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If I recall my own past correctly, you're kind of at peak mama drama.  I'm not sure why the parents of preschoolers and early elementary students are such carnivorous monsters....I think they are stil

Since you are not thinking of going back until spring  or summer,  I would not even think about it right now. This year Has been so incredibly hard on everyone.   Some have had it much worse than

I tend to be a mull-er also.  A few thoughts: 1. The world can get small pretty quickly if you only hang around people who see the world the same as you.  I decided about a decade ago when I had

Since you are not thinking of going back until spring  or summer,  I would not even think about it right now.

This year Has been so incredibly hard on everyone.   Some have had it much worse than others.   Some have risen and some went a different direction.    Some did as they were told to help and others fought the advice.   It has changed my thoughts on some people.   Don't know how that will matter in the future or not.  But it has also made me more understanding of what each person is struggling with and weighing their decisions on.

Let it go for now.  When you are ready to come back then decide what you want to do.  She might be different then too.  I think a lot of people are going to lose friends this year.  Maybe forever.  Or maybe when life is normal again so will our relationships.

Edited by mommyoffive
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3 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

Since you are not thinking of going back until spring  or summer,  I would not even think about it right.  

I understand what you're saying, but that's not how I roll, unfortunately 😉 . I tend to mull things over for a while. I just want to talk this out with people and see if people have any helpful perspectives. 

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I tend to be a mull-er also.  A few thoughts:

1. The world can get small pretty quickly if you only hang around people who see the world the same as you.  I decided about a decade ago when I had a similar dynamic problem with an individual in our shared small community that I wouldn't let that person dictate whether or not I wanted to participate in an activity.  I didn't need to engineer my life to avoid that person. I would do what I want.   With time, other people had brush-ups with her and began to view her as cantankerous.  Others never saw the issue.  I didn't have to exclude myself or my family from that community over one individual though.

2. This is a lesson I've really only sorted out in the last few years.....choosing to suspend decision making for a time can be a healthy choice. I tend to be a mull-er and then a decisive decision maker (burning all the bridges behind me in my wake).  Dh tends to make decisions at the last responsible moment.  After watching us and our respective handling things over the last couple of decades....there may be some wisdom, occasionally 😂, in his approach.  Since this isn't a decision that needs to be made for 6-9 months, don't make it.  You may feel differently then. (Or, with any luck, she will have moved far, far away by then. 🥳 )

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I am involved in a somewhat similar situation.  I used to teach for an in-person coop.  Although there was no argument, there were many hurt feelings, probably on both sides.  We disagreed about the best measures to implement in regards to the pandemic.  My understanding is that they are continuing to meet in-person, but the focus of their mitigation efforts are new cleaning procedures.

In any case, I needed to mentally move on.  There are too many other options to pursue to go back into a stressful situation, with difficult relationships.  I have gently made it clear to my kids that the season for that particular coop is over.  We will find new friends, and new activities.  Life is too short to go backwards.

ETA:  And hugs to you, whatever-number-you-might-be-today!

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Do nothing.

First, I agree with the above posters. There's nothing you can do about any of it *now.*

Secondly, your obligation is to make life enjoyable enough for your kid, not to make it easy for her. If she wants to ignore you, she will. You don't need to do her work for her.

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Switch to St Ann’s School (Brooklyn Heights to possibly fit your dd8 intellectually) or Bank Street school upper west side to be nearer ?

and never mind the homeschooling center?  Maybe you have “outgrown” it? 

 

(Or even just put in some applications to give some good other options for Spring or next year)

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1 minute ago, Pen said:

Switch to St Ann’s School (Brooklyn Heights to possibly fit your dd8 intellectually) or Bank Street school upper west side to be nearer ?

and never mind the homeschooling center?  Maybe you have “outgrown” it? 

Wait, how am I supposed to homeschool while switching to a school? 😄  

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What's best for your kid?   

To me, that's ultimately what this comes down to.  

If it's best for your kid to go back, then you send the kid back.  If it's going to hurt the kid (because she might take out her feelings on your kid) then you don't send your kid.  

