Attitude issues in DD8

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[katilac]

Oh, and to go back to brushing hair for her for a minute (in a completely separate post, daring of me I know!): I don't remember every becoming easier for my sister to deal with, lol, but one we got into a routine and I didn't react negatively to her complaints, dd did eventually get much better about it and it became a treasured time for me to connect with her. So much so that I was sad and a bit affronted when her younger sister took over the job 😋

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

I'm a big believer in bodily autonomy, but I'd start seriously pushing the hair cutting option.  I'd collect pictures of cute short hair cuts.  I'd talk up how cute people with short hair are.  I'd talk about how if you have short hair, you essentially never have to brush it.  I'd buy as much conditioner and detangler and those ouchless hair brushes for the meantime, but I'd seriously do a major campaign for short hair.  I'd enlist family and friends to cut their hair.  I'd talk about how easy it is for hair to grow back if you don't like it.  I'd offer hair dye (Overtone conditioner) with a short hair cut.   Fighting this battle every single day just seriously sucks.  

I might even offer to pay her to cut her hair.  Oh!  Talk about donating hair and how it helps people.  

Edited October 22, 2020 by Terabith

[prairiewindmomma]

Ok, based on your comments....

1. When you feel that rise in frustration consciously pause and breathe. This will feel really unnatural for a while. It gets easier. Refocus your thoughts on the fact that this is your beloved little daughter in front of you and that she should be treated with patience and respect. Stay paused until you have yourself together. Seriously. The task before you may go undone for a while but your real work is learning to control yourself. Focus on you controlling you. 
 

2. Why nag about the hair? Keep a basket nearby where you eat with a brush, conditioning spray, and bands and simply do the hair right before you eat breakfast, and again at bedtime. Resume doing her hair for a time until the habit is re-established and then when the time comes ask if she wants to do her hairstyle for the day or if she wants you to. If things fall apart again after a period of days simply say after hair washing, “Let’s put it into a braid.” 
 

3. I can’t stand whining either. My commisseration. Whining at my house results in a raised eyebrow for offense #1 and if it continues, they are told that they can either choose to control their voice and interact politely or if not, they will be excused to go nap or read a book quietly because they aren’t in good control of themselves.

 

[Bootsie]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

No, I don't want her to be immediately and cheerfully compliant with my wishes all the time... just to do fairly expected and structured work that she knows she's supposed to. That means editing her work when asked to, trying to figure out what words mean when we're speaking Russian and when I give her hints, and trying things in math when I ask her to. It's never all that surprising. 

I had one who is extremely strong-willed but I also slowly learned that sometimes when I thought the child wasn't trying (and it seemed so simple to me if the child would just listen and do it), the child was deeply engrossed in thinking and problem-solving.  I had to change my focus from the output produced (or not produced) to the fact that I was providing learning opportunities and the child was engaged in thinking.  Ironically, the child was taking ownership--of what was important to the child--not of what was necessarily important to me at the moment.  

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

We have a schedule! I love schedules. It has hair brushing on it 😛 . I was doing it for them for a while, but then I got really tired of calling two recalcitrant kids over to me while they shrieked about how they hated it, and argued about who was going to go first. With DD4, not brushing it for a day isn't a big deal, but brushing DD8's hair after a day off is ridiculous -- it's a rat's nest and it REALLY hurts. But some days, I just don't have the energy to argue about it. 

Which is where it feels like we should cut her hair 😛 . 

dd4 goes first this week, dd8 goes first next week . . . 

I'd consider doing it before breakfast if they're hungry in the morning, and letting dad do it in the afternoon or evening (before snack, before supper, before playtime with dad?).  

[Bootsie]

So, what happens if the hair isn't brushed?  DD never liked her hair brushed and hated hair cuts.  A big pony tail pulled held the knots out of her face many days.  She went through a stage in elementary school where a bandana was a trademark and I didn't have to see the mess under the bandana.  She is now a young adult and has survived (and spent the last year as an au pair for a girl who LOVES to have her hair done--so their interactions have been comical).  It just wasn't worth my time and energy to be concerned about her hair when she wasn't.

DS on the other hand begged to go to the barber shop and has worn his hair in many different styles (currently longer than his sister's).   He is meticulous about washing and coming his hair.  

[Arctic Bunny]

19 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, we do stuff like that. Cleaning is easier, though -- we just do it until it's done. But what do we do with the word "jam" if all hints don't get it guessed? 😛  

Hair is a little different, because I simply want to stop having struggles about it. I don't like stuff that's a struggle built into the day. 

