Help me sort my feelings out

[Pen]

 

If she’s a major organizer it may not work even for just your daughter. 

But there’s no way to really know without trying.

 

people are on edge due to state of the world, pandemic, politics,    No matter what is going on some 20% or so (maybe more) feel deeply and personally upset by what others are or aren’t doing, and are or aren’t supporting, believing in, etc (trying not to go political here), but masks or no masks, and so much else if extremely heated

 

possibly by spring / summer things will be less heated  

Possibly 

 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

Just now, Pen said:

 

If she’s a major organizer it may not work even for just your daughter. 

But there’s no way to really know without trying.

 

people are on edge due to state of the world, pandemic, politics,    No matter what is going on some 20% or so (maybe more) feel deeply and personally upset by what others are or aren’t doing, and are or aren’t supporting, believing in, etc (trying not to go political here), but masks or no masks, and so much else if extremely heated

 

possibly by spring / summer things will be less heated  

Possibly 

 

Or civil war could have made covid look like small potatoes.  Bright side?  

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Lecka]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

So what is that going to mean in person? And what is it going to mean for my kid? 

I think you will have to go and see, if you still want to go later.  

I think it could be fine, or it could be unpleasant.  

I don't think it's possible to know in advance!  

Maybe you could text her again when the time is closer?  Or try going to something where there is not a commitment, so you can see what it will be like?  

OR you can decide it's not worth it for you, you are not even that into this place anymore.  

[Terabith]

I think you just try the stuff that looks the most interesting and don't worry that much about whether the people you're doing it with are homeschoolers or not, because by middle school, that makes way less difference?

[Pen]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Or civil war could have made covid look like small potatoes.  Bright side?  

 

Yeah yeah. I know. 

Or could be invasion from outside type war.

Or a new worse pandemic set loose. 

Anything is possible. 

 

 

Especially, it seems,  in 2020-2021 

[prairiewindmomma]

Does it need to contain homeschoolers?

Your kids are still little enough that you have vast gaping amounts of time in your schedule.  By about 6th grade, my kids are schooling 5-6 hours a day.  Add in life stuff and they are doing the functional equivalent of a private or public school day.   It all becomes a non-issue.  You join an activity because it sounds interesting, not because of where kids are schooled, if that makes sense.

Edited October 19, 2020 by prairiewindmomma
for grammar---goodness, I need more caffeine!

[Terabith]

Just now, Pen said:

 

Yeah yeah. I know. 

Or could be invasion from outside type war.

Or a new worse pandemic set loose. 

Anything is possible. 

 

 

Especially, it seems,  in 2020-2021 

Baboons riding on wolves!

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

As in, they can socialize with public schoolers? Does that work eventually? Because we really loved socializing with other kids during the day so far. 

By middle school, it really works better, because a) everyone is doing school work for basically the normal school day, and b) it's more targeted towards individual interests and not just "who happens to be homeschooling," and c) bigger pool so better chance of finding good friendship fits.  

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

Isn't there a Museum of Math in Manhattan?  Like, if they have a cool class, regardless of when it's offered, that might be a better fit than just "random class of kids about the same age at homeschool center?"

[Not_a_Number]

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Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Terabith]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

I hope that's true. It's hard for me to imagine saying no to someone's request for a Zoom playdate, if they said their kid really missed my kid, but I'm probably not looking at this from the right perspective. 

Hippie who truly doesn't allow their kid any technology use?  I knew a few of those homeschooling.  Only feed their children organic, gluten free, cruelty free oats and honey from bees that have names?

[Terabith]

You're not deluded, and sparkly dresses are AWESOME.  

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Pen]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Absolutely. I do. I don't like being yelled at (via text, but still), and I don't like people telling me I'm a paranoid jerk, and generally... yeah, I'm not OK with how she treated me. 

 

Can you drop off daughter and go or is parental socializing required?

if you could let daughter alone go and keep going so long as happy there that could work. 