Your kid is in homeschool center for her, not for you.  So if it benefits her, what you feel about other moms there doesn't really matter.  (short of other moms being abusive to your kid etc).  If homeschool center is not *SAFE* for your kid, that's one thing.  But if it's just something that makes you uncomfortable about being around the other adults there....well that's a suck it up and deal sort of situation IMO.  

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I hope I can say this in a way that makes sense.  Five years ago I would have said, no way, don't go back.  That might be the right thing for you, particularly if you can connect with another group.  However, that is not the only good choice.

Where I live, there is a limited amount of homeschoolers and opportunities.  One of my dc had a crises a few years ago which involved another homeschooling family.  This family was involved everywhere in our circles.  I am not going to go into details (even though I think it would be more helpful), but we were not able to avoid this family w/o a great deal of sacrifice on my dc's part.  The mother had been one of my closest friends, but there was/is no way to repair the relationship (really, truly.)  I thought it would kill me to have to deal with the awkwardness of the situation, but I really had to do it.  And it has been ok.  It is still awkward, but we have both handled it with maturity.  It may be, that as things calm down, she will be able to be more mature about things.

So, I guess if my dc really loved the group, I would try to go back (and give it a year.)  I would (and did) also try to expand the circle for my dd.  We drove to another state which helped alot in expanding our circle.  Bc of where you live, you probably have a lot more opportunities for that.

Prior to this, I'd always been surprised when people stayed places where there had been conflict.  For me (not implying you, really!) I guess I am a conflict avoider (not at home, but in public.)  Through watching other people and my experience I've learned that while you may not verbally agree to disagree, you can occupy the same space with someone you disagree with and thrive.

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5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I tend to be a mull-er also.  A few thoughts:

1. The world can get small pretty quickly if you only hang around people who see the world the same as you.  I decided about a decade ago when I had a similar dynamic problem with an individual in our shared small community that I wouldn't let that person dictate whether or not I wanted to participate in an activity.  I didn't need to engineer my life to avoid that person. I would do what I want.   With time, other people had brush-ups with her and began to view her as cantankerous.  Others never saw the issue.  I didn't have to exclude myself or my family from that community over one individual though.

2. This is a lesson I've really only sorted out in the last few years.....choosing to suspend decision making for a time can be a healthy choice. I tend to be a mull-er and then a decisive decision maker (burning all the bridges behind me in my wake).  Dh tends to make decisions at the last responsible moment.  After watching us and our respective handling things over the last couple of decades....there may be some wisdom, occasionally 😂, in his approach.  Since this isn't a decision that needs to be made for 6-9 months, don't make it.  You may feel differently then. (Or, with any luck, she will have moved far, far away by then. 🥳 )

Yes, all of this!

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

Wait, how am I supposed to homeschool while switching to a school? 😄  

 

Other options. 😁

Can homeschool the others,(there are others?) and afterschool the one.  And decisions don’t need to be forever. 

Could give a different life view ... decrease the importance of that woman and her son. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

Well, except that I used to teach classes there. So I was quite present. I suppose we could go back but I could refuse to teach classes... that might be reasonable. 

Certainly that's an option.  Your OP asked about sending your kid back, not whether or not you should go back.  If the issue is more about you having to teach there with her there, that's almost like asking about going back to a job where there's a butt nugget co-worker.  And my answer to that, if you don't "need" the job is always....no, no reason to go back to work with people who are butt nuggets.  

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Just now, freesia said:

I hope I can say this in a way that makes sense.  Five years ago I would have said, no way, don't go back.  That might be the right thing for you, particularly if you can connect with another group.  However, that is not the only good choice.

Where I live, there is a limited amount of homeschoolers and opportunities.  One of my dc had a crises a few years ago which involved another homeschooling family.  This family was involved everywhere in our circles.  I am not going to go into details (even though I think it would be more helpful), but we were not able to avoid this family w/o a great deal of sacrifice on my dc's part. 

If you'd be willing to go into details via PM, I'd be interested. (And if not, don't worry about it!) 

 

Just now, freesia said:

The mother had been one of my closest friends, but there was/is no way to repair the relationship (really, truly.)  I thought it would kill me to have to deal with the awkwardness of the situation, but I really had to do it.  And it has been ok.  It is still awkward, but we have both handled it with maturity.  It may be, that as things calm down, she will be able to be more mature about things.