Just reading along, and had to say, I bet if she wanted jam on her toast/muffin, she’d guess pretty quick 😉

[fairfarmhand]

I haven't read all of the responses. But here's what I saw from my extremely independent oldest.

Maturity is a real thing. So often in school I gave her work to "challenge" her. And that was good. But I forgot that the lessons that she was doing were designed for much older students who have longer attention spans and better self control. I mean, just because a kid is advanced, it doesn't mean that they can sit at age 8 and focus like they will at age 15. So if I could go back, I would have given shorter lessons when she was smaller. It didn't matter if she *could* do the harder math if she couldn't maintain the focus for long enough to do quality work. 

So for instance, for editing stuff carefully. If she wrote the whole paper in one day, that's alot of brain work for a kid. Give her an extra day for editing. If she edits poorly, just look at it and go, This is okay, but I still spot a few things that you can improve on. Want to give it another try? 

If she wants to do something in math the "hard" way. Okay. Let her. And then say, "I'd love to show you an easier way to work it. Watch here on the marker board." 

Don't forget that she's still very much 8. And despite early academic maturity and what seems to be self motivation and maturity, she's still a little girl. It's pretty normal for kids to whine about hair cutting, argue over school and want to skip out on hard things.

For hair, I've had three girls with long hair at various times. I'd give her a concrete goal "Brush hair every day and check off the calendar, and you only get to check it of if you do it with no drama. If hair brushing becomes an issue more than five days a month (whether it's whining or just not doing it.) It's time to get a hair cut." BTW, just cutting 4 inches made a huge difference in the way my girls could manage their hair. The snarly bits were mostly at the bottom, so chopping some of it helped and then getting regular trims.  We also braided hair a lot.

 

 

[Terabith]

4 minutes ago, Ordinary Shoes said:

Waist-length - wow! Would she be okay with cutting some of the length off of it still leaving it long? Waist-length is a lot of hair. I'm sure you've tried detangling spray, right? I never had much luck with it but it did help a little bit. Does she leave it down or do you have to do her hair every day? I'd worry about lice with hair that long. Ask me how I know about that one...😬 

 

Dear God, yes, the lice.  I wound up shaving my head five years ago after our THIRD bout of lice within six months (and no, it wasn't that we just weren't ever really getting rid of it; they were true re-infections due to school retreats where kids shared helmets).  

I guess an advantage of covid is that lice is extremely unlikely to happen.  

[Xahm]

I've had many similar struggles with my eight year old daughter and almost seven year old son. In fact, she got a hair cut at the beginning of summer that wasn't her choice, but she did admit afterwards that it helped. For that, my husband was trying to convince her into a pixie cut, which he finds both adorable and sensible, but she found horrifying. I stood up for her/with her and kept it shoulder length. We don't do "play parents off each other" stuff, but letting her watch that play out and be part of it helped her relate better to us both. She saw her dad listen to reason and saw me take her side. There was also discussion of how, if she still refused to brush it adequately, we would have to go with a pixie cut. 

One trick that has helped me a ton is using code words. We don't do it for everything because I can't keep track of all that, but for big things. Like one child had trouble a few years back telling a story and then not wanting to admit it was a lie. They might reflexively say "yes I brushed my teeth" and immediately regret lying, but feel stuck. I told them they could say "Look out! There's a purple elephant behind you!" to let me know that what they said was true in purple elephant land, not our world, and then they could just tell me what was happening in our world. 

So, I might say to my kids, "look, learning this is important, but not as important as you learning to focus. What's a phrase I could say that would help you remember what is important?" It helps for the phrase to be silly and somewhat unrelated because it short circuits that reflexive defensiveness that all people usually have. I'd also tell them that I'm still learning to control my temper, and while teaching them is important, more important is for me to control my temper. I'd ask them to tell me a secret code phrase, like "would you like a cup of tea and a cracker?" when it looks like I need a few minutes to calm down. Then, we'd try to honor that together. 

[Danae]

40 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, we do stuff like that. Cleaning is easier, though -- we just do it until it's done. But what do we do with the word "jam" if all hints don't get it guessed? 😛  

Hair is a little different, because I simply want to stop having struggles about it. I don't like stuff that's a struggle built into the day. 

 

I think we went through about six months where every hair-combing session included me saying “I have my scissors right here,” the kid saying “no, no!” and me saying “then stop whining.”

 

With the younger we fell into a routine where he got to play a game on the iPad while I combed his hair.  That worked well.