If you have to teach don’t commit to doing so till you know daughter has been happy for a while so you can disengage if daughter is no longer happy there. 

 

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

But it's one thing to feel hurt about how she treated me and another to feel like I have no clue how things will go.

In a way that’s life. Even when we think we know what to expect we really do

not know ...

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I'd have been happy to agree to disagree. But she was really, really, really not interested.

 

Meaning what? 

If you disagree, then you do disagree. 

 

What do you really mean by “agree to disagree”? 

 

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

So what is that going to mean in person? And what is it going to mean for my kid? 

 

That’s the certainly the critical  question —and the only way to know would be to go back when ready or at least have your kid who wants to go back go back.

 I think if she wants to and does not need your presence it is an easy decision. 

If you must be there too and end up really unhappy while she is still loving it, that’s a harder problem...

but maybe it will be okay for both of you

or maybe she will not like it as much anymore

(hope not a flip where you love it and she is unhappy!) 

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Pen said:

Meaning what? 

If you disagree, then you do disagree. 

What do you really mean by “agree to disagree”? 

I wanted her to stop yelling at me and to stop talking about the pandemic when we were texting. 

[Ausmumof3]

I wouldn’t decide yet.  I think everyone might be feeling calmer and better in six months anyway, particularly if the worst of the Covid threat goes away by then.  Then I think I’d lean toward going and dealing for your daughters sake. 

[Terabith]

I do think it's worth not making a decision yet.  It's probably going to be several months before it makes sense to decide, and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying the center again and seeing how it works and also not wrong to try something different.  Or do both.  

Edited October 19, 2020 by Terabith

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

Can you drop off daughter and go or is parental socializing required?

if you could let daughter alone go and keep going so long as happy there that could work. 

The classes are drop-off classes. And actually, the point that by the time we'd be going back, our day would be pretty full is a good one. So it's possible we'd only be able to go for classes starting at 2 pm, anyway, at which point we might be able to avoid her entirely. 

I do like meeting other homeschoolers, because their life rhythms are more like ours, so it's easier to maintain relationships. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Terabith said:

I do think it's worth not making a decision yet.  It's probably going to be several months before it makes sense to make sense, and I don't think there's anything wrong with trying the center again and seeing how it works and also not wrong to try something different.  Or do both.  

Oh, I won't. I'm just trying to think this out. My experience of my own brain is that it likes the food to mull over and will sometimes come up with ideas when I'm not even thinking about it consciously. 

[Amy Gen]

In your situation, I would let Dd go back but I would not agree to teach again. I’d just say, I needed to focus on other areas for awhile, but pretend that the falling out never happened EXCEPT if there was any way I imagined that she might take her anger out on my child. In that case I would not go back at all. In my mind, the place attachment might start fading as it is longer and longer since she has been there. I would not want to go back for a trial period that might not last and have Dd get reminded of her attachment all over again. 
 

I had something happen last year at our main activity. The leader had wrong information, and made some false accusations. I got HOT. One of my supposed friends said things that made it clear that she willing to believe it until proven otherwise. I just decided that I really didn’t want to be friends any longer. I said (rather immaturely) “This relationship will never recover.” She agreed. Strangely, I was able to forgive the leader much more easily. 
 

We went on serving together without ever mentioning it again. But dang it, as time goes on, she is growing on me again. I think a year from now, we might be closer friends than ever. 
 

All of that is to say that if you do return, things might heal themselves in time. 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Matryoshka]

26 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Baboons riding on wolves!

Starting to sound like an orc invasion! 

[catz]

I just think if you give it another 9 months, introduce your kids to some other groups and activities as it becomes safer to do so they are likely to move on.  A lot of kids like and prefer the familiar but once something new becomes familiar and it's fun, they move on.  And it's especially easy to focus on that ONE thing when you're home constantly stuck in a rut. I just don't think you shouldn't feel super guilty if you decide not to go back with kids this age if this just sounds too awkward and you have other good options open to you, especially if the parent in question in an organizer there.  I have been in the middle way too much weird co-op drama over the years.  It's another thing when you're kids are at an age where you can be more hands off and it won't be super long until you are there.  Nothing wrong with requiring it work for you too at this point.  And I personally wouldn't walk away from a co-op with kids that young unless every adult with access youth on premises was background checked.    Paid organized activities usually do a good job with that, but stuff like this can be dicey. 

