Cutting people out of your life (toxic people)

[DawnM]

I am bad at it.   Like, really bad.   But I am trying to learn.

I posted before about a woman (parent of one of my son's friends) who was trying to suck me into her divorce situation, etc...she used to call me to talk and use me as her free private therapist.    I tried multiple times to help, make suggestions, come up with ideas......all things were shot down, all ideas just wouldn't work, blah, blah, blah.    Then she started telling me about family therapy and how she would argue with the therapist, and want the therapist to only see it HER way, etc.....

Fast forward.......she has been trying to get me to go turn in her ex to authorities, talk to her lawyer, etc.....she even told me I was her only friend.   I don't even consider her a friend!

Now I am realizing my problem.    She is crossing all kinds of lines.   I have tried several times to tell her that but she starts screaming and crying.    I blocked her on my phone, but her iMessages would still come through on my computer.    I didn't talk to her from June-October.    I STUPIDLY called her this week after an iMessage she sent.    She ended up yelling at me, crying, telling me "oh, you must be just afraid of my ex like everyone else."

I kind of let her have it.   I said "Let's get one thing straight here.   I am NOT afraid of your ex in any way, but our sons are friends and this isn't my battle."

I hung up and then she sent me a super long text telling me that I was an enabler by not standing up to her ex, that her ex is abusive (he isn't.   He is an idiot, but not an abuser.)

I am still shaking I am so angry.    Angry at her for the way she is treating me (no wonder she doesn't have any friends!) and angry at myself for allowing it to go this far.

I THINK I have figured out how to block her on iMessage now so I won't get her texts on my computer either.   I though of just directly texting her to stop contacting me, but I don't think that will go well and I don't have the emotional energy to deal with her backlash.

Thanks for letting me gripe.   I am learning......but apparently I am very sssslllllloooowwwww.

[Guest]

Dang. That’s rough. Fortunately - or maybe unfortunately - I don’t seem to ever have that kind of drama anymore and it might be because I keep most people at arm’s length for ages and ages. If anyone gets close enough to me that they tell me about struggles with their ex or whatever, they have been vetted by me most likely and I don’t need to excise them. 

I’m sorry, though. That sounds very unpleasant.

[DawnM]

24 minutes ago, fifiruth said:

Braking free and setting up boundaries with people that we know are not good for us is really hard. It doesn’t sound like you’re going to be able to reason with her, so just do what you need to do in order to protect yourself.

Abusive people, or at least people who use other people, don’t show their true nature right away. They start off being pleasant, friendly, etc. It takes awhile for it to dawn on us unsuspecting people that we’re dealing with someone who’s not treating us right. It’s usually a gut feeling, but it takes time for the mind to acknowledge the truth of the situation.

🤣

[PeterPan]

I had a problem a few years ago (big IEP fight) and I basically whined to anyone because I hadn't yet learned what it was going to take to solve my problem. So it was sort of grasping at straws, wishing someone cared, wishing someone would help me. 

It sounds like maybe that's what she's doing. Ugly, but as you say you aren't the person to solve her problem. 

To block her, just tap her contact, tap "i" for info or edit, and then you should be able to scroll down to an option that says block contact. 

[Carol in Cal.]

The bean dip technique is a really good one.

[gardenmom5]

4 hours ago, DawnM said:

 

Now I am realizing my problem.    She is crossing all kinds of lines.   I have tried several times to tell her that but she starts screaming and crying.    I blocked her on my phone, but her iMessages would still come through on my computer.    I didn't talk to her from June-October.    I STUPIDLY called her this week after an iMessage she sent.    She ended up yelling at me, crying, telling me "oh, you must be just afraid of my ex like everyone else."

 

I am still shaking I am so angry.    Angry at her for the way she is treating me (no wonder she doesn't have any friends!) and angry at myself for allowing it to go this far.

 

Have you read boundaries?  You are in charge of enforcing your own boundaries with her.  You do not announce them, you just do them.   I rarely respond to my brother, and I have strict limits on what I will tolerate from him.  I have plans on how to change the subject (I'm not interested in hearing about his ex-wives, or his kids refusing to speak with him, etc.)  - you can't teach a pig to sing.  it wastes your time, and annoys the pig.