 

And I second the earlier poster that said a trim can make a big difference.  When you start to get split ends the tangles get worse, so trimming just a few inches can make haircare much easier.

 

[katilac]

14 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So what were your expectations for your daughter in terms of brushing her hair? What was her job and what was yours? 

Her job was to walk over and sit down. My job was to spray an abundance of detangler, brush her hair, and listen to the piteous cries of a wounded animal twice a day. 

Once I accepted my fate and made only sympathetic noises about her complaining, things really did get better and eventually it became a good time for both of us. My kids were mostly cooperative, and I figured everyone is entitled to have a 'thing' or two. Something they are annoying and unreasonable about, lol. 

This dd just graduated from college, still has long and easily tangled hair, and still occasionally asks someone to brush it for her. I'm pretty sure she'll make sure I get into the good nursing home, so there's that. 

12 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, we do stuff like that. Cleaning is easier, though -- we just do it until it's done. But what do we do with the word "jam" if all hints don't get it guessed? 😛  

Hair is a little different, because I simply want to stop having struggles about it. I don't like stuff that's a struggle built into the day. 

If blatant hinting doesn't get her to "jam" then I'd tell her it's jam and move on. If it's continual, I would stop asking her to guess words for at least a week (with NO comment, just do it), and see if it's better once I resume. Sometimes they just get caught up in resisting something for its own sake, and you need to break that pattern. If things don't get better after a break, and I think it's an important part of the lesson, then I'd put Russian right before A Coveted Activity, and guessing X number of words is part of Russian. You could also try shaking things up a bit while keeping the same essential method. My kids liked earning points. Two points for every correct word. This word was extra hard and you guessed it without all the hints, five points! Pick one random word per lesson: that's the Double Jeopardy word, you get double points! Points didn't mean much, we did some silly stuff like erase the whiteboard list after so many points, do the dance of joy after so many points. Eh, they liked it. 

Also, don't discount that learning a new language is hard, and that people often feel stupid while learning. She might be thinking "jam, of course!" but then the anxiety part of her brain goes, no, maybe she means the JAR of jam?? is she pointing at the lid, is it lid? she's given me a million hints, I'm going to look like an idiot if I say the wrong thing! And yes, she can be thinking that way even if she doesn't articulate it, and even if you would never in a million years tell her that her guess was stupid. Because human brains are wonky. 

Ooh, maybe she would like making YOU guess foreign words? Dad could help her make a list of words in a language you don't know, and she gets a turn at being the one who knows the word and gives the hints! She might like it more if she gets to turn the tables, lol. 

Back to hair: I agree with trying not to have struggles built into the day. Brushing long hair was one of my exceptions, because I have those positive sister-memories and I know long hair was important to me (a good memory is a cursed things sometimes). 

8 can be a hard age, but it's good practice for 12, which is much worse. You're welcome. 

 

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, katilac said:

8 can be a hard age, but it's good practice for 12, which is much worse. You're welcome. 

 

Ages 7-9 were hell here, but my kids were wonderful at 12.  Like, a massive joy and delight and genuinely helpful.  Other than serious mental health crises (which sucked majorly), honestly my kids have been awesome once we got past age 10.  

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Given my passion for optimization, you may be unsurprised that we already have nice wet brushes and detangler and a spray bottle filled with water 🙂 . 

Water never worked all that well as a detangler here.  We had to get actual detangling conditioner.  

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Water never worked all that well as a detangler here.  We had to get actual detangling conditioner.  

Yes! A very good conditioner worked better here. I had to start springing for a creamy leave in type conditioner over the “no more tears” spray.

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, geez, that's just great 😛 . Does it get easier in between as a break or does it just ramp up? 

In terms of foreign language, we don't translate the words at all, so it's crucial for me to have her try to figure them out. I have to say I've been very happy with our mini-immersion experience: we do about an hour a day, and she's starting to REALLY talk. And that's without the ridiculous amounts of fighting or sulkiness that the "one parent, one language" model can entail. 

I've been talking about this with DH, and he agrees with some of you that we just need to think about how to make sure I don't blow my lid at her 😉 . I think there must be a mix of structural and attitude solutions here. Like, if we have issues, the rest of the day is worksheets, and we don't do Russian cartoons is what he suggested, which maybe isn't a bad idea. The problem is that with intensive teaching, it's really easy for me to get into frustration "red zones," where it's hard to snap out of it. 