 

[kirstenhill]

1 minute ago, FuzzyCatz said:

I just think if you give it another 9 months, introduce your kids to some other groups and activities as it becomes safer to do so they are likely to move on.  A lot of kids like and prefer the familiar but once something new becomes familiar and it's fun, they move on.  And it's especially easy to focus on that ONE thing when you're home constantly stuck in a rut. I just don't think you shouldn't feel super guilty if you decide not to go back with kids this age if this just sounds too awkward and you have other good options open to you, especially if the parent in question in an organizer there.  I have been in the middle way too much weird co-op drama over the years.  It's another thing when you're kids are at an age where you can be more hands off and it won't be super long until you are there.  Nothing wrong with requiring it work for you too at this point.  And I personally wouldn't walk away from a co-op with kids that young unless every adult with access youth on premises was background checked.    Paid organized activities usually do a good job with that, but stuff like this can be dicey. 

 

This!!! I was just about to say that it makes sense she wants to go back, because it was what she knows and was a good experience for her.  We had to leave a co-op a number of years ago because it wasn't a good fit for one child (basically, this child wasn't welcome back, and since it wasn't a drop off co-op, it wasn't going to be possible for any of us to be involved).  My other kids were super sad because this co-op was "so awesome!".   But we left and found a new co-op that was awesome in other ways, and then they were sad when they co-op folded after that school year, and they just couldn't imagine we would ever find something that good.  But we made other plans the next year and they were really happy with those plans also.  I think if you decide that something else is best, and you present it with an upbeat attitude that "it isn't going to work to go back, but we are going to do x,y, and z instead and it will be so much fun! You'll meet so many new friends!"...then she will probably start enjoying the new activities and friends and then move on, like FuzzyCatz said. 

I think if she is incessantly asking right now, it's ok to tell her that you'll make the final decision when it is time to go back, even if you are leaning toward not going back.  Because ultimately the situation could completely change in the coming months - the other lady could move away or stop being involved for some other reason, the whole thing could go under, you could hear about something way more awesome that both of you would pick over the original center...etc.

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[catz]

4 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I usually don't walk away very far 😉 . I'm across the street. And it's really just the teacher and the kids. 

Sorry,  I wasn't trying to make a judgment at all.  And I would pop in and out when my kids were that age at co-op or go for a short walk/chat with another mom once kiddos were rolling with a class or whatever.  It's not like parents were sitting in individual classes.  Local to us, parents dropping off and driving away is not the model most co-ops follow especially for kids younger than teens.  Even our teen co-op has a strong family component.  Anything that is like that here would have licensed and vetted teachers.

My  kids were very much like this in elementary.  They did get better with these types of changes and transitions as time went on and I actually felt like it was just good practice for life in general.  It is hard!  

[Terabith]

Ah.  In that case (massive nostalgia...I get that), I would lean towards going back but maybe not so much and mixing up with trying something new also.  

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Starr]

Of course she wants to go back. We all want to go back to the things we remember fondly even though nothing is ever the same. As an old mom, I think she will be fine if she goes back or if you find other things to join. I would think about how you want to use your time next year and plan for that. If you think ultimately it's time to start something new for your family I would do it once things open up. Don't take her back and have to pull her out again.  I think for co-ops to work well everyone in the family has to be content. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Starr said:

Don't take her back and have to pull her out again. 

Now, that is a VERY interesting point. Because of course, it's entirely possible we go back and then things implode in a spectacular fashion, and we'd have to leave in a huff, and that would be worse than leaving from the start. 