That would be lovely, but I'm not sure I see it happening. Just from previous experience. 

 

Just now, freesia said:

So, I guess if my dc really loved the group, I would try to go back (and give it a year.)  I would (and did) also try to expand the circle for my dd.  We drove to another state which helped alot in expanding our circle.  Bc of where you live, you probably have a lot more opportunities for that.

She loves the place. I've already gathered a lot of her friends for an online class, so we could certainly manage to see them without that. But she likes being part of a big, rowdy group at a playground 😉 . And she gets attached to places. 

 

Just now, freesia said:

Prior to this, I'd always been surprised when people stayed places where there had been conflict.  For me (not implying you, really!) I guess I am a conflict avoider (not at home, but in public.)  Through watching other people and my experience I've learned that while you may not verbally agree to disagree, you can occupy the same space with someone you disagree with and thrive.

Hmmmm. That's a good point, thank you. 

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She might pretend it never happened.  

She might be overly polite and formal.

She might avoid talking to you.

I think -- to some extent, you have to think what you would want.

Are you willing to pretend it never happened, and approach her that way?

Would you prefer to avoid talking to her?  Maybe not pointedly but just -- not talking to her much, not going out of your way to talk to her?

Would you want to be polite and formal just to try to keep things pleasant, or send a bit of a message "I want to get along, but I'm not going to pretend nothing happened"?

What do you want?  

I think if she were to talk about you behind your back ------ well, she would be showing her own character there.  

If you would just be bummed out to be around her, and would rather start over -- I think that is a fine choice.  I think if you can mentally move past it to some extent, you can probably get along there.  I think either choice is fine.  

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Just now, happysmileylady said:

Certainly that's an option.  Your OP asked about sending your kid back, not whether or not you should go back.  If the issue is more about you having to teach there with her there, that's almost like asking about going back to a job where there's a butt nugget co-worker.  And my answer to that, if you don't "need" the job is always....no, no reason to go back to work with people who are butt nuggets.  

Hahahaha, that's a good life lesson in general. 

I don't "need" the job, but it was definitely a convenient way to gather friends 🙂 . I can control what happens in a class I teach... I can't control other people's classes. 

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1 minute ago, Lecka said:

She might pretend it never happened.  

She might be overly polite and formal.

She might avoid talking to you.

I think -- to some extent, you have to think what you would want.

Are you willing to pretend it never happened, and approach her that way?

Would you prefer to avoid talking to her?  Maybe not pointedly but just -- not talking to her much, not going out of your way to talk to her?

Would you want to be polite and formal just to try to keep things pleasant, or send a bit of a message "I want to get along, but I'm not going to pretend nothing happened"?

What do you want?  

What do I want, hmmm. I don't even know. What I would have wanted is for things to stay civil, and I wouldn't have cared if they were frosty. But the fact that she wasn't even willing to have a Zoom playdate makes me worry what exactly she's going to be like if she teaches DD8 in a class. She does teach the kids in DD8's age group, so if we sign up for classes, it might be hard to avoid her. 

 

1 minute ago, Lecka said:

I think if she were to talk about you behind your back ------ well, she would be showing her own character there.  

Sure, but I don't know how much it would help. 

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4 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Your kid is in homeschool center for her, not for you.  So if it benefits her, what you feel about other moms there doesn't really matter.  (short of other moms being abusive to your kid etc).  If homeschool center is not *SAFE* for your kid, that's one thing.  But if it's just something that makes you uncomfortable about being around the other adults there....well that's a suck it up and deal sort of situation IMO.  

But, for me at least, a huge part of in-person coops is meeting my social needs too.  And, in some regard, even for my husband, even if he only comes occasionally.  There are many ways to educate your child these days.  But, other than here, there are so few options to make friends with other moms who do what we do all day long.  The time away from home (and academically rigorous courses) only makes sense if all of us are having valuable relationships.

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I found with stuff like this when my kids were younger 2 things.  One - it had to work for both me if I were going to need to be onsite and hands on and obviously for the kids.  Two - sometimes we would grow out of something like this or it just wouldn't click.  Sometimes it was just better to move on and find a new activity or outlet and not bang my head against the wall trying to make it work.   I learned to make those moves faster as time went on.  