Honestly, we're in the middle of a pandemic; your kid is seriously ahead academically.....I'd keep some seriously basic worksheets around, and if there's a major fight, I'd just let it go for that day.  If it happens too often, I'd hand her a worksheet.  But I'd try really hard to give grace and keep both of you out of red zone and not to develop a confrontational relationship with academics.  

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[EKS]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

But it's all too complicated to figure out the correct consequences for this kind of generic attitude.

I think that it helps to think of the sort of thing I did as removing privileges rather than consequences.  Frankly, the natural consequence when a kid cops an attitude is the parent getting cranky, yelling, not wanting to be around the kid, whatever.  Removing privileges is more like (but not identical to) what happens when a (generally) responsible adult doesn't get their work done--they have to do the work while they might have been having fun.  

I was never good at having kids earn stuff in small increments (clear the table and you get to watch TV for 5 minutes, for example) or with taking stuff away in small increments.  Hence the month long experience with no screens.  It definitely made an impression, and I didn't have to keep track of a bunch of stuff.

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

We don't do screens except for Russian cartoons, but perhaps that could be it. 

I actually purposely got my kids addicted to screens so that I could take them away.  Of course this was back before the internet/social media/video games were as much of a problem as they are today.

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 25, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

The nice thing about her picking so much of her work is she GENUINELY loves the academic stuff she does. Honest to goodness loves. She won't necessarily do it outside of her work time, but she loves the ability to use it.

She's been asking to practice Russian outside of our class time, actually, which seriously annoys DD4, lol. So we can't, because I want to respect their desires about languages in order not to have negative language associations. And she uses math with a lot of pleasure whenever it comes up. And she used binary as her code for another class 🙂. And she reads Murderous Maths and Horrible Science with much joy. 

Right, which is why it seems like a safe thing that if she's having a bad day where she doesn't want to edit a proof or something, that just *not doing it* that day seems like a legitimate option.  

Like, I don't think that would be a good solution for years, but for off days?  In a worldwide pandemic?  

It's not like your kid isn't going to learn if not forced to.  

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Right, which is why it seems like a safe thing that if she's having a bad day where she doesn't want to edit a proof or something, that just *not doing it* that day seems like a legitimate option.  

Like, I don't think that would be a good solution for years, but for off days?  In a worldwide pandemic?  

It's not like your kid isn't going to learn if not forced to.  

So just brainstorming...

What about if you take the paper and mention that there's a problem. She cops an attitude. You respond like this:

"Hmmm...Well, it isn't correct. And you have a poor attitude. I want you to go your room for about 20 minutes and see if you can get it together to fix this problem. I'll set a timer, and then you can have another go at this."

If she still has a lousy attitude when she returns, just take the paper, set it aside and say, "I can see you're not up to this for today. You can start with this tomorrow during math time." If I got eyerolls, I'd give a glare and tell her to go back to her room till she could behave with respect.

Bottom line, she has to make the corrections before she can move on in math, which for my over achiever kid would be very motivating. 

[EKS]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

So what's the privilege that might be removed, screens aside? Perhaps fun activities for the day? 

Perhaps--but the thing I liked about screens is that it wasn't me not spending time with them and it didn't punish anyone else along with the perpetrator.  So, not going to sports practice (as an example) wasn't fair to the rest of the team.  Not baking cookies with the kids wasn't fair to the other kid or the rest of the family (who wouldn't get to eat them).  And so on.

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, that wouldn't work for me, lol. I wanted to remove screen-related conflict, because I can't abide whining! 

I had rigid rules about when screens could be used, and I never wavered--so no whining there.  But again, this was back before screens were as ubiquitous as they are today.

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Maybe I really should just leave some worksheets around. Fraction addition and simplification if she won't bother to work, why not? She's already good at it, but she could get faster... 

Now the problem is really just convincing myself IN THE MIDDLE OF IT to knock it off. That's the problem. I've made all sorts of rules for myself like "Don't ask her the same question more than 3 times!" and then I invariably break it. Like most people, I'm not always good at following my own rules. I tend to have to tinker with rules to make them stick... 

Same. Me too. We often KNOW the right thing to do, but in the moment words just start flying out our mouths.

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[EKS]

6 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Right, which is why it seems like a safe thing that if she's having a bad day where she doesn't want to edit a proof or something, that just *not doing it* that day seems like a legitimate option.  

You would think so, but I always, always made sure that my children would perceive that stopping any sort of homeschooling activity was my decision, not theirs, and I'm certain that this expectation was a major reason that most of the time I didn't get pushback on things (the story I told above not withstanding).  Now, it wasn't that it was always my way or the highway, because behind the scenes I was always evaluating how things were going, whether I was asking too much (or too little), and changing course as needed, but the kids were probably unaware of how much tinkering I was doing especially from moment to moment.   

