:

Sometimes there is no visible redemption for a tragedy.  Sometimes things aren't okay, and aren't going to be okay.

Going deep for a moment...this is what complicated grief for me when I lost my baby girl. I wanted/expected that God would redeem her death because if she just senselessly died on the day of her birth, then how is God good? I thought we would adopt some children and that would sort of redeem her death. Or we would still have six or seven children and it would be “okay” when I had more babies afterwards. Or that something surprising would happen that would sort of make it “better” that I did not get to raise her. 

I did not really begin to heal from that devastation until I let go of this belief; until I accepted that sometimes life is not okay and it just isn’t. That it is part of the human condition. 

*   *   *   *   *

Having said and acknowledged that, though, it is certainly true that I would be better off if I could stop constantly focusing on the thing that’s imperfect. It is 6:14am and I have already switched my bracelet because, upon opening my refrigerator for cream, I noticed that my son put the pickle jar back on the shelf that’s for beverages. I muttered, “That doesn’t go there.” And then I realized I had issued my first complaint in under ten minutes of leaving my bed. 🤭

I haven’t read the book, but I intuit the “rules” of this challenge as being about pickle jars, not infant loss. I don’t think the point would be to minimize a true hardship (although @Amy Gen has some interesting pivots on some heavy topics and kudos to her for it!) To me, the point is to help change my point of reference from grumbling about where the pickle jar is placed, to being thankful we have enough food that we have shelves divided for whole categories of food and beverages. 

[Pawz4me]

25 minutes ago, Quill said:

 

I haven’t read the book, but I intuit the “rules” of this challenge as being about pickle jars, not infant loss. I don’t think the point would be to minimize a true hardship (although @Amy Gen has some interesting pivots on some heavy topics and kudos to her for it!) To me, the point is to help change my point of reference from grumbling about where the pickle jar is placed, to being thankful we have enough food that we have shelves divided for whole categories of food and beverages. 

As someone who has been going through some truly bad carp for the past few years (a spouse dealing with metastatic cancer) and has had my share of other truly bad carp to deal with in the past (having to make the decision to remove my mother from life support being a notable standout) -- I agree with @Quill. I didn't take @Pen's post to be about the big stuff, but about being more mindful about not complaining about the pickle jar on the wrong shelf. Dealing with truly bad stuff has made me acutely aware of how often people do complain about truly trivial stuff. There's probably been multiple dozens of times over the past few years when I've read some complaint on here and wondered if the person had any inkling how lucky she was to have the mental space to devote to complaining about such an utterly trivial thing. OTOH, I try to be mindful about that, too. If you're lucky enough to not have a different frame of reference, I suppose the pickle jar on the wrong shelf could possibly be a Really Big Deal for some.

Anyway, I took Pen's challenge to be about the trivial stuff and having a general default mode of complaining, not about the really big deal stuff.

[regentrude]

22 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Dealing with truly bad stuff has made me acutely aware of how often people do complain about truly trivial stuff. There's probably been multiple dozens of times over the past few years when I've read some complaint on here and wondered if the person had any inkling how lucky she was to have the mental space to devote to complaining about such an utterly trivial thing.

OTOH, it could also be that person is under a tremendous stress from truly bad stuff they are unable to articulate, and the buildup of that stress releases in complaining about something trivial. When they lament some minor screw up, what is hurting them inside might well be something in the truly-bad-stuff category. They may try very hard not to burden anybody by talking about their dying loved one and just lose it when the barista gives them the wrong drink. We never know.

Edited October 26, 2020 by regentrude

[Ausmumof3]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

As someone who has been going through some truly bad carp for the past few years (a spouse dealing with metastatic cancer) and has had my share of other truly bad carp to deal with in the past (having to make the decision to remove my mother from life support being a notable standout) -- I agree with @Quill. I didn't take @Pen's post to be about the big stuff, but about being more mindful about not complaining about the pickle jar on the wrong shelf. Dealing with truly bad stuff has made me acutely aware of how often people do complain about truly trivial stuff. There's probably been multiple dozens of times over the past few years when I've read some complaint on here and wondered if the person had any inkling how lucky she was to have the mental space to devote to complaining about such an utterly trivial thing. OTOH, I try to be mindful about that, too. If you're lucky enough to not have a different frame of reference, I suppose the pickle jar on the wrong shelf could possibly be a Really Big Deal for some.

Anyway, I took Pen's challenge to be about the trivial stuff and having a general default mode of complaining, not about the really big deal stuff.

Yep, except sometimes it’s really not about the pickle jar.  It’s about something else that can’t be dealt with or talked about so they complain about the pickle jar instead.  sometimes it’s death by a million paper cuts too.  People can be living in precarious or untenable situations even without a major grief.  But they can still be pretty overwhelmed by life in one way or another.  

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, Eliana said:

 

Sometimes there is no visible redemption for a tragedy.  Sometimes things aren't okay, and aren't going to be okay.

Sometimes we need to learn how to live inside that loss & sometimes that involves being able to name just how ***not okay*** things are.