Whether this is who she has always been, or she has gone off the rails due to divorce is irrelevant.   

You cannot "tell" a person like this that they are the source of their problem.  They don't want to hear it.  They are not capable of internalizing it, let alone taking responsibility for their own actions.

[mommyoffive]

I am good at cutting out toxic people.   If you don't want  a relationship with her, just stop communicating.   She will get the hint at some point.   If you block her than you won't even be bothered.   No easier time to get someone out of your life than now.  How old is your son?  If he is older than you don't need to have a relationship with the mom.  

I had a very toxic friend who brought me into her crazy land.  And into her divorce.   I am so glad that I cut her out. 

[hjffkj]

The thing that finally got me to ditch the toxic person in my life was when I realized she was likely saying negative things about me the way she said negative things about people to me.  I just decided that I didn't care anymore what would happen if I cut her off because she was going to spurt her toxicity at whoever would listen and eventually everyone realized how crazy she was and backed away from a relationship with her.

 

Adding:  I didn't make any sort of declaration of the end of our friendship.  I just blocked her on social media, immediately deleted texts from her w/o reading them, and ignored calls from her.  She eventually got the hint.  I could have had the end a  friendship conversation but I didn't feel like she deserved a chance to spew hatred at me for doing her wrong.

Edited October 19, 2020 by hjffkj

[Alicia64]

From my arm chair a billion states away, I'd wonder if she is borderline. Those who are borderline tend to always have high drama in their lives, no boundaries, super blame-y, and are very impulsive. (Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.)

My heart breaks for these people b/c as bad a time as you're having interacting with her -- she feels totally depressed, empty and alone.

However, my DH once said, "You can have compassion for a person with rabies, but that doesn't mean you spend Xmas with them." (At the time we were discussing family members.")

His point really helped me understand that to say (in so many words), "I love you, but I will not participate in this" is being loving to yourself. And it means that having more energy for your own family.

Good luck. I know this is not easy.

W.

[Carol in Cal.]

I don’t believe in ghosting people.  And I do believe in boundaries.  So I tend to announce them, but kind of gently.  Like guidance rather than orders.

”I’m sorry you are dealing with this.  Gotta go now.”

”You know, this is all we ever talk about.  I need to give it a rest for now.”

More strongly if those don’t work:

”I am not going to attack your husband for you.  Don’t ask me to do that again.”

”I don’t want to talk about this anymore.”

”I need to stop talking about this.”

[DawnM]

2 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

The bean dip technique is a really good one.

 

It has literally never worked for me.

[DawnM]

5 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I don’t believe in ghosting people.  And I do believe in boundaries.  So I tend to announce them, but kind of gently.  Like guidance rather than orders.

”I’m sorry you are dealing with this.  Gotta go now.”

”You know, this is all we ever talk about.  I need to give it a rest for now.”

More strongly if those don’t work:

”I am not going to attack your husband for you.  Don’t ask me to do that again.”

”I don’t want to talk about this anymore.”

”I need to stop talking about this.”

I have done all of those things.   She is very, very pushy.   When I said I won't be saying what she wants me to say, she screams and yells.

And, I have nothing else to talk to her about.   I was a sounding board and trying to help, but we are now over a year in and nothing has changed.   More than a year actually.

[catz]

Some people don't accept  anything but ghosting and can't be retrained/redirected.  If you hadn't communicated with her in months, you had a good thing going.  I'd do whatever you were doing during that frame of time.  

[G5052]

I agree that this isn't your game at all. She has serious mental health issues. 

But I get what she's going through because there are few things in life worse that a rough divorce. There is a reason they call divorce "death without a funeral." Truly the worst experience of my life. I felt my sanity slipping more than a few times during it. I get the desperation and fear. If she had mental health issues going into this, I can guarantee that they are made worse by the divorce process. 

But I have a different suggestion if you are ever in this position again.

I joined a private online divorce support group run by a therapist and a life coach. There I could rant and rave without burning out my friends. My friends only knew the high-level stuff. Maybe some people have friends or relatives that can handle all the swirling mess, but I chose not to share that with them.