ETA - just to clarify, these types of groups definitely help fill my own social needs when my kids were younger.  Even our teen co-op has families and parents I've known for years at this point that I enjoy.   

If it's a larger community and you think it might still be a good fit, I think that is fine.  I did find that when my kids had something that was a good fit, they would move on from the old "thing" quickly.  Be that social and/or academic classes, regular playdates, extracurriculars, etc.  The other thing is I often would partner with someone I clicked with to create opportunities where we needed them.  Sometimes that meant hand inviting families I knew would be a good fit, etc.

We've been involved with a few homeschool daytime class things (tutorials, co-op, one off classes, etc) and it was always such small groupings, it would be hard to want to continue if I knew someone was avoiding me and giving me side eye every time I walked through the door.  I guess I don't think about that as letting someone else tell me what I can do.  The world is a big place with lots of nice people and opportunities of all types  and you don't need to limit yourself to this one small thing if it isn't going to be enjoyable to you even if your kids say they would like to go.  My kids always were a little anxious for this type of change and almost always they never looked back once we had something new going.  

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Or go back when ready, and see how it goes.

But I do think a couple other viable options could be a help. And from what you have described your daughter might well thrive at one of the schools I mentioned.  (St Ann’s is not religious despite the name — it is a school for gifted kids.) 

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Just now, LJPPKGFGSC said:

But, for me at least, a huge part of in-person coops is meeting my social needs too.  And, in some regard, even for my husband, even if he only comes occasionally.  There are many ways to educate your child these days.  But, other than here, there are so few options to make friends with other moms who do what we do all day long.  The time away from home (and academically rigorous courses) only makes sense if all of us are having valuable relationships.

Yep. That's definitely been the case for me -- I used this center to meet people that I could maybe be friendly with, too. Having another mom who teaches there and who is hostile seems ridiculously unpleasant. 

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3 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

If you'd be willing to go into details via PM, I'd be interested. (And if not, don't worry about it!) 

 

I'll try to do it later--we are coming up on dinnertime.  It's more to give you context that it really was a *big* deal, so it may not be impt. I'll also try to think if there is any *how* advice I can give you.

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Your daughter is four?  With time she will move on and will make new attachments. So I wouldn’t make that your biggest deciding factor. 
 

If you are able to go and be polite but unattached with the other mom that might work. But if she’s going to be a perpetual thorn in your side, to me it’s not worth it. 

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Just now, Pen said:

Or go back when ready, and see how it goes.

But I do think a couple other viable options could be a help. And from what you have described your daughter might well thrive at one of the schools I mentioned.  (St Ann’s is not religious despite the name — it is a school for gifted kids.) 

I do want to keep teaching DD8 🙂 . We've looked at the gifted schools here, and it's going to be hard to get her needs met even in that context, I think. Our math work today was probably about AoPS Intro C&P level -- I don't really see where I'm going to find a school that does that for her. She also reads all day and loves having down time. Homeschooling is great for us, and socially, we do have options other than this center... I can always organize classes myself, and we have plenty of local connections. So there are definitely ways to socialize outside this center. It's just that she misses it. 

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1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Your daughter is four?  With time she will move on and will make new attachments. So I wouldn’t make that your biggest deciding factor. 
 

No, this is about DD8. I'm not so worried about my little one's connections. 

 

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If I recall my own past correctly, you're kind of at peak mama drama.  I'm not sure why the parents of preschoolers and early elementary students are such carnivorous monsters....I think they are still under the illusion that if they provide the perfect lifestyle to their children that their children will become perfect scholars and athletes and be admitted to Harvard at 12 and that their children's success is reflective of their parenting abilities  Once their kids start to hit puberty, that idealism kinda gets a bit tarnished and the mama drama eases up a bit. 

Hang in there.

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4 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

The other thing is I often would partner with someone I clicked with to create opportunities where we needed them.  Sometimes that meant hand inviting families I knew would be a good fit, etc.