The general culture we live in isn't comfortable with that.  We have so much trouble accepting deep grief, without a pretty twist or a silver lining.

.
...but we need diverse toolboxes & to know that not ever situation calls for a hammer...


 

100%.   

I went to the funeral of a 5 year old child last week.   The older sibling is one of my students in the middle school.   It was gut wrenching.   I visited the home a few days after the funeral.   I will visit again this week.   They are torn apart.

[DawnM]

This morning I was the only one out on car rider taking temperatures of students.   I was late to get back in the building and missed my homeroom lesson I was meant to go teach.

That is a complaint.   Maybe I need to start a thread on complaining for 21 days.

😜

(this is light hearted by the way, I am not trying to be a downer, just trying to make some light of the situation.)

[Pen]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

Going deep for a moment...this is what complicated grief for me when I lost my baby girl. I wanted/expected that God would redeem her death because if she just senselessly died on the day of her birth, then how is God good? I thought we would adopt some children and that would sort of redeem her death. Or we would still have six or seven children and it would be “okay” when I had more babies afterwards. Or that something surprising would happen that would sort of make it “better” that I did not get to raise her. 

I did not really begin to heal from that devastation until I let go of this belief; until I accepted that sometimes life is not okay and it just isn’t. That it is part of the human condition. 

*   *   *   *   *

Having said and acknowledged that, though, it is certainly true that I would be better off if I could stop constantly focusing on the thing that’s imperfect. It is 6:14am and I have already switched my bracelet because, upon opening my refrigerator for cream, I noticed that my son put the pickle jar back on the shelf that’s for beverages. I muttered, “That doesn’t go there.” And then I realized I had issued my first complaint in under ten minutes of leaving my bed. 🤭

I haven’t read the book, but I intuit the “rules” of this challenge as being about pickle jars, not infant loss. I don’t think the point would be to minimize a true hardship (although @Amy Gen has some interesting pivots on some heavy topics and kudos to her for it!) To me, the point is to help change my point of reference from grumbling about where the pickle jar is placed, to being thankful we have enough food that we have shelves divided for whole categories of food and beverages. 

 

Yes.

also for those who read the first chapter, I realize some/most posters on this thread had an extremely negative trigger reaction about the dog story 

the way I understood it was that the story about the dog hit by a car is a reasonable thing to put in a book to illustrate a point for a wide age range audience including one’s parishioners and including possibly child age readers for whom some other “bad things” might be too heavy, adult, or personally revealing about their pastor.

 And for me the way the narrator of my audio version read it, the part about the author’s knee jerk complaining reaction came across as quite funny and also relatable. 

 

 for me my understanding was that there was a relatively big thing going on 1) a badly injured dog in severe pain needed to go to vet, and 2) a young child needed comfort about her dog dying and in terrible pain.   - Instead  of doing those things the Dad/author was angrily and dangerously  rushing after the driver who hit the dog to complain. His complaining did not help the dog, the child, or even the Dad—instead of a useful vent he potentially endangered himself, others and worked himself up into yet more anger from just wanting to yell to wanting to physically fight. And had he crashed he might have left his daughter with a dying dog and dying father at same time.  

Since nothing really really awful happened - no car crash, no one else run over on way to catch the driver who hit the dog, and he lived to tell the tale on himself, it could be a good story to illustrate a situation of complaining not being beneficial to possibly be a help to consider his story for situations that are bigger deals than pickle jars .  I understood it as suggesting that one consider whether complaining is the the thing to do, or whether something else would be better to do.  If complaining *is* the best thing, it is not a forbidden option.   

 

As I read it he was not at all criticizing grief , on the contrary he was showing up his own knee jerk complaining overreaction as the wrong thing to be doing when instead he should have been there for his daughter who was grieving.  He also did not criticize the dog screaming in pain, but again rather was showing up his own knee jerk driving away to complain reaction - when he could have been driving the dog more quickly to vet. 

[Amy Gen]

I see complaining as sometimes being a substitute for working on the actual problem or taking action. 
 

I got irritated on Friday. We had a swim meet and marshals actually have an important job to make sure everyone follows the rules and stays safe. Some people think they are doing the job if they just show up and are a warm body.  One mom used the time to get her steps in. She just power walked in a circle the whole time and never looked at the pool once. 
 

I could have spent the whole rest of the day bitching about it, because that is how I felt. Instead, I started thinking about how to make things run more smoothly next time. I’m going to write up exact instructions for each post. If anyone doesn’t follow directions, I’m going to start hand picking my own team of people I know will take the job seriously and I’ll have them entered into the computer before the job slots become available to the whole team. 
 

I’m also checking in with a few other people and asking them to keep me honest and tell me if I start just picking the people I enjoy.  Because of Covid, only the people with jobs get to be on the pool deck and see their kids swim, so there is a ton of competition for the job slots. Once I started trying to find a solution, I didn’t feel the desire to complain any longer. 
 

I realize that there is not a silver lining for every tragedy, but I admire people who are motivated to do something positive with their pain. There is a family here in town who lost their daughter who loved Christmas. So they have decorated their yard very over the top and every weekend in December Santa is there to talk to local kids. Seeing the joy that it brings others doesn’t make up for their loss. It doesn’t take away their pain, but it helps them not become bitter and just dwell on the senselessness of it. 
 