[Lecka]

That makes me lean more towards not going back, because — right now you have some time in towards not going.  It could be an easier time to make a transition to a different thing.

And I feel like — from the outside — there’s a lot of anti-vaxxers and now there’s meeting in poorly ventilated rooms.  These aren’t the end of the world or anything, but this could be a good chance to transition away.

It might just be a hard transition whenever it does happen.  
 

But between one thing and another it might not be a place that would be a good fit longer term.

Im also kinda angry about the gifted kid thing.  It is so rude.  I don’t know about any magic answers to that, but I am curious if — okay, your daughter was flying under the radar before with being gifted.  Well — she might not fly under the radar as much when she goes back.  So do you think it’s a good environment that way, for other kids?  Do you know?  It could be and then — that is something good about it at least. 

[Not_a_Number]

Deleted for privacy reasons. 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Not_a_Number

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

Does my daughter need to be appreciated... no, she's a relatively confident kid, although I do think that not feeling appreciated is something that can affect a kid without knowing it. 

Do I need to be liked at the center? No, I don't. Although it'll be awkward to refuse to teach classes, given that I taught last year. 

I don't know if she'll reject nicety in social situations. I've seen her have pretty big fights with other people... I am really not sure I can predict how she'll behave. 

 

How she treats other people is likely how she'll treat you and your daughter.  Does she treat those people respectfully, or is she rude and snotty? Does she take it out on the kids by subtly snubbing the children of people she's argued with? Or does she treat them fairly? If she's mad at someone, does everyone know because she's so emotional about it, or does she keep it to herself? 

By the time you are ready to go back, things at the center could be very different.  Your former friend could leave.  New people will join.  Even without covid, the dynamics at the center would shift over time as different people left and joined. 

Something else to keep in mind is that your daughter will change, too.  By the time she goes back, she won't be the same kid as she was on the last day of co-op. It might seem impossible to consider now, but regardless of covid, there was likely going to be a day when she outgrew the co-op. If you'd asked me when my son was 8 if I thought we'd ever leave this area, I would have laughed and said no.  Everything was going SO WELL! We had friends, we found our niche, it was great! And then right before he turned 11, I saw the beginning of the end here.  The kids were growing up and changing, and all of the things that worked great in years prior suddenly didn't work anymore. 

I would say give your co-op a try again, when you are ready to return, but also add some other experiences into your world.  Not just because things could go sour with your former friend, but also because your daughter may be ready to widen her world a bit more by then. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

How she treats other people is likely how she'll treat you and your daughter.  Does she treat those people respectfully, or is she rude and snotty? Does she take it out on the kids by subtly snubbing the children of people she's argued with? Or does she treat them fairly?

I don't know. I haven't actually seen her teach. 

 

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

If she's mad at someone, does everyone know because she's so emotional about it, or does she keep it to herself? 

Everyone knows. Absolutely everyone. 

 

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

By the time you are ready to go back, things at the center could be very different.  Your former friend could leave.  New people will join.  Even without covid, the dynamics at the center would shift over time as different people left and joined. 

That's true. I'm definitely keeping an open mind 🙂 . But this thread has given me lots of good things to think about. As I said, I need to sleep on things about 100 times 😉 . 

 

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

Something else to keep in mind is that your daughter will change, too.  By the time she goes back, she won't be the same kid as she was on the last day of co-op. It might seem impossible to consider now, but regardless of covid, there was likely going to be a day when she outgrew the co-op. If you'd asked me when my son was 8 if I thought we'd ever leave this area, I would have laughed and said no.  Everything was going SO WELL! We had friends, we found our niche, it was great! And then right before he turned 11, I saw the beginning of the end here.  The kids were growing up and changing, and all of the things that worked great in years prior suddenly didn't work anymore. 

If you don't mind me asking, what was that made the niche not fit anymore? 

 

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

I would say give your co-op a try again, when you are ready to return, but also add some other experiences into your world.  Not just because things could go sour with your former friend, but also because your daughter may be ready to widen her world a bit more by then. 