One of the best choices ever. I didn't drive my friends crazy and came out with my sanity. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by G5052

[Rosie_0801]

3 hours ago, DawnM said:

I have done all of those things.   She is very, very pushy.   When I said I won't be saying what she wants me to say, she screams and yells.

And, I have nothing else to talk to her about.   I was a sounding board and trying to help, but we are now over a year in and nothing has changed.   More than a year actually.

If she tries that again, bellow "Who do you think you are to treat me like this?" and slam the phone down.

Then block her on everything and never speak to her again.

[Acadie]

8 hours ago, Alicia64 said:

From my arm chair a billion states away, I'd wonder if she is borderline. Those who are borderline tend to always have high drama in their lives, no boundaries, super blame-y, and are very impulsive. (Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.)

My heart breaks for these people b/c as bad a time as you're having interacting with her -- she feels totally depressed, empty and alone.

Agreeing from my arm chair. If you get a consistently punishing vibe from someone that's often a sign of borderline. I doubt you'll ever feel like you can be there as a support without getting sucked into a constantly punishing dynamic. 

What you describe would be more than enough for me to block and delete and not look back. 

And I'm pretty certain you'll feel better for doing so.

Edited October 20, 2020 by Acadie

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, DawnM said:

I have done all of those things.   She is very, very pushy.   When I said I won't be saying what she wants me to say, she screams and yells.

And, I have nothing else to talk to her about.   I was a sounding board and trying to help, but we are now over a year in and nothing has changed.   More than a year actually.

And then what do you do?  At that point, I would just say "bye", and hang up, walk away, whatever.  I would have told her "no", and then I would refuse to be an audience for the tantrum.    

that's what I've had to do with my brother.  I will ONLY meet him places where I can walk away at a moments notice.  (if we're in a restaurant, I have cash for my share of the bill to toss on the table.)  He is not allowed in my home.  I have zero interest in going to his.

Mostly if we have actual contact (vs. email or text) - it's phone call.  I just say "bye, talk to you later."   I don't; care if he's in the middle of a sentence telling me off for something.  I don't have to allow it.  As for his emails and phone calls - I try to contain my cringe and just delete them.

 

[Carol in Cal.]

7 hours ago, DawnM said:

I have done all of those things.   She is very, very pushy.   When I said I won't be saying what she wants me to say, she screams and yells.

And, I have nothing else to talk to her about.   I was a sounding board and trying to help, but we are now over a year in and nothing has changed.   More than a year actually.

Wow, that is so OTT.

I'd be at the 'This is abusive.  Don't ever yell at me again.' point right about then, and the next would be 'Don't ever contact me again.'.

[Shoeless]

If she's screaming and yelling at you, then you don't owe her any more explanation or consideration. It's ok to block her, stop taking her calls, ignore her, and otherwise ghost her. 

Having boundaries is about knowing what your terms are for how you will be treated, and how you will respond when someone steps over the boundary.  It's not necessarily about stating to someone "These are my boundaries, now you will respect them!".  Yes, sometimes you have to lay it out that specifically, (and a reasonable person will immediately start respecting them and apologize for stepping out of line). But it's really more about thinking carefully about what you will and won't put up with from other people. 

I sometimes see people turn "boundaries" into a power struggle, where they are desperately arguing with the offending person to "respect my boundaries!", and get them to understand.  They end up locked in this fight where the offending party not only steps over the boundary but argues about whether it's even valid to have boundaries. 

You might think "But how will they know not to step over a boundary if I don't articulate it?" Well, most reasonable people don't need to have personal boundaries spelled out for them! They figure out where the line is by interacting with people, taking social cues, reading body language, etc. 

You've done all you can with this person. It's ok to stop taking calls and communicating with her.  You don't owe her any more explanation.  She may try to guilt you about it and insist that you owe her something, but you really don't.  

[DawnM]

Thanks guys.

[Katy]

Block her.  If she manages to get through say something like, "At this point I'd be more likely to testify on behalf of your ex than of you. You need to leave me alone."