I agree that grieving and complaining are very different. I also realize that not every problem has a solution. Sometimes what has to change is me. 

[Violet Crown]

Of course people can be overwhelmed, and express it in what seem to be minor complaints. That's exactly why I would find a "21 Days of Judging Others' Complaining" challenge to be inappropriate.

My own complaining, though, is usually of the "That reminds me of this sub-optimal thing someone did a few years ago, did I ever tell you that story?" type. I'm happy to take up the challenge of thinking before I babble for a few weeks.

ETA: I started exactly one of those complaints yesterday evening (a few hours after signing on to the challenge), and Middle Girl interrupted with "Oh Mom's gotten started on that one again." 😬 Teenagers are like consciences with extra snark.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Violet Crown

[Little Green Leaves]

I think I do a lot of what I'd call gentle complaining with those I'm closest to.

I spent the morning with one of my oldest friends the other day. Our conversations almost always go the same way: 

"I talked to so and so and they said x thing which upset me..." 

"The plumber came and now we have x problem with the water..."

"Pizza is three times more expensive now than when we were kids..."

Then we talk about it. Why did it upset you? Why would this person do that? Who else acts like this? One of us makes a joke. I find this very cathartic. I do this with my mother, with my female cousins, and with some of my other friends. (Somehow this conversation doesn't work the same way with men.)

To me, this kind of complaining is a harmless way to lighten our loads. If I wanted to get pretentious (and I do) I'd compare it to an old blues song or a tragic poem, the kind that's so well-expressed that it cheers you up. I mean, I am not talking about grand tragedies here -- just the little things in life -- but I handle them better when I can share them.

[SKL]

I'm gonna venture a guess that that book wasn't written in 2020.  😛

I dunno, 21 days is a long time.  I mean, I have 13yo and 14yo daughters.  What do you think I am, a saint?  Even saints complained.  Mother Teresa would have had a few things to say about my life right now.  😛

It's a nice idea, but really, 21 days without complaining?  What counts as a complaint?

[SKL]

8 hours ago, regentrude said:

OTOH, it could also be that person is under a tremendous stress from truly bad stuff they are unable to articulate, and the buildup of that stress releases in complaining about something trivial. When they lament some minor screw up, what is hurting them inside might well be something in the truly-bad-stuff category. They may try very hard not to burden anybody by talking about their dying loved one and just lose it when the barista gives them the wrong drink. We never know.

Yes, I can always tell when my sister has something really bad going on, because she starts ranting about whether the toilet seat is up or down.

The other thing is that it is somewhat therapeutic to release even minor stresses into an anonymous universe.  I do that ... it doesn't mean I'm bitchy ... most likely, my tone in my head is humorous, and I figure others will relate and we can all chuckle and move on.  I don't have anyone IRL that I can tell most things to.  The little things do build up over time.

[Pen]

12 minutes ago, SKL said:

I'm gonna venture a guess that that book wasn't written in 2020.  😛

I dunno, 21 days is a long time.  I mean, I have 13yo and 14yo daughters.  What do you think I am, a saint?  Even saints complained.  Mother Teresa would have had a few things to say about my life right now.  😛

It's a nice idea, but really, 21 days without complaining?  What counts as a complaint?

 

I think you decide for yourself. 🙂

Like if you were a nail biter going for 21 days without nail biting you could decide whether a little nibble counts or not 😜 

 

 

Eta: if someone were habitually biting down to quick, a reduction to just biting nails a tiny bit could be a big improvement.   Others might not bite nails and such a self challenge would be silly. Yet others might feel that nail biting is all in all a healthy outlet and want to continue.  

 

If u want to do it decide your own rules for yourself and if you don’t want to, don’t  😁😁😁.  Totally voluntary and self directed.  Like if offered an 🍎 apple - It’s fine to take it or not.  

Edited October 26, 2020 by Pen

[Robin M]

Someone mentioned above about smaller things affecting over the larger issues. We equate it to our cup overflowing in our household when a simple upset turns into a major deal.  Your glass is filling up with water with each stress and the last thing that makes it overflow is usually what we bitch about because it's the last thing we remember or what is currently on our mind. So when we find ourselves upset over something that seems simple, we usually look deeper to see what came before.  

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Robin M said:

Someone mentioned above about smaller things affecting over the larger issues. We equate it to our cup overflowing in our household when a simple upset turns into a major deal.  Your glass is filling up with water with each stress and the last thing that makes it overflow is usually what we bitch about because it's the last thing we remember or what is currently on our mind. So when we find ourselves upset over something that seems simple, we usually look deeper to see what came before.  

 

That’s true.

sort of <broken shoe lace as last event before melt down>  phenomenon  

Pretty common 

 

I’ll be interested in seeing whether trying this approach seems to tend to increase or decrease that for myself. 

 

 

I can’t seem to find new book thread for this week btw. 

😊

Edited October 26, 2020 by Pen