[Xahm]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

OK, that is a VERY cool idea -- thank you for the creative suggestion. So perhaps we could a code word for "I'm having trouble focusing and realizing that what you're asking me is important" or for "you sound frustrated and that's making it hard for me to think" or for "you seem to need a minute to calm down"? 

Yeah, like, I'd probably talk with the kid in question during a relaxed time about the "look, a squirrel" stereotype and how true it can be. Then, we'd talk about how other things can act like squirrels, like a rumbly tummy or some music from outside. Sometimes we need to ignore distractions, sometimes we need to get rid of them. We'd talk about how we sometimes need a snack break, sometimes we just need to remind ourselves that lunch is in five minutes and we can wait. Sometimes we can shut out the party happening next door, sometimes we need head phones, and sometimes we just need to try again when it's quieter. So, then, when the child is doing a lesson and getting antsy, I might say "Attack of the squirrels! Should we go hunting or close the blinds?" Eventually, we'd get to the point where I could just say "squirrel!" and that would be enough of a prompt to buckle down or address the issue. 

One issue with this is occasionally the kids come out with a code word from years ago that I've forgotten about. It takes a minute!

 

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[fairfarmhand]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

Hmmmm. Not a bad idea. The problem is I have trouble giving myself or her breaks in the middle of stuff. 

yes. IT's so hard to stop the train in the middle of this stuff. 

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Xahm]

Can you use later bedtime as an incentive that could be taken away? Like, she's old enough to be allowed to have 25-45 minutes of quiet reading time after being put to bed, but if she has a bad attitude, she must need more rest and so lights out will be immediate.

 

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[sassenach]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yeah, we've tried consequences, and frankly they were the thing that worked last time I needed her to remember to do something, which was to put dishes in the sink. I nagged and nagged and nagged and it did NOTHING, zip, zero, until I started taking away a quarter every time the dishes didn't make it to the sink. The dishes started magically making it to the sink in a week, and I don't remember the last time I had to take a quarter away. 

But it's all too complicated to figure out the correct consequences for this kind of generic attitude. I've tried taking away quarters again, since it had worked so well last time, but it doesn't quite work. I've tried assigning extra work, but she's just sulky and uncooperative about it. Maybe I do need a bigger consequence, lol, or at least one that makes more of an impression. Or one that's more suited to the issue... 

Ooh, don't do that.

So here's the thing- you can't make her care about your carefully designed curriculum. Actually, the big lesson of parenting is you can't make them care about anything. You need to decide what is a reasonable amount of progress (and since you have a precocious child, be sure to double check whether it's reasonable against a typical 8yo), and let the rest go.

I agree that hair brushing is reasonable. So if she's literally just digging in and refusing to obey a very simple standard of hygiene, then maybe you go to battle. But I'll tell you, from here until you are done parenting, half the work is going to be self-reflecting on what hills are worth dying on. The longer I do this, the less hills I deem worthy. If it were me, I'd sit down and say, "Kid, what's going on with you and the hair brushing thing? Does the brush hurt your head? Is there a reason you're avoiding it?" If they literally have no reason other than not wanting to, then I would say "well, it's a daily habit that you need to do." [If they have a reason, address that reason.] "I would like you to have your hair brushed before breakfast. Can you agree to that?" [kid says no, that's dumb, blah blah] "Ok then what time will you agree to have it done by?" [I bet money that they say lunch] "great! Then we agree you'll have your hair brushed before lunch." 

And then after that I would not be shocked if I had to remind them every single day, because that's how kids are. I have made peace with reminding. I don't mind that so much. I'm not ok with outright defiance. Some parents want the kids to not need reminders and that's just not my reality. I don't fuss much over reminders or delays. If I ask a kid to take the trash out and they do it an hour later, that's fine. 

OK, so back to school, I just think you need to lower your expectations. Sometimes a kid will do sloppy work. Sometimes they will sulk. We can't control how they feel about schoolwork. Heck, I'm in school right now and sometimes I pout and whine straight through an assignment. I can't imagine if my professor was watching me complete my work! 

Maybe she's tired of the corona life? Does she have regular social activities anymore? Does she have things to look forward to in her week? At this age I had my kids in activities with other kids 5 days a week. My favorite was swim team because it physically exhausted them and had a strong social component. That's a tough one right now. 