We've been doing that with the Zoom math class I've been running. I basically handpicked a lot of people we were friends with and invited them. Most said yes 🙂 . I floated the idea of just continuing that class but run at home/at a rented place/at a park instead of going back to DD8, but it just made her sad. (And this class is really practically ALL of her friends from the center! But she gets attached to places. She really does.) 

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My perspective is that by the time you are ready to go back to in person classes everyone may have calmed down.  Or she may not ever get over it and you just have to learn to ignore her and go about your life.  I wouldn't let her keep me from going back when you feel it is safe.

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Well...I'd do almost anything for my daughter. Including staying in a co-op and teaching even though I am an introvert. Including staying in a church I might not otherwise.

I want to do both what is best for her and what helps her enjoy life. So I would try it again if I were you and would try not to let the Unpleasant Unscientifically-Minded Woman get you down. 🙂 

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3 minutes ago, LJPPKGFGSC said:

But, for me at least, a huge part of in-person coops is meeting my social needs too.  And, in some regard, even for my husband, even if he only comes occasionally.  There are many ways to educate your child these days.  But, other than here, there are so few options to make friends with other moms who do what we do all day long.  The time away from home (and academically rigorous courses) only makes sense if all of us are having valuable relationships.

I would never depend on my kid's activities to fulfill my social needs.  I mean, it's convenient, for sure.  That's generally how I meet most new friends is through mom's of my kids friends/activity groups.  

But I have also found that many times, there are moms within those arenas that I just *DO NOT* get along with.

 

An example.  Two years ago, DD10 was in a GS troop that was different than DD11's because of the age level difference.  But because of DD10's special needs, I had to be super more involved with her troop than I was with DD11's, inspite of the fact that I was a registered volunteer with DD11's troop.  We had a camp weekend.  It was completely AWFUL for me.  For more reasons than one, but one reason was the adults involved were just.....NOT my cuppa.  But............I wasn't camping for them or for my socialization  And DD10 had a blast (even though there wasn't much effort put towards inclusivity.)  Even though it sucked for me.....I wasn't there for me, I was there for DD10.  

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NYC socially was best place I have ever lived. There are so many groups and activities all the time.  

I suggested other schools that I know because I know NYC schools not homeschooling groups — probably there are a lot of homeschooling groups besides the one you were at. 

 

I don’t think you should necessarily throw off a whole group because of one person, but feeling like that’s your only outlet for friends for parents as well as kids probably adds stress to how you feel about the woman.

Where I am now in rural area, it really is more like if anything works at all it might be all there is.   

 

I wonder if the How to have Impossible Conversations book I recommended on a couple of other threads could help? 

 

 

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Just now, Not_a_Number said:

DD8 is in grade 3 🙂 . Is that really the peak? 

Yeah, 3rd-4th grade is peak mama (and peak girl) drama.  We found middle school MUCH less drama filled than third and fourth grades.  There's a reason my kids both went to school at age 9, and it had a lot to do with my ability to meet their social needs (in a much smaller community where homeschooling was closely aligned with political and social stances that we didn't fit in with.  

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I think -- are you fine with being around her, as long as she is not hostile or gossiping about you?  

But you would be okay with some level of frosty? 

Like -- are you fine to interact politely/pleasantly with her, or just not really talk to her, as long as she is not actively hostile or gossiping?  

Do you worry about her being actively hostile or gossiping, because you have seen her do it before?  

I am not sure I think she will be really hostile back in person, because of not wanting to do a Zoom playdate.  If the kids are back together and getting along, it might be something to let fade into the past.  

I don't know.  If you know this woman is a difficult person, just in the past, you were on her good side ----- that is a different situation.

If you think she is basically fine but the two of you have had this conflict, I think if you can handle frosty then that is the most likely scenario.  

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I will not quote, as requested.  But it might be important to remember that this woman is one of the organizers who is responsible for running the classes.  That is very different from just having a conflict with another mom.

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1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

DD8 is in grade 3 🙂 . Is that really the peak? 

A bunch of friends and I sat around one night to discuss this point.  We all have oldest kids at least in college now, though some, like me, still have early elementary aged kids.  We all think it's peak mama drama.  There's another flareup in the high school years where parents seem to live through their kids again (who is homecoming king, what kids scored on the ACT, what college acceptances they got, etc.) but by that point we were all so old and tired and jaded that we really just didn't care anymore.  Like, we think/thought those other moms are kinda insane.  Perspective comes with time, and I think as one ages we all get to the point of just being able to look at a heaping pile of mess, shrug our shoulders, and choose not to step in.