Oh, we had so many experiences, lol. We did this, and gymnastics, and Hebrew school, and DD4 went to preschool so we played with those kids and their siblings, too... Oh, and homeschool swimming. And a history class. We were definitely doing a LOT of things out of the house. Our current schedule is very different from what our life used to be like. 

[Not_a_Number]

All right, I'm going to delete the OP 🙂 . Feel free to reply, but I want to get this off of the searchable Internet 😉 

[Tanaqui]

Two thoughts.

First, your daughter gets attached to places - but she can, and will, get attached to new places. You weren't going to go to this center with these friends for the next 30 years!

And second... as kids start entering their double digits, they lose their little kid friendships. Not always, not all of them - but they drift away from a lot of their old "best friends" and pick up new ones. Friendship becomes less about proximity (or, more accurately, being around the kids you've been around for years) and more about shared interests.

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Tanaqui said:

And second... as kids start entering their double digits, they lose their little kid friendships. Not always, not all of them - but they drift away from a lot of their old "best friends" and pick up new ones. Friendship becomes less about proximity (or, more accurately, being around the kids you've been around for years) and more about shared interests.

Yes, definitely 🙂.  Although DH is still in touch with some of his friends from when he was little, which I'm rather jealous of. 

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

If you don't mind me asking, what was that made the niche not fit anymore? 

The kids started growing up and their interests diverged. When kids are little, you can toss a bunch of them in a room together and they mostly get along.  They don't need to have much in common other than circumstance to be friends.  But when you get into the middle school years, they have more specific likes and dislikes.  They aren't so excited to just dig a hole or collect rocks at the park together, or color together, or whatever little-kid thing kept them happy before.  

It just happens that I have a very bookish, geeky kid in an area that does not value bookish-ness or geeky-ness, and despite trying very, very hard to find people with similar interests, it doesn't exist here. A few people have tried to build that community here via book, game, and comic book shops, and they've all closed down because the community here doesn't care about that stuff. So I can either be the 6th person to try to build that community for my son to have a social outlet, or...we can move to where those things already exist and join in. 

[Not_a_Number]

7 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

It just happens that I have a very bookish, geeky kid in an area that does not value bookish-ness or geeky-ness, and despite trying very, very hard to find people with similar interests, it doesn't exist here. A few people have tried to build that community here via book, game, and comic book shops, and they've all closed down because the community here doesn't care about that stuff. So I can either be the 6th person to try to build that community for my son to have a social outlet, or...we can move to where those things already exist and join in. 

You'd think there'd be niches for bookish, geeky kids in the NYC homeschooling community... and while there are definitely SOME kids like that, they are definitely not the majority. I sympathize. 

[Shoeless]

21 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

You'd think there'd be niches for bookish, geeky kids in the NYC homeschooling community... and while there are definitely SOME kids like that, they are definitely not the majority. I sympathize. 

Truthfully, I stopped looking toward homeschoolers to meet these needs for him. I'm looking for opportunities that exist independently that happen to offer meet ups for kids, (comic shops that offer game nights, libraries that have teen meetups, museums that have volunteer opportunities, math circles, etc).  If we happen to find a co-op or enrichment group that he likes, great! It will be one part of what he does, but not the backbone of his social world. 

[Matryoshka]

1 hour ago, MissLemon said:

The kids started growing up and their interests diverged. When kids are little, you can toss a bunch of them in a room together and they mostly get along.  They don't need to have much in common other than circumstance to be friends.  But when you get into the middle school years, they have more specific likes and dislikes.  They aren't so excited to just dig a hole or collect rocks at the park together, or color together, or whatever little-kid thing kept them happy before.  

So.much.this.

Things get really tough in the middle school years when common interests rather than age and circumstances determine friendships, especially with kids who have not-typical interests. But it's also so tough to see bffs since  pretty much babyhood just not have anything in common anymore. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Matryoshka