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[GoodGrief3]

I've homeschooled three girls now. Youngest is 16 and the older two are college grads. All probably gifted, one highly gifted and always significantly advanced in academics.

IME, age 8 is when things start changing for girls in the brain in preparation for puberty. In all three of mine, there were definitely changes in attitude, though presented in various ways according to personality and other factors. I thought I was the most awesome mom up to that point, haha.

One thing with gifted kids...the rate of progression in academics can be significantly faster in the early years when they are more compliant and it's all a bit of a novelty. That does change with the brain taking on new tasks, and that's okay. If the kids are way ahead at this point, you've got some room to step back and relax and let other growing occur.

You sound like an awesome teacher. That said, it may play out that your daughter responds better to other input. Maybe not, but that's my experience, and I've learned not to take the rejection personally, because it's developmentally appropriate. An example from our life: I am a pro photographer. Yesterday, my daughter started a photography class with another local photographer. She will learn more from him because she will be more receptive, though I can reinforce lessons at home.

Good luck. I always say that by the time we figure all of this out, the kids are grown and gone and we have all this useless knowledge about child rearing.

[cjzimmer1]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Yes, that's actually a discussion we keep having. DD8 has THICK hair, so if we don't brush it every day, it's ridiculous. And she's also a pain in the rear when I brush it. 

Is it reasonable to ask her to take care of her own hair or else cut it? Because that's kind of what we're coming to, but I don't know if that's expecting too much of her. But it's really hard to stay on top of her for stuff she doesn't want to do!! 

All the females here have long hair and DD 13 is exceptionally thick.  DD13 can brush her own hair but it's hard and really prefers help.  DD12 can't do her own yet.  That spot at the base of the neck is just so hard to get taken care of.  I currently have a frozen shoulder and I can't even take care of my own hair.  So yeah, we do a lot of brushing each other's hair.  None of my kids could have handled sole responsibility for hair at 8.  For DD12, we have solved her problems by keeping it braided.  A braid lasts her 2-3 days so she only needs someone to help on the days it needs to be redone.  We don't cut our hair for religious reasons but I do feel like it's too much to ask an 8 year to take care of thick hair on her own.  

I have my own profoundly gifted child as well as some above average kids.  What I learned is the farther from "normal", they were academically, the farther from "normal" they were emotionally as well and not in the same direction.  So my profoundly gifted child was 4-6 years ahead academically, but 3-4 years behind emotionally.  My advanced kids were ahead academically 1-2 years but we were only behind emotionally about a year.  Eventually it all evened out but their developing brain can only handle so much at one time and when its working so hard on academic skills it pretty normal for emotional/mental behavior to lag behind.  And even if you decide to lax on academic skills doesn't mean the brain will turn it's attention to emotional growth.  

So while it's frustrating as all get out, I really think you need to lower your expectations of what she can do herself. So don't make the expectation that she can remember to brush her hair everyday.  Simply state that hair needs to be brushed by a certain time, either she can do it or you will do it and than walk away until said time.  Gives her a chance to try and either succeed or fail. For mine it was math, he wanted to do the hard stuff but would get mad and throw books because he would get stuck.  But he didn't want me to help either.  Usually he'd get mad, I'd offer to help, that would make him madder, I would walk away, he'd struggle some more and sometimes get madder but he kept pushing because the alternative was admitting he needed help and he wasn't going to do that if there was any way around it.  Lots of moodiness, lots of frustration because he didn't do things the way "I" wanted but it came back to him being behind emotionally.  Once I could look at it a bit more objectively, it made it easier to reign in "my" response to the irritating behavior because I realized these things weren't intential on his part.

[Xahm]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

No, we don't do that since they share a room. Maybe when she has her own bedroom 🙂 . 

Depending on the younger and the room set up, it might be possible with a clip-on light and/or some sort of partition. We've done that sort of thing with a room sharing situation, but I totally get that kids are different and sleep is precious! Could she read for a few minutes in your bed, then switch to hers for sleep? Just trying to think of something small but valuable to a kid.

I really understand trying hard not to repeat the problems of our parents. I had pretty good parents in many ways, but they were lousy at some things. There were no arguments in our house, just lots of anger, silence, and unrelated things being forbidden. I've had to work hard to talk things through with my husband, addressing small annoyances so they don't build into this huge elephant in the room. Since you are mindful of this and trying to address it, my hunch is you will do well, though it may remain an issue that comes back as you, your husband, and your children hit new life stages.

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by Not_a_Number