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Just now, LJPPKGFGSC said:

I will not quote, as requested.  But it might be important to remember that this woman is one of the organizers who is responsible for running the classes.  That is very different from just having a conflict with another mom.

Bingo. That's exactly it. If she's just another mom, that's something else -- I don't need to get along with everyone. If she's one of the main people running the classes, then that really complicates my feelings, especially if she doesn't even care about my kid's feelings enough to do ONE Zoom playdate with her kid. And I don't trust DD8 to tell me if anything goes wrong. She isn't very open. 

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When kids start to get more independent from their parents and do more to choose their own friends, yes, parents have less ability to feel like they are picking their kids' friends.  

It does make a difference.  

By 6th grade, kids are driving friend decisions much more.

It is a big parenting transition.  

I have seen some really questionable things said about a gifted girl my son's age, though.  I don't know if that will go away or if it will get worse.  I don't think it's like everybody is like that -- but there are people like that for sure.  They think it's like it's taking an opportunity away from their own child, even if that doesn't make any sense.  

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3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Do you worry about her being actively hostile or gossiping, because you have seen her do it before?  

Yes. I've gossiped with her before, honestly. I don't mind gossip, if it's not mean-spirited 😉 . 

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5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

I do want to keep teaching DD8 🙂 . We've looked at the gifted schools here, and it's going to be hard to get her needs met even in that context, I think. Our math work today was probably about AoPS Intro C&P level -- I don't really see where I'm going to find a school that does that for her. She also reads all day and loves having down time. Homeschooling is great for us, and socially, we do have options other than this center... I can always organize classes myself, and we have plenty of local connections. So there are definitely ways to socialize outside this center. It's just that she misses it. 

 

Then, I would have her go back for her.  For her social life. If it does not meet yours find your own answers elsewhere. 

And it sounds like there was no kid-kid problem, just parent problems. 

 

I would try to  keep  in mind as the reason why to go back being Her social life needs, not yours.  And that extremely academically advanced can be hard to place so it it works for her that’s really big important!!!

 

How to Have Impossible Conversations: A Very Practical Guide https://www.amazon.com/dp/0738285323/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_vEGJFb5FSRV5G

Might actually help.

At least a bit. 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

What do I want, hmmm. I don't even know. What I would have wanted is for things to stay civil, and I wouldn't have cared if they were frosty. But the fact that she wasn't even willing to have a Zoom playdate makes me worry what exactly she's going to be like if she teaches DD8 in a class. She does teach the kids in DD8's age group, so if we sign up for classes, it might be hard to avoid her. 

 

Sure, but I don't know how much it would help. 

 

At this point I would assume the refusal to have a Zoom playdate is about rejecting Zoom, not rejecting your DD.  I don't think there's any reason to believe she will be hostile to you or DD at in-person events. 

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I think I would be willing to go back to the homeschool center, but I also think I would try to broaden options.  I mean, you live in NYC; it seems kinda nuts not to take advantage of the opportunities to take classes at some of the museums and such.  I might go back but scale back to one class, and try classes at other locations, too, along with hosting play dates with people you like?  

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Okay -- you have got hurt feelings from this woman!  You do, you just do.  

That is -- it's more than just disagreeing about things.  

She has hurt your feelings and you think she has hurt your daughter's feelings (or she HAS hurt your daughter's feelings and you know it very well).  

It does matter, because -- it is more for you to think -- are you okay to go in and be polite and be around her, do you have a plan?  

I would need a plan and be nervous the first few times, for the first encounter.  If the first encounter was pretty innocuous -- that would go a long way.  

I think -- can you try to be around her again, before making much of a commitment to being back there?  Especially before making a commitment to teach?  

I have to think -- someone who might not do a Zoom playdate, is far from someone who would be mean to a child in person, and hopefully she wouldn't be that bad?  If she might be that bad -- if you have seen things about her you are seeing in retrospect -- that is different.  

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